Pack Dogs

[packhuntr]

Ive taken a pack dog on backpack hunts in the past. If any issue were to arose with bs legalities, i was surely not concerned and would gladly have met srd in court. All involved would have been leaving afew notches lower with something to think about, lol. Society is too quick to follow shoddy leadership because of what "law" stipulates. Whatever... I hope you guys hit the numbers on this one, good luck boys. This would make world of difference to mtn hunters in the future.

[bdub]

In light of recent events I hope that the use of pack dogs in this province is allowed and thought I would bump this thread. How many people on here have had a dog alert or somehow prevent and unexpected bear encounter in the field because of your dog. I would love to hear it posted. I know a couple fellows in BC who had there bacon saved because of the actions of their dog while sheep hunting. I hope the powers that be can hurry the hell up and change this stupid, unnecessary rule here. Thoughts, comments?

[shooter]

Originally Posted by bdub

In light of recent events I hope that the use of pack dogs in this province is allowed and thought I would bump this thread. How many people on here have had a dog alert or somehow prevent and unexpected bear encounter in the field because of your dog. I would love to hear it posted. I know a couple fellows in BC who had there bacon saved because of the actions of their dog while sheep hunting. I hope the powers that be can hurry the hell up and change this stupid, unnecessary rule here. Thoughts, comments?

I actually sent a letter off to Robin Campbell on this exact topic just a few hours ago. It was recommended as well after emailing a deactivated AO member that it be sent to Laurie Blakeman, Danielle Smith my own MLA as well. The letter I wrote was a spin off of an example provided last year. This is a good time to act united as a group and push for the changes. Thanks to that person for providing the recommendations and link as well.

The emails can be found here...
http://www.assembly.ab.ca/net/index.aspx?p=mla_home

I have no issue posting the letter if others want to copy it and put your own twist send it off as well.


Dear Honourable Robin Campbell:

I have previously written regarding my stance on Pack Dogs, but there has yet to be any progress from what I understand, therefore I am renewing my stance for you on this important matter.

I support the 2011 resolution put forth by the Alberta Fish and Game Association to permit Alberta hunters to be accompanied by pack dogs. I understand these dogs are used strictly for packing and are not permitted to chase, harass, pursue or track game.

In light of the unfortunate events in the Pickle Jar Lakes area this week, the use of pack dogs may have helped prevent this deadly mauling. I believe that a pack dog would have provided both warning and distraction during the attack.

I urge you once again, to expedite this change and not allow it to become further mired down in bureaucracy.


Respectfully,

Shooter
Calgary, AB

[chimpac]

The Indians and Eskimos never were without dogs and them and the dogs were a match for any bear even though they only had spears,bows and arrows.

[Battle Rat]

Originally Posted by packhuntr

Ive taken a pack dog on backpack hunts in the past. If any issue were to arose with bs legalities, i was surely not concerned and would gladly have met srd in court. All involved would have been leaving afew notches lower with something to think about, lol. Society is too quick to follow shoddy leadership because of what "law" stipulates. Whatever... I hope you guys hit the numbers on this one, good luck boys. This would make world of difference to mtn hunters in the future.

Until the dog is tied off and the rifle is loaded I haven't started to hunt.
Stupid rule made by stupid leaders.

[bdub]

Originally Posted by shooter

I actually sent a letter off to Robin Campbell on this exact topic just a few hours ago. It was recommended as well after emailing a deactivated AO member that it be sent to Laurie Blakeman, Danielle Smith my own MLA as well. The letter I wrote was a spin off of an example provided last year. This is a good time to act united as a group and push for the changes. Thanks to that person for providing the recommendations and link as well.

The emails can be found here...
http://www.assembly.ab.ca/net/index.aspx?p=mla_home

I have no issue posting the letter if others want to copy it and put your own twist send it off as well.


Dear Honourable Robin Campbell:

I have previously written regarding my stance on Pack Dogs, but there has yet to be any progress from what I understand, therefore I am renewing my stance for you on this important matter.

I support the 2011 resolution put forth by the Alberta Fish and Game Association to permit Alberta hunters to be accompanied by pack dogs. I understand these dogs are used strictly for packing and are not permitted to chase, harass, pursue or track game.

In light of the unfortunate events in the Pickle Jar Lakes area this week, the use of pack dogs may have helped prevent this deadly mauling. I believe that a pack dog would have provided both warning and distraction during the attack.

I urge you once again, to expedite this change and not allow it to become further mired down in bureaucracy.


Respectfully,

Shooter
Calgary, AB

Thanks for the letter and link. Letter sent as well.

[bdub]

A question for Battle Rat and Pack. Is there any loop hole around this dog thing that you know of. Can you bring a dog to your remote camp for example? How would you argue it if you had to in court?

[Kanonfodder]

Here's is a copy of a letter that is circulating throughout the pack dog community right now. Just thought I'd share as many seem interested in this issue:


It’s ridiculous that pack dogs have not been legalized in Alberta and the most recent incident with Mr. Cross just drove home the reality that things can go wrong out there even for the most experienced mountain hunter. It’s time to let the government know we are fed up. Please share your concerns with the people below and pass this along to other pack dog users. Every letter will make a huge difference:
west.yellowhead@assembly.ab.ca; travis.ripley@gov.ab.ca; minister.energy@gov.ab.ca; draytonvalley.devon@assembly.ab.ca; ron.bjorge@gov.ab.ca; highwood@assembly.ab.ca; calgary.elbow@assembly.ab.ca; Edmonton.Centre@assembly.ab.ca; info@jimprentice.ca

Here is what I recently sent, not authored by me

Dear Honorable Robin Campbell:

It gives me no pleasure to write to you on the occasion of the tragic passing of Mr. Cross and while many of Alberta's hunters could say that they told you so, it brings no pleasure to any of us to do that. As you are well aware, both yourself and former minister McQueen have been provided with reams of anecdotal evidence about the effectiveness of pack dogs in preventing human/bear conflict; especially in the case of solo mountain hunters. Every other mountain jurisdiction in North America permits their use and both you and Mrs McQueen have promised the voters of Alberta that pack dogs will be legalized in Alberta yet absolutely nothing is being done by your staff to move this forward. The Honourable Mrs. McQueen went as far as to call the legalization of pack dogs a no-brainer in the Legislature yet here we sit several years later no closer to it happening. Mr. Prentice has promised us a new Conservative Party and I would hope that would include members of cabinet living up to their word to Albertans.

While no one can say for certainty that a pack dog would have been used by Mr. Cross or that it would have prevented this tragedy, what we do know for absolute certainty is that pack dogs have saved countless hunters from a similar fate in other jurisdictions. I have found no documented cases of hunters being mauled by bears when a pack dog was present but I can list many, including the most recent, where hunters without have been killed. Your most recent letter indicated you are no longer interested in communicating with me about this issue. Perhaps it's time to re-evaluate that position and make it possible for Albertans to increase their public safety as all other North American jurisdictions allow them to do.

When are you and Mrs. McQueen going to live up to your promises to Albertans and allow us to take this step to further increase our safety in the mountains? Tragedies like this can be prevented in the future. You have the ability to prevent tragic events like this. How many more Albertans must die?

Yours respectfully,

K.F. Odder

[shooter]

Way to go guys. Glad to see the support! I don't have a dog at this time but I will certainly help advocate for changes to happen. It gives hope for new choices and possibilities for our future as albertan hunters.

[thegunman]

Thought I'd bump to see what kind of progress was ever made, and if anyone was still trying to move this? I'd be interested.

[Springer]

Curious myself. I sent a letter back when TJ was pushing it forward . Gotta hand it to him he tried adamantly and last I heard was not positive.
Crazy how old school rules are still not able to be changed ..

[3blade]

It is being discussed for the next wildlife regulation. I heard the sticking point was the leash. Guys (including his majesty who no longer graces this forum ) who were pushing for using pack dogs just wouldn't accept it as a requirement, and the rest of us don't want our hunts ruined by other people's pets. I don't have any idea which way it'll go.

[BackPackHunter]

I sent some letters, And started training my new dog.
He's more of a lay around and protect the family then to be running around mountains .
We spent lots of time in the mountains training, but I picked to wrong breed for a mountain dog, he just doesn't have the coat to handle weather.

I was just going to take him anyway, but sheep hunting is hard enough.

[thegunman]

I'd really like to know where we stand. I know everyone has their 2 cents on what they think, and I'm the biggest proponent of well behaved dogs who would stick with their owner. I know I'd like to have my dog pack with me sheep hunting.
If you haven't seen them, check out Dustin Roe's pack dogs, Otis and Sitka. Pretty awesome!

[tatonka2]

There are too many laws in general... I'm in Montana, but I'm sure it's not different in Alberta. A person has to be a "Philadelphia Lawyer" to wade through all of our regulations (especially the fishing regs). We are required to wear Hunter Orange to hunt big game, but are not required to wear it to hunt birds, coyotes, etc. We can use dogs to track a wounded animal, but it has to be on a leash... I can live with that one, but how many people would use a dog to hunt a sheep, elk, etc.? I don't know of anyone.

In Montana we can't shoot at a deer, pheasant, etc. from a road or vehicle, but coyotes are not managed by the Fish and Game Dept., so not only can we shoot at a coyote from a road but we also are not required by law to ask landowner permission to hunt coyotes (although everyone I know certainly does). I never knew this until our local Game Warden told me recently...

A dog used for packing, tracking, etc. should be completely legal... There is no valid reason why one should not be.

[catnthehat]

I am a firm believer that all the negatives surrounding pack dogs and blood trailing dogs exist only in the imagination if some people , not in reality .
I have used both in other places and never saw an issue
Cat

[thegunman]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

I am a firm believer that all the negatives surrounding pack dogs and blood trailing dogs exist only in the imagination if some people , not in reality .
I have used both in other places and never saw an issue
Cat

I feel the same way Cat.
I think it would be a great asset in the field.

[58thecat]

Yup mans best friend.

[700-223]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

I am a firm believer that all the negatives surrounding pack dogs and blood trailing dogs exist only in the imagination if some people , not in reality .
I have used both in other places and never saw an issue
Cat

I'm having a hard time imagining them. Noise from dogs that won't stop barking/baying, harassing non-game animals, making hunting less sporting? If their only being used as packing companion companion animals and/or to follow blood trails when a game animal is grounded I don't see too many downsides.

I would like to see them kept on a lead though, especially if any other hunters are encountered. Have had a lot of dogs over the years and have had enough bad experiences with people who 'had their dog under control' in their own mind though nowhere else. Think the safety angle is likely pretty big. Have always loved working dogs.

What downsides have you seen/heard of cat?

[catnthehat]

I used my sled dogs as pack dogs and other duties when I trapped on a fly in line, no issues.
I have heard the negative things about dogs running around willy nilly scaring game, running away, attacking people, danged near everything a person can think up that doesn't want them.
None of these people I talked to have ever used them.

Using dogs for packing or blood trailing is no different than using them as pointing dogs or flushers, and I have used those a time or two as well.
it comes down to the person using them.

Shoot a duck that drops in the water and expect a dog that doesn't like water to go get it is no different than letting an untrained dog run amuck out in the bush with no purpose if you are not hunting .
Ecollars are a great thing these days for tracking your dog or reinforcing a command to stop or come.
Cat

[700-223]

Should clarify that I meant the safety advantage of hunting with a pack dog is pretty big, especially when hunting solo, not that people having hunting dogs is unsafe.

[silver lab]

Originally Posted by bdub

A question for Battle Rat and Pack. Is there any loop hole around this dog thing that you know of. Can you bring a dog to your remote camp for example? How would you argue it if you had to in court?

Yes. Just buy a game bird licence and take your dog sheep and bird hunting. Do it all the time and talked to F&W while out hunting. As long as I had a reason for the dog it could come. The reason was I was game bird hunting....

[GSPhunter]

Rarely go without mine.

Great hunting companion that finds deer, keeps me company and can pack out her food, water and some backstrap!

I use an ezydog pack, works great.

Also loves ruining my photos!

[catnthehat]

Great photo bomb, I've seen it before I think.
Cat

[thegunman]

Originally Posted by silver lab

Yes. Just buy a game bird licence and take your dog sheep and bird hunting. Do it all the time and talked to F&W while out hunting. As long as I had a reason for the dog it could come. The reason was I was game bird hunting....

ive always wondered the same thing!

[LanceOutriders]

Originally Posted by silver lab

Yes. Just buy a game bird licence and take your dog sheep and bird hunting. Do it all the time and talked to F&W while out hunting. As long as I had a reason for the dog it could come. The reason was I was game bird hunting....

Awesome, thanks. Good to know there is some grey area there, but I can't think of a good reason packing and blood tracking is illegal.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by LanceOutriders

Awesome, thanks. Good to know there is some grey area there, but I can't think of a good reason packing and blood tracking is illegal.

Some places run deer with hounds to hunt them, like Ontario....they are trying to prevent that.

LC

[Slicktricker]

Originally Posted by silver lab

Yes. Just buy a game bird licence and take your dog sheep and bird hunting. Do it all the time and talked to F&W while out hunting. As long as I had a reason for the dog it could come. The reason was I was game bird hunting....

So you admit to taking your dog sheep hunting hey

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

Some places run deer with hounds to hunt them, like Ontario....they are trying to prevent that.

LC

IF correct, this shows an ingrained mistrust of the hunting community by F&W and enforcement.

As proposed, a simple defining of allowed uses of dogs in conjunction with big game hunting should be enough to satisfy this concern. Otherwise, following this logic all of our other activities would also have to be made illegal over the worry some will break a rule.

From my conversations with the government, your offered reasoning is just an excuse made by F&W and enforcement made for the purpose of avoiding the true concern.

There is an underlying desire by the bureaucrats to avoid upsetting and dealing with those in and out of the government that simply hate the idea of dogs and hunting big game. The idea of negotiations with Alberta Parks and responding to an international outcry from anti-hunters, Every Bear Lives Matter advocates in addition to an overflowing workload appears to be enough to keep this matter from moving forward.


A person on the outside might view the snails pace of progress in new hunting policy and regulations as a sign of ineptitude. With our advisory process having been buried unground with multiple layers of secrecy, the bureaucrats seem content now that the public has no way to know just how poorly they are running the show.

The really sad thing is there are Hunting interest group leaders that LOVE the new secret club. It allows them to push their personal agenda while avoiding getting "speared" by scrutiny of their false public positions.

[dantheman93]

not being able to take your dog hunting when humans and dogs have been hunting partners since the beginning of time makes no sense to me. if one dog saves one humans life than it was all worth it. i hunt very remote deep north alberta alone. so i take my dog considering there is 100x more bears there than everything else combined. is that really a bad thing?

let me paint it clearly for the Greenpeace folk who typically don't comprehend logic anyways...

I'm not willing to die just to follow a law. end of story