Talk to your Biologist RFMA holders

[Thunder Elk Hunter]

One of the first things that a RFMA trapper needs to do is to go talk to the Biologist in his area. This may clear up a lot of headaches that guys have right now. Yes I'm sure there may be one or two of them that might be unreasonable but for the most part this crap has been dropped into there lap as well. Start now and get a good rapport with your Biologist. If you are honestly trapping your line who would know better to what is out there than your self.
I'm sure the Bio's are looking for some guidance on many different aspects of these new regulations as well. Think about some of them that have around 100 or more lines to deal with, each RFMA has different circumstances. How can they properly manage that amount of lines.
They may be able to go over 8 to 10 lines a year, and as we know things change on our lines in some cases year to year.
It is time to be proactive and help your for later on.

Just my 2 cents

TEH

[expedition]

I just talked to the fort McMurray biologist Joanne Stilnik . nice lady and took the time to hear my griping. But I fear she has no say . She was quite surprised at a few things I brought up .

[Thunder Elk Hunter]

Yes Expedition I'm sure she was surprised and that is good she took the time for you. Now if we can hit this on two fronts, ( ATA I hope) and have the majority of the Biologists seeing our points of view. We may just be able turn the tide of having some of this shoved down our throats.

[209x50]

Talk to the president of your local or the director of the ATA for your area. These are the people who will be meeting with the minister is Sept to address the issues. Make sure your voice is heard at that table through the ATA. talking to your local bio will only muddy the water and add to the confusion.

[nube]

I agree Rich it is of little use to try and talk with the Bio's. As stated above the one Bio seems like she didn't even know half the stuff that was being shared with her....

The problem I have right now is it would be nice to know what direction the ATA is taking with this so we even can add suggestions or ideas. I am sure they would talk with me if I called but I also think I would be wasting their time as well. We all have some good ideas and it would be nice to have feedback to different ideas to give to the ATA.

[Thunder Elk Hunter]

Well guys these are the people we will have to deal with in the end, so you can be proactive or reactive its up to you. Proactive with the ATA is great they need your ideas and support. Chances are the ATA will not end up controlling RFMA's, I may be wrong.
Talk to local ATA board member and let them know what you think.
In the end I think it will be the Biologists and maybe F&W officers that will control our future.
That is all I'm going to say on the matter.

[drake]

Originally Posted by Thunder Elk Hunter

Well guys these are the people we will have to deal with in the end, so you can be proactive or reactive its up to you. Proactive with the ATA is great they need your ideas and support. Chances are the ATA will not end up controlling RFMA's, I may be wrong.
Talk to local ATA board member and let them know what you think.
In the end I think it will be the Biologists and maybe F&W officers that will control our future.
That is all I'm going to say on the matter.

Good advice

[Flight01]

Originally Posted by expedition

I just talked to the fort McMurray biologist Joanne Stilnik . nice lady and took the time to hear my griping. But I fear she has no say . She was quite surprised at a few things I brought up .

Do you know if she is actually based here? I'd like to meet her as well. Where abouts would I find her? Heading in soon to renew.

[expedition]

780 743 7200

[pikeslayer22]

Going to meet up with the Bio in my area next week...want to get his take on these changes.

[Flight01]

Originally Posted by expedition

780 743 7200

Thanks.

[sourdough doug]

the biologists will do to trapping as they did to the lakes in AB. May as well turn it all over to the parks dept with their huggers

[nube]

Originally Posted by pikeslayer22

Going to meet up with the Bio in my area next week...want to get his take on these changes.

And how did things go Pikeslayer?
I talked to mine for 45 min.
Sounds like the new changes slipped our premature from what he said. Which still makes me wonder when they were going to invite the ATA in and get their thoughts on things.

We had a pretty good talk. We didn't see eye to eye on a handfull of things but was reasured many times over it would all be fine and they are not going to just start taking lines from people. I would say he was pretty honest about his thoughts and ideas but he is one man in province and things do change.
I still do not have faith in a few things no matter what as it gives Bio's too much power. My view whether right or wrong.

Natives on Native lines will be treated the same. If a line is taken from a Native then it will be left up to the Band to fill in the new SR. Nice to see they will put pressure on Native lines as much as anyone elses.

In the end I still do not agree with some of the changes. My Bio was very good to put up with my questions and could understand my point of view even if he did not see things the same as me.
I would be willing to work with him if needs be.
We will have to see how things go in a few more weeks but I am thinking not much will change and a little late for things if they want this out for the new year.

Anyone else talk to their Biologist?

[pikeslayer22]

Never did meet he was out of the office when I got there. Heading up again next week will be in the area for 3 days...come hell or high water I will meet with him...where is your Bio work out of Nube?

[nube]

Originally Posted by pikeslayer22

Never did meet he was out of the office when I got there. Heading up again next week will be in the area for 3 days...come hell or high water I will meet with him...where is your Bio work out of Nube?

Whitecourt. Nice guy and I am sure he means well but we did not see eye to eye on a few things.

[KegRiver]

The few biologists I've talked to seemed to have little interest in trapping issues and to me that is understandable. They were not trappers and they were hired to follow orders, not give them.

Every last one I talked to had a very specific subject they were researching and as one pointed out to me, the government that hired them were not enthusiastic about them delving into other issues they were not paid to look into.

A couple of them made it clear that in their mind, they know more then anyone else and were not interested in hearing what any mere civilian had to say.

I concluded that it was a waste of time to talk to them. I did however give information about my in field observations to other F&W personnel and even gave animals I thought might be of interest to be passed on to biologists.

I have returned pit tags and done whatever else I could to assist in the gathering of knowledge and I've been promised information as a result of my contributions. No information was ever returned on any of my contributions.
On one occasion I was promised prizes for my grandson for a pit tag he found in a fish but that never materialized at least not from the F&W biology department that made the promises.
I did however get prizes for my grandson when I mentioned this to ACA several years later.
They stepped up to the plate where SRD biologists did not.

You might get lucky and find a biologist that doesn't come with attitude and one that is willing to go outside their mandate. It's worth a try, just don't be disappointed if you run into what I did. There are other ways to gather information and other ways to contribute.

[Big Grey Wolf]

We talked to our Bio last week when we renewed license and provided harvest data. He indicated launched new process to quickly and will wait for meeting with ATA. However when we brought up issues like trapline transfers he dug his heels in and tried to defend new policy. He is one of the 8 Bio,s that came up with new policy, the famous "Fur Committee". It is also interesting the young lady Bio in FT Mac claimed she was surprised by some of issues, She is also a member of Famous 8 Fur group that drafted new policy.
My take is they will pay some lip service to ATA but will stick to 80% of new policy. We trappers need to get our views to ATA to help them fight for our rights.

[nube]

Who did you talk to Big Grey?

[209x50]

Originally Posted by Big Grey Wolf

We talked to our Bio last week when we renewed license and provided harvest data. He indicated launched new process to quickly and will wait for meeting with ATA. However when we brought up issues like trapline transfers he dug his heels in and tried to defend new policy. He is one of the 8 Bio,s that came up with new policy, the famous "Fur Committee". It is also interesting the young lady Bio in FT Mac claimed she was surprised by some of issues, She is also a member of Famous 8 Fur group that drafted new policy.
My take is they will pay some lip service to ATA but will stick to 80% of new policy. We trappers need to get our views to ATA to help them fight for our rights.

Yeah, I too was less than impressed with the bio I talked to. I think we need to start a war chest for the ATA to fight this in the courts on our behalf. With enough money we can drag this out until the frigging NDP are gone and Brian Jean is a trapper. For once we will have a voice.

[nube]

What part of it are you wanting to fight Rich. I had the feeling you were for most of the changes?
To me there are only a few that really bother me a lot.

[209x50]

Originally Posted by nube

What part of it are you wanting to fight Rich. I had the feeling you were for most of the changes?
To me there are only a few that really bother me a lot.

I'm against much of it. Trapline transfers and the fur receipts are chief among my beefs.

[nube]

Ya that is the major thing for me as well. I want the power to hand my line over to whoever I want. If the guy doesn't trap it or is a not following the rules then they can take it from him then.

I also don't like the idea that if I was to die tomorrow my kids can't get it or my wife that doesn't have a licence and may never want to have a license. I would hope they would give her time to sell it but I highly doubt it.

I also asked my Bio last week if I could sign up for a vacant line or to buy another and he said they want to spread the ownership of lines. Meaning I have one already and would be on the bottom of the list for another. If I was retired I would love to run a couple different areas and I can't see why I wouldn't be a good candidate....

The reciept thing I don't get why they would go there? Doesn't make sense.

[uke hunter]

Nube,

My thoughts on the fur receipts are for formal proof to back up your harvest report. I am thinking there may be trappers out there who falsify their fur harvest report to make it look like they are trapping more fur than they actually are....if they are trapping at all. Providing the receipts for furs shipped to NAFA, FHA or dropped off to be tanned provides and auditable basis to verify harvests. Just my thoughts....

[nube]

Possibly but we all know not all fur makes it to market. I have half my marten in my freezer still....
And i sold a bunch privately as well.....
For sure that is one item that can get scratched.
My main issues are a lot like Rich has mentioned but I think we are not going to get any changes on that kind of stuff. They will ram this down our throats and throw us a bone to try and appease us.

[pikeslayer22]

Originally Posted by uke hunter

Nube,

My thoughts on the fur receipts are for formal proof to back up your harvest report. I am thinking there may be trappers out there who falsify their fur harvest report to make it look like they are trapping more fur than they actually are....if they are trapping at all. Providing the receipts for furs shipped to NAFA, FHA or dropped off to be tanned provides and auditable basis to verify harvests. Just my thoughts....

The guys doing this will continue to do so...Buying fur from other guys and selling in there name.

[Big Grey Wolf]

My thoughts are the Transfer of trap line assets is by far the biggest issue. If we cannot pass the line to our son or grandson because he only has 2-3 years of trapping experience then a guy with 5 years can run away with all the cabins, sheds, bridges and trails we have built really upsets me.

[209x50]

Originally Posted by uke hunter

Nube,

My thoughts on the fur receipts are for formal proof to back up your harvest report. I am thinking there may be trappers out there who falsify their fur harvest report to make it look like they are trapping more fur than they actually are....if they are trapping at all. Providing the receipts for furs shipped to NAFA, FHA or dropped off to be tanned provides and auditable basis to verify harvests. Just my thoughts....

Demanding fur receipts allows them to backdoor in a law that has never been passed. We don't have to sell our fur. Also we seldom process and sell or otherwise market all our fur in the same season. So these receipts might have to cover multiple seasons - not a real simplification by any means.
My fur declaration each year is a legal document. When I execute a legal document with my signature I'm legally bound and when that same signature is all i require to borrow money for a home i think it is enough for the goddam GOA. It makes me more than a little hot under the collar to have my word doubted and they are welcome at anytime to come check my fur and freezers but I'll be damned if I'm going to crawling through the office door hat-in-hand to appease the frigging GOA! Sorry this pees me off something fierce.

[209x50]

Originally Posted by Big Grey Wolf

My thoughts are the Transfer of trap line assets is by far the biggest issue. If we cannot pass the line to our son or grandson because he only has 2-3 years of trapping experience then a guy with 5 years can run away with all the cabins, sheds, bridges and trails we have built really upsets me.

Wonder what kind of Pandora's box we open if we will it to someone? Let the GOA take our estate to court? I'm going to ask my lawyer.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by Big Grey Wolf

My thoughts are the Transfer of trap line assets is by far the biggest issue. If we cannot pass the line to our son or grandson because he only has 2-3 years of trapping experience then a guy with 5 years can run away with all the cabins, sheds, bridges and trails we have built really upsets me.

The non-mandatory courses for points comes into play with this scenario. Supporting it happening is absolutely ludicrous without knowing how the scoring system works. If your kids are Juniors on your line for ten years but don't have the time or money to attend courses, are they going to be beat out by someone that has 2-3 years experience as a Junior but has the time and money to get the courses?

[sourdough doug]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

If your kids are Juniors on your line for ten years but don't have the time or money to attend courses, are they going to be beat out by someone that has 2-3 years experience as a Junior but has the time and money to get the courses?

I don't think we have to be told where this mandatory situation arose....From those who profit from it .....bottom line...and the same ones who have profitted from other areas to do with our traplines and operation of them