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Old 04-15-2018, 07:48 AM
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trophyhunter trophyhunter is offline
 
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Default Fluorocarbon leaders

Hate to bring this up again but....for all you big pike guys, what is the minimum poundage you go to for fluorocarbon LEADER material? Quite a price difference between say #50 and #100. And which snaps/swivels have worked well for you?

Thanks in advance.


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  #2  
Old 04-15-2018, 08:10 AM
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I bought 60 pound a couple years ago and I personally think that it is overkill. It is not to easiest to tie knots with but I'm sure no pike will ever bite through it.
As for leaders and swivels, I think I just bought some ones that looked big enough haha never had one break yet.
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Old 04-15-2018, 08:20 AM
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I use 40lb and no issues thus far. And I’ve been using it for 8 seasons now.
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Old 04-15-2018, 08:58 AM
dustinjoels dustinjoels is offline
 
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I use either 80# or 100#. A leader will typically last me about a day of catching around 100 fish with multiple in the over 10 pound range. After a hard day like that the leader starts to get nicks in it so I change it out. You can tie longer leaders and just cut off the nicked up portion and retie or just cut of your swivel and snap and tie a new one. When reusing the terminal tackle it’s still super cheap to use fluorocarbon leaders even the 100# and even retying every day.

I have been using the quicktach snaps lately and like them quite a bit. I used the cross lock snaps for a few years. You’ll never lose a hook with a cross lock snap.
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Old 04-15-2018, 09:33 AM
MooseRiverTrapper MooseRiverTrapper is online now
 
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You guys are connecting with a barrel swivel rather then a knot?
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Old 04-15-2018, 09:51 AM
dustinjoels dustinjoels is offline
 
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I use a barrel snivel. I’m not to particular on the brand of swivel.

Also I forgot to mention above that I have tried the 50# and experienced the odd bite off.
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Old 04-15-2018, 10:12 AM
Dweb Dweb is offline
 
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If your going to use 100# test fluoro you my as well use steel
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Old 04-15-2018, 10:48 AM
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JohninAB JohninAB is offline
 
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I use maximum 50lb flourocarbon leader material but most times it is 25 to 30lb I am using. I worry with anything heavier than 50lb as I feel it may start to effect the action of the lure unless it is a substantial size lure.

I use 100 lb Berkley crosslock snap swivels on the 50lb leaders and 50lb range on the smaller weight leaders. They have never failed me yet.

Never had one of my flourocarbon leaders fail me yet. If i see knicks I cut and retie.
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Old 04-15-2018, 11:40 AM
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RavYak RavYak is offline
 
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I've had multiple bite offs on 20-25, I still use it when I am targeting walleye in pike infested waters though.

40 lb is rarely broken off in one bite but one bad bite is all it takes to mark it up to the point you need to change it. I don't like having to tie on a new leader multiple times in a day of fishing and I have lost fish with 40 lb from not changing it out regularly enough.

I gave up on fluoro because of that and use titanium leaders. They last for days if not weeks or even months.

I did pick up a roll of 60 lb fluoro to try this year although I doubt I will use it much. I think an invisible leader is important if you are going to use finesse tactics(like say in the winter hanging bait) but I rarely do that kind of stuff for pike. When using a rapala, spoon etc I don't think visibility of the leader is important at all. The pike are most often chasing from behind and they are so zoned in on the lure they will practically run into your boat, I doubt leader visibility has any affect in these situations and I have caught well over a thousand pike on titanium leaders now.

I know some guys use 80 and 100 lb but like John says I am sure it screws up the action of any smaller size lures which is what I am usually using for pike. This is the same reason I don't like steel leaders since they get kinked after the first fish and then screw up the lure action. If you are using musky size lures and fishing for big pike then 80-100 would probably be the way to go though.
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Old 04-15-2018, 12:32 PM
dustinjoels dustinjoels is offline
 
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All fair points Rav. Like anything it just comes down to personal preference between fluoro and titanium. I will never go back to steel because I hate the way they twist and kink.

My personal preference is the fluorocarbon over the titanium. I don’t mind retying once or twice a day, but I also don’t use many hooks under 3” when targeting pike in the summer. I usually tie about a dozen and then just tie a new one on when needed and save the nicked up ones in a bag and when I’m at home with nothing to do I’ll snip off the terminal tackle and tie another dozen. I also like handling the fluorocarbon. It’s easy on the hands if you grab it and easy on the fish when they roll.

If you are pitching smaller lures or you detest retying once or twice a day then by all means go with the titanium. The titanium is more versatile than the higher poundage fluorocarbon.

Whatever you choose, good luck.
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Old 04-15-2018, 01:00 PM
Asillywalrus Asillywalrus is offline
 
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I use 50# Berkley Vanish 100% Fluorocarbon Leader Material. If you're going to buy it make sure that the packaging says leader material and you aren't buying normal flouro, I find it makes a large difference. I haven't really broken off on 50# much, but am pretty religious about checking it for nicks and things like. I would say a leader lasts me about 100 fish on average, but it comes down to chance and how the fish takes the bait. Similar to Rayvak's experienc, I started with 30# and found I broke off far too much and decided to move up to 50#. I've only used it one season, but haven't had any issues thus far so I would recommend it over titanium. I find titanium doesn't last long enough to justify the price as well I prefer the invisibility (although I'm not sure that it actually matters).
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Old 04-15-2018, 02:11 PM
scel scel is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RavYak View Post
I've had multiple bite offs on 20-25, I still use it when I am targeting walleye in pike infested waters though.

40 lb is rarely broken off in one bite but one bad bite is all it takes to mark it up to the point you need to change it. I don't like having to tie on a new leader multiple times in a day of fishing and I have lost fish with 40 lb from not changing it out regularly enough.
We did some 'science' last spring on my northern SK trip with the same purpose---fishing for walleye in pike infested water.

Using 20lb fluoro seems to be a sweet spot for catching a maximum amount of walleye, but will definitely lose a couple lures to pike over the course of a couple weeks.

We broke two 40# leaders. One was a 'WTF just ate that' moment, but the other was 'I should really change my leader...bah, just one more cast' moment. 40# works in a pinch, but I would probably use something heavier if I were on a trophy hunt.
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Old 04-15-2018, 06:18 PM
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swampy45 swampy45 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dustinjoels View Post
I use either 80# or 100#. A leader will typically last me about a day of catching around 100 fish with multiple in the over 10 pound range. After a hard day like that the leader starts to get nicks in it so I change it out. You can tie longer leaders and just cut off the nicked up portion and retie or just cut of your swivel and snap and tie a new one. When reusing the terminal tackle it’s still super cheap to use fluorocarbon leaders even the 100# and even retying every day.

I have been using the quicktach snaps lately and like them quite a bit. I used the cross lock snaps for a few years. You’ll never lose a hook with a cross lock snap.
Ive lost PLENTY of hooks off cross locks...
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Old 04-15-2018, 07:32 PM
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RavYak RavYak is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swampy45 View Post
Ive lost PLENTY of hooks off cross locks...
Do you remember to close them?

As far as snaps are concerned cross loks are the best that I have tried. Duo locks and coastlocks are ok too but come open on accident more. I haven't tried the fastach clips although for the most part hear good things about them.

I primarily use the 60 lb size cross loks but will use 80 lb ones for targeting bigger fish. I really like the little 30 lbers for trout and for attaching pike flies. The main way that cross loks fail is from people over stressing the metal trying to get their lure on. If you bend the snap open more then what it naturally opens you just weakened it and more often then not at least in my case when you lose a lure it is because the cross lok broke in that spot due to previously being over stressed.

The biggest weakness of cross loks is that they can be tough to get on certain lures because of their shape.
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Old 04-15-2018, 10:28 PM
dustinjoels dustinjoels is offline
 
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I don’t think I’ve ever lost a lure using a cross lock.

I’ve lost two or three using the fastach. This happened when I was lazy and lifted little pike out of the water by the leader and they shook and somehow twisted the lure around the clip. Pretty rare though.

I’ve caught a few thousand fish over the last couple of years using leaders I made with cross lock and fastach snaps on fluorocarbon leader material. During that time I’ve maybe lost 6-7 lures due to the following:

-2 lost when little pike twisted out of the fastach. My fault for being lazy picking them up.
-2 fluorocarbon bite throughs on 50lb leaders
-2 breaks on 80-100 fluorocarbon when it was obviously nicked up and I ignored it. My fault.
-1 barrel swivel broke. Was using cheap swivels that weren’t rated high enough.
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Old 04-16-2018, 06:43 AM
GoneFishingEDM GoneFishingEDM is offline
 
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I picked up some of the 50# Berkley vanish florocarbon this winter and a crimper set. I made up a dozen leaders at different lengths. I'm using fastach with them. I'm curious to see how well they work.
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Old 04-16-2018, 09:25 AM
Lowrance Fishburn Lowrance Fishburn is offline
 
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40# for pike
12# flouro line, not leader material, but used as a leader off my main line when fishing for walleye. The main difference is sensitivity. Of course you will experience break offs when pike slice through it but depending how you are fishing, the 12# is not only more sensitive for you holding the rod to feel bites on the other end but when the fish bump a 60+# leader they feel it, its stiff, they know somethings up. When they hit 12# flouro line, its limp, more natural and they will come back and hit it again, even stubborn walleyes.
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Old 04-16-2018, 10:22 AM
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RavYak RavYak is offline
 
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Oh and here is something for the fluoro guys to chew on. I was told about this video recently but just thought to watch it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiQTvmM-1cY

Another interesting one

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41XV9bjSeTA
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Old 04-16-2018, 11:47 AM
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CMichaud CMichaud is offline
 
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Ravyak beat me to it! - delete

Last edited by CMichaud; 04-16-2018 at 11:55 AM. Reason: Ravyak beat me to it! - delete
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  #20  
Old 04-16-2018, 08:23 PM
dustinjoels dustinjoels is offline
 
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Well those videos were sure interesting.

I also watched his braid vs. mono video where the mono lasted much longer in the abrasion test. In real fishing application I know I break off way less using similar diameter braid in compared to mono (30lb to 8lb test). It would be interesting to see a similar test done on equal diameter mono/braid. If the mono still wins that test, I'd have to question the validity of the method.
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Old 04-16-2018, 09:56 PM
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EZM EZM is offline
 
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I use 40lb for a "general use" leader when targeting multi species but If I'm pulling big gear like 7"-10" cranks, in Pike infested water, 80 lb is the go to weight for me. A plug that big isn't effected as much with the thicker fluoro really.

My rigs are tied up one end with a ball bearing barrel swivel, and on the business end bearing swivel / cross locks.

I use the Berkley brand (weight rated) black swivel and can't imagine anything that would cause something rated for 200-300 lbs to EVER fail under normal use.

http://www.berkley-fishing.com/berkl...eviews#start=5

I have NEVER had a bite off or failure. Used the same leader for years and likely hundreds and hundreds if not thousands of pike on the same leader.

Use the right materials, and there are no issues.
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Old 04-17-2018, 06:44 AM
Bushleague Bushleague is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EZM View Post
I use 40lb for a "general use" leader when targeting multi species but If I'm pulling big gear like 7"-10" cranks, in Pike infested water, 80 lb is the go to weight for me. A plug that big isn't effected as much with the thicker fluoro really.

My rigs are tied up one end with a ball bearing barrel swivel, and on the business end bearing swivel / cross locks.

I use the Berkley brand (weight rated) black swivel and can't imagine anything that would cause something rated for 200-300 lbs to EVER fail under normal use.

http://www.berkley-fishing.com/berkl...eviews#start=5

I have NEVER had a bite off or failure. Used the same leader for years and likely hundreds and hundreds if not thousands of pike on the same leader.

Use the right materials, and there are no issues.

I've been using 80 lb and 50 lb mono LEADER MATERIAL this winter and have experienced no bite offs. Just like flouro, the line and leader stuff is completely different, and I've found the performance to be pretty similar but I find being able to use uni-knots more convenient.

Personally, I think if you have quality snap swivels failing its because your main line is too heavy. I use 15- 25 lb line max and have never had any decent snap, or other hardware fail. Once you're main line is no longer the weak link, you're going to find one elsewhere.... snaps, swivels, split rings, hooks and lures.
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  #23  
Old 04-17-2018, 09:08 AM
Pikebreath Pikebreath is offline
 
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Snaps often fail cuz they open when you twist the hook out of a pike,,, and you do not notice that the clasp is open,,, and you continue fishing.
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Old 04-17-2018, 09:24 AM
Lowrance Fishburn Lowrance Fishburn is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pikebreath View Post
Snaps often fail cuz they open when you twist the hook out of a pike,,, and you do not notice that the clasp is open,,, and you continue fishing.
While I am fully aware the multitude of things that happen when fishing and while taking the hook out, twisting the hook out is rarely required. Snap swivels can open as things do happen, and im sure you probably know this already, but grabbing the hook, whether treble or single by the shank and pushing it out in the same direction it went in is much more efficient. If fishing with de-barbed hooks there shouldnt be much reason to twist. Easier on the fish and on your gear. Cheers.
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Old 04-17-2018, 09:49 AM
Pikebreath Pikebreath is offline
 
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Heavy flouro or mono leaders should be pre-straightened before you use them. (I use 60 - 80 lb) Not all monos and flouros are created equal, some brands are definitely harder than others and that's what you should use. For mono, it's hard to find harder than Mason hard mono,,, and for flouro, seaguar "blue label" has a harder finish than many other flouros.

I make my own, I precut the leader material into two foot lengths and slip into a 2 foot tube of 1/2" diameter threaded pvc conduit. I pour boiling hot water into the tube, seal it, and leave for a few minutes. When you pull out the leader material, it will be perfectly straight now.

I crimp the ends rather than tie them, much easier than knotting. The business end is a snap plus small swivel. I simply loop the other end that attaches to my main line. I also put a small surgeons loop in the main line and the leader is attached by a loop to loop connection, facilitating easy and quick leader changes on the water.

If you can remember to check for open snaps and leader nicks (change out leader right away if nicked) you can save a lot more lures ,,, but even at that, venus and mars and the pike's teeth can still occasionally align themselves just so,,, and you will get the odd bite off.

That said I have also seen wire fail (often at the knot / crimp),,,, and 20 - 30 lb multistrand can even be bit through when all nine planets align just so!!!

Just the same,, wire is still tougher,,, but I hate kinked leaders,,, so I prefer flouro.
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Old 04-17-2018, 10:21 AM
Pikebreath Pikebreath is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RavYak View Post
Oh and here is something for the fluoro guys to chew on. I was told about this video recently but just thought to watch it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiQTvmM-1cY

Another interesting one

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41XV9bjSeTA
The biggest real difference between mono and fluoro is refractive index , not abrasion resistance, (even though fluoro manufacturers would like you to think fluoro is more abrasion resistant). Fluoro has a refractive index that is closer to water than mono does.

Water has a refractive index of 1.3330, fluorocarbon has an index of 1.42
and nylon monofilaments tend to range from 1.53-1.62.

What that translates to is in clear water under bright sunny conditions,,, flouro will be a bit harder to see than mono underwater. When you are dealing with thick leader materials, a heavy mono leader can be lit up like a star wars light sabre. The flouro leader will not be as bright.

Does this make a difference to pike? Given that they will still hit a bright flashy kinked silver steel leader,,, probably not!!!

Does it make a difference to me, the angler with OCD tendencies?? Yea, it does, so I use flouro.
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