Liberials?

[brownbomber]

yeah very true points rug. but northern rural alberta is a pretty safe bet the conservative guy is gonna win by 15,000 votes no matter who i vote for. but as you point out the possibility is their. but i just can't bring myself to endorse somebody who looks at his constituents that don't fit his mold of voter he desires with such contempt.

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by Cordur

When Quebec becomes firearms free I'll wager car bombings go up 200%
.

[Alberta Separatist]

your posts make a lot of sense.
" history has shown time and again that civilizations have a self- life...history has also shown that those who do not learn from history, are doomed to repeat it"
why are albertans constantly repeating history by conforming to Ottawa.
are we not intelligent enough to manage our own affairs?
I read many forums that express views from hunters, shooters, right wing blogs ( small dead animals ) etc. etc.
I hear many complaints regarding the justice system, government income/payroll taxes, bilingualism , health care, etc.

a lot of people I talk to express the same feelings...many are outraged.
The same theme....they throw up their hands high in the air and say
" Oh well.....what can you do?"

How does an independant Alberta sound to you?

[rugatika]

Totally agree and respect that BB. Some guys go beyond not deserving a vote.

Separtist. I have toyed with the idea of AB separation before, but I really hate to give up on Canada. This could easily be the best country in the world, bar none. And I mean head and shoulders above the closest competitor. We have enormous natural resources, a workforce that up until a generation ago was the hardest working people on the planet. Canada has everything going for it that any other country would kill for. Rather than using these benefits for the good of those willing to work for them, succesive governments have decided to use Canada's wealth as a tool to pad their own pockets, buy votes, and attempt to turn Canadians into a bunch of serfs who are unable to think and fend for themselves.

We owe our democracy and freedom to men and women who laid their lives on the line so that we could enjoy a free life. And what have we done with it? Most of us are too lazy to even learn how our government works, or why one form of government is better than another. If all of the electorate took the time to learn basic political philosophy, and economics, I think we would have a different, better country than we do now.

When I look at some Canadians on welfare (or any other social assistance programs) I can't help but think of an orphaned wild animal that has been taken in by a well meaning person. The animal is fed and provided for and never has to learn how to look after itself. Pretty soon these people, and their children, and then their grandchildren have learned that living off of the government is how they survive. People think that providing food and money to these people is being nice to them, when in reality it is the cruelest thing we could do to them. Would you treat your own children that way? Give them everything they desire for 20 or 30 years and then expect them to go out on their own and earn their own way?

I hope that someday soon Canadians will come to realize that how they vote and who they vote for will affect not only their own lives but the lives of future generations of Canada as well. It would be sad for Alberta to have to leave Canada just to avoid being pulled down with a sinking ship. That day may come, but for now I still hope that Canada will turn itself around and chart a course for liberty and prosperity. As Ronald Reagan said (roughly) "Every citizen should be guaranteed equality of opportunity, but not equality of outcome."

Incidentally, Alberta has/had the highest per capita government spending in Canada. People are quick to credit Klein and his Tories for a debt free province, but in reality he had very little to do with it. Oil companies, entrepeneurs, and hard working Albertans paid off the debt DESPITE Klein spending like the Liberal he was/is. He had an incredibly loose fiscal policy, but to his credit, he let business do their thing. This is what Albertans kept voting for so I'm not so sure that Albertans are any different than the rest of Canada. Seems we like our government spending even more than the rest of the country. The only difference is we got the money to pay for it (for now).

[Jamie]

Quote
"Incidentally, Alberta has/had the highest per capita government spending in Canada. People are quick to credit Klein and his Tories for a debt free province, but in reality he had very little to do with it. Oil companies, entrepeneurs, and hard working Albertans paid off the debt DESPITE Klein spending like the Liberal he was/is. He had an incredibly loose fiscal policy, but to his credit, he let business do their thing. This is what Albertans kept voting for so I'm not so sure that Albertans are any different than the rest of Canada. Seems we like our government spending even more than the rest of the country. The only difference is we got the money to pay for it (for now)."

WHAT????
Are you on crack?
You don't remember all the wage roll backs, cuts to inefficient programs, welfare cuts, Health care cuts, Blowing up hospitals.. Sure things got a little loosey goosey towards the end.. But come on.
The reason we are in such fine shape is that we paid our bills. We don't pay high interest rates anymore... Now we have a capital spending problem. The fact is doing Biz in Alberta is very expensive.. To get the things done that need to be done is going to cost 3 times what it would have a few years ago. But some things have to be done. Others can wait till we cool off a bit.

[Cordur]

Quebec has a history of car bombings that you won't find in any other province. It was mostly gang related but after a couple of innocent people ended up as the victims, there was a crack down on gangs who soon reduced this activity. Basically it was drawing too much attention and public outcry. They are still fighting but if you did manage to get rid of all the guns they aren't idiots and still know ways to kill each other. It would just be interesting to see how much murder rates go down in the first province that manages to push their gun laws down the throats of everyone. Might be Ontario but could very well be Quebec.

I can guarantee one thing though. And that is, if federal law ever makes it illegal to possess a handgun or semi-auto, that this province will have the highest per capita rate of criminals in the world.

[rugatika]

...that when Albertans are given the choice of dipping into the government treasury or reducing taxes they pick...gimme gimme gimme. People seem to think that government money comes from someone other than themselves. (and maybe for some it does.)

Rather than continue on with fiscal responsibility Klein started handing out money to appease anyone with a hand sticking out. Stelmach is continuing this tradition. Alberta has the highest per capita gov't spending of any Canadian province.

Like you say, Klein/Dinning made some good choices when things were tight, but reverted to true Liberal form by doling out government money to buy votes rather than allowing taxpayers to keep more of what they earned.

PS: Been off the pipe for 3 months now.

[Jamie]

Quote
"PS: Been off the pipe for 3 months now.



Now that was a good one.

But dont we already have the nations lowest income tax rate?
Lower it anymore and we couldnt handle the influx of new people.
LOLOLOL

Jamie

[Limeyhunter]

Hi all:

Just a couple of additional thoughts to stimulate the conversation. It seems to me you are all far too much in agreement!

As for taxation, nothing ticks me of more than seeing some lazy bum taking advantage of the social welfare system. Why? Not because I disagree with it, but because it undermines it and provides those that are against it with ammunition. There are people in this world who do not have the advantages of many of us. People not equipped to survive in the capitalist society in which we live.

I am doing fine right now thank you very much. I am flexible (well not physically, but you get my drift) I have a masters degree and a very well paying job. But I am lucky. When I see those who are less fortunate than I am, I think “there but for the grace of God go I.” All it takes is a major personal disaster and we too could be in their shoes. That is what taxes should be for: to help those who are trully disadvantaged. Well that and to construct programs that we could not do as individuals: such as hospitals, schools, roads etc… Personally I do not have any problem paying my taxes, but, back to my opening point, it really gets my goat when I see someone abusing the system because they are too damn lazy to get off their own butts and earn a living as it screws it up for those who really do need help.

As for comments about civilization; if you look at the civilizations being discussed, they were all based on huge public works. Greece, Rome, Egypt, the Incas and on it goes. They were not built on private funding and capitalism, but on the government footing the bill through taxes. Capitalism is a relatively modern concept based on the teachings of Adam Smith just a few hundred years ago. If you want to talk about how we can become and remain a great civilization, the way we will be remembered is through our institutions and edifices, the same as those great civilizations of the past. Not through whether we have a long gun licence or not.

To take another tack though, what does it mean to be civilized? According to my dictionary it means, “a human society with a complex cultural, political and legal organization” or “intellectual, cultural and moral refinement.” In other words, democracy is civilized precisely because it is complex and allows freedom of speech. I may not agree with what you say, but I will fight for your right to say it. That is the foundation of democracy and modern civilization. The fact we can live in such a complex nation as Canada with different cultures, languages and perspectives, without going to war a killing each other (Think of Serbia, Nicaragua, Uganda etc…) and that we do not need a dictator to stop us from killing each other (Burma, Kenya, North Korea) Is a strong symbol of our civilization.

I understand the people on this board who are frustrated about gun control and bad accents. I also understand the comment about wanting our nation to be great and civilized. But to be honest it is being open to alternative ideas that we do not like that indicates our level of civilization!

I am certainly expecting to be flamed for these comments, but feel a different perspective is needed. Freedom of speech and all that! Feel free, I am taking a defensive position as I write this!

LimeyHunter

[TreeGuy]

Interesting post Limeyhunter. Very well said and I will try to do the same.

Although capitalism is a realitively new concept, it is by far the most successful economic system yet devised. Perhaps the reason for this is the fact that it emulates how an ecology works. By this I mean that capitalism is highly Darwinistic in nature while combining 'The Survival of the Fittest' principal with the baser elements that lie within the human psyche.

Theoretically, left to its own devices, 99% of a nations wealth would concentrate itself in the hands of 1% of the population. That is often the breaking point of a system, and the 99% of the population revolt.

The role of the government is to both act to prevent an absolute concentration of wealth within the system, and to show compassion for those who cannot function within the capitalistic environment.

THAT'S where things go awry. As I've previously mentioned, when warriors are transplanted by politicians, is the exact moment any civilization begins its descent on the slippery slope of its demise. It is when, as you mentioned, the edifices are constructed, that practically every civilized society over thousands of years has begun to crumble. It is when those who have forgotten the way of self preservation in a savage setting, that a society begins to crumble. It is when a higher value is placed on edifices, arts and culture and a natural desire to leave a mark behind, that a society begins to crumble.

Originally Posted by Limeyhunter

Not through whether we have a long gun licence or not.

Therefore, your statement is 100% incorrect (sorry to 'cherry pick' ). The long gun is a symbol of the warriors who dared. It is a symbol of the warriors who killed and were killed without giving it a second thought. They have and still do shed their blood for us. For this, they are rewarded by those who do not dare with edifices?

So, Limey, I for one reject your point. As soon as a society is disarmed, it becomes the proverbial 'fattened calf'. It becomes a sitting duck for either external threats, or internal threats when all of the weapons are concentrated under the control of a malignant regime.

That is what many of us see within the current Liberal party. A desire to disarm its public to 'protect us from outselves', or 'we know better than you do' kind of ideology is either corrupt with ulterior motives, or just Godamn stupid! I for one will never capitulate to such a historically WORNG mode of thinking.

Tree

[Cordur]

Ahhh Tree, you forgot the quote that would have said it all in far fewer words.

"Those who beat their swords into ploughshares will end up ploughing for those who did not."

[Limeyhunter]

Treeguy & Cordur:

I am not for one second suggesting that we should give up our guns. I would have found it real hard to have filled my freezer with moose and venison this year without one. (Not too good with a bow.) I am new to hunting but love it!

However, I think there are other issues that should be given equal weight, such as looking after those who cannot look after themselves; and I don't mean scroungers I mean those in genuine need.

I also understand your point about the warrior class. To that point, one of the most famous warrior nations was the Spartans. They beat the Athenians eventually. However, it is Athens that is remembered for its civilization, not Sparta, even though they won. Why? Because they developed democracy, philosophy, architecture, history etc… My point being if we want to be considered a great civilization, those are the yardsticks that we will be measured against by future generations.

If on the other hand we want to have a good life but be forgotten to the pages of history, all we need do is focus on hedonistic pleasures. By the way, I enjoy a lot of hedonistic pleasures myself, so don’t get me wrong, I am not suggesting we give them all up!

By the way, nice to have a “civilized” discussion!

LimeyHunter.

[TreeGuy]

Thanks Cord, I coulda used that quote about 5000 characters ago!

Limey.....I like your style, and although I often get more entertainment out of a 'rough and tumble' debate, a civilized one is good too (except for the spelling....Tree bad at spelling )!

Originally Posted by Limeyhunter

However, I think there are other issues that should be given equal weight, such as looking after those who cannot look after themselves; and I don't mean scroungers I mean those in genuine need.

Cool. Thus the compassionate role of a responsible government, and compassionate individuals. With my freezer full of elk this year, I made an effort to get the meat from the deer that I arrowed into the hands of a needy family. Not to feel a smug sense of satisfaction, but because I remember what it is like to go hungry. "Love thy neighbour". It is when charity starts to be more about those who are giving than it is about those who are recieving when the 'scroungers' start to come into play.

Originally Posted by Limeyhunter

Why? Because they developed democracy, philosophy, architecture, history etc… My point being if we want to be considered a great civilization, those are the yardsticks that we will be measured against by future generations.

I've been up the CN Tower in TO, and from an engineering perspective, it kicks the sh*t out of the pyramids. Need I remind you that all of these great testiments to the quality of their civilizations were constructed through the use of millions of SLAVES! Probably not the way I'd like to be remembered, but that's just me.

And sticking with that point, why the hell do we care about how future generations view us? Why is there such an innate need to leave a mark? Is this maybe a component of humanity that drives us both to greatness and our inevitable downfall?

Tree

[Cordur]

I've been up the CN Tower in TO, and from an engineering perspective, it kicks the sh*t out of the pyramids. Need I remind you that all of these great testiments to the quality of their civilizations were constructed through the use of millions of SLAVES! Probably not the way I'd like to be remembered, but that's just me.

I agree. And who wants to be remembered as the great civilization that got their butts kicked? I'd rather have been a Spartan, least I didn't have to build a temple without pay for some guys to stand around in, debating how a man should conduct himself.

Another thing to consider is that people who have money and are successful are quite capable of donating time, money and advice to those who are in need of it. And that is without the help of the government taking it in taxes to dole out to anyone willing to work the system. I think you'll find that Albertans give more per capita to good causes than any other province in Canada. I think one of the problems is that when you tax people into the poor house then give them back some money you are responsible for creating the problem in the first place. I made minimum wage in Nova Scotia working at a Canadian Tire full time. I think I got a raise after my first year of 10 cents. Now making the big coin of $5.65/hour I usually did a bit of overtime to help pad my pay cheque a little. But on an 80 hour week I made $452 gross. Of course you have to deduct EI, CPP and of course Income Tax. I believe my take home was usually around $350 give or take a little. Now I need to go shopping to buy some food and clothes. But wait. Nova Scotia had a provincial tax of 11%. Then of course there is the 7% GST which is taxed on top of the 11% making the total something like 19%. Well I'm doing ok I guess since I was only paying $305/month for rent with my utilities included. This left me with around $400 a month to spend minus of course the 19% so I have $324 to work with. Now some of the Math savvy here might notice that my gross would have been $11752 a year which made me too poor to pay taxes on more than $2000 or so of that every year. So I moved to Alberta where the same job I was doing there payed $12/hour at the time and there wasn't a provincial tax and rent at the time could be had for an easy $450 a month for a nice place. Now I make a good deal more than when I first moved here but I am able to decide for myself who I give money to each year. But explain to me how it is better when a person can't contribute to the social structure of a province when they are taxed into the ground compared to having next to no taxes and being able to spend money the way it seems best to those who have worked for it. The jobs would not have been here had businesses been taxed the way they are in Nova Scotia. The work force would not be present for the same reason. Sure Alberta isn't too likely to be remembered 1000 years from now as a cultural center except for a few cowboys. But I don't think I really care when I'm able to work, live, and be happy.

[TreeGuy]

Hey Cord, what CT did you work at?

I just got a PM from Limey. He's off chaseing cow elk for the next few days, so I think that in the mean time we should head waaaayyyy off topic and start making fun of the English and their poor dental tendencies and ugly women, not to mention how gay 'football' is and the B&C quality of Prince Charles's ears!

Sorry, I can only stay serious for so long.

Tree

[Ishpah]

Dion, the French word for dweeb.

[Cordur]

You're right about the B&C, because to be honest you won't make Pope & Young with Prince Charles. With ears like that you'd never be able to sneak up close enough to take the shot! You'd take some heavy deductions on the odd shape of the skull though. You know out east it's easy to tell when a house was built by a scottish fellow or an englishman. I'm 6'1" and slightly wide in the shoulders and can't for the life of me make my way through an english house without cracking my head on a low spot while walking sideways. Damn midget english! It's even worse when I go to visit Citadel Hill!

Remind me to tell you the story of when I got drinking with the crew of the Earl Grey while they were escorting the Matthew on it's leg of the tour through the maritimes. Lets just say there were a lot of drunk newfie coastguard talking about some stiff arse limeys. I didn't even know you could insult a brit that many different ways...

..... sorry..... I blame Tree for being an instigator!

And I worked at the CT in Yarmouth. God I hated that job! I worked 105 hours one paycheque and they screwed me out of over time by saying that I worked two different departments. Was in the warehouse in the morning and in hardware evenings during their Christmas rush. [Homer Simpson Voice]If I ever become a gabillionaire rich type person there's going to be a list, mark my words! Oh they'll pay and how. Rabid monkeys... mumble mumble... I'm going to Moes. Where did that dog come from?....[/Homer Simpson Voice]

ahem....

[Jamie]

Or....We could all be responsible for ourself's and not expect the Gov to watch out for our sorry butts.
But for the grace of God go I!! Well that and my investments
Just a idea. But then I have to admit I am drunk typing and all

LOLOLOLOLOL
Gotta love the X-mas party!!

Merry Crhistmas everyone!!

Jamie

[Alberta Separatist]

P.M. Harper was in Riviere- Du - Loup yesterday; portraying his government as " open to Quebec's aspirations".
He mentioned limits on federal spending powers, the recognition of Quebec as a nation within Canada and the recognition of the existence of a fiscal imbalance.

WTF is this?
Sounds just like another lieberal to me!

[TreeGuy]

Hey that's a GOOD thing. The more that Harper sounds like a Liberal, the more it relaxes people about him. What the hell do you think he's going to say with a minority government? Western Canada is a virtual lock for the Conservatives. It is Ontario and Quebec that he must win. If sounding 'Liberal' is what it takes to win him a majority mandate then so be it. Are you that short-sighted that you cannot understand something even THAT basic? Sheeze.

Tree

[Alberta Separatist]

if Harper sounds like a lieberal....maybe he is; any different than the last dictator? ..after all, in politics, perception is apparently everything.

are you not concerned about his message to Quebec...what are the implications of ... # 1. " a nation within a nation"
what are the implications of .... #2 "Quebec's fiscal imbalance" ?

I would agree with most Albertans that Harper is the best choice for P.M.
but not if he sells out Alberta for Quebec.

How will the supreme court rule on question # 1?
Will the rest of Canada become second class citizens?

#2. are you willing to send even more ( from Alberta ) than the 20 Billion in equalization , currently confiscated by Ottawa?
The ramifications of these statements are huge and will , obviously affect Alberta the most.

[TreeGuy]

Originally Posted by Alberta Separatist

if Harper sounds like a lieberal....maybe he is; any different than the last dictator? ..after all, in politics, perception is apparently everything..

HELLO? Are you just now figuring out that politics is almost entirely about perception? What are you, like 5?

Originally Posted by Alberta Separatist

Are you not concerned about his message to Quebec...what are the implications of ... # 1. " a nation within a nation"
what are the implications of .... #2 "Quebec's fiscal imbalance" ?

Those are called 'platitudes'. I'll speak SLOWLY so you can understand. Platitudes are what politicians use to say a whole lot of nothing. If I were to give my 6 year old the numbers and a calculator, he'd be easily able to figure out that Quebec is, and has almost always been, a 'Have Not' province.

Now let me ask you, do you know WHY it is a 'have not' province? Any idea?

Ok, I'll help ya out there, bud. It's because of f*ing separatists like you! What legitimate business would want to invest in a politically unstable climate like theirs? Aparantly only the government due to seat distribution.

Too damn many good people have given their lives in the creation and defence of this country and our freedoms. In a less politically correct era, you and your ilk would be branded as traitors, convicted of treason and hung from the nearest tree. Take your separatist sh*t, turn it sideways and stick it up your damn ass!

Tree

[genek270]

Boy, aren't we lucky to have such a knowledgeable, educated know-it-all as knothead!!! This guy's not only vastly smarter than the average user on this board but he's also a very good typist!!!
But what a bunch of expletives; I guess it's easier to scream and yell (on paper) than to present a measured, cool dispassionate summary of your beliefs. After all everyone is entitled to their opinions so live and let live and chill out!!

[Walleyes]

Well tree with all do respect I am going to disagree with you on this.. Separatism unfortunately is the only answer for the west... Why is that such a bad word to so many,, change must happen if not we would all be under Roman rule to this day..

It is unfortunate that so many had to die for freedom,, but remember many died for just that freedom and in many cases for other countries.. The ones that died for freedom fighting in this country did it for the same reasons we need to separate now,, its called leadership with out representation... Its about being dictated to by a group of individuals that want to control a system for their own agenda.. Its what our for fathers fought against and its what we are faced with today.. I am sick and tired of being held for ransom by a group of people.. I am sick and tired of having to cater to a group of people because of their place of birth.. Again this is racism and it smacks us in the face everyday and we don't realise it,, why ?? because the alternative is separation.. And we have people that are ready to give up just about everything in order to hold up these imaginary lines that exist on a map.. Change is good and when you have a group of people telling you straight out that they are different than you and they want to be treated special,, sorry that don't fly... Leave or I'll leave no problem...

The west must distance ourselves from the east as we are very different peoples with totally different agendas and very different backgrounds..

I for one will never admit to being a Canadian.. I am an Albertan first and always.. Canada can kiss my big rednecked *****

[TreeGuy]

Without the blood of those who fought for us, Walleyes, we would not be able to agree to disagree. However, I respect your position.

You guys want to have a go at this one? I'll play. Check the new thread.

Tree

[Alberta Separatist]

can Albertans afford those " platitudes" that the P.M. would like to bestow on Quebec?

would you have the same attitude talking with a Quebec separatist as you do with an Alberta separatist?

c'mon guy; chill and reason it out.

thanks walleye for your astute comments.

[Limeyhunter]

Well it sure seems like this conversation has taken a few changes in direction since I went off cow elk chasing! Looks like I have some catching up to do.

First to Tree:

As for British dentistry, I have no defense!
As for the women, I am married to a Canadian chick!
As for football, if God plays a sport, he plays football. What you guys call football we call rugby and don’t use body armor! A real mans game!
As for Charlie’s ears, again no defense possible; all I can say is that I am not sure how much English blood he has. I think it is mostly German and Greek!

To Cordur:

I am 5’7” and have never had a problem with English doors!
I have been fortunate to have traveled the world pretty extensively, and trust me there are a million ways of insulting Brits! The Aussies and Argentineans seem to have the most ways, based on my experience.

To Jamie:

Like I mentioned, I am doing fine too. But there are some poor buggers who can’t take care of themselves. I could give a crap about those who won’t take care of themselves; totally different ball game. In essence though I agree, if you can look after yourself, well then you should! Sounds like you had a ball of an Xmas party by the way!!

Regarding Culture and civilization:

I only brought this up in response to earlier comments. My point being that if we think of ourselves as cultured or civilized; democracy, ideas and institutions are how we are measured in there regard. Personally I think these things and the way that history will view us are important in the broader context. As individuals, should we care? I think that is up to each of us to determine for ourselves.

Regarding Harper:

I think any chance he might have been able to appeal to Liberials was blown this week in Bali. The way he has approached environmental targets has set him against most of the world and certainly against liberal voters. Right or wrong, that is the impact of his last weeks politicking. I agree that he has covered himself in Liberal camo for the last year or so, but I think his true blue colours came out for everyone to see this week. This may have gone relatively unnoticed here in the West as the vast majority agree with his stance. But I think Ontario and points east would have taken note, and it may well come back to bite him at the election.

Regarding Alberta separatism:

Personally I think it is a very dangerous assumption to make that the good times will continue to roll if Alberta was to become a separate state. Fast forward to what the future would look like. For one thing I don’t think the rest of Canada would be very happy about it, regardless of their reasons. So, we would have a fairly hostile neighbor on three borders. I also don’t think our neighbors to the south would be very happy about it. Remember last time someone tried to secede from the union, Lincoln stopped them at the point of the gun. From an American perspective, I do not think that they would appreciate a separatist state to their north. They may see it as a destabilizing influence that if they were to support it could lead to problems of their own. If I am correct, and remembering Alberta is landlocked, such a change could be very bad indeed. We are dependant on Canada’s and America’s goodwill to enable our trade.

Any major change, like becoming a separate state could, (I would say would) lead to dangerous and unexpected repercussions. I would also point out that most of the rest of the world is actually moving the opposite direction with movements toward large groupings of states (Europe, South America, ASEAN etc…) rather than toward separatism. That is a direct result of globalization. You have to be large to have influence. Take the Canadian dollar for instance. It is being buffeted on the world currency exchanges. If Alberta had its own currency, which presumably it would, what chance would it have with the currency speculation sharks?

Bracing for another attack, LimeyHunter.

[Cordur]

Fair enough but what is your excuse for cricket as a sport?

Of course anyone who plays Jai-Alai is a hands down winner of the "Don't be a *****!" award. Still we have hockey and lacrosse as our manly sports, not too shabby if you ask me.

Harper is a "C"onservative. I don't have any doubts about that. I don't think he wants to separate Canada from Quebec and I doubt he'd let things go so far as to give us a valid reason to vote Alberta out of confederation either. If Dion wins a majority then we'll talk. I'll send you my number from New Zealand cause I'd leave Canada on the first flight after the election.

[Limeyhunter]

Baseball, but without wussy gloves!

I hate to say it, but you might want to check out the price of tickets to NZ in the spring!

[TreeGuy]

Welcome back Limey! How'd ya make out? Sometimes, having a sense of humor is the best policy ie see my 'WHAT Was She Thinking Thread'!

Good comments on separation, you should 'cut and paste' em onto the new thread.

In an effort to NOT be typing all evening, I'll contain my comments to the 'Separatists' thread for now. See ya the other side!

Tree