Low success rates for elk in 406

[Jutang243]

Anyone have any idea why there are such low success rates in 406 for elk? Over the last few years it seems to hover around the 4%-7% range.

Also, buddy says theres tons of grizzlies. True or False?

[hawken]

Finding a 6 point bull in 406 or any mountain zone is difficult. It’s not impossible. It took me four attempts at drawing a tag to get one. In the high country there is lots of grizzlies so if you down an elk be prepared to get it out right away.

[st99]

All the 400's WMU have tons of grizz and low ungulate density. It's been going on for 25 yrs and there's no light at the end of the tunnel.

[LKILR]

Most hunters don’t have the resources to reach the areas that hold elk. I took one in 406 in 2018. My first attempt. Had a camp set up 14km from the road and I hunted total of 14 days before I even spotted one. Also I had information from a friend who’s hunted in there for 20 years. It’s a tough go for sure.

[buckman]

Originally Posted by Jutang243

Anyone have any idea why there are such low success rates in 406 for elk? Over the last few years it seems to hover around the 4%-7% range.

Also, buddy says theres tons of grizzlies. True or False?

In the six point zones any success is an achievement. The Elk numbers in 406 are a fraction of what they were 20/30 years ago. I used to hunt them within a kilometer of the road sometimes even closer.
Most if not all of those herds are gone.
I only know of a couple of pockets that on occasion hold Elk for a day hunt now.

The area of 406 south and west of Turner Valley has long since been almost impossible to access through the private land. It was a great spot back in the 80s.

As for Grizzlies yes there are a good number,the wolves probably take more of the Elk though.

Its a friggin shame because its perfect Elk habitat.

[TangoKilo]

Like everyone else has covered, there are a number of reasons for the low Elk success in 406.

High numbers of users... Not just hunters.
Difficult terrain.
High bear numbers
Low elk density

Just to name a few...

[dalewig]

Looking at 2019 hunter harvest report that just came out , shows a total of 13 bulls taken from units 404/406/408 combined , versus 181 from unit 312. Shows the idea of a mountain elk is definitely a tough one !!

[hawken]

But when you do connect in the mountains, there is no better feeling.

[Bikramithind]

404 .


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[Ranger CS]

I started hunting 406 in the early seventies. We used horses, packed in, lived in camps. We harvested not only several nice bull elk but also some very impressive mountain mule deer and the occasional moose. Back then the trails were few and far between and you had to know where they were and how to use them. Then came K Country.
For us it was the beginning of the end. Our government opened up new trails, marked and signed the trails, built equestrian facilities everywhere, included large elaborate staging facilities at trail heads and even flew portable toilets into the back country where more equestrian facilities were built. This changed everything. Prior to K Country we seldom saw other hunters and ones we did see knew what they were doing and knew the country. K Country was designed to encourage more back country use by more Albertan's and it certainly did that. Within a few years the areas we hunted were overrun by hunters that followed the well established and maintained trails. In addition local outfitters started using the area more and more as they could now bring in there big base camps using teams and wagons on the trails that were previously accessible only by riding horses. Shortly thereafter, came the bicycle hunters again using trails that had previously not existed. It didn't take many years for the quality of hunting to decline drastically as the numbers of hunters continued to increase.
It didn't take many years before we made a decision to no longer hunt there as the quality of the experience and our success harvesting fine elk and mule deer was gone. I consider myself, my wife and hunting buddies to be very fortunate to have had the opportunity to experience 406 back in the day when it was truly an amazingly great and wonderful place to hunt and spend time. I have many fond memories of those good old days.

[Jutang243]

Interesting insight here ladies and gents. Thanks.

I have a friend who lives in 312 only a couple of miles form 406. He invited me up there for a September bow hunt. Has been scouting a little bit here and there in 406 and a tad bit in 408. We're mainly going to 406 because he lives next to it and 312 is tough to get permission on and it seems all the gazing leases we could get permission on are hunted pretty hard by just about everyone else.

I suggested that we should camp out even though he lives pretty close by. Just to save us some walking and that would give us a chance to hear the bugles at night which would help locate them early in the morning. Good or bad idea?

How necessary are horses? We both have horses that could do the trick. I think they would be indispensable if we got one down. He seems to think foot hunting is the way to go. Thoughts?

How many hunters do people usually encounter in 406? And do they get off the roads (seems like there's quite a few roads in there, on the north end especially)?

Thanks for the help.

[buckman]

Originally Posted by Ranger CS

I started hunting 406 in the early seventies. We used horses, packed in, lived in camps. We harvested not only several nice bull elk but also some very impressive mountain mule deer and the occasional moose. Back then the trails were few and far between and you had to know where they were and how to use them. Then came K Country.
For us it was the beginning of the end. Our government opened up new trails, marked and signed the trails, built equestrian facilities everywhere, included large elaborate staging facilities at trail heads and even flew portable toilets into the back country where more equestrian facilities were built. This changed everything. Prior to K Country we seldom saw other hunters and ones we did see knew what they were doing and knew the country. K Country was designed to encourage more back country use by more Albertan's and it certainly did that. Within a few years the areas we hunted were overrun by hunters that followed the well established and maintained trails. In addition local outfitters started using the area more and more as they could now bring in there big base camps using teams and wagons on the trails that were previously accessible only by riding horses. Shortly thereafter, came the bicycle hunters again using trails that had previously not existed. It didn't take many years for the quality of hunting to decline drastically as the numbers of hunters continued to increase.
It didn't take many years before we made a decision to no longer hunt there as the quality of the experience and our success harvesting fine elk and mule deer was gone. I consider myself, my wife and hunting buddies to be very fortunate to have had the opportunity to experience 406 back in the day when it was truly an amazingly great and wonderful place to hunt and spend time. I have many fond memories of those good old days.

Loved your post. I only caught the tail end of those days.

[dalewig]

The very south portion of 406 could be worth looking at , have seen elk in the vicinity before. You can access it via the flat creek road , good trail I’ve biked before , though I think it is about 8 or more Kms before you are out of 312 and into 406

[Ranger CS]

Originally Posted by buckman

Loved your post. I only caught the tail end of those days.

Curious, when did you hunt there?

[buckman]

Originally Posted by Ranger CS

Curious, when did you hunt there?

1980s just after they "Improved/paved" 66. The Elk were closer to the road then as you know.

[Big Grey Wolf]

Only 8 Bull elk taken in WMU 406 last fall.

[Deer Hunter]

Originally Posted by Big Grey Wolf

Only 8 Bull elk taken in WMU 406 last fall.

It's a very small wmu.

[Grizzly Adams]

Originally Posted by dalewig

Looking at 2019 hunter harvest report that just came out , shows a total of 13 bulls taken from units 404/406/408 combined , versus 181 from unit 312. Shows the idea of a mountain elk is definitely a tough one !!

Elk were originally a prairie animal, they've figured out it's a way easier place to make a living. We're fighting them off with a stick around here.

Grizz

[dalewig]

Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams

Elk were originally a prairie animal, they've figured out it's a way easier place to make a living. We're fighting them off with a stick around here.

Grizz

Good point , would love do more of a prairie elk hunt someday !

I’m originally from sw sask , and seen pics of some really nice prairie bulls taken near grasslands national park , seems they are doing well there to

[cdales]

I almost had a chance at a 6point in archery season. He just wouldn't come out from his cows in the thick stuff.

Called in a couple spikers. Almost had one run me over.

Lots of 5 point bulls I would see and have on camera.

If you have time you'll get one (2-3 weeks) x a few seasons.. but need to scout and yes came across more grizz tracks than elk tracks.

[Pekan]

If I had to guess it comes down to predator/hunter pressure. Lots of the 314, 312, 310 units have limited access through GLs and private. Plus way better habitat. Everyone and their friend can go out to 406 and hunt the elk during pre-rut. Haven't seen/heard too many wolves in 406, but 404 and 402 yeah.

Maybe the general archery tag should be kaiboshed?

I think the record antlered elk for Alberta in 2017 was taken out of 406. Horse hunter. A guy who used to work for Aheia. He told me that non horsemen can't get back far enough to hunt elk in 406. I got the impression they are up fairly high....

Either way, it's a great area and hunting the mountains is a great experience.

[saddleup]

Originally Posted by Ranger CS

I started hunting 406 in the early seventies. We used horses, packed in, lived in camps. We harvested not only several nice bull elk but also some very impressive mountain mule deer and the occasional moose. Back then the trails were few and far between and you had to know where they were and how to use them. Then came K Country.
For us it was the beginning of the end. Our government opened up new trails, marked and signed the trails, built equestrian facilities everywhere, included large elaborate staging facilities at trail heads and even flew portable toilets into the back country where more equestrian facilities were built. This changed everything. Prior to K Country we seldom saw other hunters and ones we did see knew what they were doing and knew the country. K Country was designed to encourage more back country use by more Albertan's and it certainly did that. Within a few years the areas we hunted were overrun by hunters that followed the well established and maintained trails. In addition local outfitters started using the area more and more as they could now bring in there big base camps using teams and wagons on the trails that were previously accessible only by riding horses. Shortly thereafter, came the bicycle hunters again using trails that had previously not existed. It didn't take many years for the quality of hunting to decline drastically as the numbers of hunters continued to increase.
It didn't take many years before we made a decision to no longer hunt there as the quality of the experience and our success harvesting fine elk and mule deer was gone. I consider myself, my wife and hunting buddies to be very fortunate to have had the opportunity to experience 406 back in the day when it was truly an amazingly great and wonderful place to hunt and spend time. I have many fond memories of those good old days.

i hunted 406 in the late 60s and thru the 70s like you. i totally agree with your post. I too, have just fond memories of the good old days. The problem was the motorization of the mid 70s....

[matt1984]

Originally Posted by Pekan

Maybe the general archery tag should be kaiboshed?

How many bulls do you think are being killed in the general archery season? I would guess it is in the single digits, max. I think hunter success is the last thing effecting populations in 406. As mentioned, the predators is probably the number one issue with almost all of the mountain zones. I don't know where you hunt 406, but where I do, it is crawling with wolves, as well as the other big predators.

[Pekan]

Originally Posted by matt1984

How many bulls do you think are being killed in the general archery season? I would guess it is in the single digits, max. I think hunter success is the last thing effecting populations in 406. As mentioned, the predators is probably the number one issue with almost all of the mountain zones. I don't know where you hunt 406, but where I do, it is crawling with wolves, as well as the other big predators.

Yeah, I don't mean the archery hunt is killing lost of bulls, but the opportunity to hunt anything on a general tag must have an influence in terms of pressure.

It was 2016,17 when I spent the most time in 406. Since then it's mostly during the archery season (general tag, close to home, day hunts)

Heard daytime howling once, which sounded to me and friends like a pack chasing some elk and we all agreed it sounded like they got one. It was the craziest sounds of howling, cackling, evil sounding. (north of Cox mtn area)
So for sure there's wolves, but why would wolves stay in 406 to hunt elk when the huge elk herds are now in 312, 212?
It makes sense to me that the wolves will be where the elk are.

I did see a pile of blackbears in that unit in early Sept. Plus grizzly sign.
I wonder how many calves get eaten by bears in July? Lots i bet.

[Pekan]

Originally Posted by matt1984

How many bulls do you think are being killed in the general archery season? I would guess it is in the single digits, max. I think hunter success is the last thing effecting populations in 406. As mentioned, the predators is probably the number one issue with almost all of the mountain zones. I don't know where you hunt 406, but where I do, it is crawling with wolves, as well as the other big predators.

Yeah, I don't mean the archery hunt is killing lost of bulls, but the opportunity to hunt anything on a general tag must have an influence in terms of pressure.

It was 2016,17 when I spent the most time in 406. Since then it's mostly during the archery season (general tag, close to home, day hunts)

Heard daytime howling once, which sounded to me and friends like a pack chasing some elk and we all agreed it sounded like they got one. It was the craziest sounds of howling, cackling, evil sounding. (north of Cox mtn area)
So for sure there's wolves, but why would wolves stay in 406 to hunt elk when the huge elk herds are now in 312, 212?
It makes sense to me that the wolves will be where the elk are.

I did see a pile of blackbears in that unit in early Sept. Plus grizzly sign.
I wonder how many calves get eaten by bears in July? Lots i bet.

[Big Grey Wolf]

One grizz ate 40+ calves in one spring season.

[matt1984]

Originally Posted by Pekan

Yeah, I don't mean the archery hunt is killing lost of bulls, but the opportunity to hunt anything on a general tag must have an influence in terms of pressure.

I'd say the amount of hikers,bikers, quads,fisherman, logging, 4x4'ing etc well out number the bowhunters out there. In my opinion killing the general archery tags would not help the hunting in there one bit.

[Abe89]

Listened to hunters collective podcast a while back, episode 79, interview with Dr. Valerius Geist, used to teach in Calgary (highly recommended listen)....his take was wolves are a lawn mower, they chew through everything, plants grow taller with less grazing which bears like, and they eat the fawns and keep population low long after the wolves. He mentions studying wildlife in an area that he describes as a Serengeti, animals everywhere, because wolf populations were kept in check by trappers, natives, etc. Wolf populations rebounded there and he went back through a few years later, spent a good many days, barely saw a thing. He figures because of Canadas lack of aggressive predator management we are really in trouble with our populations.


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[st99]

Originally Posted by Abe89

Listened to hunters collective podcast a while back, episode 79, interview with Dr. Valerius Geist, used to teach in Calgary (highly recommended listen)....his take was wolves are a lawn mower, they chew through everything, plants grow taller with less grazing which bears like, and they eat the fawns and keep population low long after the wolves. He mentions studying wildlife in an area that he describes as a Serengeti, animals everywhere, because wolf populations were kept in check by trappers, natives, etc. Wolf populations rebounded there and he went back through a few years later, spent a good many days, barely saw a thing. He figures because of Canadas lack of aggressive predator management we are really in trouble with our populations.


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He calls it the predator pit. Wolves drop ungulate population to a minimum and bears keep it low. It can last decades or even centuries until decease or other major event takes care of the bears and wolves. We could do it, but our biologist don't want the backlash from the city crowd.

[Headdamage]

In 2018 I watched a nice bachelor heard of 5, 6, and a 7 point in 406 all summer. Come fall a pack of wolves came through the area and I didn't see them again. Spring of 2019 I did find a 5 point that was frozen into a creek, few hundred meters from a road, also found the remains of two moose in the same area. I've fairly sure as was Fish and Wildlife that they where likely the victims of road wolves. I have also seen a major increase in native road hunting on the locked up oil roads in the area. Watched one pickup slowly cruising on the Oil road that is accessed by a locked gate to access the North side of Moose Mountain. Rifle sticking out of the passenger window and a few guys with rifles in the bed of the truck. Fish and wildlife wanted nothing to do with it once I described the appearance of the occupants.