Ali#1, you were right about Arizona.

[ali#1]

Originally Posted by rwm1273

Would you rather read power engineering threads, or threads on what is the average salary in Ft. Mac?

We need more of them.

[Okotokian]

The bill as proposed was clearly discriminatory in nature. It only gave the right to discriminate to those who belong to a "religion". Athiests would have no right under the law to discriminate. That's discrimination.

Seriously, the law would give additional rights to church members.

It was just dumb law and rightly vetoed.

[ali#1]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

The bill as proposed was clearly discriminatory in nature. It only gave the right to discriminate to those who belong to a "religion". Athiests would have no right under the law to discriminate. That's discrimination.

Seriously, the law would give additional rights to church members.

It was just dumb law and rightly vetoed.

As an athiest I am offended that I can't discriminate.

Your right though it was a poor law and it was rightly vetoed.

[recce43]

lots of dumb laws look at canadian laws as long as politics are involved there will be dumb laws...

[ali#1]

Originally Posted by recce43

lots of dumb laws look at canadian laws as long as politics are involved there will be dumb laws...

A lot of the problem is with the process. Laws are supposed to make us equal and give a balance, but in politics everything is political and they look at potential votes in the next election. So politicians usually make new laws that won't offend their base or the majority, and that's the reason why rights are for the minority and the majority doesn't need protection.

[rwm1273]

Originally Posted by ali#1

A lot of the problem is with the process. Laws are supposed to make us equal and give a balance, but in politics everything is political and they look at potential votes in the next election. So politicians usually make new laws that won't offend their base or the majority, and that's the reason why rights are for the minority and the majority doesn't need protection.

Finally a post I can agree with.

[FreeLantz]

8 pages, on a controversial subject, and no lock! I thought after Kurt called everyone a bigot, and mtngiant showed up, this thread was doomed. I'm impressed!

[ali#1]

Originally Posted by FreeLantz

8 pages, on a controversial subject, and no lock! I thought after Kurt called everyone a bigot, and mtngiant showed up, this thread was doomed. I'm impressed!

Me and rwm usually hammer out a truce. Might take a few pages.

[Wild&Free]

Originally Posted by ali#1

Me and rwm usually hammer out a truce. Might take a few pages.

until the next thread anyways.

[ali#1]

Originally Posted by Wild&Free

until the next thread anyways.

Keeps it interesting.

[Mb-MBR]

Originally Posted by recce43

lots of dumb laws look at canadian laws as long as politics are involved there will be dumb laws...

The Indian Act is a prime example of this right here in Canada. An Indian wasn't allowed to vote until 1960, that's probably in all of you folks lifetime. The Indian Act is still law here, although some provisions have been made, its still archaic.

[Mb-MBR]

An interesting article on our police chief.....



http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/loc...247732861.html

[rwm1273]

Originally Posted by Mb-MBR

An interesting article on our police chief.....



http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/loc...247732861.html

"At the end of the day it is about action," added Gerry Labossiere, who was part of a Winnipeg delegation -- which included Clunis -- to a conference on compassionate cities last May.

"That's what compassion is, it is action and service."

Pretty much sums it up.

[connexion123]

Originally Posted by whammy

I get a kick out of how Christians cling to old testament bull**** and use it to enforce their narrow-mindedness. What's immoral about gay marriage? Two people want to be committed to one another openly. How is that immoral according to the new testament?

Ummm.. read what the Apostle Paul wrote in Romans? Neither fornicators (that is for heterosexuals too) nor blasphemers, nor homosexuals, nor drunkards, nor the immoral will enter the kingdom of heaven. But some of you were such.

It isn't just in the Old Testament. Also, what scriptures did the early Christians have but that of the OT? The councils of Calcedon and Nicea separated what was and was not validated scripture and valid interpretation.

You or anyone seem to be able to discriminate against Christians because you don't like our view, and truly, I am ok with your differing opinion. Tolerance means two or more differing views can be expressed but the tolerance is letting those different views be expressed.

I don't agree with abortion. So what? Got a problem with it? Good for you. Believe what you want but it doesn't mean you're right.

Truth is subjective not objective. There can't be more than one truths. If there was, than there is no truth, or morality. And if no morality, no conscience, and therefore no obligation to conform to law or anything else. That essentially is darwinism and has been subscribed to by too many people.

I can break a law, but if I am caught, then I may suffer consequences. Even if I say it is right to break the law or no law exists. It doesn't matter if I like it, I will be subject to a judge and the punishment.

What most people don't want is to admit there will be a day all are judged. They would rather answer to no one, and they are good so all is fine. They can think that all they want. They have free will, but that doesn't mean they are right.

Where does the morality cross lines then? When it acceptable and not acceptable to cross those lines.

Fact is homosexuality goes against pro creation, and God's design of a penis and vagina. It goes against His design of Creation and appeals to the base thoughts of sexual pleasure over His desired design. That is the problem most Christians have with it. Marriage is an Holy institution created by a holy God and we have worshipped the creature rather than the Creator.

So, think how you like, agree with any view you lilke, but I have the same freedom

Don't impose your values or lack thereof on me and I'll do you the same courtesy.

[ali#1]

Originally Posted by connexion123

Ummm.. read what the Apostle Paul wrote in Romans? Neither fornicators (that is for heterosexuals too) nor blasphemers, nor homosexuals, nor drunkards, nor the immoral will enter the kingdom of heaven. But some of you were such.

It isn't just in the Old Testament. Also, what scriptures did the early Christians have but that of the OT? The councils of Calcedon and Nicea separated what was and was not validated scripture and valid interpretation.

You or anyone seem to be able to discriminate against Christians because you don't like our view, and truly, I am ok with your differing opinion. Tolerance means two or more differing views can be expressed but the tolerance is letting those different views be expressed.

I don't agree with abortion. So what? Got a problem with it? Good for you. Believe what you want but it doesn't mean you're right.

Truth is subjective not objective. There can't be more than one truths. If there was, than there is no truth, or morality. And if no morality, no conscience, and therefore no obligation to conform to law or anything else. That essentially is darwinism and has been subscribed to by too many people.

I can break a law, but if I am caught, then I may suffer consequences. Even if I say it is right to break the law or no law exists. It doesn't matter if I like it, I will be subject to a judge and the punishment.

What most people don't want is to admit there will be a day all are judged. They would rather answer to no one, and they are good so all is fine. They can think that all they want. They have free will, but that doesn't mean they are right.

Where does the morality cross lines then? When it acceptable and not acceptable to cross those lines.

Fact is homosexuality goes against pro creation, and God's design of a penis and vagina. It goes against His design of Creation and appeals to the base thoughts of sexual pleasure over His desired design. That is the problem most Christians have with it. Marriage is an Holy institution created by a holy God and we have worshipped the creature rather than the Creator.

So, think how you like, agree with any view you lilke, but I have the same freedom

Don't impose your values or lack thereof on me and I'll do you the same courtesy.

The problem with your argument is nobody voted for Jesus, not everybody believes in his or thinks he is god, and if we bend to what you believe then you are imposing your beliefs on us. The government has a job to try and treat everybody equally under the law not under the church's guidance. This is a secular country.

[rwm1273]

Originally Posted by ali#1

The problem with your argument is nobody voted for Jesus, not everybody believes in his or thinks he is god, and if we bend to what you believe then you are imposing your beliefs on us. The government has a job to try and treat everybody equally under the law not under the church's guidance. This is a secular country.

Yes, but you forget that we have rights to religious freedom, and some tend to forget that.

[ali#1]

Originally Posted by rwm1273

Yes, but you forget that we have rights to religious freedom, and some tend to forget that.

You have the right to freedom of and I have the right of freedom from. Which one is more important ?.

[connexion123]

Originally Posted by ali#1

The problem with your argument is nobody voted for Jesus, not everybody believes in his or thinks he is god, and if we bend to what you believe then you are imposing your beliefs on us. The government has a job to try and treat everybody equally under the law not under the church's guidance. This is a secular country.

That is why I said you can believe what you want. It is your choice. I was explaining why Christians are opposed. Not all but a lot.

I have the freedom of conscience in this country still and freedom of religion and I should not be forced in an orwellian fashion to bow to whims of people.

[30Cal]

Originally Posted by covey ridge

I have found nothing in the words attributed to Jesus where he even addressed the issue of homosexuality. Paul did, but not Jesus.

Jesus Never Said Anything About Homosexuality, or Did He?
It all starts with who Jesus is.

by Linda Harvey


This common myth is simply not true!

Consider these facts:

1.Jesus is never quoted in the New Testament as having directly addressed rape, incest, domestic violence or homosexual behavior. So are we supposed to believe all these practices are okay with Him? Read on....

2.Gospel writer and apostle John tells us there are many teachings and deeds of Christ that are not included in their New Testament accounts (John 21:25).

3.Christ is quoted at one point that God created people “in the beginning” as male and female, and that marriage is the union of one man and one woman joined together as “one flesh.” (Matthew 19:4-6 and Mark 10:6-9) Nothing is said about any other type of union.

4.When He discussed sexual morality, Christ had a very high standard, clearly affirming long-standing Old Testament law. He told the woman caught in adultery to “Go and sin no more.” (John 8:11) He warned people that not only the act of adultery was wrong, but even adulterous thoughts (Matthew 5:28). And he shamed the woman at the well (John 4:18) by pointing out to her that he knew she was living with a man who was not her husband.

5.Christ used the destruction of the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah as dramatic examples of God’s wrath (Matthew 10:15, Mark 6:11, Luke 10:12, and Luke 17:29). Throughout the Old Testament, prophets described these cities as being notorious for the practice of homosexuality. (Genesis 18:20, Genesis 19:4-5, Isaiah 3:9, Jeremiah 23:14, Ezekiel 16:46-59). Jesus certainly knew that this was how the comparison would be understood.

6.Most important of all, Christ was God incarnate (in the flesh) here on earth. He was the long-expected Messiah, Emmanuel (which means "God with us"). This was revealed in Matthew 16:13- 20, Matthew 17:5-9, Mark 8:27-30, Luke 4:16-30, Luke 9:18-21,John 4:25-26, John 8:57-59 and elsewhere. As one with God, He was present from the beginning of creation (John 1: 1-13; Colossians 1:15-17; Ephesians 3:9 and elsewhere).

So, Jesus was God as the laws were handed down through Moses to Israel and eventually to the whole world. This Old Testament law clearly prohibited homosexuality (Genesis 19, Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13; Deuteronomy 23:18 and elsewhere). The apostles understood this also, as shown by Paul’s writing in Romans 1:24-27, Peter’s in 2 Peter 2:4-22, and John’s in Revelation 22:15.

So--the apostles, who were taught by Christ, clearly understood that homosexuality was a sin as it has always been. When people say, “Jesus said nothing about homosexuality,” they reveal that they really haven’t understood Scripture, or Who Christ was and is.

Maybe some of these points can lead them to a clearer understanding.

http://missionamerica.com/printarticle.php?artnum=257

[Winch101]

Firstly just how offensive is it to have rampant Bible quotes bandied about
On an outdoor board ,like they had some sort of validity .
Sheer non sense ..
The fact that you are an expert on fairy tales only means you should be working
For Disney .
I think this covers it , should be the beginning and end of all discussion .
I understand ,it's a social media thing ,repeat falsehoods often enough
And they become fact .

http://freelink.wildlink.com/quote_history.php

You and your cult are dismissed . Pax Vobiscum

[connexion123]

Originally Posted by ali#1

The problem with your argument is nobody voted for Jesus, not everybody believes in his or thinks he is god, and if we bend to what you believe then you are imposing your beliefs on us. The government has a job to try and treat everybody equally under the law not under the church's guidance. This is a secular country.

In all actuality it doesn't matter if you voted for Him or not. There is one truth. Either Jesus is God, or He is not. Your or anyone's vote doesn't matter. Either He is and deserves worship and following of His laws, or not. What you or even I think doesn't matter. Truth matters.

The Greeks had sex with children. It was or was not wrong, but it can't be subjective, ie: it was right for them. That is post modernism, and is a pathetic, limp, morally corrupt view.

Votes don't count.

[connexion123]

Originally Posted by Winch101

Firstly just how offensive is it to have rampant Bible quotes bandied about
On an outdoor board ,like they had some sort of validity .
Sheer non sense ..
The fact that you are an expert on fairy tales only means you should be working
For Disney .
I think this covers it , should be the beginning and end of all discussion .
I understand ,it's a social media thing ,repeat falsehoods often enough
And they become fact .

http://freelink.wildlink.com/quote_history.php

You and your cult are dismissed . Pax Vobiscum

And you and your view are false. Dismissed.

Same argument.

[30Cal]

Originally Posted by Winch101

Firstly just how offensive is it to have rampant Bible quotes bandied about
On an outdoor board ,like they had some sort of validity .
Sheer non sense ..
The fact that you are an expert on fairy tales only means you should be working
For Disney .
I think this covers it , should be the beginning and end of all discussion .
I understand ,it's a social media thing ,repeat falsehoods often enough
And they become fact .

http://freelink.wildlink.com/quote_history.php

You and your cult are dismissed . Pax Vobiscum

Everyone's entitled to an opinion, however, if your getting uncomfortable that's what the heat tends to do when your in the fire; step out while you've got a chance.

[ali#1]

Originally Posted by connexion123

In all actuality it doesn't matter if you voted for Him or not. There is one truth. Either Jesus is God, or He is not. Your or anyone's vote doesn't matter. Either He is and deserves worship and following of His laws, or not. What you or even I think doesn't matter. Truth matters.

The Greeks had sex with children. It was or was not wrong, but it can't be subjective, ie: it was right for them. That is post modernism, and is a pathetic, limp, morally corrupt view.

Votes don't count.

Votes do count this is a secular country. I didn't vote for Jesus or Allah or Buddha and I don't want them involved in my government. You want a return to pre Victorian Britain and I won't Stand for it. Keep your church out of my government.

[connexion123]

Originally Posted by Winch101

Firstly just how offensive is it to have rampant Bible quotes bandied about
On an outdoor board ,like they had some sort of validity .
Sheer non sense ..
The fact that you are an expert on fairy tales only means you should be working
For Disney .
I think this covers it , should be the beginning and end of all discussion .
I understand ,it's a social media thing ,repeat falsehoods often enough
And they become fact .

http://freelink.wildlink.com/quote_history.php

You and your cult are dismissed . Pax Vobiscum

The fact you are offended means nothing. Freedom of speech trumps personal offense.

[ali#1]

Originally Posted by connexion123

And you and your view are false. Dismissed.

Same argument.

Says who ? You ? When did you become a judge around here. I say your views and fairy tails are false and immoral, child sacrifice, general mutilation, slavery, stoning people to death, selling your daughters are just a few things you left out of your little moral rant there. If you want to use the bible as a moral compass then I get to quote all the things you conviniently leave out.

[connexion123]

Originally Posted by ali#1

Votes do count this is a secular country. I didn't vote for Jesus or Allah or Buddha and I don't want them involved in my government. You want a return to pre Victorian Britain and I won't Stand for it. Keep your church out of my government.

And your government out of my Church.

[ali#1]

Originally Posted by connexion123

And your government out of my Church.

Are churches taxed ?

They should be if they get involved in politics.

[connexion123]

Originally Posted by ali#1

Says who ? You ? When did you become a judge around here. I say your views and fairy tails are false and immoral, child sacrifice, general mutilation, slavery, stoning people to death, selling your daughters are just a few things you left out of your little moral rant there. If you want to use the bible as a moral compass then I get to quote all the things you conviniently leave out.

Go nuts. Quote them verbatim. But much to your style of argument, who says, you? What makes you right? You forgot your child sex slave owning mass execution Christian killing athiest people before you.

Same argument as you use.

Your argument is invalid as it hold no water.

[connexion123]

Originally Posted by ali#1

Says who ? You ? When did you become a judge around here. I say your views and fairy tails are false and immoral, child sacrifice, general mutilation, slavery, stoning people to death, selling your daughters are just a few things you left out of your little moral rant there. If you want to use the bible as a moral compass then I get to quote all the things you conviniently leave out.

I merely used the EXACT SAME ARGUMENT YOU USED. What mkes you right when you use it and me wrong when I use it.