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02-24-2024, 10:11 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: North of Cochrane
Posts: 6,781
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Crowsnest River has run dry?
I'm floating around the south pole right now and I hear from home that the Crowsnest has run dry. I hope that is not true, but I know that it could be.
Lundbreck falls depends on that river not to mention one of the world's best trout streams.
What next?
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"The well meaning have done more damage than all the criminals in the world" Great grand father "Never impute planning where incompetence will predict the phenomenon equally well" Father
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02-24-2024, 11:13 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Fort Sask
Posts: 47
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Don't know about the river, but I'm down on the ice too. You in Macktown, or a tourist?
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02-24-2024, 12:44 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: The Run.
Posts: 84
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Stay frosty.......
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02-24-2024, 01:01 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: South West Alberta
Posts: 844
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Trudeau desires to double the Canadian population in the next 25 years. The UPC is on the same page. Not sustainable at this rate.
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02-24-2024, 09:26 PM
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Moderator
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Wheatland County
Posts: 5,828
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Scary situation.
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If you're not a Liberal when you're young, you have no heart. If you're not a Conservative when you're old, you have no brain. Winston Churchill
All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent. Edmund Burke
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02-25-2024, 10:39 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Edm.
Posts: 5,217
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Not good at all . We need more snow and more rain this year !
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02-25-2024, 04:42 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Beaver Mines AB.
Posts: 883
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Low but not dry.
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02-26-2024, 06:24 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: CNP
Posts: 3,794
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Doesn't look any lower than any other year in February. Most of the water in the Crowsnest river is spring water.
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You are what you do, not what you say.
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02-26-2024, 11:38 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 3,701
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Found this down a rabbit hole
This report may be useful when comparing historical data on the Crowsnest River.
164 pages titled "Crowsnest River watershed aquifer mapping and groundwater management planning study TWPS 006 to 009, RGES 01 to 06 W5 Alberta"
It was submitted to the Oldman Watershed Council in March 2013.
https://static1.squarespace.com/stat...26+Groundwater
__________________
“One of the sad signs of our times is that we have demonized those who produce, subsidized those who refuse to produce, and canonized those who complain.” - Thomas Sowell
“We seem to be getting closer and closer to a situation where nobody is responsible for what they did but we are all responsible for what somebody else did.”- Thomas Sowell
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02-28-2024, 10:01 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: WMU 303
Posts: 8,538
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BS
I'm laughing at this. The Crow is not dry. Not at risk of going dry. The current flow rate measured at Frank is 1.3 cubic metres per second (roughly 15,850 GPM). There is lots of snow in the mountains. Somebody has a gifted imagination.
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02-28-2024, 06:22 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,071
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Unless you have a chinook blow through and some run off that does not go into the air by evaporation, all winter flows will be from springs and the flow from storage areas like beaver dams, irrigation dams and lakes with year round flow.
So for the Crowsnest to go dry is possible.
If ALL Industrial users took their allotment of the water licences downstream from Fort McMurray, the Athabasca River also would go dry.
So lets look at how to fix the problem, which means trying to capture ground water in the recharge areas to feed the springs all winter long.
Pumping ground water out will hurt the water table eventually. After successive drought years, the water table keeps dropping and the springs run dry. 100 foot water wells can be "dusters" requiring drilling to 200 foot to reach water. That is a declining water table.
Back in the late 2000's the St. Paul area received a record 18 inches or rain one summer. The lakes came up in the fall by 1 inch. Why? The ground had been so dry for so long that all the rain was absorbed into the ground, or the connected aquifers to the lake beds had to be recharged to saturation before the lake level could finally rise.
Only after saturation and recharge of the water table was there going to be any over land run off.
So quit ditching the low spots in the land for convenient farming. Encourage water retention and absorption were possible, even if it means drilling recharge wells.
The low spots are natural recharge areas to the aquifers and these are the eventual springs that give the winter flow to the rivers.
A hard lesson to learn, but perhaps the lesson will finally "sink" in with the local planning authorities in the Counties, and the towns that rely on the water.
But to prove the point, the San Juaquin Valley in California has SUNK as much as 28 feet in elevation because of continued pumping out of the ground water for farming. Las Vegas has dropped 8 feet as well.
Drewski
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02-29-2024, 12:28 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: North of Cochrane
Posts: 6,781
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I think that is bad news
IME I have found that any problem that requires people to; smarten up, not be selfish/greedy or engage in long range planning will fail.
It is a shame.
__________________
"The well meaning have done more damage than all the criminals in the world" Great grand father "Never impute planning where incompetence will predict the phenomenon equally well" Father
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02-29-2024, 12:32 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: 509
Posts: 881
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Good point Drewski. My uncle who is 80 now and has over 9k acres of farm land. Almost never cleared bush or sloughs he always said those are needed. We need to look at taking percentages of run off and store or.make more reservoirs in the province. My quarter in Athabasca was floating last summer. Normal dry ground had 5 inches on top and it soaked in real fast. We need rain again thus spring. And some future planning.
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03-03-2024, 11:12 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Cowtown, agian
Posts: 2,819
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We've needed water and soil recovering programs for 40 years. The issue is we keep electing idiots because they're the only ones willing to politic with rare exception. So the idiots hire idiots that never leave.
The Crowsnest is low, and it's quite a bit lower than winter past. We are in a drought cycle, and it looks a lot like the 80s again. But contrary to our ideologues, the world isn't ending.
We just need to be responsible and stop a bunch of things we've decided we're now entitled to.
__________________
The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.
- Sir Winston Churchill
A body of men holding themselves accountable to nobody ought not to be trusted by anybody.
-Thomas Paine
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03-03-2024, 07:45 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 1,643
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewski Canuck
Unless you have a chinook blow through and some run off that does not go into the air by evaporation, all winter flows will be from springs and the flow from storage areas like beaver dams, irrigation dams and lakes with year round flow.
So for the Crowsnest to go dry is possible.
If ALL Industrial users took their allotment of the water licences downstream from Fort McMurray, the Athabasca River also would go dry.
So lets look at how to fix the problem, which means trying to capture ground water in the recharge areas to feed the springs all winter long.
Pumping ground water out will hurt the water table eventually. After successive drought years, the water table keeps dropping and the springs run dry. 100 foot water wells can be "dusters" requiring drilling to 200 foot to reach water. That is a declining water table.
Back in the late 2000's the St. Paul area received a record 18 inches or rain one summer. The lakes came up in the fall by 1 inch. Why? The ground had been so dry for so long that all the rain was absorbed into the ground, or the connected aquifers to the lake beds had to be recharged to saturation before the lake level could finally rise.
Only after saturation and recharge of the water table was there going to be any over land run off.
So quit ditching the low spots in the land for convenient farming. Encourage water retention and absorption were possible, even if it means drilling recharge wells.
The low spots are natural recharge areas to the aquifers and these are the eventual springs that give the winter flow to the rivers.
A hard lesson to learn, but perhaps the lesson will finally "sink" in with the local planning authorities in the Counties, and the towns that rely on the water.
But to prove the point, the San Juaquin Valley in California has SUNK as much as 28 feet in elevation because of continued pumping out of the ground water for farming. Las Vegas has dropped 8 feet as well.
Drewski
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San Joaquin
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I fish, therefore I am.
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03-05-2024, 07:14 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Central Alberta
Posts: 1,807
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Alberta has injected fresh water for Enhanced Oil Production for over 60 years at a rate of 1 bbl. Of oil = 1 bbl. Of water.
The CPR, who invented irrigation in Alberta dumped the whole thing on our Govt after realizing it was a money loosing boondoggle. We keep dumping money into a business which get free water, free infrastructure, destroys rivers, sterilizes land due to Salinization raising cows who crap on the ground at 60 lbs. each day (which is equivalent to 220,000,000 people).
It would make sense if we actually ate the all the products produced.
Don
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03-05-2024, 09:04 AM
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Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Andersen
Alberta has injected fresh water for Enhanced Oil Production for over 60 years at a rate of 1 bbl. Of oil = 1 bbl. Of water.
The CPR, who invented irrigation in Alberta dumped the whole thing on our Govt after realizing it was a money loosing boondoggle. We keep dumping money into a business which get free water, free infrastructure, destroys rivers, sterilizes land due to Salinization raising cows who crap on the ground at 60 lbs. each day (which is equivalent to 220,000,000 people).
It would make sense if we actually ate the all the products produced.
Don
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There he is, I was waiting for Don to chime in. Im surprised you're not trying to blame it on fracing again like the Raven River.
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03-05-2024, 11:11 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: BowIsland
Posts: 457
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I would sure like to know where this free water is coming from.
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03-05-2024, 11:17 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: North of Cochrane
Posts: 6,781
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I would love to hear what we should do.
I get that we have made mistakes, that's what people do, and then blame others, people do that too.
What would be helpful right now are ideas of what can be done so that we don't lose some of the best trout streams in Canada.
I have been laying out a line on the Castle and Crowsnest rivers for over 50 years and would like to keep it up.
Are there suggestions?
__________________
"The well meaning have done more damage than all the criminals in the world" Great grand father "Never impute planning where incompetence will predict the phenomenon equally well" Father
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03-05-2024, 12:41 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Central Alberta
Posts: 1,807
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And the 3 river dam would’ve cost $ 1.7 billion of taxpayers funds today.
Still waiting for my money back
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03-05-2024, 08:51 PM
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Moderator
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Wheatland County
Posts: 5,828
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macee
I would sure like to know where this free water is coming from.
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Now you'll confuse him with facts. Eleven different irrigation districts in Ab, big source of local jobs. Laying pipe annually to conserve water, reservoirs constructed for irrigation, recreation, and habitat. Generate a pile of Ag & commercial jobs & spin-off value.
__________________
If you're not a Liberal when you're young, you have no heart. If you're not a Conservative when you're old, you have no brain. Winston Churchill
All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent. Edmund Burke
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03-06-2024, 06:49 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Central Alberta
Posts: 1,807
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roper1
Now you'll confuse him with facts. Eleven different irrigation districts in Ab, big source of local jobs. Laying pipe annually to conserve water, reservoirs constructed for irrigation, recreation, and habitat. Generate a pile of Ag & commercial jobs & spin-off value.
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If the rest of us were not paying to keep you guys alive, you’d disappear.
Without Govt money, you are gone.
Vote UCP welfare!
Don
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03-06-2024, 07:05 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 7,696
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Andersen
If the rest of us were not paying to keep you guys alive, you’d disappear.
Without Govt money, you are gone.
Vote UCP welfare!
Don
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You grow or forage all your own food?
Hate to tell you but agriculture and farming is the whole reason we are no longer a nomadic society. Also a big reason why you actually have time to have hobbies like fly fishing
Could there be improvements to water management but a large portion of the reservoirs in Alberta only exist because of agriculture. There would be far less opportunity for Alberta anglers without it as well. You would also see higher concentrations of development near natural bodies of water without the irrigation that came with agriculture.
Seeking improvement I can respect but use common sense. People might take your position seriously then
The fact of the matter is we are presently in drought conditions and without Mother Nature lending a hand that is not going to change
But no matter the condition I have faith you will always have some kind of complaint
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03-06-2024, 07:09 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: 204
Posts: 5,617
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Andersen
If the rest of us were not paying to keep you guys alive, you’d disappear.
Without Govt money, you are gone.
Vote UCP welfare!
Don
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That's a bold opinion for an old person living in a country of public healthare.
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I don't think our taxes should be this high.
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03-07-2024, 10:10 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 379
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Here is an interesting link which breaks down water use in Alberta.
Interesting information about how 20 percent of the water supply is within 200 kms of the US border. And how 80 percent of the population resides in that band of land. A long range plan on water management is needed they recommend.
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7133575
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03-11-2024, 06:01 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 53
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I sure hope not....The crowsnest river is a fun river to fish from Coleman to Blairmore and below Lundbreck Falls....even catching fish while people have been swimming and floating all around ...
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03-11-2024, 10:26 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: WMU 303
Posts: 8,538
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHotChili
I sure hope not....The crowsnest river is a fun river to fish from Coleman to Blairmore and below Lundbreck Falls....even catching fish while people have been swimming and floating all around ...
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It's not dry. Not going dry. There is lots of snow in the mountains. It looks like it has for the past 50 years. The story published in the media is fantasy.........people creating stories to fit their narrative? I can't explain it otherwise.
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03-12-2024, 04:57 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 41
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Couldn't agree more CNP. That headline is completely false, whoever wrote that should be ashamed of themselves. I guess these days most articles in media do not require any truth or facts. Been here over 20 years and the river sure looks like it is at the typical level for this time of year.
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03-12-2024, 07:01 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 8,549
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Berniebeag
Couldn't agree more CNP. That headline is completely false, whoever wrote that should be ashamed of themselves. I guess these days most articles in media do not require any truth or facts. Been here over 20 years and the river sure looks like it is at the typical level for this time of year.
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Couldn't agree more.
Copy and Paste, spread the fear....
BW
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03-13-2024, 09:40 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 1,520
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CNP
It's not dry. Not going dry. There is lots of snow in the mountains. It looks like it has for the past 50 years. The story published in the media is fantasy.........people creating stories to fit their narrative? I can't explain it otherwise.
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I agree with you, but to be fair, the snow pack is garbage this year. I work in the area and can say it’s not like what it was 10-15 years ago.
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