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10-16-2020, 10:26 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Red Deer, Alberta
Posts: 2,065
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Who’s in the wrong? (F&W vs. Hunter)
Scenario. Who’s in the wrong?
“Hunter” has never taken the hunters Ed course. She has purchased licences annually back to 2008. Someone on Facebook tells her she’s hunting illegally for not having the course. The hunting regs say only a “first time hunter” needs the course and by their own definition she is not a first time hunter, so wouldn’t require it. Hunter calls the Smoky Lake F&W office to inquire, and Mr. Possum Cop tells her to go in person the next day to discuss in person (red flag). She goes in the next day and Tree Cop gives her a $120 ticket for holding/applying for a licence while ineligible. He takes it a step further and voids her purchased 2020 deer tag and freezes her AlbertaRELM account until she passes a hunters Ed course. Who’s in the wrong?
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10-16-2020, 10:30 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,917
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Hunter is in the wrong
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10-16-2020, 10:45 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Whitecourt
Posts: 662
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That's a greasy move.
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10-18-2020, 12:15 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 640
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keeks
That's a greasy move.
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Ultra greasy !! prik
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10-16-2020, 10:58 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: WMU 303
Posts: 8,493
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Quote:
Licensing requirements for first-time hunters
NOTE: all new first-time hunters who have qualified for obtaining recreational hunting licences by successfully completing the Alberta Conservation and Hunter education course, will be required to provide on their WiN profile, their hunter certificate number that is issued to each course graduate, in order to be eligible to purchase a hunting licence.
A first-time hunter is a hunter who 1) has not previously held a hunting licence in Alberta or elsewhere, or 2) has not prior to April 1, 2010, met Alberta first-time hunter criteria, or 3) has not successfully completed a hunter education course in Alberta or elsewhere.
Non-resident and non-resident alien hunters (12 years of age or older) are exempt from the first-time hunter eligibility requirement if they are accompanied by a Hunter Host or a Designated Guide while hunting in Alberta.
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...
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10-16-2020, 11:02 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Cowtown, agian
Posts: 2,815
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If you have to ask.
Just do the course.
__________________
The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.
- Sir Winston Churchill
A body of men holding themselves accountable to nobody ought not to be trusted by anybody.
-Thomas Paine
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10-17-2020, 12:14 AM
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Gone Hunting
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: North of Peace River
Posts: 11,346
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Quote:
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or 2) has not prior to April 1, 2010, met Alberta first-time hunter criteria,
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So, if I was not a first time hunter in 2001, I am considered a first time hunter after April 1 2010?
I thought that was a typo so I looked in up in the regs, it does say that.
__________________
Democracy substitutes election by the incompetent many for appointment by the corrupt few.
George Bernard Shaw
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10-17-2020, 04:58 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Dodge City
Posts: 1,283
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I'd be fighting that one, and what a cheap move by the officer. If she had her first license in 2008 I don't see how they can write her a ticket. If her first license was after april 1, 2010 then maybe it would be a different story.
Iirc it used to be very easy to become an eligible hunter in Alberta if you had someone taking care of your WIN application that didn't care, or didn't know. All you had to do was check the box that you were eligible. They brought in the rule where you absolutely had to have proof of the course to deter people from trying to skip the course.
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10-17-2020, 06:17 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 15,841
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Take them to court.
__________________
“I love it when clients bring Berger bullets. It means I get to kill the bear.”
-Billy Molls
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10-17-2020, 08:42 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: At the end of the Thirsty Beaver Trail, Pinsky lake, Alberta.
Posts: 24,603
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James M
Scenario. Who’s in the wrong?
“Hunter” has never taken the hunters Ed course. She has purchased licences annually back to 2008. Someone on Facebook tells her she’s hunting illegally for not having the course. The hunting regs say only a “first time hunter” needs the course and by their own definition she is not a first time hunter, so wouldn’t require it. Hunter calls the Smoky Lake F&W office to inquire, and Mr. Possum Cop tells her to go in person the next day to discuss in person (red flag). She goes in the next day and Tree Cop gives her a $120 ticket for holding/applying for a licence while ineligible. He takes it a step further and voids her purchased 2020 deer tag and freezes her AlbertaRELM account until she passes a hunters Ed course. Who’s in the wrong?
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Possum cop...tree cop.... 
Your story has nothing valid other than a ignorant story to stir the pot....if you want the answer call F&W office.....
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Be careful when you follow the masses, sometimes the "M" is silent... 
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10-17-2020, 08:45 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Red Deer, Alberta
Posts: 2,065
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 58thecat
Possum cop...tree cop....
Your story has nothing valid other than a ignorant story to stir the pot....if you want the answer call F&W office..... |
Did I melt a snowflake? Quit your whining. Don’t like it, read another thread.
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10-17-2020, 08:56 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: At the end of the Thirsty Beaver Trail, Pinsky lake, Alberta.
Posts: 24,603
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James M
Did I melt a snowflake? Quit your whining. Don’t like it, read another thread.
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Far from it.....your thread lost its value.....one side hates and the other side likes....and your pot stirring thread is how I view it....not whining just pointing out my perspective is all.....
__________________
Be careful when you follow the masses, sometimes the "M" is silent...
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10-17-2020, 12:02 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 379
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I agree no need to Lynch but it seems pretty straight forward when filling out the form that was pre 2010 
Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk
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10-17-2020, 12:45 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: New Beijing, Canada
Posts: 1,470
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jjolg123
I agree no need to Lynch but it seems pretty straight forward when filling out the form that was pre 2010
Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk |
OK - hard to make it out but effectively to be eligible pre-2010 then you needed to not be suspended and
must be one of the following
previously held a license in Alberta or elsewhere
or
passed the first time hunter test
or
have successfully completed a hunter education test in Alberta or elsewhere
or
you are a non-res or non-res alien hunting with a guide.
The first option box offers that to hunt you did not need a course the way I read it. Now after 1 April 2010 perhaps that changed to being mandatory to have a Hunter Ed course?
__________________
#defundtheCBC
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10-17-2020, 01:23 PM
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Gone Hunting
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: North of Peace River
Posts: 11,346
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jjolg123
I agree no need to Lynch but it seems pretty straight forward when filling out the form that was pre 2010
Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk |
You are right, very straight forward. She has no excuse.
It's not possible to misunderstand anything on that form.
Strangely enough, on these threads we frequently get experienced hunters asking about details of the regulations that they do not understand.
But that's different isn't it. They are legally licensed, so they are allowed to not understand ever single aspect of common hunting laws.
http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=389088
__________________
Democracy substitutes election by the incompetent many for appointment by the corrupt few.
George Bernard Shaw
Last edited by KegRiver; 10-17-2020 at 01:49 PM.
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10-17-2020, 01:33 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Parkland County, AB
Posts: 4,257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KegRiver
You are right, very straight forward. She has no excuse.
It's not possible to misunderstand anything on that form.
Strangely enough, on these threads we frequently get experienced hunters asking about details of the regulations that they do not understand.
But that's different isn't it. They are legally licensed, so they are allowed to not understand ever single aspect of common hunting laws.
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I think if she really didn`t understand what was indicated on that form, that would have been the time to ask for an interpretation on Facebook .
__________________
When applied by competent people with the right intent, common sense goes a long way.
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10-17-2020, 01:43 PM
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Gone Hunting
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: North of Peace River
Posts: 11,346
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salavee
I think if she really didn`t understand what was indicated on that form, that would have been the time to ask for an interpretation on Facebook .
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Of course it would have been.
None of us have ever thought we had it right, when we didn't. We always know we made a mistake, when we make it.
http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=389088
Why are you guys grasping at straws to try to lynch this woman.
What's in it for you?
__________________
Democracy substitutes election by the incompetent many for appointment by the corrupt few.
George Bernard Shaw
Last edited by KegRiver; 10-17-2020 at 01:50 PM.
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10-17-2020, 01:51 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Near Edmonton
Posts: 15,049
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You guys also need to learn to read. If she really has been licensed since 2008 then she did not need to take the course to be eligible to buy further hunting licenses, and the truly stupid part, if she had a single hunting license anywhere outside Alberta she is eligible to buy a license here without taking the course even now. You are confusing poorly thought out government regulations with something that actually makes sense.
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10-17-2020, 01:54 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Camrose
Posts: 45,136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KegRiver
You are right, very straight forward. She has no excuse.
It's not possible to misunderstand anything on that form.
Strangely enough, on these threads we frequently get experienced hunters asking about details of the regulations that they do not understand.
But that's different isn't it. They are legally licensed, so they are allowed to not understand ever single aspect of common hunting laws.
http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=389088 |
She claims to have held a license in 2008, which is prior to 2010 . If that is the case she doesn't need an excuse, because she meets the requirements specified on the form in your quote. The only question is to whether there is proof that she held the license in 2008.
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Only accurate guns are interesting.
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10-18-2020, 02:50 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 95
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what's wrong is wrong Now make it right .
Quote:
Originally Posted by James M
Scenario. Who’s in the wrong?
“Hunter” has never taken the hunters Ed course. She has purchased licences annually back to 2008. Someone on Facebook tells her she’s hunting illegally for not having the course. The hunting regs say only a “first time hunter” needs the course and by their own definition she is not a first time hunter, so wouldn’t require it. Hunter calls the Smoky Lake F&W office to inquire, and Mr. Possum Cop tells her to go in person the next day to discuss in person (red flag). She goes in the next day and Tree Cop gives her a $120 ticket for holding/applying for a licence while ineligible. He takes it a step further and voids her purchased 2020 deer tag and freezes her AlbertaRELM account until she passes a hunters Ed course. Who’s in the wrong?
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WOW I bet she wish she never called.
Quote:
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Mr. Possum Cop tells her to go in person the next day to discuss in person
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she drove into see them wow i would of told them to come see me my truck is broke .  She should of waited until after the season to make it right.
Last edited by savageguy model 111; 10-18-2020 at 02:52 PM.
Reason: adding
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10-18-2020, 06:57 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Calgary
Posts: 365
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Seriously,
Ridiculous post , if you haven’t taken hunter safety you shouldn’t be in the field unless your a bystander along to learn . Enough accidents happen with people who have taken it . I have unfortunately witnessed enough stupid things in the field to believe that there should refresher course . When ranchers lose cows and horses to inexperienced and ignorant hunters you have to wonder what is going on . Education and good mentors are the key.
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10-20-2020, 11:14 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James M
Scenario. Who’s in the wrong?
“Hunter” has never taken the hunters Ed course. She has purchased licences annually back to 2008. Someone on Facebook tells her she’s hunting illegally for not having the course. The hunting regs say only a “first time hunter” needs the course and by their own definition she is not a first time hunter, so wouldn’t require it. Hunter calls the Smoky Lake F&W office to inquire, and Mr. Possum Cop tells her to go in person the next day to discuss in person (red flag). She goes in the next day and Tree Cop gives her a $120 ticket for holding/applying for a licence while ineligible. He takes it a step further and voids her purchased 2020 deer tag and freezes her AlbertaRELM account until she passes a hunters Ed course. Who’s in the wrong?
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Would be ironic if she was the one who shot the hunter in the tree stand by Fairview lol.
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10-20-2020, 12:31 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: WMU 402
Posts: 515
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She ****ed up period. Knowing she hadn’t taken to the course. The course is MANDATORY and ALWAYS has been. I know I don’t want people out there who HAVEN’T taken the course. What’s to argue? We ALL want to be safe and the ONLY way to ensure that is by taking the training. As far as I’m concerned people shouldn’t be able to “just take the test” at a sports and leisure show. What a joke that is. Any RESPECTABLE hunter takes the course that takes weeks!!
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10-20-2020, 12:50 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Dreadful Valley
Posts: 14,620
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Tried to find my daughters records of taking the course back in 2008.
AHEIA says that in 2008 they never provided a serial number on your course documents, and surprise they had zero records of my daughter taking the course back then(she did online) so we either find some documents to prove it, or she’s going to have to re do the course.
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There are no absolutes
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10-20-2020, 12:56 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Red Deer, Alberta
Posts: 2,065
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick284
Tried to find my daughters records of taking the course back in 2008.
AHEIA says that in 2008 they never provided a serial number on your course documents, and surprise they had zero records of my daughter taking the course back then(she did online) so we either find some documents to prove it, or she’s going to have to re do the course.
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I think they’re blowing smoke. I never got a card when I took it in 2000 and called them in 2018 to get one. They sent me one dated the wrong year but they had me on file from back then. Maybe just a typo on the certificate.
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10-20-2020, 01:07 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Dreadful Valley
Posts: 14,620
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James M
I think they’re blowing smoke. I never got a card when I took it in 2000 and called them in 2018 to get one. They sent me one dated the wrong year but they had me on file from back then. Maybe just a typo on the certificate.
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Sat on the phone with the gal while she searched every imaginable way, to find the record..... nada.......
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There are no absolutes
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10-20-2020, 12:56 PM
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Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 3,567
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WinefredCommander
She ****ed up period. Knowing she hadn’t taken to the course. The course is MANDATORY and ALWAYS has been. I know I don’t want people out there who HAVEN’T taken the course. What’s to argue? We ALL want to be safe and the ONLY way to ensure that is by taking the training. As far as I’m concerned people shouldn’t be able to “just take the test” at a sports and leisure show. What a joke that is. Any RESPECTABLE hunter takes the course that takes weeks!!
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Completely untrue.
__________________
If the good lord didnt want me to ride a four wheeler with no shirt on, then how come my nipples grow back after every wipeout?
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10-20-2020, 01:36 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Camrose
Posts: 45,136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WinefredCommander
She ****ed up period. Knowing she hadn’t taken to the course. The course is MANDATORY and ALWAYS has been. I know I don’t want people out there who HAVEN’T taken the course. What’s to argue? We ALL want to be safe and the ONLY way to ensure that is by taking the training. As far as I’m concerned people shouldn’t be able to “just take the test” at a sports and leisure show. What a joke that is. Any RESPECTABLE hunter takes the course that takes weeks!!
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ALWAYS? So was the course mandatory in 1960, how about 1940, how about 1920? So why do the regulations even mention having held a license previously in Alberta or elsewhere as an alternative? Some of us held licenses long before the course was mandatory in our home province , so why what would taking the course now accomplish. As far as safety goes, anyone that thinks that a person requires the course to be a safe hunter, is truly naive. If the 14 year old that recently shot another hunter was legally licenced, then he had to have taken the course, and he obviously has no clue about firearm safety.
__________________
Only accurate guns are interesting.
Last edited by elkhunter11; 10-20-2020 at 01:42 PM.
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10-20-2020, 04:13 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,917
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elkhunter11
ALWAYS? So was the course mandatory in 1960, how about 1940, how about 1920? So why do the regulations even mention having held a license previously in Alberta or elsewhere as an alternative? Some of us held licenses long before the course was mandatory in our home province , so why what would taking the course now accomplish. As far as safety goes, anyone that thinks that a person requires the course to be a safe hunter, is truly naive. If the 14 year old that recently shot another hunter was legally licenced, then he had to have taken the course, and he obviously has no clue about firearm safety.
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It became mandatory in the early 80's. Our F&G club at the time all got certified and offered the course twice a year for all the kids wanting to get a licence. There are no records of any of that in existence at AHEIA apparently.
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10-20-2020, 10:24 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Parkland County, AB
Posts: 4,257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FCLightning
It became mandatory in the early 80's. Our F&G club at the time all got certified and offered the course twice a year for all the kids wanting to get a licence. There are no records of any of that in existence at AHEIA apparently.
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AEIHA did not exist at that time (early `80s) Alberta Conservation and Hunter Education Program is what it was known as up until the AHEIA (Alberta Hunter Education Instructors Assn was formed, sometime in the later 90's.
Exactly when did passing the course become mandatory prior to obtaining a first time hunting license in Alberta É
__________________
When applied by competent people with the right intent, common sense goes a long way.
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