Is the Venerable .303 British enough for moose?

[elkdump]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

The simple fact is that if nobody is still chambering a cartridge, and less and less people are shooting that cartridge, then it is dying. Some cartridges take a lot longer to die, but without new rifles being chambered in that cartridge, it is dying, As for the 284 cases, I spent less than five minutes finding three sources that have cases available, so if you spent considerable time searching, then you weren't looking in the right places. My longest search ever for components took me a combined total of over 20 phone calls and e-mails over two days, and that was for 270wsm cases, a cartridge which is still being chambered, and components are still being produced, so it certainly isn't dying, but at the time, demand was greater than the available supply.
All of which does not change the fact that many moose have been killed with the 303 cartridge, and many more moose will be killed with the 303 , before it fades away entirely.

before it fades away entirely ???

I will bet anyone that wishes to wager ? That YOU will fade away long before popular use of the .303 fades away ???? huh ?

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by elkdump

before it fades away entirely ???

I will bet anyone that wishes to wager ? That YOU will fade away long before popular use of the .303 fades away ???? huh ?

Long live the .303 British

[Okotokian]

No, the .303 is not good enough for tough Canadian moose. Any firearms manufacturer will tell you that. You need the latest super magnum opus of not less than .325 caliber from Remington, Winchester, Weatherby.... And don't forget to put money aside for a limbsaver... oh yeah, and a scope worth double what your gun cost.

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

No, the .303 is not good enough for tough Canadian moose. Any firearms manufacturer will tell you that. You need the latest super magnum opus of not less than .325 caliber from Remington, Winchester, Weatherby.... And don't forget to put money aside for a limbsaver... oh yeah, and a scope worth double what your gun cost.

You haven't heard?

Two of the youngsters that you mention might be terminal and fade away even before the .303 British. I do not think the .325 WSM or the 8mm Rem Mag are still offered or still chambered? Yah I know they were fair moose fodder and seem to young to go but it would required a marketing miracle to save them.

[Sooner]

My 81 year old dad will tell anyone he has shot more moose with his open sight 303 British than he has with his 30-06 with a scope. Back in his days of being a new hunter, the 303 was the go to entry gun as he puts it, because it was a good rifle and easy/cheap to buy. 10 shot magazine, a sight that could roll up to 1000 yrds if i remember right. Just had to cut back the wood stock so it wasn't so darn heavy. I shot a ton of rounds out of that rifles at trees and targets from age 12 to 14 when hunting with dad and the uncles. But the bullets were cheap to buy too. We still have the rifle, plus a old 303 Savage that has been in the gun cabinet for 40 yrs.

He tells of a story where he miss judged the distance of an antlered moose out in a swamp. He was on a small rise resting on a tree branch with a clear path. He started the open sight at 400 yrds and kept notching it up after each shot. Finally the moose fell. Story is it was almost to the end of the sight. I have moved that sight to its highest point and aimed to see what it was like, the angle of the rifle is incredible lol. Hail Mary and lucky, maybe, but my uncle was beside him when the moose fell. All the uncles talk of how dad was a crack shot with that rifle and could out shoot the others with scopes and magnums. But as dad put it, most moose he shot were 300 yrds or less, anything farther(other than the one in the swamp that he could not sneak up on) he would try to get closer, whereas my uncles with the magnums, would take the longer shots. I think i need to re live my youth and shoot a box or two out of that 303 with my dad and 18 yr old son this summer.

[300magman]

Like it or not, the newest rage is calibers that are capable of reaching way out beyond most shooters limits, because long range shooting has become so much more popular. Think even 10 years ago, BDC style scopes were almost non-existent, and I hadnt met a soul who talked about shots at 6,7,800+ yards. Now, I dont think there is a scope manufacturer out there that doesnt offer some type of BDC style recital to make guys think they can do it. But, the long range game has grown so much in popularity, that many of the calibers that arent known (or capable) for use in that world are fading out. Manufacturers are building the rifles people want, and with so many guys thinking they can shoot way out there, they are buying guns in an according caliber. Of course, i dont think that its going to be rapid, but if things keep going the way they are, I can forsee a time at some point where the .303 is an obscure caliber. But thats a very long way off i think.

[Bigwoodsman]

I shot my first moose with a .303 British in 1976. 14 years old with my dad who called in a small bull. He handed me the gun and whispered take him. 40 yards broadside quartering away, slight mist in the air, one shot right behind the front leg. We sat their Dad had a smoke, seemed like forever but then started to track the blood. Bull ran about 200 yards and piled up.

Dad over the years took several moose with this rifle as well as deer.

BW

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by 300magman

Like it or not, the newest rage is calibers that are capable of reaching way out beyond most shooters limits, because long range shooting has become so much more popular. Think even 10 years ago, BDC style scopes were almost non-existent, and I hadnt met a soul who talked about shots at 6,7,800+ yards. Now, I dont think there is a scope manufacturer out there that doesnt offer some type of BDC style recital to make guys think they can do it. But, the long range game has grown so much in popularity, that many of the calibers that arent known (or capable) for use in that world are fading out. Manufacturers are building the rifles people want, and with so many guys thinking they can shoot way out there, they are buying guns in an according caliber. Of course, i dont think that its going to be rapid, but if things keep going the way they are, I can forsee a time at some point where the .303 is an obscure caliber. But thats a very long way off i think.

Marketing at it finest !

What was it Stompin Tom said;

another sale on something, we'll buy it while it's hot and save a lot of money spending money we don't got

He could add to that;

There's another sale on something, we'll buy it while it's hot and spend a lot of money buying something we don't need.

But I guess that don't rhyme as well.

[Homesteader]

Originally Posted by chuck

I could never quite see what a 303 would have that a 270 Winchester wouldn't.

Commonwealth Class

[Bushleague]

Originally Posted by Homesteader

Commonwealth Class

IMO the .303's advantage, is as always, the cheap rifles chambered for it on every street corner. In today's market where you are darn near up to a grand to get a well made rifle with a wooden stock, a decent Lee Enfield sporter still represents a heck of a deal. You can easily pick up a fairly nice sporter for less than a Savage axis, and I'll take the SMLE any day of the week.

Another thing to remember... prior to the use of scopes becoming widespread the .270 didn't really offer any real advantage over the .303 British. I know very few people who can make 300 yard shots with iron sights.

[Yukongold]

I will add a comment here which a lot of firearm buffs will probably try and forget. The largest B & C moose ever taken was shot by a Dawson City, Yukon resident 2 years ago. He shot it with a Mark 1V 303 with one shot from a 180 grain SP. The calibre means little- put it where it counts and it's all over.

[Bushleague]

Originally Posted by Yukongold

I will add a comment here which a lot of firearm buffs will probably try and forget. The largest B & C moose ever taken was shot by a Dawson City, Yukon resident 2 years ago. He shot it with a Mark 1V 303 with one shot from a 180 grain SP. The calibre means little- put it where it counts and it's all over.

I heard he gave it 2 shots... but its all the same. Interestingly enough I read in Outdoor Life a few years back that the current Alaskan record moose was killed with a .270 win. Probably the two biggest moose on record and they were both cleanly felled by fairly modest rounds.... put it where it counts!

[Sashi]

World's Record Moose Verified by Boone and Crockett
Monday, January 27, 2014

MISSOULA, Mont. (Jan. 23, 2014)—A bull moose taken by a hunter in 2013 in Yukon Territory was verified today by the Boone and Crockett Club as a new World’s Record.

With a final score of 263-5/8 Boone and Crockett points, the bull has the largest antlers ever recorded for the Alaska-Yukon moose subspecies. The previous record, taken in Alaska in 1994, scores 261-5/8. These are the only two specimens on record to score over 260. The third-largest bull scores 256-6/8.

Since 1906, Boone and Crockett’s trophy data has been used to measure the success of conservation programs across North America. The Club’s scoring system rewards antler and horn size and symmetry—classic symbols of outstanding habitat, strong recruitment of animals into older age classes, sustainable harvest objectives and other elements of sound wildlife management and fair-chase hunting.

“Congratulations to Yukon Territory’s wildlife conservation agency, Environment Yukon, on succeeding in the many factors that go into ensuring healthy populations of moose,” said Eldon L. “Buck” Buckner, VP of Boone and Crockett Club’s Records of North American Big Game Division.

Buckner was a member of a Boone and Crockett Club Special Judges Panel that convened at the Wild Sheep Foundation convention, January 24th, in Reno, Nev., to verify the World’s Record status of this moose.

The new World’s Record moose was taken on a self-guided hunt by Heinz E. Naef of Dawson City, Yukon. He was hunting along the Yukon River near Stewart Island on September 22, 2013. Naef carried a .303 British with open sights and 180-grain Winchester ammunition. The hunter stalked to within 35 yards of the big moose before taking the shot.

Naef was hunting for winter meat, not a trophy. He removed the antlers off the skull with a chainsaw, nicking them in the process, and did not keep the cape for a shoulder mount.

The antlers measure 75-5/8 inches at the greatest spread. The left side has 17 points and a palm measuring 17-5/8 inches wide by 51 inches long. The right antler has 19 points and a palm measuring 23-6/8 inches wide by 50-7/8 inches long. The antler circumferences are 8-4/8 and 8-7/8 inches for the right and left sides, respectively.

[halang_99]

no problem if you can aim you can get a moose

[Big Grey Wolf]

I would bet more moose have been shot in Alberta with 303 than any other caliber. In the 50-80's it was the only gun and shells most of us could afford and available in every hardware store in the province.

[amosfella]

Originally Posted by Dick284

There's been a pile of debate on this subject. And often trying to convince certain folks such as Americano's that you don't need one of Roy's double radii belted magnums, but something more akin to a 308Win or a 280Rem, or gawd forbid a 30'06 is plenty of gitty up for Alces alces.

Maybe they need to see more stuff like this!
https://youtu.be/h8355R0FNDM

Hunting in G bear country could change the choice for sure, but really at spitting distance would a wonder mag be any more effective on a G bear than a 180gr 7.7mm pill doing 2300-2400fps?


And go................

Will the 303 brit do it?? Sure. However, one of my local buddies just bought one, and he's having problems finding a consistant supply of ammo locally...

So, He asked about using my equipment to reload for it. I told him to go for it. Get dies, primers, projectiles, powder, and brass. Finding the projectiles has been a bit of a chore for him. He wants the ones of the weight that follow the sights of his Lee Enfield.

He's not much for internet ordering...

He's thinking that he might have to learn to cast projectiles and paper patch now.

All that being said, before the 303 brit, folks used muskets with balls, paper wrapping, and black powder. at least some of the lead in the ball used to kill that moose had probably been used to kill the last one as well, and the one before that, etc.

Before that, they used double tapered poles of osage orange, yew, or other woods with various materials used as strings for tension, and the pointy sticks that these thing launched to kill moose.

I'm pretty sure that if you got close enough, you could kill a moose with a sledgehammer. (I'm not advising using a sledgehammer to kill a moose...)

[West O'5]

Originally Posted by amosfella

Will the 303 brit do it?? Sure. However, one of my local buddies just bought one, and he's having problems finding a consistant supply of ammo locally...

So, He asked about using my equipment to reload for it. I told him to go for it. Get dies, primers, projectiles, powder, and brass. Finding the projectiles has been a bit of a chore for him. He wants the ones of the weight that follow the sights of his Lee Enfield.

He's not much for internet ordering...

He's thinking that he might have to learn to cast projectiles and paper patch now.

All that being said, before the 303 brit, folks used muskets with balls, paper wrapping, and black powder. at least some of the lead in the ball used to kill that moose had probably been used to kill the last one as well, and the one before that, etc.

Before that, they used double tapered poles of osage orange, yew, or other woods with various materials used as strings for tension, and the pointy sticks that these thing launched to kill moose.

I'm pretty sure that if you got close enough, you could kill a moose with a sledgehammer. (I'm not advising using a sledgehammer to kill a moose...)

This^^
An LE .303 is not enough gun for moose........said nobody ever,lol.Or maybe it's been said,and likely proven wrong 10s of thousands of times over the last hundred years in Canada.
I always just kinda shake my head at the internet armchair experts as debates rage on with claims that you need X amount of ft./lbs kinetic energy to kill a deer,and X much more to kill an elk etc etc.
My only response is how many ft.lbs of energy is delivered at 30 yards by a 350 grain arrow launched at 300fps......and how many deer,elk,and moose have fallen to same.
Put it where it counts.

[Marsha]

Best rifle ever, It is what my grandad taught me to hunt with, still have that rifle after 50 years, still shoots straight...

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Big Grey Wolf

I would bet more moose have been shot in Alberta with 303 than any other caliber. In the 50-80's it was the only gun and shells most of us could afford and available in every hardware store in the province.

And I would bet on the .308" caliber, because it includes the 30-30, 308win, 300 savage, vand various 300magnums including the 300wsm,300win,300wby, etc.

[David Henry]

Go sheep hunting with the 303 nowadays and you would get laughed off the mountain, but here's a true story going back to the 1960's. Alberta guide now long since passed Clarence (Cougar) Long picked up a German client at the Calgary airport and was instructed to drive directly to the Army & Navy store. The hunter spent $10 on a surplus 303 and the whole outfit headed up the Highwood in search of a Bighorn. Clarence was successful in guiding his hunter to a Ram well up in the record books and as a tip the German gave him the $10 303. I was told this story by Leonard Long his son, Len said his dad was so P----d Off at the lack of gratitude for his efforts that he left the 303 beside the gut pile. D.H.

[Bushleague]

Originally Posted by amosfella

Will the 303 brit do it?? Sure. However, one of my local buddies just bought one, and he's having problems finding a consistant supply of ammo locally...

So, He asked about using my equipment to reload for it. I told him to go for it. Get dies, primers, projectiles, powder, and brass. Finding the projectiles has been a bit of a chore for him. He wants the ones of the weight that follow the sights of his Lee Enfield.

He's not much for internet ordering...

He's thinking that he might have to learn to cast projectiles and paper patch now.

All that being said, before the 303 brit, folks used muskets with balls, paper wrapping, and black powder. at least some of the lead in the ball used to kill that moose had probably been used to kill the last one as well, and the one before that, etc.

Before that, they used double tapered poles of osage orange, yew, or other woods with various materials used as strings for tension, and the pointy sticks that these thing launched to kill moose.

I'm pretty sure that if you got close enough, you could kill a moose with a sledgehammer. (I'm not advising using a sledgehammer to kill a moose...)

Having once used a croquet mallet to finish off a mostly dead deer.... I would not recommend using a sledge hammer on a moose.

[gitrdun]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

No, the .303 is not good enough for tough Canadian moose. Any firearms manufacturer will tell you that. You need the latest super magnum opus of not less than .325 caliber from Remington, Winchester, Weatherby.... And don't forget to put money aside for a limbsaver... oh yeah, and a scope worth double what your gun cost.

Don't you get tired of that silly argument? It sure is tiring to hear it over and over again though.

[amosfella]

Originally Posted by Bushleague

Having once used a croquet mallet to finish off a mostly dead deer.... I would not recommend using a sledge hammer on a moose.

Yes, but a croquet mallet is so bushleague...

[gitrdun]

Originally Posted by Bushleague

Having once used a croquet mallet to finish off a mostly dead deer.... I would not recommend using a sledge hammer on a moose.

You pack a croquet mallet when hunting deer? This......I gotta hear!

[West O'5]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

And I would bet on the .308" caliber, because it includes the 30-30, 308win, 300 savage, vand various 300magnums including the 300wsm,300win,300wby, etc.

WHAT!! No love for the most moose killingest .30 cal in the history of Canadian moose killing....the 30-06.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by West O'5

WHAT!! No love for the most moose killingest .30 cal in the history of Canadian moose killing....the 30-06.

The. 308" caliber includes the 30-06.

[Bushleague]

Originally Posted by gitrdun

You pack a croquet mallet when hunting deer? This......I gotta hear!

I was hauling a load of junk to the dump, stopped to tighten some straps, there was a deer lying in the ditch with most of its limbs broken... I didn't feel right leaving him like that.

Technically I used 2 mallets, since I broke the handle off my first one before the job was done. He wasn't very cooperative and there were a few poorly placed whacks, finally I made a well placed whack, then gave him a couple more just to make sure he didn't wake up after I left. It sounds funny now but in reality it wasn't much fun, kinda ruined my day.

People's reaction when I simply tell them that I once took a nice 3x4 buck with a croquette mallet is pretty funny though.

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by Bushleague

It sounds funny now but in reality it wasn't much fun, kinda ruined my day.

I do not imagine that was would be much fun. Sometimes being compassionate involves being a bit violent. I am glad that you came along when you did and I am glad you have a unique story to tell.

[marlin1]

Originally Posted by covey ridge

Seems like those square heads put a significant amount of holes in the heads of British limies with the German Mauser.
What was your point?

we won maybe

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by Bushleague

Having once used a croquet mallet to finish off a mostly dead deer.... I would not recommend using a sledge hammer on a moose.

I can tell you that beyond a shadow of doubt, you can not kill a Moose with a Sledge hammer.

I also know they can charge after getting shot in the hump, and taking a couple of solid blows to the forehead, from a sledgehammer.