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  #121  
Old 06-08-2019, 02:58 PM
ReconWilly ReconWilly is offline
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The lack of outrage over this blatant racism and discrimination of the majority is depressing.

Cuckedanada.
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  #122  
Old 06-17-2019, 01:14 PM
IronNoggin IronNoggin is offline
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“The trust with DFO has been broken,” says Dan Quigley, a Port Renfrew Chamber of Commerce director who has been fishing in the area for 40 years. “We had hoped to build some alliances, but they stomped all over that and the communications have not been good.”

“We are the low-hanging fruit with government making it look good for the general public,” says Wells, pointing out that, when thousands of SNC-Lavalin jobs were at stake in Quebec, the federal government was anxious to take action, but DFO appears unwilling to save fishing jobs in B.C.


https://thenarwhal.ca/life-after-chi...einvent-itself

Port Renfrew is but one of many Coastal Communities facing disaster directly due to Wilkinson's heavy handed political decisions, and his government's refusal to do anything for those affected. Shameful!!
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  #123  
Old 06-19-2019, 02:08 PM
IronNoggin IronNoggin is offline
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Unfortunately due to mechanical difficulties (damn front differential) I was unable to attend today's scheduled meeting with Conservative MP Calkins (Federal Standing Committee on Fisheries) & Staff.

However two of our Directors did make it there.They both suggested the discussions were very positive, and that Blaine was both attentive and supportive.They also noted that he still requires some additional education regarding fisheries matters in BC, but was quick to grasp what they laid out in that regard for him.

I believe we both have an ally in MP Calkins. I will be following up directly with him in the next couple of days as a consequence. Although it was disappointing MP Doherty could not make this trip, his schedule at this point simply precluded that. I will be following up with Doherty in the next few days as well.

Overall the impression was that there is genuine concern, and a willingness to work with both the recreational and commercial troll sector in moving forward. Hell of a different impression than Wilkinson and the lieberals have left us with.

On the related matter, the so-called Impact Study has been settled - frankly it does not exist. I will be following up on that issue as it is a rather serious offense of lying to a government committee by Department of Fisheries and Oceans Paul Gillis, Director General, Strategic Policy.

Cheers, Nog
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  #124  
Old 06-19-2019, 08:37 PM
tony d tony d is offline
 
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Iron thanks for all the hard work on this subject it’s obviously a labor of love and I respect your commitment to that
Cheers Tony
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  #125  
Old 06-21-2019, 09:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tony d View Post
Iron thanks for all the hard work on this subject it’s obviously a labor of love and I respect your commitment to that
Cheers Tony
X2 soiled information as always let’s hope changes can be made
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  #126  
Old 06-21-2019, 07:13 PM
IronNoggin IronNoggin is offline
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The fishing restrictions imposed by the federal Fisheries Department this spring has already had a devastating effect on businesses, according to a survey conducted by the Port Renfrew Chamber of Commerce.

https://www.sookenewsmirror.com/news...of-businesses/
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  #127  
Old 07-01-2019, 05:49 PM
IronNoggin IronNoggin is offline
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68eW47BEkE8&t=2s
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  #128  
Old 07-02-2019, 06:34 AM
Jim Blake Jim Blake is offline
 
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The fact that the Minister hasn't even responded to the Angling Groups is disgusting!! My letter hasn't even got a response written by a Minion.

He is suppose to be working for the Public. I hope at Election time a very harsh message gets sent!!
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  #129  
Old 07-02-2019, 12:04 PM
IronNoggin IronNoggin is offline
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Originally Posted by Jim Blake View Post
The fact that the Minister hasn't even responded to the Angling Groups is disgusting!! My letter hasn't even got a response written by a Minion.
Many of us have sent letters both to Wilkinson & Trudeau (SPIT!).
The latter responded with a form letter letting us know they had passed it along to Fisheries.
Fisheries has not even bothered with a response, including to individuals and sector representatives. It's as though like an ostrich he believes if he sticks his head in the sand long enough, we will all go away. That ain't going to happen.

There is a rather strong push at this point to entirely remove the liberals from BC this fall. Wilkinson first.

Nog
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  #130  
Old 07-02-2019, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by IronNoggin View Post
Many of us have sent letters both to Wilkinson & Trudeau (SPIT!).
The latter responded with a form letter letting us know they had passed it along to Fisheries.
Fisheries has not even bothered with a response, including to individuals and sector representatives. It's as though like an ostrich he believes if he sticks his head in the sand long enough, we will all go away. That ain't going to happen.

There is a rather strong push at this point to entirely remove the liberals from BC this fall. Wilkinson first.

Nog
If they ever respond it is a cookie cutter letter.

Thank you for your concerns and be assured we have your best interests in mind....
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Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck
I wasn't thinking far enough ahead for an outcome, I was ranting. By definition, a rant doesn't imply much forethought.....
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  #131  
Old 07-03-2019, 07:08 PM
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https://vancouver.craigslist.org/van...926013492.html

Fresh Frazer River Salmon - $20 (Hope B.C)
© craigslist - Map data © OpenStreetMap
(google map)

Hi there, we're happy to report we have fresh Spring Salmon available for sale by the pound @4.00 dollars per. SOCKEYE have arrived and are 20.00 dollars each. Text if possible or email.
show contact info
Ask for Chris or Ashley.
Let's make a deal. Larger orders can get a reduced price per fish
do NOT contact me with unsolicited services or offers
post id: 6926013492
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Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck
I wasn't thinking far enough ahead for an outcome, I was ranting. By definition, a rant doesn't imply much forethought.....
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  #132  
Old 07-04-2019, 12:00 PM
IronNoggin IronNoggin is offline
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Ad has been deleted apparently.
Hope someone reported it before it vanished...

Disturbing,
Nog
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  #133  
Old 07-04-2019, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IronNoggin View Post
Ad has been deleted apparently.
Hope someone reported it before it vanished...

Disturbing,
Nog
That ad had a thousand hits and a hundred shares on 1 forum. Likely seen by 10,000 people
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Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck
I wasn't thinking far enough ahead for an outcome, I was ranting. By definition, a rant doesn't imply much forethought.....
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  #134  
Old 07-04-2019, 01:23 PM
IronNoggin IronNoggin is offline
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Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette View Post
That ad had a thousand hits and a hundred shares on 1 forum. Likely seen by 10,000 people
GOOD! The more exposure of this idiocy the better!

A little slow out of the gate, but finally a report of some nature:

https://rachelblaney.ndp.ca/chinook-...fishery-report

Unfortunately the Minister and his government could not care any less.

Nog
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  #135  
Old 07-04-2019, 01:50 PM
markg markg is offline
 
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Default Lets get radical

Here is an idea lets stop all fishing on the west coast of North America for 5 years. Commercial Recreational Indidginous. Everyone period. That way its equal.

Cull 25% of the seals. Ocra I dont know Ill leave that in the hands of someone smarter.

let the fish stocks come back and then look at how to better manage a healthy population.
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  #136  
Old 07-04-2019, 02:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markg View Post
Here is an idea lets stop all fishing on the west coast of North America for 5 years. Commercial Recreational Indidginous. Everyone period. That way its equal.

Cull 25% of the seals. Ocra I dont know Ill leave that in the hands of someone smarter.

let the fish stocks come back and then look at how to better manage a healthy population.
Where will you find the money to man the destroyers to patrol this little venture? Japan has just confirmed they are back into whale harvesting, how exactly do you think you are going to stop them and China from hauling a few million tons of salmon out of the Pacific Northeast? The FN have said they will never stop netting the rivers, until the nets are dry or empty.
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Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck
I wasn't thinking far enough ahead for an outcome, I was ranting. By definition, a rant doesn't imply much forethought.....
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  #137  
Old 07-04-2019, 04:06 PM
markg markg is offline
 
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Default No worries

Well dont bitch at me when the salmon are extinct. I love salmon fishing and have family in Sooke BC I would be willing to sacrifice 5 years of no fish if at the end of that time I was able to catch 10 or 20 in a day. (notice catch not keep)

I didnt say it would be easy, nothing of value in life is ever easy. All parties would need to comply or be forced to comply. I guess people need to ask themselves how they would feel about Salmon going extinct? Would such measures be worth saving them? I say yes. But I am just a goofy redneck from Alberta.
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  #138  
Old 07-04-2019, 07:30 PM
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Originally Posted by markg View Post
Well dont bitch at me when the salmon are extinct. I love salmon fishing and have family in Sooke BC I would be willing to sacrifice 5 years of no fish if at the end of that time I was able to catch 10 or 20 in a day. (notice catch not keep)

I didnt say it would be easy, nothing of value in life is ever easy. All parties would need to comply or be forced to comply. I guess people need to ask themselves how they would feel about Salmon going extinct? Would such measures be worth saving them? I say yes. But I am just a goofy redneck from Alberta.
I don't see anyone bitching at you now?
How many years have you been salmon fishing?
How many years have your family in Sooke BC been fishing?
Sounds like you know what you are doing.
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Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck
I wasn't thinking far enough ahead for an outcome, I was ranting. By definition, a rant doesn't imply much forethought.....
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  #139  
Old 07-04-2019, 10:18 PM
markg markg is offline
 
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Default I dont know much

I confess that I dont know that much about it. I know that I love fishing and would hate to see things get worse than they are. I simply expressed an opinion. I will readily admit that many on this forum know a great deal more about things than I do.

With that said I havent seen a solution to the problem that didn't involve pandering to one group or another. I see a lot of blame being passed around. I believe rightly or wrongly that all parties involved have contributed to the problem and must be part of the solution. As stakeholders they can continue the blame game and let the problem get worse.

Whats the worse that could happen if all fishing by all parties was stopped for 5 years? Would the Salmon population be better or worse? I am in no way saying it would be a easy or simple solution to the problem. I know the impact it would have on the economy in the short term. I owned my own modestly successful business for 10 years and understand what this would mean.

What would it mean to the west coast economy if the entire fishery collapses permanently? All those tourist dollars would be permanently lost.

I think we need to look at the bigger picture and approach the problem with the long game in mind. If the salmon stocks could be brought back to a sustainable level then all stakeholders would benefit. The question is will all those affected rather point fingers at others or be willing to make radical changes so that they and there grand children could enjoy a Salmon fishery for all people and generations.

I could be wrong and I am willing to listen to other solutions.

Last edited by markg; 07-04-2019 at 10:40 PM.
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  #140  
Old 07-04-2019, 10:36 PM
markg markg is offline
 
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Default Some Answers to your questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette View Post
I don't see anyone bitching at you now?
How many years have you been salmon fishing?

I think I first went fishing there in the the late 90's early 2000's

How many years have your family in Sooke BC been fishing?

My family has been there since the late 80's early 90's and owned a local business but have since exited the business but still live in the community.

Sounds like you know what you are doing.
I truly dont know anything more than anyone else. I just see a particular solution to the problem. Other solutions may be better than mine I just havent seen one proposed that would be a slam dunk fix.

Mine would require a lot of buy in from a lot of very different groups. It would likely be cost prohibitive. It would also require international trade to be brought into the equation and I dont have any confidence that our current federal government has the ability to work with Japan, China or the USA to arrive a diplomatic solution to the problem. It wont be easy.

Lastly what do you think they should do Ken? How would you fix this problem if you were the fisheries minister?
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  #141  
Old 07-04-2019, 11:00 PM
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Mark that is a perfectly written reply. Great points. If someone had THE answer there would be a dozen groups pop up saying he is wrong.
And Asia would clean everything out.
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Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck
I wasn't thinking far enough ahead for an outcome, I was ranting. By definition, a rant doesn't imply much forethought.....
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  #142  
Old 07-05-2019, 08:04 AM
West O'5 West O'5 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by IronNoggin View Post
First: DFO incompetence, corruption & mismanagement created the problem. There is zero question of that.

Second: The BS regarding the "starving" / "threatened" orcas is just that - BS. They are fluctuating within the ranges of their recognized population numbers since we started recording them in the '40's. It is a convenient excuse.

Third: Although the diminutive troll fleet has had it's share of the pie drastically reduced over time (last year appx 10% of the sports catch) and the recreational sector has taken many hits regarding slot limits and area closures, the FN's have been granted ever increasing openings on these same stocks. To the point that last season, they were afforded more openings on threatened or endangered classified runs than ever historically.

Fourth: DFO just announced a new component of their ministry titled "Reconciliation and Partnerships (R&P) Branch" complete with an RDG and support staff. You can likely guess where that is headed, but if in doubt, pm me & I will send you the background letter from DFO.

Fifth: ZERO consideration to the vast economic impacts coastwide of these measures. Guides. Lodges, in fact entire Communities are being paced at risk by these ill advised actions.

How much more should I go into the description of "draconian" do you require to get it?

The actions that are required are not Rocket Science. Habitat has to be improved on a huge scale. Predation by seals & sea lions HAS to be addressed (currently taking ~ 45 % of the annual production of Chinook annually), and stock enhancement has to be ramped up demonstrably.

Instead, DFO has slashed habitat programs, turned a complete blind eye to predation issues and continue on with blanket protection of the worst offenders, and slashed hatchery budgets to the bone.

Of course all of those efforts require funding & dedication. Something both DFO, and their political masters have little intestinal fortitude in addressing. FAR easier to shut down the fisheries (for some) and say "Hey Look, We're are doing something" - when in fact they are not.

Sadly,
Nog
WOW!!
Disturbingly all to familiar.😢
Looks like almost an exact carbon copy clone of DFO’s mismanagement of Atlantic Salmon on the east coast over the last 3-4 decades,to the point now that what few watersheds have any remaining salmon are now either completely closed to angling or if angling is allowed it’s zero retention......unless of course you are born with a certain privelaged pedigree,then you can string a gillnet across the Miramichi and illegally sell salmon off the back of your truck with impunity at the Blackville liquor store.
Ceremonial purposes redefined.....convert endangered salmon into beer money Friday afternoon and party all weekend.🖕
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  #143  
Old 07-05-2019, 12:33 PM
IronNoggin IronNoggin is offline
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Originally Posted by West O'5 View Post
Ceremonial purposes redefined.....convert endangered salmon into beer money Friday afternoon and party all weekend.🖕
Even under the current restrictions, that is openly and blatantly occurring:

Before the ad was pulled, it had over thousand hits and a hundred shares on 1 forum.
Likely seen by 10,000 people.
Now removed as one very similar was too:

"https://vancouver.craigslist.org/van...926013492.html

Fresh Frazer River Salmon - $20 (Hope B.C)
© craigslist - Map data © OpenStreetMap
(google map)

Hi there, we're happy to report we have fresh Spring Salmon available for sale by the pound @4.00 dollars per. SOCKEYE have arrived and are 20.00 dollars each. Text if possible or email.

show contact info
Ask for Chris or Ashley.

Let's make a deal. Larger orders can get a reduced price per fish
do NOT contact me with unsolicited services or offers
post id: 6926013492"
...........................................

FN openings were "supposed" to be "very restrictive in nature, and extremely limited as to number."
There have been over 50 DFO sanctioned in-river FN openings since the restrictions on Chinook were applied to every other sector.
Those openings occurred (and are occurring) on the most endangered runs of springs the Fraser has.

Very much a Tragedy, and one created directly by DFO catering to Blackmail Demands from the Fraser FN's.
There is some indication that the Minister may have been directed in these actions by the PMO.

MarkG: While I do applaud you attempting to define a solution, there is MUCH more at play here than a single cycle closure would turn around. I will get back to this thread and elaborate when I have a few minutes to do it some justice...

Nog
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  #144  
Old 07-06-2019, 06:26 AM
Jim Blake Jim Blake is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette View Post
If they ever respond it is a cookie cutter letter.

Thank you for your concerns and be assured we have your best interests in mind....
I finally got one of the cookie cutter versions. Disappointing.

I watching Wilkinson being interviewed on Power and Politics regarding the four whales killed in the St. Lawrence by vessel strikes. What a Dork!!!
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  #145  
Old 07-06-2019, 12:51 PM
IronNoggin IronNoggin is offline
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Government of Canada enters into Fraser Salmon Collaborative Management Agreement with 76 British Columbia First Nations

From: Fisheries and Oceans Canada

News release
July 5, 2019

Vancouver, British Columbia - There is no relationship more important to the Government of Canada than the one with Indigenous Peoples. Our government is committed to advancing a renewed relationship with Indigenous communities, based on the recognition of rights, respect, cooperation, and partnership. As part of this commitment, we are working to modernize and strengthen nation-to-nation, government-to-government structures, and to support a more collaborative approach to fisheries management by the Government of Canada and Indigenous Peoples.

British Columbia (BC) First Nations along the migratory route of Fraser salmon have a long standing and profound relationship with the Fraser salmon. The conservation and restoration of Fraser salmon today, and for generations to come, is the highest priority when we are making governance and management decisions about this species.

Today, the Minister of Fisheries, Oceans and the Canadian Coast Guard, the Honourable Jonathan Wilkinson, and Darren Haskell, President of the Fraser Salmon Management Council (FSMC), announced the signing of the Fraser Salmon Collaborative Management Agreement between Fisheries and Oceans Canada (DFO) and the FSMC.

This is a landmark agreement that signals a significant change and opportunity for meaningful and innovative reconciliation work between DFO and Indigenous communities. This creates a joint DFO-FSMC board that will review, and make collaborative decisions on operational fisheries issues, to be outlined in their annual work plan.

The Fraser Salmon Management Council was established by First Nations along the migratory route of Fraser salmon in March 2014, with the adoption of their constitution and bylaws. FSMC currently includes 76 member First Nations representing a majority of British Columbia (BC) First Nations with access to Fraser salmon fisheries. The Fraser Salmon Management Council membership includes First Nations along the migratory route of Fraser salmon, including the Upper, Middle and Lower Fraser and Marine Approach (Vancouver Island) areas.
..................................................


This is simply the next step in their reallocation without consultation nor compensation AGENDA.

Their end game is to have a full 50% "partner" with FN's, and any that are not are not welcome at the table, period.

This "agreement" effectively gives FN's Tier One Management decision making power equal to that of DFO.

Think about that for a moment...

The end is in sight if we allow these Complete Incompetents to win another election.
Remember in October!

Nog
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  #146  
Old 07-06-2019, 03:40 PM
IronNoggin IronNoggin is offline
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The Backgrounder which gives the FN's Tier One Management Status: https://frasersalmon.ca/files/2019/0...port-final.pdf

Celebrations have commenced the entire length of our Coast.
All Coastal FN's are dancing with joy. And they are all now demanding an "equal" position at the table.
And this government is poised to hand it to them.

For those having trouble understanding the implications:

DFO has always been THE ONLY Tier One Management Authority. Period.

They just handed 50 % of that over to FN's in all of the Fraser approach lanes.

Translation: NO management decision can be made without their explicit support.

No non-FN's need apply to be at the table - you are already supposedly represented by DFO.

Today is indeed a landmark day. For all the wrong reasons...

Sadly,
Nog
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  #147  
Old 07-07-2019, 08:25 AM
Big Grey Wolf Big Grey Wolf is offline
 
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Default salmon

Just need to get Japan to do some whaling along BC coast, problem solved our salmon will come back. PS Might help to blast the major rock slide blocking salmon on Fraser river as well.
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  #148  
Old 07-07-2019, 12:45 PM
IronNoggin IronNoggin is offline
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There are three segments of Jill Bennett's CKNW show that pertain to this matter:

Jason Benelli speaking in regard to the development of the situation, and the impacts on the recreational sector:

https://globalnews.ca/pages/audio-va...UiMt5k96Cwu3kc

Jason Tonelli - July 6, 8:00 am, 15:20 time stamp

Minster Wilkinson's response wherein he publicly and on record LIES about the FN openings in the Fraser - simply said there have been none. DFO's own website indicates 94 in river FN gillnet openings since the restrictions were imposed (representing an effort of 587 gillnet days).
In typical politico diversion, he also refuses to answer several of the pointed questions, and deflects to other topics (just like his boss).

https://globalnews.ca/pages/audio-va...UiMt5k96Cwu3kc

Wilkinson's Response: July 7, 7:00 am, 06:00 time stamp

Finally an open call-in session on the same topic:

https://globalnews.ca/pages/audio-va...UiMt5k96Cwu3kc

Call / write in: July 7, 8:00 am, 33:20 time stamp

Well Worth a listen if this subject is of interest.

Nog
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  #149  
Old 07-07-2019, 02:02 PM
IronNoggin IronNoggin is offline
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DFO's site actually provides proof of their own Minister's LIES:

https://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/...autoc-eng.html

https://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/f..._Previous.html

Disgusting.
Nog
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  #150  
Old 07-10-2019, 01:31 PM
IronNoggin IronNoggin is offline
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Open Letter from the Sport Fishing Institute (SFI) to Wilkinson:

https://mailchi.mp/8c7db2691b7e/sfi-...9?e=d242420a33

Pretty much nails it from the recreational aspect.

Cheers,
Nog
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