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12-17-2017, 02:52 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,666
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Open minded discussion: paid access the pros and cons
I would like to keep this respectful. If that is not possible please keep your comments to yourself.
I'm a advocate of landowners rights and believe one of the rights a landowner should have is to do as he/she sees fit as long as it does not endanger the general public nor have adverse effects on the environment. In my mind paid access includes hunting, fishing, camping and just about anything some might want to do on private deeded land.
I'm gonna guess that many like myself have never paid nor received payment for access to private except if you're a camper who stays in campgrounds. If you've been involved in paying for access I would like to hear your experiences and thoughts.
These are some of the pros I can think of off hand.
Landowner can make additional income of the property
Open up more private land for recreational users
Average landowner might be more inclined to better manage the property in terms of wildlife
The cons
Not all could afford the access fee
Potentially could lead to more trespassing violations
Please fill free to add if you are a landowner or not.
Last edited by Norwest Alta; 12-17-2017 at 02:59 PM.
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12-17-2017, 03:17 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Look behind you :)
Posts: 27,780
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When you assign a $$$ value to access things get locked down and it becomes a rich mans game period.
LC
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12-17-2017, 05:21 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: At the end of the Thirsty Beaver Trail, Pinsky lake, Alberta.
Posts: 24,623
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck
When you assign a $$$ value to access things get locked down and it becomes a rich mans game period.
LC
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Yup and people get real greedy and find out in the long run that it was not worth it.
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Be careful when you follow the masses, sometimes the "M" is silent...
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12-18-2017, 09:07 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Millet, AB
Posts: 1,266
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck
When you assign a $$$ value to access things get locked down and it becomes a rich mans game period.
LC
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Nothing more needs to be said than this right here. Theres not one justifiable place on earth where this theory hasnt been proven true. End of story.
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My Blog---> Alberta Outdoors Journal
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12-19-2017, 08:25 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Southern Alberta
Posts: 93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wildside2014
Nothing more needs to be said than this right here. Theres not one justifiable place on earth where this theory hasnt been proven true. End of story.
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I am all for it,, you want to play, you pay.... can't afford it, take up another hobby, pretty simple..
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12-19-2017, 08:43 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Millet, AB
Posts: 1,266
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buschy03
I am all for it,, you want to play, you pay.... can't afford it, take up another hobby, pretty simple..
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This might be the bonehead AO post of the year right here
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My Blog---> Alberta Outdoors Journal
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12-17-2017, 03:19 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 509
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norwest Alta
I would like to keep this respectful. If that is not possible please keep your comments to yourself.
I'm a advocate of landowners rights and believe one of the rights a landowner should have is to do as he/she sees fit as long as it does not endanger the general public nor have adverse effects on the environment. In my mind paid access includes hunting, fishing, camping and just about anything some might want to do on private deeded land.
I'm gonna guess that many like myself have never paid nor received payment for access to private except if you're a camper who stays in campgrounds. If you've been involved in paying for access I would like to hear your experiences and thoughts.
These are some of the pros I can think of off hand.
Landowner can make additional income of the property
Open up more private land for recreational users
Average landowner might be more inclined to better manage the property in terms of wildlife
The cons
Not all could afford the access fee
Potentially could lead to more trespassing violations
Please fill free to add if you are a landowner or not.
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I am not a landowner ,but recently was seriously considering buying a property for hunting due to the amount of people hunting in the crown land .
Fortunately, I have some very good friends, who own the land and me and my friends are welcomed to hunt there.
Those properties are 4-9 hours away from my house and I don't mind driving so much to get a quality hunt , not a gang Shaw one can usually see around big city on the opening day.
As to the paid access to the land ,if they will do it here in Alberta, it would be not any different then Europe or US or another places in the world were hunting is popular.
So, definitely against the money to be involved for hunting to be paid on a private land.
Last edited by shooter12; 12-17-2017 at 03:26 PM.
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12-17-2017, 03:26 PM
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Moderator
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Stony Plain
Posts: 6,645
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Not a land owner ,I used to hunt farm land almost exclusively but quit several years ago partly due to the hostile attitudes mostly on this forum. I never really had any problems getting permission but the thought of running into the aggressive internet hero types that seem to spend most of their waking hours looking for a possible trespasser either on their land or some land they imagine they have exclusive rights to just put me off of the whole thing . I hunt crown land only and am fine with that .
That being said, many hunt private land and good for them . I think paid access will make a sport that is already suffering ,even more of an elitists game .
Those who can afford it will lock up as much land as possible and keep more and more common hunters out. It will not kill the sport it will just make it more difficult for the average hunter . Think England ,and US with large game ranches for the well heeled . It's a slippery slope but I can see it coming.
Merica!!
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12-17-2017, 03:34 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jungleboy
Not a land owner ,I used to hunt farm land almost exclusively but quit several years ago partly due to the hostile attitudes mostly on this forum. I never really had any problems getting permission but the thought of running into the aggressive internet hero types that seem to spend most of their waking hours looking for a possible trespasser either on their land or some land they imagine they have exclusive rights to just put me off of the whole thing . I hunt crown land only and am fine with that .
That being said, many hunt private land and good for them . I think paid access will make a sport that is already suffering ,even more of an elitists game .
Those who can afford it will lock up as much land as possible and keep more and more common hunters out. It will not kill the sport it will just make it more difficult for the average hunter . Think England ,and US with large game ranches for the well heeled . It's a slippery slope but I can see it coming.
Merica!!
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I don’t think I could agree more with you if my life depended on it.
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12-17-2017, 03:39 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 11,376
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Paid access will be the end of hunting. Many will just say the heck with it and quit. The anti's will have little opposition except they will be facing a lot of money. If it comes to that I wouldn't lift a finger to help those that destroyed my heritage. Good luck to the douche nozzles.
__________________
“One of the sad signs of our times is that we have demonized those who produce, subsidized those who refuse to produce, and canonized those who complain.”
Thomas Sowell
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12-17-2017, 03:45 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,666
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Douche nozzle? Well ain't that respectful and open minded.
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12-17-2017, 03:47 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,666
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Those that are saying it'll mean the end of hunting please elaborate on how and why. I'm trying to understand.
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12-17-2017, 03:50 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Stony Plain
Posts: 828
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Don’t kid ourselves. The paid access is already happening out there and it stinks. Paid access has no benefits in my eyes.
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12-17-2017, 03:52 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: 204
Posts: 5,450
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dfrobert
Don’t kid ourselves. The paid access is already happening out there and it stinks. Paid access has no benefits in my eyes.
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Yet everyone still finds a place to hunt.
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"I like to quote my own quotes" ~ Dewey Cox
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12-17-2017, 03:54 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: West of the 5th
Posts: 954
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Hunting is a privilege not a right. Same as driving. I'm all for paid access. When you pay for something you usually have more respect for it
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12-17-2017, 05:00 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 997
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dfrobert
Don’t kid ourselves. The paid access is already happening out there and it stinks. Paid access has no benefits in my eyes.
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I'll put a caveat to the above. It is already happening in trophy animal areas and any area within 2 hours of any centre bigger than 10000 people. Truth as it is today. I do not play the "ask permission game" anymore if the above Conditions exist. I hunt crown land or private land so remote the local landowners appreciate someone showing some respect by asking for permission before they just help themselves.
So do i think it would be better or worse? Bout the same is my guess. Not sure how the hunters that are currently on the outside looking in would be in any worse shape.
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12-18-2017, 03:46 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Parkland County, AB
Posts: 4,257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dfrobert
Don’t kid ourselves. The paid access is already happening out there and it stinks. Paid access has no benefits in my eyes.
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For sure, lets not kid ourselves . It's been going on for years in one form or another and getting more prevalent and obvious every year.
The good old days are now !
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When applied by competent people with the right intent, common sense goes a long way.
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12-17-2017, 03:45 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 255
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In Alberta wildlife does not belong to the landowner to do with as he pleases, it belongs to all Albertans, a fact lost on many landowners.
As already stated, once the right to hunt has a dollar value put on it, it becomes a rich mans game and generally the only ones in favour will be the landowner that see $$$ and rich "hunters". Most of those that appreciate the hunt and the right to hunt the most, will be shut out.
We don't need European or Texas style hunting here.
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12-17-2017, 04:37 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deadeye
In Alberta wildlife does not belong to the landowner to do with as he pleases, it belongs to all Albertans, a fact lost on many landowners.
As already stated, once the right to hunt has a dollar value put on it, it becomes a rich mans game and generally the only ones in favour will be the landowner that see $$$ and rich "hunters". Most of those that appreciate the hunt and the right to hunt the most, will be shut out.
We don't need European or Texas style hunting here.
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As a landowner myself, of course I realize I don't own the wildlife that live on my land. Do I not have the right to choose who can and who can't hunt on my land? For the first time in over 75 years of our family owning this land we will be posting it up prior to start of 2018 season. We've had an alarming increase of tresspassers over the last 5-10 years. The roads in my area were like Jasper ave during hunting season and not one soul stopped in to ask for permission, even had to chase couple trucks off our land.
We have a neighbor who doesn't hunt but just doesn't agree with hunting period. As a hunter I have to respect his wishes(even though he's got trophy bucks and Bulls on his property). Something that seems to be lost among so many Albertans is that respect. Where did it go?
As for paid access, My feelings are mixed. I can see pros and cons. Probably just a matter of time as it was when the Americans wanted to hunt our game and were willing to pay.
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12-17-2017, 03:47 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: 204
Posts: 5,450
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Forbidding compensation for land access is immoral.
Hunt for free on crown land.
__________________
"I like to quote my own quotes" ~ Dewey Cox
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12-17-2017, 04:08 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 467
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I think i May be able to offer another perspective - that of the outfitter.
We’re not all sleazeballs, though I can think of several who have absolutely destroyed the image of what we do. We don’t all make a ton of cash on our hunts - i do it for love of the hunt and the amazing friends I’ve made and hunt with. About 90% of the land i hunt is private, 10% crown.
I don’t pay to hunt - never have. I’ve been asked by landowners for money, and always refused - there’s so much land out there, that risking charges isn’t worth it. I’ve known of one previously mentioned sleazeball who WAS convicted of offering bribes for permission, and the penalty for such is astronomical. It simply isn’t worth the risk to me.
I’ve had this same discussion with many American clients - they’re shocked that the landowners don’t make any money from our hunts. Most of them have said that if it was an option to pay an extra five hundred or thousand bucks for a hunt to lock up some access, they would do it in a heartbeat.
This leads me to believe that it would be a far reaching problem if it were made legal here in Alberta. I would hate for locals to lose out on opportunity to hunt because a select few can afford to pay for access... we’re already a much-hated group, and paid access would DEFINITELY cut down on resident opportunity.
Now, having said this - i definitely believe there should be a way for landowners to make some money off their lands when it comes to hunting. The best thing I’ve heard of is adding an amount to the cost of a deer license - when someone tags an animal, he/she gives a portion of the tag or license to the landowner, which can he/she can then redeem for cash. The amount added to each license shouldn’t be much - maybe $50? $25? I don’t know, let the higher ups decide that sort of thing, but i think it would do well for giving landowners options.
If they want to make decent money - open up their property to many people. Let the meat hunters come out, and he can cash in... i don’t imagine this sort of thing would last long - after a few years he wouldn’t have animals on his place, but that would be his decision.
If he wants to manage it further, maybe he only allows a few people on per year. Who knows? At least it’s an option
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12-17-2017, 04:28 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SageValleyOutdoors
I don’t know, let the higher ups decide that sort of thing
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That in itself is terrifying
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12-17-2017, 04:34 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 782
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Bo
Paid access establishes classes within the hunting community which is the complete opposite direction we have to go if we intend to perserve our sport and hunting heritage! I am strongly opposed to paid access.
Morb
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To speak without thinking is like shooting without aiming!!
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12-17-2017, 04:47 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,666
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morbius131
Paid access establishes classes within the hunting community which is the complete opposite direction we have to go if we intend to perserve our sport and hunting heritage! I am strongly opposed to paid access.
Morb
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I can understand this but the classes are already there no matter how you look at it.
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12-17-2017, 05:07 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: central Alberta
Posts: 12,629
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I am just wondering?... No one has mentioned the liability involved with this type of paid access. If someone is receiving money the money becomes a contract. Contracts involve both parties being responsible to different degrees. I know contracts can be tailored to suit but still is a contract. Anyone else think this could be a factor?
Also, the lands in our province have been designated for different purposes. Land designated as agricultural cannot do certain things as far as developing the land. Every county has restrictions. Last year one county SE of red deer was flying over county properties looking for people setting up private camping spots and shutting them down.
And taxes wise...A landowner has a farm tax. If he is making money off of the land not agriculturally, it could affect his tax rates.
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This country was started by voyagers whose young lives were swept away by the currents of the rivers for ten cents a day... just for the vanity of the European's beaver hats. ~ Red Bullets
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It is when you walk alone in nature that you discover your strengths and weaknesses. ~ Red Bullets
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12-17-2017, 04:43 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,666
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One of the things that I have a hard time wrapping my head around is that I can charge for someone to park their motor home and do a little camping. Possibly even fish in my dugout. Many of you already do pay for this or possibly would pay for it but the minute someone throws in the hunting word and paying for access to my property all hell breaks loose.
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12-17-2017, 04:48 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ft. McMurray
Posts: 38,585
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leasing a spot on someone's land simply to park an RV is one thing.
leasing a spot on someone's land with the intent of that person then letting them hunt big game on that land is another.
Cat
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Anytime I figure I've got this long range thing figured out, I just strap into the sling and irons and remind myself that I don't!
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12-17-2017, 04:48 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norwest Alta
One of the things that I have a hard time wrapping my head around is that I can charge for someone to park their motor home and do a little camping. Possibly even fish in my dugout. Many of you already do pay for this or possibly would pay for it but the minute someone throws in the hunting word and paying for access to my property all hell breaks loose.
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Not sure if you can legally charge for access to fish. I’ve never encountered that. Off to Google I go...
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12-17-2017, 04:50 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 765
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norwest Alta
One of the things that I have a hard time wrapping my head around is that I can charge for someone to park their motor home and do a little camping. Possibly even fish in my dugout. Many of you already do pay for this or possibly would pay for it but the minute someone throws in the hunting word and paying for access to my property all hell breaks loose.
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I've asked before how in that situation do you protect my right to the public trust?
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12-17-2017, 05:18 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 15,854
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norwest Alta
I would like to keep this respectful. If that is not possible please keep your comments to yourself.
I'm a advocate of landowners rights and believe one of the rights a landowner should have is to do as he/she sees fit as long as it does not endanger the general public nor have adverse effects on the environment. In my mind paid access includes hunting, fishing, camping and just about anything some might want to do on private deeded land.
I'm gonna guess that many like myself have never paid nor received payment for access to private except if you're a camper who stays in campgrounds. If you've been involved in paying for access I would like to hear your experiences and thoughts.
These are some of the pros I can think of off hand.
Landowner can make additional income of the property
Open up more private land for recreational users
Average landowner might be more inclined to better manage the property in terms of wildlife
The cons
Not all could afford the access fee
Potentially could lead to more trespassing violations
Please fill free to add if you are a landowner or not.
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There is a lot of public land under private control. Let’s take care of that problem first. But if you in your wildest dreams don’t think paid hunting will end hunting for 60% of Albertans, mostly young Albertans, you need to rethink your position.
This position is anti hunting. It will have more affect than any peta campaign ever will.
__________________
“I love it when clients bring Berger bullets. It means I get to kill the bear.”
-Billy Molls
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