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  #31  
Old 03-19-2017, 07:58 AM
Newview01 Newview01 is offline
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Originally Posted by LKILR View Post
As I have said in past threads. I'm all for designated trails to ride on. They need to be maintained and proper creek crossings put in place.... But then there's the problem with enforcement. It's challenging to enforce rules in the backcountry. When someone is convicted the punishment is not enough to deter re offenders. Example I have seen so many quadders using atv for hunting prior to noon. The fine fe this is marginal so many feel it's worth the risk. I would support the cause more if the punishments where raised to higher fines and confiscation of OHVs from offenders. Last fall I got to watch 4 dirt bikers take turns ripping up a grassy mountain where there is no trail. I had no way of knowing who they are or else I would have reported them. But even if they were caught what sort of punishment would they have received?
So the fines need to be raised. Which would easily pay for more enforcement.

The gov't likely knows this. We know for a fact that for many years Shannon Phillips has wanted the Castle Area shut down to human activity. They are not willing to compromise, and that is concerning because other areas will follow. Many on this forum are also not willing to compromise, but all that does is show their true colors.

The whole situation is a fabricated lie by the environmentalists. We have yet to see the science that proves that OHV use specifically is causing any serious issues. Heavily biased studies do not count as science.
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  #32  
Old 03-19-2017, 08:40 AM
ram crazy ram crazy is offline
 
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Originally Posted by LKILR View Post
Ramcrazy. I would like to sell the portion of land that I own in castle. Will you buy my portion from me as I don't use that area Lol
I don't have to there Skippy!!! Everyone has equal right.
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  #33  
Old 03-19-2017, 08:51 AM
ram crazy ram crazy is offline
 
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Originally Posted by LKILR View Post
As I have said in past threads. I'm all for designated trails to ride on. They need to be maintained and proper creek crossings put in place.... But then there's the problem with enforcement. It's challenging to enforce rules in the backcountry. When someone is convicted the punishment is not enough to deter re offenders. Example I have seen so many quadders using atv for hunting prior to noon. The fine fe this is marginal so many feel it's worth the risk. I would support the cause more if the punishments where raised to higher fines and confiscation of OHVs from offenders. Last fall I got to watch 4 dirt bikers take turns ripping up a grassy mountain where there is no trail. I had no way of knowing who they are or else I would have reported them. But even if they were caught what sort of punishment would they have received?
You haven't been back in there for a while then, cause they put all new bridges in and fix lots of trails. Sounds like your jealous of guys using quads before noon. I don't let it bother me, cause if they want to take that chance power to them. And I don't feel sorry for them when they get caught. As for your last comment. If there was no trail how did you get in to witness the incident.
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  #34  
Old 03-19-2017, 11:55 AM
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LKILR LKILR is offline
 
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Originally Posted by ram crazy View Post
You haven't been back in there for a while then, cause they put all new bridges in and fix lots of trails. Sounds like your jealous of guys using quads before noon. I don't let it bother me, cause if they want to take that chance power to them. And I don't feel sorry for them when they get caught. As for your last comment. If there was no trail how did you get in to witness the incident.
I don't need a trail to get into the backcountry. I suspect these same fellows cut some new trails some time last summer. I found the evidence. In one season of them riding there is significant damage left behind from the ruts then of course run off afterwards. The ruts are already 12" deep. I will be going back in in the spring to take photos so I can show you what I'm talking about. This is only one year ago. I have reported it to the authorities but I feel it's fallen on deaf ears. If you think it's ok to rip up virgin soil on grassy slope with a 45% grade then you are likely one who is causing these problem for yourself.
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  #35  
Old 03-19-2017, 03:06 PM
ram crazy ram crazy is offline
 
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Originally Posted by LKILR View Post
I don't need a trail to get into the backcountry. I suspect these same fellows cut some new trails some time last summer. I found the evidence. In one season of them riding there is significant damage left behind from the ruts then of course run off afterwards. The ruts are already 12" deep. I will be going back in in the spring to take photos so I can show you what I'm talking about. This is only one year ago. I have reported it to the authorities but I feel it's fallen on deaf ears. If you think it's ok to rip up virgin soil on grassy slope with a 45% grade then you are likely one who is causing these problem for yourself.
Easy there Skippy, you must be riding on the trail to get back in there as well!!! I stay on the trails, Hell I don't even like riding in the mud, if I can avoid it I will. Do you know how much it costs to wash a machine. I use my machine to scout around for animals, and Dam it you know what I always see lots of animals too. Good Detective work there by the way, did you ever stop to think the authorities may have cameras set up to watch this area as well. So when you go in to take pics this spring be careful you never know who is watching, I'd hate to see you be the one they pinch for being in this area you are talking of.
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  #36  
Old 03-21-2017, 09:29 AM
Masterchief Masterchief is offline
 
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I find it laughable how the government is planning on banning ATVs because of the damage they do to the environment. Here is a timelapse of what logging has done in my favorite hunting / quadding area near Sundre

https://earthengine.google.com/timel...,latLng&t=0.23
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  #37  
Old 03-21-2017, 10:49 AM
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HoytCRX32 HoytCRX32 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Masterchief View Post
I find it laughable how the government is planning on banning ATVs because of the damage they do to the environment. Here is a timelapse of what logging has done in my favorite hunting / quadding area near Sundre

https://earthengine.google.com/timel...,latLng&t=0.23
Wow....just wow
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  #38  
Old 03-22-2017, 11:32 AM
ratherbeoutside ratherbeoutside is offline
 
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Originally Posted by LKILR View Post
Why in the hell would he stick up for people who's activity destroys the land?
Its an unfortunate truth that many people forget, that any human existence will 'destroy' the natural state of the land. Your house, roads, food sources, power generation, everything. And all of those on a scale far bigger than the 'destruction' you refer to.
Everyone sees this 'destruction' a little differently. You see a quadder that puts some ruts in the ground and runs over a few plants as destruction. Other people look at you killing animals, and see this as destruction of natural things. And both of you are somewhat correct, but where should the line be drawn? Everyone is fine with drawing a line, as long as it doesn't affect their interests/hobbies/livelihood.

I've seen some of the picture people posted to prove that quadders just destroy stuff. But give me a weekend in 400 and I can get pictures of 'destruction' that happened with zero human intervention - erosion, avalanche debris, etc. And these pictures wouldn't look much better.

Before you go off on me: I am by no means promoting that people ignore what they do to the land. I very much enjoy pristine natural areas, and I don't agree at all with the people that think they need to blast through everything on their quads. Leaving garbage laying around is one of my biggest pet-peeves. But I'm not one to say that no quadding should be allowed because of this. Like others have said - there are bad examples of everything - quadders, gun owners, campers, drivers, husbands, etc. Doesn't mean all these should be banned...
What the area needs is some proper enforcement, and I don't think any users are opposed to a small user fee to cover the costs for that.

For reference, the proposed Castle park/wildland area would cover about 260,000 acres of land. If I guess that there is 1,000 km of quad trails in that area, at 8' wide - the entire trail system covers about 600 acres, or 0.2% of the total area. Leaving 99.8% of the area for non-quadders.

I do have an honest question for you, or Taco as he referenced it earlier - many talk about 'protecting the headwaters' as a reason for these proposed changes. What do you mean by that? How would stopping quadders affect the watershed? Will the snow stop falling, or the water stop flowing east if quads are still allowed in the hills?

Another question for you: the plans for Castle include looking at putting in infrastructure - possibly more roads, established camping areas, facilities, etc to commercialize the area a bit more, and in the long run to have more people come visit there. Are you ok with that 'destruction'? Which do you think will result in more land 'destruction' - the quads or this?
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  #39  
Old 03-25-2017, 06:15 PM
Walleyedude Walleyedude is offline
 
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A couple of really good posts were made with no response. Moving this up to the front page on the off chance it was just missed and not ignored.
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  #40  
Old 03-25-2017, 08:40 PM
Newview01 Newview01 is offline
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Originally Posted by Walleyedude View Post
A couple of really good posts were made with no response. Moving this up to the front page on the off chance it was just missed and not ignored.
The anti's have a hard time arguing with logic. I wasn't surprised to see a lack of responses.
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  #41  
Old 03-27-2017, 10:04 PM
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clyde clyde is offline
 
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Exciting news! As a direct result of the Castle random/open camping survey and a need for the majority of back country users and their families to have a unified voice,

ACESS (Alberta Committee for Eastern Slopes Stewardship) has been formed and is working collaboratively with contributors including the RVDA, on identifying both impacts and solutions for Open Camping with the Alberta Government.

Here is the first of a series of data releases from the survey.
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/f...0672763914.jpg

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  #42  
Old 03-28-2017, 07:29 AM
dmcbride dmcbride is offline
 
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Originally Posted by clyde View Post
Exciting news! As a direct result of the Castle random/open camping survey and a need for the majority of back country users and their families to have a unified voice,

ACESS (Alberta Committee for Eastern Slopes Stewardship) has been formed and is working collaboratively with contributors including the RVDA, on identifying both impacts and solutions for Open Camping with the Alberta Government.

Here is the first of a series of data releases from the survey.
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/f...0672763914.jpg

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk
Here you go.

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