Is baiting bears "fair chase" ? - Page 5

cardiacphil · #**121** 01-30-2009, 04:06 PM

Well this topic went far since I have been out...had to go chrono some more arrows and shoot the ole cardiac in this awesome weather

It is legal go for it, this was a question of is it "fair chase". I guess we will have to look back in out Drury outdoors videos....LOL they are stamped 100% fair chase...LMAO

Hey guys givver and bait, no hair off my hide. I just prefer doing it my way, and some guys on here do it that way too(good on ya for doing it old school).

P.S. GunSlinger thats a nice colorphase bear, just another happy hunter.

Gunslinger, do you guys put on a spot and stalk hunt? or only over barrells? Just curious as the the range of your outfitting?

CP

pogo · #**122** 01-30-2009, 10:10 PM

Baiting is not fair chase. Not even close to the same.

I propose a simple compromise. Ban baiting, but make it mandatory for all bear hunters to chase only when unbathed for at least two weeks, have bacon grease in their armpits, two links of kolbassa on their breathe, two more links over their shoulder and fish oil in their boot leather.

cardiacphil · #**123** 01-30-2009, 10:43 PM

still kinda baiting....lol and thats unfair..only single guys can do that, my wife would kick me right outta bed

...

I am done on this topic

...it just doesn't seem like fair chase to me...It is Baiting..LOL...B-A-I-T-I-N-G...

Same as if it was done for hunting deer...

I am not against baiting them for pictures though...I am all for that...because pictures are cool and harmless!!! and then you can see some big ole bears

Jamie · #**124** 01-30-2009, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pogo

Baiting is not fair chase. Not even close to the same.

I propose a simple compromise. Ban baiting, but make it mandatory for all bear hunters to chase only when unbathed for at least two weeks, have bacon grease in their armpits, two links of kolbassa on their breathe, two more links over their shoulder and fish oil in their boot leather.

Pogo, that’s your opinion. Thank god the Gov doesn’t listen to you or B/C or P/Y or the Smoke pole guys.

Why be so negative towards it.. How does it effect you?

Jamie

cardiacphil · #**125** 01-30-2009, 11:48 PM

I think that in some cases for bear baiting its ok...Now for example WHO CARES if its ethical...

Our outfitters need it to be legal, they need it to look sporting and challenging, or else there wont be as much tourist dollars spent on it, and lord knows canada needs the cash...did anyone see the BUY AMERICAN THING ON CBC...they wanna focus on their economy and screw ours...LMFAO...bummer for us!!

Bait bears for money, bait deer for food...Bait your brains out Givver.

I think it isn't fair chase thats my stand point...but with things the way they are now...Whatever...Lets tell everyone its the hardest most challenging way to hunt bears thats why the success rates are that high...

Thats IMHO...

CP

Jamie · #**126** 01-30-2009, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cardiacphil

I think that in some cases for bear baiting its ok...Now for example WHO CARES if its ethical...

Our outfitters need it to be legal, they need it to look sporting and challenging, or else there wont be as much tourist dollars spent on it, and lord knows canada needs the cash...did anyone see the BUY AMERICAN THING ON CBC...they wanna focus on their economy and screw ours...LMFAO...bummer for us!!

Bait bears for money, bait deer for food...Bait your brains out Givver.

I think it isn't fair chase thats my stand point...but with things the way they are now...Whatever...Lets tell everyone its the hardest most challenging way to hunt bears thats why the success rates are that high...

Thats IMHO...

CP

Cardiac. Give me a break.. Bear hunting is basicly a slam dunk where ever you go in northern Alberta.

Give me one night north of Vallyview (Spring or fall) and we will fill both of your tags.
BB hunting is not much of a challenge unless you are looking for something specific.
And yes we can do this with a Bow. All my bears were taken with rifles under 30 yards.
This isnt rocket science.

Baiting is not all about guides, there are plenty of folks who do it for the enjoyment.
Jamie

NCC · #**127** 01-31-2009, 12:00 AM

Anything that gets more people involved in hunting is good for the sport. We've had non hunters come sit in a stand over a bear bait and then they get interested in the sport because of the number of bears they see and close encounters. Take the same guy out on his first trip, lead him around the bush for a weekend without seeing anything and he'll probably never hunt again.

I've baiting for about 10 years and never shot a bear from a stand. I probably never well but I look forward to putting the baits out every spring and getting people into the stand, especially those who live in areas where they will never see a bear.

I was worried about habituating the bears to humans but although I have several bears hitting a bait 1.5 miles from my house, I've never had a bear in the yard.

cardiacphil · #**128** 01-31-2009, 12:06 AM

I know jamie...I love spot and stalk with a bow...Its awesome..IMO best way to hunt bears...LOL

I am just saying that I am not All up in arms against baiting due to the economic hardships ahead...LOL
I dont think its FAIR CHASE as stated in my other posts on this topic but...I dont make the rules...LOL

check this out its about the states providing economic stimulus to only those buying american goods ROTFL...BUMMER 4 us I guess...

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/cbc/09012...uy_american_12

SeniorCoot · #**129** 01-31-2009, 07:44 AM

And thus I suppose those with ethics that do not allow them to bait bears- don't bait deer nor plant food plots for turkeys or deer- fish with an unbaited(pun) hook- and hunt dux without dekes or calls- yea Right!

209x50 · #**130** 01-31-2009, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeniorCoot

And thus I suppose those with ethics that do not allow them to bait bears- don't bait deer nor plant food plots for turkeys or deer- fish with an unbaited(pun) hook- and hunt dux without dekes or calls- yea Right!

Nor hunt bears on green pipelines, roadway or leases or any big game animal on or around any farmers crop. It gets pretty hard to draw a line when defining baiting, just about everything the anti baiters use to find and spot and stalk bear are man made - not naturally occurring and could also fall under the description of baiting.

Copidosoma · #**131** 01-31-2009, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamie

Cop..
Don’t you get tired of being told what you can do, and what you cant do?

Sort of. However I'm intelligent enough to realize that cultures change and societies change and laws change and the way that they change is through discussion. Apparently you would prefer to live in a world where everything is done the way it has always been done and nobody ever questions why we do what we do. It is written on some paper somewhere so it is absolute truth. Enjoy, that sounds pretty lame to me. I'm not a huge fan of excessive laws but anarchy sucks too. You want to be part of society and reap the benefits of that you have to submit to some rules. Those rules are best developed through discussion, not blind faith.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamie

I say leave the hunting laws to within reason and let the individual hunter decide what he/she likes to do.

Individuals can do whatever they want as long as it is legal. But don't try to tell me to never question what is legal (see above). What is reasonable? Do we go by the standard of the bear hunter? The PETA activist? The uneducated masses? Or do we leave it up to the politicians? I'm a little sick of the "if it is legal we shouldn't question it" attitude that is so embedded around here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamie

I see NO usefulness in discussing weather or nor Baiting bears is "Fair" chase. Of course its fair, its OUTDOORS, its not behind a fence and it serves a purpose.

Fine, keep your opinion to yourself. I do think it is a useful exercise.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamie

Just the ability to get a good look and see if there are cubs around is enough in my books.

I almost pulled the string on a large bear last fall. I looked, and I looked and I looked and I couldn’t see any cubs. I would guess I spent at least 15 minutes watching that bear.
Just as I was about to crack her, two little ears popped out of the bush. I mean I was on the trigger and starting to pull. It was that close.
I must tell you, it scared the crap out of me thinking about what the consequences could have been.

Even a spot and stalk hunter can take care to see if there are cubs around. You got lucky that time. What if the cubs showed up a few seconds later or you let go a few seconds earlier? Your situation was fortunate but doesn't really mean much. Should there be a minimum amount of time one must wait before shooting a bear at bait? Or is it just a matter of luck? And heck, if you killed the mom and the cubs starved you would just be helping "manage the bear population" in the area. Isn't that a big goal here? Don't get all emotional about it and have the strings start playing as you tear up knowing that your massive amount of concern and care saved the lives of these cubs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamie

Once again.. If you dont like it.. DONT DO IT. And while your at it, don’t slag others for doing what is legal, moral and ethical to them.

I don't do it. And I won't do it. I don't remember slagging anyone here. I don't have much respect for the activity (legal or not) but that is my right. You can't make me like you or baiting in general just because it is legal. There are lots of things that are legal that I happen to find quite distasteful and I won't go out of my way to support people who participate in those activities. When a discussion comes up I will voice my opinion (because I can) and I might even hope that in the process I can convince enough people that I have a valid point that something changes. Or I might just be ignored and I will go on with my life not respecting people who do things I don't like. Or maybe my point of view will change. Who knows? I'm open minded enough to change my mind if presented with compelling and logical arguments.

There are people around here who get their panties in a knot any time someone happens to make a statement that calls into question some aspect of a particular activity they participate in. It really is pretty lame. If you can't defend what you do with anything better than, "it is legal now stop questioning it" then you are going to come off as a pretty simplistic and thoughtless person.

Note: this last rant isn't directed at anyone in particular. It is against an attitude that is quite prevalent around here.

Cheers.

hunter4life · #**132** 01-31-2009, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by High_N_Wide

I understand people that think baiting is easier, and for the shot you are right but you are not thinking about the whole job. I do it for more than just shooting bears, close encounters, selective shots and video. I have been baiting for the last 5 years or so, have shot one bear. But have had many close encounters (4'-8'), and had a cougar actually come in to about 12 yards a couple years ago. This is stuff on a spot and stalk you will not see.

I travels 4.5hours 3 times a week for about 3-4 weeks every spring, that is just to get to my baits, does not include time or money to collect bait and also put it out. Also there is some scouting time in there. The whole event of baiting is one of the hardest or should I say most involved hunts you can do. Deer, moose, elk, or even spot and stalk, you can throw the rifle in the truck and go for a drive.

Fair chase, for sure! If anything it is more work for the hunter!

I'm gonna have to agree with you about the close encounters and the unique experience, but would I do it? No. But I would be more then happy to sit above a bait stand for the day or to tag along with someone hunting a bait stand. And yes it may be legal here so you cant really say it isn't fair, but then again in some of the states it's legal to hunt deer beside a corn feeder, I couldn't do it, kinda takes the "hunt" part out of a hunt, like hunting a bison ranch. But thats just one guys opinion.

cardiacphil · #**133** 01-31-2009, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 209x50

Nor hunt bears on green pipelines, roadway or leases or any big game animal on or around any farmers crop. It gets pretty hard to draw a line when defining baiting, just about everything the anti baiters use to find and spot and stalk bear are man made - not naturally occurring and could also fall under the description of baiting.

209x50 I would tottally agree except I didn't landscape that pipeline, I didn't make those leases!I didn't farm those farmers fields! I am dealing with the hand I am dealt, and stalking my prey.... Thats a damn far sight off Sitting over a Pile Of !!!!!!!!!!!!!BAIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

you make us sound like we are going out and hunting over bait ourselves...I think that what we are doing is by far the lesser of two evils

But think about what you said...about hunting over green cutlines and that....amke it sound pretty bad dontcha...

CP

huntinggr81 · #**134** 01-31-2009, 12:53 PM

Cardiacphil...you are what I would call an internet hunter...an expert one at that...congrats! What would we do without your hunting expertise!

Copidosoma · #**135** 01-31-2009, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by huntinggr81

Cardiacphil...you are what I would call an internet hunter...an expert one at that...congrats! What would we do without your hunting expertise!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominum

mountainmike · #**136** 01-31-2009, 02:09 PM

[QUOTE=cardiacphil;256856]

I am done on this topic

......QUOTE]

DOUBT IT.........done, yet you just keep ranting on n on n on........Maybe you might want to think about changing your handle to "THE ENERGIZER BUNNY"

CAUSE JUST LIKE BELOW.....YOU KEEP GOING N GOING N GOING...........

Phil how bout you let some others give their opinion????? WE HEARD YOURS OVER n OVER n OVER...........kinda getting OLD!!! We get it, your'e not for it, good for you. You need to move on to a new topic..........
Hows the new arrows work for ya?????

Just my opinion, which i'm positive most don't give a rats *****.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cardiacphil

I think that in some cases for bear baiting its ok...Now for example WHO CARES if its ethical...

Our outfitters need it to be legal, they need it to look sporting and challenging, or else there wont be as much tourist dollars spent on it, and lord knows canada needs the cash...did anyone see the BUY AMERICAN THING ON CBC...they wanna focus on their economy and screw ours...LMFAO...bummer for us!!

Bait bears for money, bait deer for food...Bait your brains out Givver.

I think it isn't fair chase thats my stand point...but with things the way they are now...Whatever...Lets tell everyone its the hardest most challenging way to hunt bears thats why the success rates are that high...

Thats IMHO...

CP

Quote:

Originally Posted by cardiacphil

I know jamie...I love spot and stalk with a bow...Its awesome..IMO best way to hunt bears...LOL

I am just saying that I am not All up in arms against baiting due to the economic hardships ahead...LOL
I dont think its FAIR CHASE as stated in my other posts on this topic but...I dont make the rules...LOL

check this out its about the states providing economic stimulus to only those buying american goods ROTFL...BUMMER 4 us I guess...

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/cbc/09012...uy_american_12

Quote:

Originally Posted by cardiacphil

209x50 I would tottally agree except I didn't landscape that pipeline, I didn't make those leases!I didn't farm those farmers fields! I am dealing with the hand I am dealt, and stalking my prey.... Thats a damn far sight off Sitting over a Pile Of !!!!!!!!!!!!!BAIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

you make us sound like we are going out and hunting over bait ourselves...I think that what we are doing is by far the lesser of two evils

But think about what you said...about hunting over green cutlines and that....amke it sound pretty bad dontcha...

CP

MM

209x50 · #**137** 01-31-2009, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cardiacphil

you make us sound like we are going out and hunting over bait ourselves...I think that what we are doing is by far the lesser of two evils

CP

So you think hunting evil? That explains your attitude completely...

cardiacphil · #**138** 01-31-2009, 02:38 PM

LMAO...the lesser of the two evils refers to baiting...LMAO...wow

you guys are just too on the ball for me

Yeah I guess I am an "internet hunter"...LOL...Like I said in all my posts...not fair chase guys...sorry you disagree...

An ad hominem argument, also known as argumentum ad hominem (Latin: "argument to the man", "argument against the man") consists of replying to an argument or factual claim by attacking or appealing to a characteristic or belief of the source making the argument or claim, rather than by addressing the substance of the argument or producing evidence against the claim. The process of proving or disproving the claim is thereby subverted, and the argumentum ad hominem works to change the subject.

this is from that link

...sounds alot like you guys diverting from this topic...

have a good day fellas...
haha

CP

mountainmike · #**139** 01-31-2009, 03:16 PM

n goin n goin n goin

you'll hit the 200 post in no time......so relax it doesn't need to be this weekend

cardiacphil · #**140** 01-31-2009, 03:27 PM

Lol...

huntinstuff · #**141** 01-31-2009, 06:18 PM

I like baiting bears. It allows me to view many different bears, check on color phases and size.

It is rare nowadays for me to take a bear, but I still enjoy baiting them.

I get some great pictures and if "King Kong" shows up, I have a tag.

So far, King Kong is elsewhere ......

dandoun · #**142** 03-21-2009, 04:18 AM

thats crazy...I fully agree with u man. I also do it for the same reasons and its the first time I hear someone that does for the thrill of encountering a bear few yards away.
Have a great season
Regards