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Old 02-09-2020, 04:07 PM
260 Rem 260 Rem is online now
 
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Default Primer Storage

After a month in Palm Springs I returned to break-in a new 308 Win barrel with 8 cartridges I loaded just before leaving. They all went bang ... I loaded up a couple of groups the next morning, off to the Range ....every one failed to fire. Took them apart, reloaded from a different pack of primers (from the same brick), back to the Range ... clicks. Today tried some loads left over from a rifle I sold and they all went bang. No doubt something that happened while they were in storage killed the primers...the (partial) brick was stored in a metal container in a cool room while I was away. I have stored primers in the same location for years. Never had a problem before. CCI BR-2ís. Any ideas?
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Old 02-09-2020, 05:03 PM
32-40win 32-40win is offline
 
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Not off the top of my head, just used some that are nearly 30 yrs old, no issues with them. I have heard stories of some new formula primers having compounds that do break down in a shorter time span, can't remember what they were supposed to be though. No idea if they are truth or fiction.
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Old 02-09-2020, 05:52 PM
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These could be 5-6 years old ... I had a couple of bricks and these are the last of that batch. What is strange is that they were viable to the end of Dec and those loaded into cartridges worked...but those left in their packages inside the brick box went bad. There could have been some temperature variation in the room during the cold snap, but the cold room never froze.
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Old 02-09-2020, 06:36 PM
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Hard to say what the deal is, I store all my primers in plastic storage containers with air tight lids then inside a steel lock box, have never had a problem with any of them, got some that are at least 10 years old.
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Old 02-09-2020, 06:42 PM
Full Curl Earl Full Curl Earl is offline
 
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Default Seems odd

Seems odd.
But i never store primers in metal storage containers, such as military ammo crates. I just always felt they were prone to holding dampness which is why so many are rusted when you get them. No evidence but a suspicion. I vacuum seal each 100 pack and put them back into the bricks. So far so good, have some that are 15 years old.
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Old 02-09-2020, 06:58 PM
Battle Rat Battle Rat is offline
 
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More like that the firing pin is fouled a bit and not hitting hard enough.
Unless the primers are stored under water they should be fine.
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Old 02-09-2020, 08:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Battle Rat View Post
More like that the firing pin is fouled a bit and not hitting hard enough.
Unless the primers are stored under water they should be fine.
That was my initial suspicion, and Iím not ruling it out as a potential contributing factor. What weighted my thinking towards the primers is that everything I had loaded prior ... has gone bang...and only those loads made using the primers from that last brick are not igniting. I actually used different brass on the last attempt to be certain the primer was not seated too deep ...and they too were duds.
Tomorrow will try a new batch of primers and get the firing pin mechanism cleaned up.
And, in the future will use a plastic container...makes sense.
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Old 02-09-2020, 08:12 PM
Battle Rat Battle Rat is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 260 Rem View Post
That was my initial suspicion, and Iím not ruling it out as a potential contributing factor. What weighted my thinking towards the primers is that everything I had loaded prior ... has gone bang...and only those loads made using the primers from that last brick are not igniting. I actually used different brass on the last attempt to be certain the primer was not seated too deep ...and they too were duds.
Tomorrow will try a new batch of primers and get the firing pin mechanism cleaned up.
And, in the future will use a plastic container...makes sense.
You could test the primers in a different gun with no powder or bullet too.
I've seen a pretty good dent on primers that failed to fire.
I pulled the firing pin and cleaned the crap off of it and had no misfires since.
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Old 02-09-2020, 08:30 PM
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I had the same problem with one of my target rifles, took the bolt apart completely, and cleaned thoroughly.
Put it back together again and used the misfired ammo in it- BANG!
Some of the primers had deep dents on them, but the firing pin was hitting them too slowly.
had the same issue with a '996 Mauser years ago, as well.
Cat
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Old 02-10-2020, 11:40 AM
6.5 shooter 6.5 shooter is offline
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I store mine in an old file cabinet I have never had a problem and I have some really old primers 20-25 years old. I agree with Cat and others I would look at the firing pin, also IF? they have changed the go bang mixture in the primers they MAY? need a sharper crack to get them to go bang....dang lawyers.....
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Old 02-10-2020, 01:01 PM
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Primers don't go from working to not in a month unless something really odd happened to them like sitting under water for a week, and even then most of them would go bang. I have primers that are over 40 years old and loaded ammo a lot older than that. They all still go bang just fine. I would be looking at other causes.
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Old 02-10-2020, 01:15 PM
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Was it a much colder day or rifle sat outside longer causing the oil viscosity to increase slowing down the firing pin?
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Old 02-10-2020, 03:32 PM
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Primers don't go from working to not in a month unless something really odd happened to them like sitting under water for a week, and even then most of them would go bang. I have primers that are over 40 years old and loaded ammo a lot older than that. They all still go bang just fine. I would be looking at other causes.
Agree ... still a mystery...but ...bolt disassembled, cleaned. Go gauge would close on one layer of green tape but not on two so guesstimate of headspace is in the .003 - .006 range which is generous but still likely within parameters. Got new primers to try.
Andrew, temp would not have been a factor.
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Old 02-10-2020, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 260 Rem View Post
Agree ... still a mystery...but ...bolt disassembled, cleaned. Go gauge would close on one layer of green tape but not on two so guesstimate of headspace is in the .003 - .006 range which is generous but still likely within parameters. Got new primers to try.
Andrew, temp would not have been a factor.
I have a 308 no go if u need to borrow one.
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Old 02-10-2020, 03:41 PM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is offline
 
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I store ,my primers on a shelf, in the cardboard/plastic containers they come in. I am still using some primers that are well over ten years old, with no issues at all.
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Old 02-11-2020, 06:58 PM
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Bolt disassembled, pin protrusion measured ... all good. Tried some NK sized only brass which should have closed a bit of headspace and only 1/3 went bang. Now thinking either headspace or mechanical so will run back to smith tomorrow. Thanks to all for your trouble shooting ideas. I’m still learning!!
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Old 02-11-2020, 10:34 PM
Full Curl Earl Full Curl Earl is offline
 
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Are those neck sized only cases a little stiff to close on the bolt? If they are, the primers should ignite i suspect. And if so, your reloading practices may be the culprit. Are they a standard die you purchased new?
Rifle headspace checked out, so could be the case spacing.
Keep us updated.
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Old 02-11-2020, 11:05 PM
JCart JCart is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 260 Rem View Post
After a month in Palm Springs I returned to break-in a new 308 Win barrel with 8 cartridges I loaded just before leaving. They all went bang ... I loaded up a couple of groups the next morning, off to the Range ....every one failed to fire. Took them apart, reloaded from a different pack of primers (from the same brick), back to the Range ... clicks. Today tried some loads left over from a rifle I sold and they all went bang. No doubt something that happened while they were in storage killed the primers...the (partial) brick was stored in a metal container in a cool room while I was away. I have stored primers in the same location for years. Never had a problem before. CCI BR-2ís. Any ideas?
Hi 260 Rem,
Very similar with me also. Loading dozens and dozens of rounds for my .243 in Browning B78 for load work up and general shooting. CCI Large Rifle primers No.200, box of 1000. Have about 300 or so left, loading up some with Barnes bullets for my M70 Winchester .270, 40-50% donít fire, significant dent in primer. Fact Iíve loaded .270 then .243 with same batch from same 100 lot. Not 1 misfire with .243. Off to the Smith here in Kamloops and Steve Jennings said nope nothing wrong with .270. Even showed him dented rounds and his feeling was faulty primers... once I explained the above he said John, Iíve seen a few unexplainable things over the years and this happens to be another one with primers. Just happy I was at the range for misfires.... and only 300 left Ican live with replacing them with different brand. Last bunch I used I think were Federals. What about Mag pistol primers in my long guns? Iíve a ton of those as I donít pack my .44 S&W 629 for work anymore... sigh let the permit to carry lapse years ago now, dang in retro spect.... oh well. Any suggestions on primers appreciated Fellas.
Thx j
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Old 02-11-2020, 11:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCart View Post
Hi 260 Rem,
Very similar with me also. Loading dozens and dozens of rounds for my .243 in Browning B78 for load work up and general shooting. CCI Large Rifle primers No.200, box of 1000. Have about 300 or so left, loading up some with Barnes bullets for my M70 Winchester .270, 40-50% donít fire, significant dent in primer. Fact Iíve loaded .270 then .243 with same batch from same 100 lot. Not 1 misfire with .243. Off to the Smith here in Kamloops and Steve Jennings said nope nothing wrong with .270. Even showed him dented rounds and his feeling was faulty primers... once I explained the above he said John, Iíve seen a few unexplainable things over the years and this happens to be another one with primers. Just happy I was at the range for misfires.... and only 300 left Ican live with replacing them with different brand. Last bunch I used I think were Federals. What about Mag pistol primers in my long guns? Iíve a ton of those as I donít pack my .44 S&W 629 for work anymore... sigh let the permit to carry lapse years ago now, dang in retro spect.... oh well. Any suggestions on primers appreciated Fellas.
Thx j
Hate to say it but your smith doesn't know what he is talking about. This is not an unexplainable issue. Primers that fire 100% of the time in your 243 and 50% in your 270, the problem isn't the primers. There is something wrong with that 270, even if your smith couldn't find it.
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Old 02-11-2020, 11:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCart View Post
Hi 260 Rem,
Very similar with me also. Loading dozens and dozens of rounds for my .243 in Browning B78 for load work up and general shooting. CCI Large Rifle primers No.200, box of 1000. Have about 300 or so left, loading up some with Barnes bullets for my M70 Winchester .270, 40-50% donít fire, significant dent in primer. Fact Iíve loaded .270 then .243 with same batch from same 100 lot. Not 1 misfire with .243. Off to the Smith here in Kamloops and Steve Jennings said nope nothing wrong with .270. Even showed him dented rounds and his feeling was faulty primers... once I explained the above he said John, Iíve seen a few unexplainable things over the years and this happens to be another one with primers. Just happy I was at the range for misfires.... and only 300 left Ican live with replacing them with different brand. Last bunch I used I think were Federals. What about Mag pistol primers in my long guns? Iíve a ton of those as I donít pack my .44 S&W 629 for work anymore... sigh let the permit to carry lapse years ago now, dang in retro spect.... oh well. Any suggestions on primers appreciated Fellas.
Thx j
NOT a good idea the cups are not as thick and they may pierce in a rifle due to the stronger firing pin spring.
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Old 02-11-2020, 11:41 PM
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I don’t suspect my reloading or dies as I have reloaded thousands of 308 rounds ... and what I thought at first blush made sense at the time, but now...not so much. I previously had two different barrels on this action (30-284 and 6.5SLR) with no misfires. Will be sure to report back when the riddle is solved.
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Old 02-11-2020, 11:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Dean2 View Post
Hate to say it but your smith doesn't know what he is talking about. This is not an unexplainable issue. Primers that fire 100% of the time in your 243 and 50% in your 270, the problem isn't the primers. There is something wrong with that 270, even if your smith couldn't find it.
Reading though this thread Catnthehat, got me thinking about firing pin velocity, so I might have gander at full strip down, clean and see what happens. In the meantime Iíll pick up nuther brand of primers too.
j
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Old 02-11-2020, 11:43 PM
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NOT a good idea the cups are not as thick and they may pierce in a rifle due to the stronger firing pin spring.
Ok cool thanks.
j
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Old 02-11-2020, 11:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCart View Post
Reading though this thread Catnthehat, got me thinking about firing pin velocity, so I might have gander at full strip down, clean and see what happens. In the meantime Iíll pick up nuther brand of primers too.
j
Try a new firing pin spring while u are at it. They do get weak over the years and almost no one checks them or replaces them.
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Old 02-11-2020, 11:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 260 Rem View Post
I donít suspect my reloading or dies as I have reloaded thousands of 308 rounds ... and what I thought at first blush made sense at the time, but now...not so much. I previously had two different barrels on this action (30-284 and 6.5SLR) with no misfires. Will be sure to report back when the riddle is solved.
Hope you get it sorted .260 Rem, apologies for seemingly crashing your thread, just seemed odd to have (somewhat) similar misfire primer failures.
Cheers,
j
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Old 02-11-2020, 11:49 PM
Full Curl Earl Full Curl Earl is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCart View Post
Reading though this thread Catnthehat, got me thinking about firing pin velocity, so I might have gander at full strip down, clean and see what happens. In the meantime Iíll pick up nuther brand of primers too.
j
Thatís certainly worth trying a new spring, and inexpensive.
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Old 02-12-2020, 12:01 AM
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The other thing worth checking is to make sure the sear is completely releasing when u pull the trigger. European and old style triggers had over travel to ensure a clean and complete release. In today's world where the fashion is to have no over travel you can also get sear drag which causes the firing pin to leave a good dent but to have insufficient velocity to fire off the primer properly. It gives the same outcome as a weak firing pin spring but due to drag.
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Old 02-12-2020, 06:37 AM
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Originally Posted by 6.5 shooter View Post
NOT a good idea the cups are not as thick and they may pierce in a rifle due to the stronger firing pin spring.
Iíve used many, many pistol primers with form loads and have yet to blank a primer.
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Old 02-12-2020, 06:43 AM
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One way to test if it's the primers vs the rifle would be to pick up a box or two of cheap ppi or federal ball ammo and just have fun with some pop cans. See if you get any misfired from them.

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Old 02-12-2020, 09:45 PM
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Quote:
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Iíve used many, many pistol primers with form loads and have yet to blank a primer.
Forming loads are not full power loads but it is your bolt face....feel free.
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