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  #121  
Old 09-05-2020, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by MountainTi View Post
I have no underlying health conditions. Out of a population of well over 4 million, 6 people without underlying health conditions have succumbed to the vid. I like my chances

Fall in line!
I’m falling in agreement with your take on this.
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  #122  
Old 09-06-2020, 09:55 AM
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No I’m asking an honest question from my outdoor enthusiast peers is all.

The chicken pox vaccine came out in 1984 and was 25 years in the making.
Myself, I’m uneasy about a fast tracked vaccine that could be commissioned in mere months. My question is honest and I’m being sincere. No baiting.
Good question.

With very limited resources...one guy isolated a strain of live attenuated varicella virus. Technology was very limited and it took a while to adapt it to guinea pigs and then human cultures.

Even with scientific knowledge being hugely inferior comparing 1965 to 2020...he was able to make the first vaccine in 5 years. In 1972...he was in trials.

Fast forward to 2020...and all the different labs working on the same vaccine goal and sharing data...and all the billions of dollars pouring into it..and all the massive leaps in technology and vaccine research....

Yup...fast tracking to 12-18 months is possible. It took him many, many years to just get a virus sample to research on. That came in days for Covid19 because of shared information and improved technology and know how.

It also helps to speed up when phase data one looks great and they continue to phase two by running both phase at the same time to finish getting all data. Then phase two looks great and they start phase three and run both together to get all data. Then phase three is looking great and the start phase 4. And so on.

What that means is all the data gets crunched. Nothing is missed.

I would say that the humans in phased trials are more at risk...however mitigated by scientific understanding of the information received by the prior trial and past knowledge of such processes.

The end result is the same vetted process to you or I getting a vaccine derived from said process.
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  #123  
Old 09-06-2020, 10:20 AM
muirsy muirsy is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Sundancefisher View Post

Fast forward to 2020...and all the different labs working on the same vaccine goal and sharing data...and all the billions of dollars pouring into it..and all the massive leaps in technology and vaccine research....
Absolutely!

This is going to change vaccines forever, much like the leaps and bounds in technology that followed WW2 - especially in aviation (think NASA).

Ultimately there will be an enormous net-positive to this whole thing in the years to come.

Personally I won't be rushing out right away to get it but more so because I'm healthy & not in a vulnerable group. Those people should get it first. Ultimately I will though.
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  #124  
Old 09-06-2020, 02:13 PM
Big Grey Wolf Big Grey Wolf is offline
 
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Most important point is who will get vaccine first. Health care workers, elderly, wealthy?? Been described like airplane emergency, when masks fall down.
Put on mask so you can help kids etc, or only those in first class will get masks.
Trump shared the N95 masks with us, no he restricted 3M from exporting contracted masks to Canada.
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  #125  
Old 09-06-2020, 02:23 PM
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i will be in no rush to get a Vaccine and if it is made mandatory I will be looking for the best human rights Lawyer around !
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  #126  
Old 09-06-2020, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Big Grey Wolf View Post
Most important point is who will get vaccine first. Health care workers, elderly, wealthy?? Been described like airplane emergency, when masks fall down.
Put on mask so you can help kids etc, or only those in first class will get masks.
Trump shared the N95 masks with us, no he restricted 3M from exporting contracted masks to Canada.
Health care workers will be the first to receive a vaccine when it becomes available.
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  #127  
Old 09-07-2020, 09:25 AM
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The odds of it becoming available to us are slim. If it passes trials, there isn't going to be sufficient quantities. Add in the lack of medical vials and the priority system... Not like America will share with anyone, nor will most other countries.

Besides that, I would if it makes it to me in the next decade. Overall that natural immunity thing will be the best option, as it will remove the elderly and the weak. Mother Nature is doing a cleansing that's over due. Save the CPP for us younger people by killing off the old farts, and free up space in the senior's homes. Enough cranky old people around that we can spare some of them, right?
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  #128  
Old 09-07-2020, 10:11 AM
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I am 82 next month, so you are saying, kill us off, OK. LOL. I am saying this in the way it was provided, OK!!! I mean nothing by it, but you are going to miss us when we are gone. LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! EH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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  #129  
Old 09-07-2020, 11:15 AM
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The odds of it becoming available to us are slim. If it passes trials, there isn't going to be sufficient quantities. Add in the lack of medical vials and the priority system... Not like America will share with anyone, nor will most other countries.

Besides that, I would if it makes it to me in the next decade. Overall that natural immunity thing will be the best option, as it will remove the elderly and the weak. Mother Nature is doing a cleansing that's over due. Save the CPP for us younger people by killing off the old farts, and free up space in the senior's homes. Enough cranky old people around that we can spare some of them, right?
Why don't you put an egg in your shoe and beat it?

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  #130  
Old 09-07-2020, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by MrDave View Post
The odds of it becoming available to us are slim. If it passes trials, there isn't going to be sufficient quantities. Add in the lack of medical vials and the priority system... Not like America will share with anyone, nor will most other countries.

Besides that, I would if it makes it to me in the next decade. Overall that natural immunity thing will be the best option, as it will remove the elderly and the weak. Mother Nature is doing a cleansing that's over due. Save the CPP for us younger people by killing off the old farts, and free up space in the senior's homes. Enough cranky old people around that we can spare some of them, right?
https://youtu.be/DwD7f5ZWhAk

I'm only 53, I don't think I'm going to jump either. This is not my sort of thing.....
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  #131  
Old 09-07-2020, 12:04 PM
K45 K45 is offline
 
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Not a chance - in my age bracket 2 have succumbed to Covid out of 4.5million ish people in Alberta. That if my maths correct is a 0.000047% chance of dying. Even if you are the average age Of Ab deaths of 83 That’s approx 0.005% chance of succumbing to Covid and how many that have passed A severe cold would or did take them out.

When the H1N1 scare was on my wife a 2 daughters took the vaccine
Up until then my wife very rarely got sick- right after receiving the vaccine my wife a daughter’s got extremely sick and continued to get sick for some time after, me no vaccine and not sick.....

How many people young and old have either taken there lives or had their financial positions ruined from this lock down? I’m thinking the true number would make you puke.

On the other side some families that don’t normally make much money they are enjoying the Cerb $$,s and would love to see the country stay locked down indefinitely.
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  #132  
Old 09-07-2020, 02:02 PM
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Not a chance - in my age bracket 2 have succumbed to Covid out of 4.5million ish people in Alberta. That if my maths correct is a 0.000047% chance of dying. Even if you are the average age Of Ab deaths of 83 That’s approx 0.005% chance of succumbing to Covid and how many that have passed A severe cold would or did take them out.

When the H1N1 scare was on my wife a 2 daughters took the vaccine
Up until then my wife very rarely got sick- right after receiving the vaccine my wife a daughter’s got extremely sick and continued to get sick for some time after, me no vaccine and not sick.....

How many people young and old have either taken there lives or had their financial positions ruined from this lock down? I’m thinking the true number would make you puke.

On the other side some families that don’t normally make much money they are enjoying the Cerb $$,s and would love to see the country stay locked down indefinitely.
Actually. If you want to use math it would be the number dead out of the number infected in your age bracket.

Social distancing and masks are preventing additional deaths...even in your age bracket.
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  #133  
Old 09-07-2020, 02:30 PM
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How many people have died "with" covid as opposed to "of" covid? Two very important little prepositions.

So much misinformation from all sources. Impossible to know who to trust. Understandable that many of us trust no one, anymore.
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  #134  
Old 09-07-2020, 02:37 PM
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How many people have died "with" covid as opposed to "of" covid? Two very important little prepositions.

So much misinformation from all sources. Impossible to know who to trust. Understandable that many of us trust no one, anymore.
Exactly. Can’t make a vaccine for influenza that works properly, can’t cure cancer but they can make a vaccine in 6 months for a virus they don’t understand. Laughable.....
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  #135  
Old 09-07-2020, 03:03 PM
HVA7mm HVA7mm is offline
 
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Originally Posted by MrDave View Post
The odds of it becoming available to us are slim. If it passes trials, there isn't going to be sufficient quantities. Add in the lack of medical vials and the priority system... Not like America will share with anyone, nor will most other countries.

Besides that, I would if it makes it to me in the next decade. Overall that natural immunity thing will be the best option, as it will remove the elderly and the weak. Mother Nature is doing a cleansing that's over due. Save the CPP for us younger people by killing off the old farts, and free up space in the senior's homes. Enough cranky old people around that we can spare some of them, right?

I can't tell if you are serious, but I'm not sure where your dislike of seniors stems from, or what you mean by saving CPP for "us younger people". You do realize that the money in the CPP was contributed by those who were/are working. This isn't a freebie, as people have been paying into it since 1965. It's no different than putting monthly contributions into a savings account, people are merely getting back some of the cash that they have contributed over their lifetime.

Your comment would be akin to somebody posting "Save the AISH money for those who are young, healthy and able to work. Let mother kill off the ones who can't/don't work and free up some cash for those who do." SMH.

And I'm a longs ways off from collecting.
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  #136  
Old 09-07-2020, 03:34 PM
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I can't tell if you are serious, but I'm not sure where your dislike of seniors stems from, or what you mean by saving CPP for "us younger people". You do realize that the money in the CPP was contributed by those who were/are working. This isn't a freebie, as people have been paying into it since 1965. It's no different than putting monthly contributions into a savings account, people are merely getting back some of the cash that they have contributed over their lifetime.

Your comment would be akin to somebody posting "Save the AISH money for those who are young, healthy and able to work. Let mother kill off the ones who can't/don't work and free up some cash for those who do." SMH.

And I'm a longs ways off from collecting.
Having read alot of his posts, I’m fairly certain he is being sarcastic lol
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  #137  
Old 09-07-2020, 03:48 PM
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Exactly. Can’t make a vaccine for influenza that works properly, can’t cure cancer but they can make a vaccine in 6 months for a virus they don’t understand. Laughable.....
You need a better basic understanding of the science behind your post.

Firstly some viruses change into new strains. In some cases the changes are significant enough to the virus design that you can’t find one weak spot to exploit because it will change by the time a vaccine is developed.

Cancer is not the same as a virus. In fact some viruses and bacteria may cause cancer. Cancer is a change to the DNA in your cells that cause rapid growth and replication.

Viruses are foreign bodies that invade your cells.

To compare curing cancer to finding a vaccine is disconcerting to think you are basing life choices on what you just don’t understand and at the same time spreading your misinformation online that could unfortunately sway others.

You posted early about the chicken pox vaccine and I explained that for your better understanding. You didn’t respond however I assume you gained some insight.

As there are key scientific understandings you lack I would suggest reading authentic sights that explain something better. I fear you are getting information from click bait sites, conspiracy pages and heresay from equally unknowledgeable people.
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  #138  
Old 09-07-2020, 04:05 PM
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How many people young and old have either taken there lives
There was an article at Reuters a few days ago: U.S. coronavirus deaths projected to more than double to 410,000 by January

You can read the whole thing, by here is a direct quote from the article:

Although U.S. infections have declined to around 45,000 per day from a peak of around 70,000 per day in July, COVID-19 was the second leading cause of death, the institute said. That would place it behind only heart disease, having surpassed cancer as a cause of death in the United States.

The second cause of death in the US. Probably has potential to become the first.

Also interesting in regards to their forecast, they have been on the low side from the beginning more often than not and that’s the reason Trump had cited this particular model in his “predictions”. For example, their forecast back in April-May for the total number of deaths that would be reached in August was met at the end of May or beginning of June, just under or over 100K (I don’t recall exactly). I don’t have a source for that but that was my personal observation. Also, think of it as that’s 100,000 just 3 months ago and they are currently close to a double of that number. The article mentions that the IHME model has usually been pretty conservative with its forecasts.

Also interesting that according to WHO, 290,000-650,000 die of flu-related causes every year worldwide (source, if interested). I highlighted “related” because I am assuming not all of them died directly from running nose, but probably of some complications that were caused by the influenza virus, perhaps due to preexisting conditions and whatnot.

If the forecast of the model materializes, the United States alone will have more Covid-related mortalities in 10-11 months than the whole world’s average flu-related deaths in a year. That’s with a few months’ worth of lockdown and, while pretty open now, life still not being back to “normal”. The numbers are pretty staggering.
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  #139  
Old 09-07-2020, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck View Post
https://youtu.be/DwD7f5ZWhAk

I'm only 53, I don't think I'm going to jump either. This is not my sort of thing.....
One of the most classic scenes in the series.
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  #140  
Old 09-07-2020, 04:23 PM
HVA7mm HVA7mm is offline
 
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Originally Posted by 1899b View Post
Having read alot of his posts, I’m fairly certain he is being sarcastic lol

Ha ha ha, ok. I'm surprised, usually I pick up on sarcasm a mile or two away, must be having an off day.
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  #141  
Old 09-07-2020, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Sundancefisher View Post
Actually. If you want to use math it would be the number dead out of the number infected in your age bracket.

Social distancing and masks are preventing additional deaths...even in your age bracket.
I've been noticing that many have been using interesting math for their arguments.
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  #142  
Old 09-07-2020, 09:44 PM
Flyer80 Flyer80 is offline
 
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Default Tough call

Tough call. Not feeling very comfortable with a vaccine being rushed so fast. It will be a tough call when it’s time. I’m not sure I would take it if it was available today.
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  #143  
Old 09-07-2020, 09:50 PM
Flyer80 Flyer80 is offline
 
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I've been noticing that many have been using interesting math for their arguments.
I particularly don’t like the math where the mortality rate is the total deaths over confirmed cases. There are a lot more actual COVID cases than the confirmed cases. And plenty of ways estimate the number of actual cases.
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  #144  
Old 09-07-2020, 10:10 PM
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I particularly don’t like the math where the mortality rate is the total deaths over confirmed cases. There are a lot more actual COVID cases than the confirmed cases. And plenty of ways estimate the number of actual cases.
And also people compare to only recorded flu cases. And there is already a vaccine for the worst flu.
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  #145  
Old 09-07-2020, 10:52 PM
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Nope, I don’t plan to. Most vaccines need years and years of trials. They’re ram tossing this thing through and I fear the cure will end up being worse than the illness to start. Given some time I probably still won’t get it but I’d the option i there for folks and it’s properly vetted.
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  #146  
Old 09-08-2020, 12:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Sundancefisher View Post
Actually. If you want to use math it would be the number dead out of the number infected in your age bracket.

Social distancing and masks are preventing additional deaths...even in your age bracket.
Nobody knows the number of infected in any age bracket.

As for the rest, got a link to proof of that? Or is that your opinion? lol

Fall in line
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  #147  
Old 09-08-2020, 12:06 AM
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I've been noticing that many have been using interesting math for their arguments.
6 people out of 4.5 million. What's your calculator tell you that percentage is?
Waiting....

Fall in line
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  #148  
Old 09-08-2020, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Sundancefisher View Post
You need a better basic understanding of the science behind your post.

Firstly some viruses change into new strains. In some cases the changes are significant enough to the virus design that you can’t find one weak spot to exploit because it will change by the time a vaccine is developed.

Cancer is not the same as a virus. In fact some viruses and bacteria may cause cancer. Cancer is a change to the DNA in your cells that cause rapid growth and replication.

Viruses are foreign bodies that invade your cells.

To compare curing cancer to finding a vaccine is disconcerting to think you are basing life choices on what you just don’t understand and at the same time spreading your misinformation online that could unfortunately sway others.

You posted early about the chicken pox vaccine and I explained that for your better understanding. You didn’t respond however I assume you gained some insight.

As there are key scientific understandings you lack I would suggest reading authentic sights that explain something better. I fear you are getting information from click bait sites, conspiracy pages and heresay from equally unknowledgeable people.
I understand the strain dealio. That’s why I never ran to get in line for the flu shot. How do they know from year to year which strain of flu will be prevalent? They never do so it’s pretty much a placebo make you feel good in your head kinda thing. Meh....
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  #149  
Old 09-08-2020, 08:21 AM
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I understand the strain dealio. That’s why I never ran to get in line for the flu shot. How do they know from year to year which strain of flu will be prevalent? They never do so it’s pretty much a placebo make you feel good in your head kinda thing. Meh....
Maybe you don’t. The strains are tracked and most deadly and common are made into vaccines.

Some people get a flu after a shot and think it didn’t work however may of missed getting the worse ones and instead only caught a mild one.

Some of the vaccines to date may of in fact had some similarities to Covid19 which allowed for some immune response. Studies are on going.

Needless to say however once again you are misinformed about vaccines.
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  #150  
Old 09-08-2020, 08:30 AM
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Nobody knows the number of infected in any age bracket.

As for the rest, got a link to proof of that? Or is that your opinion? lol

Fall in line
Yes,..yet sadly you won’t read it

Easy read one.

https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/41...-masks-prevent

Can we leave it to you to understand how social distancing prevents spread?

And you are very correct that everyday more is learned about Covid19 from long term lung and heart damage even in mild cases to treatments.

Some people make a permanent judgement opinion based upon a quote from January that was retracted after further evidence in April.

People will find conspiracy sites on use the quotes they like and never backtrack and instead double down.
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