To many hunters with the heads in the sand

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by slickwilly

This episode of the meateater podcast sheds some light on the topic of public perception about hunting, and it isn't all gloom and doom:

http://www.themeateater.com/podcasts...eg-blascovich/

Short summary:

About 10% of the population hunts. About 10% of the population is morally opposed to hunting. The middle 80% mostly looks favorably on hunting. However, they look more favorably on some types of hunting then others.

Personally, I think it is time that we hunters stop worrying about being under attack from the 10% that hates hunting (the type that put out the ad in the Edmonton Journal), and start worrying about what the middle group thinks. They are the ones that one day may have to vote on an issue that will seriously affect us hunters.

Hunters skew rural. As a result, I think many hunters feel under attack as the population shifts to being more urban. As a hunter who was born rural, and is now urban, all I can tell you is that in all my time in the city, and at university, even among the real lefties (vegans, environmentalists, hippies included) very few people are opposed to hunting. If anything, these groups tend to be very interested in nature and connecting with nature. If I was made czar of hunting public relations tomorrow, my number one focus would be promoting the connection between hunting and experiencing the natural world, because I know that whenever I mention hunting to people that I am sure the average forum member would consider the enemy, they might say that they wouldn't do it themselves, but they like the idea of a person going out and getting their own meat.

Exactly, under attack, spew away, breath and relax as things change, populations grow and spread out into areas once hunted and fished, laws come into affect so that the 80% won't kick the crap out of the land...there is lots of land to hunt and fish just pull out a map and go adventure off into the wilderness instead of worrying what the mere 10% is saying...they will always be there. If joining a group is your cup of tea make sure it is not one that sits around picking fights rather one that gets out there and impacts the environment positively.

[HIGHLANDER HUNTING]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

Exactly, under attack, spew away, breath and relax as things change, populations grow and spread out into areas once hunted and fished, laws come into affect so that the 80% won't kick the crap out of the land...there is lots of land to hunt and fish just pull out a map and go adventure off into the wilderness instead of worrying what the mere 10% is saying...they will always be there. If joining a group is your cup of tea make sure it is not one that sits around picking fights rather one that gets out there and impacts the environment positively.

That's well said.

[HIGHLANDER HUNTING]

I think as Albertans we have it pretty good. Some places might do a better job, certainly our system and bureaucracy isn't perfect, but over all hunting opportunity is good.

As for conservation groups having an agenda:
We had the good fortune to have had an opportunity to speak to Randy Newberg a couple weeks ago, for our podcast, and we talked to him about this.
His comment as I recall it was to the effect of- You can't agree with 100% of pretty much any group out there. But are they moving the ball in the right direction overall? If yes, he supports them. And by support he meant with donation dollars and appearances.

I thought that was a very pragmatic way of deciding which groups to support.

[MugEye]

https://www.facebook.com/SteveEcklun...79647265966154

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by MugEye

https://www.facebook.com/SteveEcklun...79647265966154

Fight or flight. I agree with Steve on the fight part as long as it doesn't turn in to a stupid brawl. The underdogs will lose that one.
I also stand with those who suggested we start by cleaning up our own act regarding posting those not too cool pics & vids on public media. We can continue to fan the flames or let them cool off. It looks like a rough road ahead with some tough decisions to be made by both individuals and the hunting fraternity as a whole. One thing for sure- the antis are in this for the long haul and this isn't all about Alberta. We have to get well organized .. one way or another.

[gitrdun]

Real sad to say for my part as I once was an avid hunter. But given partially as what atrocities I've seen afield, I've given up. I no longer wish to be a part of this community. I now delegate my time with rifles to target shooting.

[Ranch11]

Originally Posted by MugEye

As for putting classes . Can anyone do it ? Don’t need to be a CO or a Teacher

I volunteered my time. Brought in furs, traps, taxidermy, books, magazines all kinds of stuff. These kids eyeballs were open wide throughout the whole time. The older kids really wanted to know more about trophy hunting, so we scored some horns and put up picks for them to guess the score. I spoke with my kid's teacher and they said excellent idea. It was a ton of fun.

[Salavee]

Good on you ! Nothing like getting those young uncluttered minds absorbing the all the good stuff the outdoors has to offer. That's where it starts.

[elk09]

FYI there is a TV show/documentary on trophy hunting on CNN tonight at 7pm

[ditch donkey]

Originally Posted by nube

Well what I have done is finally come to the realization that this province is doomed no matter what happens in my lifetime at least. I've just concluded I will enjoy what I can when I can and have looked to the USA for some things I can't do here as often.
Bios in this province are either dumb as nails or have no muscle anyways so they are useless.
Gov't is messed up in their thinking and choices.
One group wants to make parks with no ATV allowed and the others have their own thoughts on what they want.....

You and I will not win to get what we want. Heck, u and I probably don't even think the same lol

This province could be amazing in so many ways but ........

You’re right Nube. Sadly.

We have too many groups looking after their own specific interests. I was in Texas this spring, we had a very long layover, so we went golfing. I met a older fellow and when I questioned him on some of texas’s Hunting laws and opportunities he scoffed at me and said, “this is Texas, you can do wherever the hell you want!”

If the tables were turned the answer would likely be something like, “this is Alberta, you can do whatever the hell l want!”

We don’t have a culture of hunting in Canada. We have a history of it. There are modern progressive countries in this world, New Zealand, US, European countries with a strong modern hunting culture. We in Canada are constantly defending our selves. And hoping the immigrants don’t take an interest in hunting as that would add to our draw wait times!

[Bushrat]

Originally Posted by ditch donkey

“this is Texas, you can do wherever the hell you want!”

Except go hunting unless you pay someone big dollars to let you hunt on their land or you happen to own some very expensive hunting land. No thanks I'll stay in Canada.

[Joe Black]

For now,,,,

[ditch donkey]

Originally Posted by Bushrat

Except go hunting unless you pay someone big dollars to let you hunt on their land or you happen to own some very expensive hunting land. No thanks I'll stay in Canada.

You don’t see that coming to Alberta?

Closure of access, reduced access, we’re taking the long way there, but we’re going there. Hopefully hunting remains socially acceptable when some of us have invested large amounts of money in land for the purpose of hunting.

[possum]

Originally Posted by ditch donkey

You don’t see that coming to Alberta?

Closure of access, reduced access, we’re taking the long way there, but we’re going there. Hopefully hunting remains socially acceptable when some of us have invested large amounts of money in land for the purpose of hunting.

I personally wouldn't worry about what is socially acceptable If I'm hunting on my own land. Society can go F themselves. I'm on PRIVATE PROPERTY what they think don't matter.

[ditch donkey]

Originally Posted by possum

I personally wouldn't worry about what is socially acceptable If I'm hunting on my own land. Society can go F themselves. I'm on PRIVATE PROPERTY what they think don't matter.

I understand what you’re saying, and I agree with you. But ideally I’d like to go about my activities without committing crimes related to weapons.

[Knotter]

... if a hunter were to publish an article in a newspaper about hunting and why they do it he would receive an avalanche of death threats within a day. time for the old boys clubs (pretty much all of them) to step up and get a message together.

how hard would it be to get the clubs to meet and put some funds together for a counter ad?

[densa44]

There have been lots of changes since 1950. CWD has reduced the number of people hunting deer, to duck hunt you need a trained dog, and lots of young people due to their life styles can't own a dog. Everyone doen't like the taste of wild game.

The people who know how to hunt birds and big game are now in short supply.

I think that there are fewer young people and there are more demands on their time. I know for my own kid once he started playing hockey that was it for duck hunting. Although he has a very good dog, now 2, he hunts pheasants alot.

I think the comments are concentrating too much n the negative voices out there, they will always be there. What can we do to interest young people. Sns2 has a fine young son who hunts, and the big attraction for him was a dog. Not a bad way to go.

There have been changes in our society and they have taken away the time available to young people. It used to be the young hunted with the old, more experienced hunters, now many of the old are gone. Hunting is very hard to learn on your own.

[Knotter]

There are 130000 hunters in Alberta. We're not an irrelevant part of the population but a declining one compared to the overall. Any hunting we lose is likely gone forever.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by densa44

There have been lots of changes since 1950. CWD has reduced the number of people hunting deer, to duck hunt you need a trained dog, and lots of young people due to their life styles can't own a dog. Everyone doen't like the taste of wild game.

You do.....since when?

For Mugeye......Volunteers are needed in F&W groups in order to get activities organized. If horn scoring is the only activity in yours it likely only occurs because someone volunteered to organize it. I'm sure that no one would oppose you organizing a kids fishing day or similar activity.

I don't understand the doom and gloom surrounding hunting, fishing and trapping in Alberta. Maybe one day we won't be able to hunt 8 whitetail deer legally like we do today but all of those activities will exist in Canada hundreds of years from now. I've lived in Germany that has existed forever and only has a very small percentage of wilderness in comparison to Canada and it still exists there. We are 150 years old with vast swaths of forest and you think that hunting, fishing and trapping is going to come to an end very soon. I think that you're buying into the fear mongering just a little bit.

WRT to Outdoors associations that represent us......All of them have their own agenda and you chose the association based on their agenda. If you want more catch and release "quality" bodies of water that are closed to fishing in the winter, join TU. If you only care about more opportunity for bow hunting with conventional archery equipment, then join the ABA. If you want more mandatory trapper training courses, then join the ATA. If that fits with your beliefs then join them. Personally, I won't support an association if I don't agree with their agenda but I have no interest in the social aspect of them.

IMO in some instances these special interest associations can be harmful to outdoors activities and the closest fit for me would be the AFGA that has the interests of all outdoors men in mind. Even then, when your chapter President doesn't have to bring forward the concerns of the membership if he doesn't want to, there are issues with it as well.

[Athabasca1]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

You do.....since when?



WRT to Outdoors associations that represent us......All of them have their own agenda and you chose the association based on their agenda. If you want more catch and release "quality" bodies of water that are closed to fishing in the winter, join TU. If you only care about more opportunity for bow hunting with conventional archery equipment, then join the ABA. If you want more mandatory trapper training courses, then join the ATA. If that fits with your beliefs then join them. Personally, I won't support an association if I don't agree with their agenda but I have no interest in the social aspect of them.

IMO in some instances these special interest associations can be harmful to outdoors activities and the closest fit for me would be the AFGA that has the interests of all outdoors men in mind. Even then, when your chapter President doesn't have to bring forward the concerns of the membership if he doesn't want to, there are issues with it as well.

This is likely the only answer. All hunters, fishermen and trappers must stand united. The different organizations need to be united as well or we all lose.

[Bushrat]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

I don't understand the doom and gloom surrounding hunting, fishing and trapping in Alberta. Maybe one day we won't be able to hunt 8 whitetail deer legally like we do today but all of those activities will exist in Canada hundreds of years from now. I've lived in Germany that has existed forever and only has a very small percentage of wilderness in comparison to Canada and it still exists there. We are 150 years old with vast swaths of forest and you think that hunting, fishing and trapping is going to come to an end very soon. I think that you're buying into the fear mongering just a little bit.

Hunting has been around for eons everywhere as long as there was a place to do it. It has only been the last 50 years that it has become emotionally and politically incorrect by an ever growing portion of society. In Germany and most of Europe it has been mostly a sport of royalty, the wealthy and the connected for centuries. Same in Africa where in 150 years it has gone from natives hunting and living off the land to a commercial business where most of the hunting is only available to those with deep pockets. It is starting here with the ambitions of some to charge access fees for hunting. It is the first step in the change from public hunting being available to everyone to it evolving into a sport of the well to do. Hunting as we know it will be around in Canada for quite a while, but it is changing, demographics are changing, public perception is changing, land use is changing, it will become more and more a commodity regulated as outside commercial interests, anti hunting, environmental and preservation interests meddle more and more in the politics of game management. In 50 or 100 years if some of us are still alive there will still be management of wildlife, it will still be necessary but it won't be recognizable in comparison to what we are used to seeing in the past and today. Change is slow but it has already left the garage and is well on its way.

[HunterDave]

Bushrat......Yes, I agree that there are people in Alberta that would like to make outdoor activities a rich man’s game. They aren’t the antis though, they are the greedy individuals looking to profit from it.

I have three German Brother in Laws that fish in Germany. In order just to get their fishing license they had to attend a fishing course over several weekends that cost them a significant amount of money. Then, if they want to fish for carp in the local gravel quarry they have to grease the palms of the local F&G club. They aren’t necessarily well off but they have to have a bit of time and disposable income just to fish there.

Hunting is similar and you have to pay all kinds of crazy fees for access, killing fee if successful and a trophy fee if you want the antlers, tusks or horns. It’s definitely a rich man’s game. I passed on canned hunting when I was there.

Can it happen in Alberta? It already is happening and it it can, if we let it. It’ll be a very sad day when only people that have a significant amount of disposable income can legally hunt, fish and trap. Shutting out the people that NEED to hunt, fish and trap to survive turns the activity into a pastime/hobby. It plays right into the hands of antis making it easier for them to convince people that they aren’t required activities.

[play.soccer]

One user on here suggested the elk island elk cull go to the highest bidder and told everyone to take out a $10,000 line of credit for the hunt. With that logic who needs antis.

[bobalong]

Originally Posted by densa44

There have been lots of changes since 1950. CWD has reduced the number of people hunting deer, to duck hunt you need a trained dog, and lots of young people due to their life styles can't own a dog. Everyone doen't like the taste of wild game.

The people who know how to hunt birds and big game are now in short supply.

I think that there are fewer young people and there are more demands on their time. I know for my own kid once he started playing hockey that was it for duck hunting. Although he has a very good dog, now 2, he hunts pheasants alot.

I think the comments are concentrating too much n the negative voices out there, they will always be there. What can we do to interest young people. Sns2 has a fine young son who hunts, and the big attraction for him was a dog. Not a bad way to go.

There have been changes in our society and they have taken away the time available to young people. It used to be the young hunted with the old, more experienced hunters, now many of the old are gone. Hunting is very hard to learn on your own.

My sons (4) are all grown and although they all participated in school sports they all hunted and fished. Two became passionate with the outdoors and two not as much, it is just the way things are. My Dad never hunted or fished a day in his life but I have been passionate about the outdoor sports for over 50 years now.

Although I enjoyed watching/coaching the boys in school sports I have always enjoyed hunting and fishing more. I enjoy hunting and fishing for many reasons but probably the main one is that they are sports where we participated together, while most others I was just a spectator.

Never had a hunting dog and have hunted ducks/geese for about 45 years now?? You suggested many of the old are gone, I don't see it, my age (61) is about the largest demographic ever in our country. For the past few years I have been taking my grand kids hunting and fishing so for our family the hunting and fishing passion has continued.

[nube]

Originally Posted by Bushrat

Except go hunting unless you pay someone big dollars to let you hunt on their land or you happen to own some very expensive hunting land. No thanks I'll stay in Canada.

Big Dollars eh?
Have you spent the time to talk to outfitters in the USA and other places?
It is probably not as costly as you think.
I know a guy who went antelope hunting last year in Wyoming. He paid $250 for his access and had unlimited amount of antelope to look over...... Is that too much?
The place is full of elk as well with 300" plus bulls and can be hunted for the same price. What do you think it costs you to run around Alberta and shoot a 300" plus bull?

[mattthegorby]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

Can it happen in Alberta? It already is happening and it it can, if we let it. It’ll be a very sad day when only people that have a significant amount of disposable income can legally hunt, fish and trap. Shutting out the people that NEED to hunt, fish and trap to survive turns the activity into a pastime/hobby. It plays right into the hands of antis making it easier for them to convince people that they aren’t required activities.

Yup.

Hunting in Alberta is at risk as soon as hunters let the framing of the conversation drift from hunting as a sustainable practice for residents to feed their families to antis framing it as rich tourists killing our wildlife for sport.

Matt

[ramonmark]

Originally Posted by MugEye

Podcasts out there like Randy Newburgh that talk about conservation, and how to unite hunters. We need to do more to put hunting in a positive light in the media. Where I’m from there is an outdoorsman club with their only activity is a horn scoring night, to my knowledge. I am disappointed with that they should be doing more. I was once a member but I am no longer amongst many others. This image does nothing to shed a better light of hunting to the non hunters. What can I do? should I re-join the club and help them open their eyes? I just think there is more to a outdoorsmen club then A horn scoring. I would like Perhaps some camping trips fishing trips, educating our young and new members on wildlife and survival. How would you suggest I go about this? I would love to help but I don’t know what to do and how to do it? Tell me what your small town has for an outdoorsman club and what do they do? What do the big clubs in the city do do they have any tricks? We as outdoorsman need to start becoming a community of outdoorsman and doing things together where we start

The past 4 years I've been taking out new hunters and showing them what I know. We usually end up shooing the chit. I always make a point to talk of conservation, ethics/morals, and even a lot of what I don't know but wish I did. I also build shooting benches, furniture and do other odd jobs to raise money. I then donate the money to ducks unlimited every year. I'm not really a huge 'group person', as I have my own erratic schedule and find it easier to do what I can on my own. Just a few ideas, the sky is your limit.

[Ranch11]

Originally Posted by gitrdun

Real sad to say for my part as I once was an avid hunter. But given partially as what atrocities I've seen afield, I've given up. I no longer wish to be a part of this community. I now delegate my time with rifles to target shooting.

Same here. I don’t care to get out as much anymore. I still enjoy it though, and my kids do as well. But what’s really ****ed me off the last 3 yrs is the length that some hunters go to to ruin hunting for other hunters. When I started hunting 30-35 yrs ago, I remember the neighbours all getting together in the morning and evening to discuss what they saw, where they saw, and how to hunt it. Everybody chipped in.
Now in the last 3 yrs I’ve had 4 cameras stolen, 2 blinds stolen, 2 blinds vandalized, I’ve had other hunters (an outfitter , if you wanna call him a hunter...), sit on edge of fields and flash their lights scaring game and waterfowl out of our set. I’ve been confronted once this fall by a trespasser who thought he owned the land. I left, no use getting into a fistfight or gun fight over a deer.its just sad in my opinion.
Social media bragging sites are ruining hunting.
And anytime you wanna get paid to enjoy the outdoors, that ruins it even worse.
It’s too bad, because hunting, in my opinion, is a pure sport in every sense of the word.

[pikergolf]

Originally Posted by nube

Big Dollars eh?
Have you spent the time to talk to outfitters in the USA and other places?
It is probably not as costly as you think.
I know a guy who went antelope hunting last year in Wyoming. He paid $250 for his access and had unlimited amount of antelope to look over...... Is that too much?
The place is full of elk as well with 300" plus bulls and can be hunted for the same price. What do you think it costs you to run around Alberta and shoot a 300" plus bull?

Sounds like a win, win. You can go pay in the states and leave public hunting to us in Canada.

[nube]

Originally Posted by pikergolf

Sounds like a win, win. You can go pay in the states and leave public hunting to us in Canada.

lol you sure must be a sad man living in your little world!
I'll enjoy my hunting in the USA and in Alberta.
And just so you know you have to pay to play in other parts of Canada as well Pikergolf! But you wouldn't know because I doubt you venture too far from home.