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05-28-2018, 08:54 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 161
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I have not owned or shot a Kimber Hunter, I wasn't aware that I needed to in order to offer a critique of the stock and magazine?
So far you haven't disagreed that the stock on the A7 is better than the Kimber Hunter stock, just taken shots at my observations.
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05-28-2018, 10:43 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 15,777
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When you are comparing plastic to plastic all you have is fit. Are you familiar with the OP’s preferred stock dimensions?
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“I love it when clients bring Berger bullets. It means I get to kill the bear.”
-Billy Molls
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05-28-2018, 12:05 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 735
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck
When you are comparing plastic to plastic all you have is fit. Are you familiar with the OP’s preferred stock dimensions?
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This is pretty much were I am at now is fit. Aesthetically, it is a case of ugly and uglier, my CZ Lux is a beautiful wood, but this is all about a comfortable' weather proof set-up. I am leaning towards the A7 because it shoulders nicer for me than anything else I have held except the CZ 557.
Have actually changed my decision on caliber after posting a question on gun nutz, I will not drag out the details, but looking now at the basic, and readilly available .270 or .308.
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05-28-2018, 12:33 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 5,189
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i can't comment on the kimber but i was very fond of the feel of the sako a7 i just sold to thin the herd and i had the very first version of the stock and really liked it a lot more than a lot of rifles so i hear you on the feel
don't get hung up on cartridge, .270 win and .308 win are awesome too, so is the 7-08 and 6.5 cm
i'd be after that pro in the 6.5 cm though
either way mine would wear talley rings and leupold vx5hd 2-10x42 cds standard duplex with alumina flips....do everything rig
not sure what sako and tikka is waiting for in offering the 6.5 cm across the board though? maybe hang tough a little longer? Surely it must be coming?
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05-28-2018, 12:44 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck
When you are comparing plastic to plastic all you have is fit. Are you familiar with the OP’s preferred stock dimensions?
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I don't think you're seriously suggesting that fit is the only difference between the various synthetic stocks out these....because that's simply not the case and you know it.
If you like the Kimber Hunter stock better, more power to you. The Sako A7 has a better and grippier finish and is a stiffer stock based on my time fondling both rifles....perhaps my memory is going.
Btw.... there's a far wider discrepancy in quality in "plastic" rifle stocks than there has ever been in wood stocks. Just not sure where you're coming from on this.
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05-28-2018, 02:59 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Beaumont
Posts: 3,386
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^^^ Totally true. The difference between these stocks in terms of grip, fit and finish and most importantly stiffness favours the Sako. The Tikkas even have a better stock than what's on the Hunter.
How it fits is subjective but the quality difference is readily apparent. Saying plastic is plastic is like saying wood is wood, we all know that's not true either.
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The kill is the satisfying, indeed essential, conclusion to a successful hunt. But, I take no pleasure in the act itself. One does not hunt in order to kill, but kills in order to have hunted. Then why do I hunt? I hunt for the same reason my well-fed cat hunts...because I must, because it is in the blood, because I am the decendent of a thousand generations of hunters. I hunt because I am a hunter.- Finn Aagard
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05-28-2018, 03:17 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Beaumont
Posts: 3,386
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sns2
Zulu... There is an accuracy guarantee with the Kimber the exact same as the Sako. They even include a test target.
I don't see anyone confusing a Hunter for a Montana.
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Well someone on here is comparing it to an 8400 so not a Hunter. They also claim that the Kimber is heavier so at least one person isn't comparing the two rifles mentioned. 😀
I like the idea of the accuracy guarantee but I like it better when people come on forums and show targets or give real life examples of how their rifles or gear perform. I find those guarantees are a marketing tool at best and would probably be hard to get a company to honour. YMMV
Attached is a target froma Sako a7. First show was at 100 yards to verify that my scope hadn't inadvertently shifted POS since my last outing. The three shot group was because I dialed it to be a inch high at 100 yards. This was taken shooting off a rolled up coat not on a shooting bench with a rest either. 😀
To the OP. I love the 7-08 and have no problem finding quality ammo. I wouldn't sweat the cartridge that you choose though, too much. 270, 308, 7-08 or Creedmore will all do you fine.
Not sure why picture is turned 90
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The kill is the satisfying, indeed essential, conclusion to a successful hunt. But, I take no pleasure in the act itself. One does not hunt in order to kill, but kills in order to have hunted. Then why do I hunt? I hunt for the same reason my well-fed cat hunts...because I must, because it is in the blood, because I am the decendent of a thousand generations of hunters. I hunt because I am a hunter.- Finn Aagard
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05-28-2018, 03:53 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 15,777
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SakoShooter
I don't think you're seriously suggesting that fit is the only difference between the various synthetic stocks out these....because that's simply not the case and you know it.
If you like the Kimber Hunter stock better, more power to you. The Sako A7 has a better and grippier finish and is a stiffer stock based on my time fondling both rifles....perhaps my memory is going.
Btw.... there's a far wider discrepancy in quality in "plastic" rifle stocks than there has ever been in wood stocks. Just not sure where you're coming from on this.
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Handle a laid up carbon fibre or fibreglass stock and you will see the variance between injection molded stocks all but disappear. To add to that, the only broken injection molded stocks I’ve seen have been two Sakos.
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“I love it when clients bring Berger bullets. It means I get to kill the bear.”
-Billy Molls
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05-28-2018, 04:14 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: My House
Posts: 13,446
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Korth group is the distributor of Kimber in Canada and they have given me their word that should the rifle not meet accuracy guarantee they would stand behind it fully. They also come with a test target.
No one said Sako was not accurate, rather they have the same guarantee.
I am getting old, but I think it was you who mentioned roulette.
Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
Last edited by sns2; 05-28-2018 at 05:33 PM.
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05-28-2018, 04:27 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Beaumont
Posts: 3,386
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I did mention roulette you aren't that old 😀. The term Kimber roulette is pretty well known as you take your chances with a Kimber and hope that you get one of the ones that shoots well. If you haven't heard the term just google Kimber accuracy and it will show up.
To be fair though I think that applied to Kimbers from a few years ago and I wouldn't hesitate to buy a 84M or 84L actioned rifle these days because of accuracy concerns. But since you mentioned it😀
Chuck neither stock is a hand laid stock but that surely doesn't mean that differences aren't noticeable? I have had a nice rib eye before and yet can still tell the difference between a blade steak and hamburger.
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The kill is the satisfying, indeed essential, conclusion to a successful hunt. But, I take no pleasure in the act itself. One does not hunt in order to kill, but kills in order to have hunted. Then why do I hunt? I hunt for the same reason my well-fed cat hunts...because I must, because it is in the blood, because I am the decendent of a thousand generations of hunters. I hunt because I am a hunter.- Finn Aagard
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05-28-2018, 04:30 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 735
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Any opinions on how the light Kimber handles the recoil of a .270? My local store has the Kimber in .270 and A7 in .308 and that may be the deciding factor for caliber, tjough I did get a heads up on an A7 in .207 for a grwat deal.
Matt
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05-28-2018, 04:31 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 15,777
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Kimber roulette is more the shooter than anything else.
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“I love it when clients bring Berger bullets. It means I get to kill the bear.”
-Billy Molls
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05-28-2018, 05:11 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Beaumont
Posts: 3,386
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck
Kimber roulette is more the shooter than anything else.
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Could well be. 😀 I think that it also applied to poor machining and finish. However it seems to me that Kimber has rectified that and the ones being produced in the last few years have not been plagued with the "problems" of the past.
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The kill is the satisfying, indeed essential, conclusion to a successful hunt. But, I take no pleasure in the act itself. One does not hunt in order to kill, but kills in order to have hunted. Then why do I hunt? I hunt for the same reason my well-fed cat hunts...because I must, because it is in the blood, because I am the decendent of a thousand generations of hunters. I hunt because I am a hunter.- Finn Aagard
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05-28-2018, 05:14 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Morinville
Posts: 699
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Kimber 6.5 hand down!
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05-28-2018, 05:27 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Beaumont
Posts: 3,386
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This is the Hunter model. Just curious as to why it's a "hands down"?
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The kill is the satisfying, indeed essential, conclusion to a successful hunt. But, I take no pleasure in the act itself. One does not hunt in order to kill, but kills in order to have hunted. Then why do I hunt? I hunt for the same reason my well-fed cat hunts...because I must, because it is in the blood, because I am the decendent of a thousand generations of hunters. I hunt because I am a hunter.- Finn Aagard
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05-28-2018, 06:24 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Calgary
Posts: 1,543
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Kimber in 7mm-08
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05-28-2018, 08:00 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: W5
Posts: 1,093
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Why compromise on your choice of chamberings just because you're guilting yourself into supporting local guy?Get him to bring in what you want.
.308 would be my last choice of the 4 you are considering,.270 third,toss-up for me between your original two,the 7-08 and 6.5CM,either will serve you well for anything in AB shy of bison maybe?
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The toughest thing about waiting for the zombie apocalypse is pretending that I'm not excited.
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05-28-2018, 08:25 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Medicine Hat
Posts: 4,205
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Which one fits you better?
Buy that one.
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Trades I would interested in:
- Sightron rifle scopes, 4.5x14x42mm or 4x16x42mm
especially! with the HHR reticle. (no duplex pls.)
- older 6x fixed scopes with fine X or target dot.
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05-28-2018, 08:43 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Millet
Posts: 854
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck
Handle a laid up carbon fibre or fibreglass stock and you will see the variance between injection molded stocks all but disappear. To add to that, the only broken injection molded stocks I’ve seen have been two Sakos.
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I have had fiberglass McMillan stock break on me. Just because it supposed to be better doesn't always mean it is.
The roughtech version uses an aluminum chassis that is run throughout the stock. They add the composite that they use to give it the shape. If you search they have a photo of it showing the inner aluminum chassis.
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05-28-2018, 09:30 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 161
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Yes, the Roughtech stock is a very nice one, the soft touch stock isn't bad though for a budget rifle in my opinion. I definitely putnit a cut above the usual budget rifle stocks and would say it fits in with the Browning x-bolt dura touch stocks.
In fact, I think a browning x bolt is a good comparable for the Sako A7 quality wise.
A Kimber Montana is better than both....the Hunter stock and, especially magazine (one of the worst detachable mags out there imo) push it's quality below the price range it competes in.
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05-28-2018, 09:46 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 15,777
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SakoShooter
In fact, I think a browning x bolt is a good comparable for the Sako A7 quality wise.
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What an endorsement.
__________________
“I love it when clients bring Berger bullets. It means I get to kill the bear.”
-Billy Molls
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05-28-2018, 09:47 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 15,777
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hogie
I have had fiberglass McMillan stock break on me. Just because it supposed to be better doesn't always mean it is.
The roughtech version uses an aluminum chassis that is run throughout the stock. They add the composite that they use to give it the shape. If you search they have a photo of it showing the inner aluminum chassis.
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I wonder what percentage of McMillan stocks break?
__________________
“I love it when clients bring Berger bullets. It means I get to kill the bear.”
-Billy Molls
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05-28-2018, 09:51 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 735
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Quote:
Originally Posted by West O'5
Why compromise on your choice of chamberings just because you're guilting yourself into supporting local guy?Get him to bring in what you want.
.308 would be my last choice of the 4 you are considering,.270 third,toss-up for me between your original two,the 7-08 and 6.5CM,either will serve you well for anything in AB shy of bison maybe?
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I wasn't clear, I am steering away from the 6.5 and 7 because I cannot find much choice in ammo locally and nothing reasonably cheap. At this point, reloading is not in the cards and I am going to be plinking lots. My local guys will order in stuff for me if I want them to.
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05-28-2018, 10:16 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck
What an endorsement.
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What an ...
I realise this is the internet, but I doubt you're this unpleasantly rude in real life. Maybe try to treat others as you would if you were face to face.
Believe it or not, I'm trying to be helpful by offer my opinions based on my experiences with the rifles the OP asked about. I don't appreciate being belittled or treated like a moron by you, or anyone else.
Last edited by SakoShooter; 05-28-2018 at 10:24 PM.
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05-28-2018, 10:35 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 15,777
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SakoShooter
What an ...
I realise this is the internet, but I doubt you're this unpleasantly rude in real life. Maybe try to treat others as you would if you were face to face.
Believe it or not, I'm trying to be helpful by offer my opinions based on my experiences with the rifles the OP asked about. I don't appreciate being belittled or treated like a moron by you, or anyone else.
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I would tell you I don’t like Browning straight to your face. Believe me. I would happily show an audience what makes the Kimber a better option, I would show you why “grippy” plastic stocks aren’t the selling feature I’m after, and gladly watch you rebut my argument. I’m not hiding behind a handle. I’m not obligated to care how anyone feels about inanimate objects. We are talking about steel and plastic, that by your own admission, you don’t own. Please don’t lose sight of what this conversation is about.
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“I love it when clients bring Berger bullets. It means I get to kill the bear.”
-Billy Molls
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05-28-2018, 10:42 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 161
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I didn't realise this was all about what you.
If you read this thread from the beginning it's hard not to notice you constantly taking potshots and offering very little in the way of actual input.
Actually, you'll see post after post of you being downright rude.
Whatever....I find it irritating, but I'm not going to take this thread any further off the rails. The last word can be yours.
Last edited by SakoShooter; 05-28-2018 at 10:55 PM.
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05-28-2018, 10:49 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Millet
Posts: 854
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck
I wonder what percentage of McMillan stocks break?
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Anything can break. I'm sure they don't advertise what there failure rate is. They repair them. I'm not saying bad about them , they stood behind there product and fixed it. They make a great stock.
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05-29-2018, 02:19 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: W5
Posts: 1,093
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck
I wonder what percentage of McMillan stocks break?
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According to Kelly McMillan himself,on average they replace 2-3 stocks/year out of nearly 13,000/ year that they produce.Lets call that 2.5 broken stocks/year or 1 in 6500 =0.00019%......not bad I'd say.😉
Hogie^^ should buy a lotto ticket,lol....or maybe wear a helmet hunting if he's that hard on gear,haha.😝
KM also said the #1 cause of their stocks breaking is horses rolling on a scabbarded rifle,#2 being quad roll overs,in both cases they tend to break at the weakest point which is between the bolt notch and trigger cut out.
Regardless,all McM stocks are guaranteed repair or replace for life wether you are original owner or if it's a 20yr old stock you bought off of e-Bay,just pay S&H.
FWIW,if it's any indication of their toughness,McM has been making stocks for the USMC for over 40years since 1975.That said,if Uncle Sam's Misguided Children trust McM stocks to carry into battle and crack skulls with,pretty safe bet that it won't let you down on that Marco Polo hunt.
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The toughest thing about waiting for the zombie apocalypse is pretending that I'm not excited.
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05-29-2018, 08:41 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 15,777
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Quote:
Originally Posted by West O'5
According to Kelly McMillan himself,on average they replace 2-3 stocks/year out of nearly 13,000/ year that they produce.Lets call that 2.5 broken stocks/year or 1 in 6500 =0.00019%......not bad I'd say.😉
Hogie^^ should buy a lotto ticket,lol....or maybe wear a helmet hunting if he's that hard on gear,haha.😝
KM also said the #1 cause of their stocks breaking is horses rolling on a scabbarded rifle,#2 being quad roll overs,in both cases they tend to break at the weakest point which is between the bolt notch and trigger cut out.
Regardless,all McM stocks are guaranteed repair or replace for life wether you are original owner or if it's a 20yr old stock you bought off of e-Bay,just pay S&H.
FWIW,if it's any indication of their toughness,McM has been making stocks for the USMC for over 40years since 1975.That said,if Uncle Sam's Misguided Children trust McM stocks to carry into battle and crack skulls with,pretty safe bet that it won't let you down on that Marco Polo hunt.
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I know what they replace. And you are correct. Precious few. I know of two not close to me. One was in a horrendous horse wreck, the other fell off a mountain.
__________________
“I love it when clients bring Berger bullets. It means I get to kill the bear.”
-Billy Molls
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05-29-2018, 11:41 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 908
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck
Kimber roulette is more the shooter than anything else.
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Kimber Roulette was huge about 7/8 years ago and was far from a shooter problem. It was bad engineering and machining. Kimber reps openly admitted this. They even went so far as stopping production of a few calibers, I can't remember them all but know one was the 7-08 because a friend had one. Couldn't get the bullets to stabilize. Other calibers were facing same issue. That being said, 15 years ago Sako had barrels blowing up in them. Both companies have made mistakes, moved in and make quality rifles now.
Back to the OP's question, both are quality rifles. A thorough examination for a rifle used in the most common hinting scenario will, as has been outlined, give the edge to the A7 but most will not notice the difference. And for what it's worth, the 308 is a great caliber. It will kill anything in North America. No, it not as cool as the 6.5 or a magnums but it works and is a lot cheaper to shoot. I would much rather hunt with someone who practices and puts the bullet exactly where he wants it.
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