Carrying of sidearms

[Immigrant]

Originally Posted by hillbillyreefer

That is the biggest pile of BS I've ever read on here.

Here is your homework assignment. Find examples of legal carry permit holders in the states doing ridiculous crap your spouting about. There are about 8million CCW holders in the States. By your reasoning there must be what, a couple hundred thousand shootings per day?

I will give you examples of the "ridiculous crap" he is spouting about!!
A friend, farther of three, was involved in a fender bender. He was hit from behind whilst waiting at a traffic light. Things get heated and he is shot 9 times by the lawyer that drove in to him.
My wife and I are getting in to my truck after supper at my parents. I see a person walking up the driveway pointing a gun. I am packing as well. Do i pull my gun or do I get my wife and parents back in to the house without a shootout. I made the right decision by not pulling my gun and herding the family back in to the house. They were not after my truck. They wanted in to the house because they left the truck idling in the driveway. If i pulled my gun a family member would have got hurt.
My cousin is drawing money at the ATM. He is focusing on the ATM. He is packing as well. They wait till it spits out the money and he gets shot 3 times in the stomach. They take his gun and his cash
My father gets woken up with a 9mm pistol shoved in his mouth. He had no time to reach for a gun. There are 7 guys standing in his bedroom with guns and knives. They hold up him, my mother and my sister for 8 hours in their home. All the whilst holding a gun to my 2 hear old nieces head so they don't think of doing anything "funny". They also threaten to rape my mother and sister
We are having a BBQ at a friends house with family friends and kids. 3 of us are packing. 4 guys jump over the fence, grab the closest child and puts a gun to his head. We all do what they say. No way we are pulling our guns. We are trained to shoot straight but they are not.

I have a few more examples if you want. But this is a good start. Fortunately Canada is a democracy. We all have certain rights and freedoms. I have the right to live in a peaceful society free from fear and intimidation. You may have the "right to choose to carry" but you will lose a few other "rights" if open carry by the general public is legalized

[expmler]

Originally Posted by javlin101

unsafe as per what?

You stated that a segment of society carrying handguns does not make you feel safe.

Does that mean you would feel it was unsafe to do what you do now if that segment was carrying handguns?

[javlin101]

Originally Posted by Immigrant

I will give you examples of the "ridiculous crap" he is spouting about!!
A friend, farther of three, was involved in a fender bender. He was hit from behind whilst waiting at a traffic light. Things get heated and he is shot 9 times by the lawyer that drove in to him.
My wife and I are getting in to my truck after supper at my parents. I see a person walking up the driveway pointing a gun. I am packing as well. Do i pull my gun or do I get my wife and parents back in to the house without a shootout. I made the right decision by not pulling my gun and herding the family back in to the house. They were not after my truck. They wanted in to the house because they left the truck idling in the driveway. If i pulled my gun a family member would have got hurt.
My cousin is drawing money at the ATM. He is focusing on the ATM. He is packing as well. They wait till it spits out the money and he gets shot 3 times in the stomach. They take his gun and his cash
My father gets woken up with a 9mm pistol shoved in his mouth. He had no time to reach for a gun. There are 7 guys standing in his bedroom with guns and knives. They hold up him, my mother and my sister for 8 hours in their home. All the whilst holding a gun to my 2 hear old nieces head so they don't think of doing anything "funny". They also threaten to rape my mother and sister
We are having a BBQ at a friends house with family friends and kids. 3 of us are packing. 4 guys jump over the fence, grab the closest child and puts a gun to his head. We all do what they say. No way we are pulling our guns. We are trained to shoot straight but they are not.

I have a few more examples if you want. But this is a good start. Fortunately Canada is a democracy. We all have certain rights and freedoms. I have the right to live in a peaceful society free from fear and intimidation. You may have the "right to choose to carry" but you will lose a few other "rights" if open carry by the general public is legalized

WOW!!!! that's all I got to say!

[elkhunter11]

I have the right to live in a peaceful society free from fear and intimidation.

Then what about;

A friend, farther of three, was involved in a fender bender. He was hit from behind whilst waiting at a traffic light. Things get heated and he is shot 9 times by the lawyer that drove in to him.
My wife and I are getting in to my truck after supper at my parents. I see a person walking up the driveway pointing a gun. I am packing as well. Do i pull my gun or do I get my wife and parents back in to the house without a shootout. I made the right decision by not pulling my gun and herding the family back in to the house. They were not after my truck. They wanted in to the house because they left the truck idling in the driveway. If i pulled my gun a family member would have got hurt.
My cousin is drawing money at the ATM. He is focusing on the ATM. He is packing as well. They wait till it spits out the money and he gets shot 3 times in the stomach. They take his gun and his cash
My father gets woken up with a 9mm pistol shoved in his mouth. He had no time to reach for a gun. There are 7 guys standing in his bedroom with guns and knives. They hold up him, my mother and my sister for 8 hours in their home. All the whilst holding a gun to my 2 hear old nieces head so they don't think of doing anything "funny". They also threaten to rape my mother and sister
We are having a BBQ at a friends house with family friends and kids. 3 of us are packing. 4 guys jump over the fence, grab the closest child and puts a gun to his head. We all do what they say. No way we are pulling our guns. We are trained to shoot straight but they are not.

If you are living in fear of those examples coming true, then you are living in the wrong place.

[expmler]

Originally Posted by javlin101

So the answer is have more stones flying around to harm more people, don't understand your comment?

You stated that there are victims now and there always will be whether we are allowed to carry or not would make no difference.

You obviously think it would increase the amount of victims which is why you oppose it.

[Immigrant]

Originally Posted by javlin101

WOW!!!! that's all I got to say!

I forgot to mention the are on average 60,000 rapes and 16,000 murders per year in the "old country" where the public are allowed to carry a handgun.

[javlin101]

Originally Posted by expmler

You stated that a segment of society carrying handguns does not make you feel safe.

Does that mean you would feel it was unsafe to do what you do now if that segment was carrying handguns?

First you say a segment well if legalized it won't be a segment it will be whoever can qualify for carry, yes that makes me nerves. Maybe you see it as responsible outdoors men or hunters as perhaps yourself will be carrying. Not so anyone who can pass the certification will be able to carry. No thanks.

[expmler]

Originally Posted by javlin101

Yup! so depending on the reason your comment is vague.

A right cannot be legislated away. You say you have the right to your opinion, would that still be a right if the gov't jailed you for stating that opinion?

[twofifty]

Originally Posted by javlin101

Nope, have protected myself and family for 56 years, learned when to stand up and when to walk away. Use your head avoid trouble, has worked for me. Is this hard to understand. Look I am not against the right to carry in reasonable circumstances. Just do not want to know if I am out grocery shopping that if someone robs the store let them have the cash, the last thing i Need is a bunch of good doers pulling side arms and let lead fly. Is that such a bad belief.

The grocery store heist you mention is something I have personal experience in.

I had just paid for my purchases when 2 masked guys walk in armed with a revolver and shotgun. They went till to till and brushed right past me and my kid. I've never felt so helpless before or since.

Before the thieves made it to us, we had time to make 2 plans.
One that involved staying put like good sheep so long as no shots were fired. The other, if shots were fired, was to run diagonally away from where they were, toward the closest cover and then to the rear of the store where surely an exit would be found.

I soon determined, from their calm behaviour (they were not freaked out) that this was just a regular business day for these two, so shooting folk was not likely an end play. The next thought was my hope the store was full of sheep rather than action-hero pack boys.

The very last thing I wanted was for the police to pull up in their cruisers...which would have set us up for a hostage taking party.

Had I been able to CC, our plans wouldn't have been any different, except that we would have had a viable option had those two pursued us to the back of the store (where the back stock and the emergency exit doors are - if they aren't chained shut that is).

If the cops had showed up and I had been armed we would not have stayed for the hostage party - the cop's arrival would have provided these two with plenty of distractions, and us with perhaps just enough time to get to cover and then exit the back of the store.

Having options is a good thing in my books.

[javlin101]

Originally Posted by expmler

You stated that there are victims now and there always will be whether we are allowed to carry or not would make no difference.

You obviously think it would increase the amount of victims which is why you oppose it.

There has been victims everywhere in this world and always will be and this includes places where you can carry or not. Why would the right to carry change this here in Canada? If your a person that hunts, likes to shoot, etc and know the dangers of firearms want to make it even easier for the general public to carry???????

[javlin101]

Originally Posted by expmler

A right cannot be legislated away. You say you have the right to your opinion, would that still be a right if the gov't jailed you for stating that opinion?

We are not living in Russia, we have the freedom of speech here.

[expmler]

Originally Posted by Immigrant

I will give you examples of the "ridiculous crap" he is spouting about!!
A friend, farther of three, was involved in a fender bender. He was hit from behind whilst waiting at a traffic light. Things get heated and he is shot 9 times by the lawyer that drove in to him.
My wife and I are getting in to my truck after supper at my parents. I see a person walking up the driveway pointing a gun. I am packing as well. Do i pull my gun or do I get my wife and parents back in to the house without a shootout. I made the right decision by not pulling my gun and herding the family back in to the house. They were not after my truck. They wanted in to the house because they left the truck idling in the driveway. If i pulled my gun a family member would have got hurt.
My cousin is drawing money at the ATM. He is focusing on the ATM. He is packing as well. They wait till it spits out the money and he gets shot 3 times in the stomach. They take his gun and his cash
My father gets woken up with a 9mm pistol shoved in his mouth. He had no time to reach for a gun. There are 7 guys standing in his bedroom with guns and knives. They hold up him, my mother and my sister for 8 hours in their home. All the whilst holding a gun to my 2 hear old nieces head so they don't think of doing anything "funny". They also threaten to rape my mother and sister
We are having a BBQ at a friends house with family friends and kids. 3 of us are packing. 4 guys jump over the fence, grab the closest child and puts a gun to his head. We all do what they say. No way we are pulling our guns. We are trained to shoot straight but they are not.

I have a few more examples if you want. But this is a good start. Fortunately Canada is a democracy. We all have certain rights and freedoms. I have the right to live in a peaceful society free from fear and intimidation. You may have the "right to choose to carry" but you will lose a few other "rights" if open carry by the general public is legalized

So tell me, why did you carry a firearm? You seemed not to need one.

[expmler]

Originally Posted by javlin101

We are not living in Russia, we have the freedom of speech here.

Correct you have the "RIGHT" to freedom of speech here. The same cannot be said for firearm ownership.

Get it now?

[javlin101]

Originally Posted by twofifty

The grocery store heist you mention is something I have personal experience in.

I had just paid for my purchases when 2 masked guys walk in armed with a revolver and shotgun. They went till to till and brushed right past me and my kid. I've never felt so helpless before or since.

Before the thieves made it to us, we had time to make 2 plans.
One that involved staying put like good sheep so long as no shots were fired. The other, if shots were fired, was to run diagonally away from where they were, toward the closest cover and then to the rear of the store where surely an exit would be found.

I soon determined, from their calm behaviour (they were not freaked out) that this was just a regular business day for these two, so shooting folk was not likely an end play. The next thought was my hope the store was full of sheep rather than action-hero pack boys.

The very last thing I wanted was for the police to pull up in their cruisers...which would have set us up for a hostage taking party.

Had I been able to CC, our plans wouldn't have been any different, except that we would have had a viable option had those two pursued us to the back of the store (where the back stock and the emergency exit doors are - if they aren't chained shut that is).

If the cops had showed up and I had been armed we would not have stayed for the hostage party - the cop's arrival would have provided these two with plenty of distractions, and us with perhaps just enough time to get to cover and then exit the back of the store.

Having options is a good thing in my books.

You handle yourself very well and did the right thing. If someone near you was armed and decided to act they become a threat to them, Now it becomes a shoot out with you & your son in the middle. there is always(hopefully options).

[javlin101]

Originally Posted by expmler

Correct you have the "RIGHT" to freedom of speech here. The same cannot be said for firearm ownership.

Get it now?

you have the right within the regulations.

you get it now?

[twofifty]

Originally Posted by javlin101

There has been victims everywhere in this world and always will be and this includes places where you can carry or not. Why would the right to carry change this here in Canada? If your a person that hunts, likes to shoot, etc and know the dangers of firearms want to make it even easier for the general public to carry???????

I've been all over the US on numerous trips to areas (urban and country) where the general public's right to carry (open and/or cc) is part of day-to-day life. The presence of armed folk in close proximity never felt threatening.

Most folk are smarter and calmer than we give them credit for. The crime stats are said to show that this is certainly the case for those who take the mandatory oc-cc training that many States mandate.

[javlin101]

Originally Posted by twofifty

I've been all over the US on numerous trips to areas (urban and country) where the general public's right to carry (open and/or cc) is part of day-to-day life. The presence of armed folk in close proximity never felt threatening.

Most folk are smarter and calmer than we give them credit for. The crime stats are said to show that this is certainly the case for those who take the mandatory oc-cc training that many States mandate.

Smarter and calmer until it hits the fan, no one knows how other people will react. I personally would rather not know but if the gov decides to allow carry I will accept that change. Will I be comfortable, no, will I accept, yes. Are you willing to do the same if it went the other way?

[expmler]

Originally Posted by javlin101

There has been victims everywhere in this world and always will be and this includes places where you can carry or not. Why would the right to carry change this here in Canada? If your a person that hunts, likes to shoot, etc and know the dangers of firearms want to make it even easier for the general public to carry???????

I hunt and shoot and know all about firearms, I am also a member of the general public.

Firearms are not dangerous, irresponsible use is dangerous.

[expmler]

Originally Posted by javlin101

you have the right within the regulations.

you get it now?

Anything with strings attached is not a "RIGHT" It is a privilege.

[Immigrant]

Originally Posted by expmler

So tell me, why did you carry a firearm? You seemed not to need one.

That is my point. Lots of dangerous examples where having a handgun did not help me in any way. So really no need to carry, and thus stopped carrying

[twofifty]

Originally Posted by javlin101

... Are you willing to do the same if it went the other way?

Not much choice is there when the law now forbids it.

Where I live wilderness carry would likely be much more useful to me than carrying in the community. For people who live in Calgary or Edmonton, community carry might well be a viable option if only the law allowed it and they trained such that they were proficient.

For women anywhere carry should be a legal option.

[Immigrant]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Then what about;



If you are living in fear of those examples coming true, then you are living in the wrong place.

That is exactly why I chose to live here. The odds of my examples happening here are slim to none. Why? Because handguns are restricted and very difficult to come by

[expmler]

Originally Posted by javlin101

Smarter and calmer until it hits the fan, no one knows how other people will react. I personally would rather not know but if the gov decides to allow carry I will accept that change. Will I be comfortable, no, will I accept, yes. Are you willing to do the same if it went the other way?

Immigrant just listed a number of scenarios where someone who had access to a gun was threatened and chose not to use the gun. What makes you think every threat results in a shootout.

[twofifty]

Good point expmler.

[expmler]

Originally Posted by Immigrant

That is exactly why I chose to live here. The odds of my examples happening here are slim to none. Why? Because handguns are restricted and very difficult to come by

Has more to do with the culture than access to handguns.

[javlin101]

Originally Posted by expmler

I hunt and shoot and know all about firearms, I am also a member of the general public.

Firearms are not dangerous, irresponsible use is dangerous.

Everything is dangerous in the wrong hands, right to carry will alow anyone to carry as long as they can get certified. Look at it this way, so many people here pass a driving test but as related on this site so many times have seen examples of motorist not able to operate a vehicle safely. Now how many people will get a carry permit because they can and really not understand the danger they represent.

You hunt and shoot and understand the responsibility of owning a fire arm. we are not talking about walking down the street with a rifle or shotgun, we are talking about a sidearm, a hide able weapon that will fit in a pocket or purse that anyone CERTIFIED to carry. Yes it scares the heck out of me.

[hillbillyreefer]

Originally Posted by Immigrant

I will give you examples of the "ridiculous crap" he is spouting about!!
A friend, farther of three, was involved in a fender bender. He was hit from behind whilst waiting at a traffic light. Things get heated and he is shot 9 times by the lawyer that drove in to him.
My wife and I are getting in to my truck after supper at my parents. I see a person walking up the driveway pointing a gun. I am packing as well. Do i pull my gun or do I get my wife and parents back in to the house without a shootout. I made the right decision by not pulling my gun and herding the family back in to the house. They were not after my truck. They wanted in to the house because they left the truck idling in the driveway. If i pulled my gun a family member would have got hurt.
My cousin is drawing money at the ATM. He is focusing on the ATM. He is packing as well. They wait till it spits out the money and he gets shot 3 times in the stomach. They take his gun and his cash
My father gets woken up with a 9mm pistol shoved in his mouth. He had no time to reach for a gun. There are 7 guys standing in his bedroom with guns and knives. They hold up him, my mother and my sister for 8 hours in their home. All the whilst holding a gun to my 2 hear old nieces head so they don't think of doing anything "funny". They also threaten to rape my mother and sister
We are having a BBQ at a friends house with family friends and kids. 3 of us are packing. 4 guys jump over the fence, grab the closest child and puts a gun to his head. We all do what they say. No way we are pulling our guns. We are trained to shoot straight but they are not.

I have a few more examples if you want. But this is a good start. Fortunately Canada is a democracy. We all have certain rights and freedoms. I have the right to live in a peaceful society free from fear and intimidation. You may have the "right to choose to carry" but you will lose a few other "rights" if open carry by the general public is legalized

The criminals who commited these crimes were licensed and carrying firearms legally?

How much worse would crime have been if the good guys were not allowed to carry?

If you were allowed to carry for self defense why wouldn't you use the tools available to you?

Where is this sh it hole?

Sounds to me like a total failure of the system. How are law abiding people licensed to carry part of the problem? Sounds like they are still being victimized, the question is are they victimized less because they have guns?

Can you expand on which rights we will lose if open carry was legal? Why would democracy be threatened if open carry was legal?

[Matt L.]

Originally Posted by javlin101

Smarter and calmer until it hits the fan, no one knows how other people will react. I personally would rather not know but if the gov decides to allow carry I will accept that change. Will I be comfortable, no, will I accept, yes. Are you willing to do the same if it went the other way?

Your fear of the "general public" is palpable even over the Internet. It's actually rather disconcerting that someone has so much fear of his fellow man. I'll be honest with you, I don't get it. I don't get why you are so scared of other people being allowed to carry sidearms after qualifying for a permit to do so.

[javlin101]

Originally Posted by expmler

Immigrant just listed a number of scenarios where someone who had access to a gun was threatened and chose not to use the gun. What makes you think every threat results in a shootout.

So from your statement and that of your example the outcome was no different wither they carried or not. So why carry??

[twofifty]

Sounds like Mexico.