FLAMES 2021-22. Our time has not come

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck

I couldn't believe my eyes when Johnny threw that big hit, skated right through it. I have never seen him hit anyone before. Caught him good with head down. Didn't catch who was on the receiving end. But wow. Johnny hitting. Who woulda thunk it?

Must be because his dad was there watching, and his uncle.

Thanks for the post. I thought I was dreaming when I saw Johnny throw a hit. I had to double check that he wasn’t trying to dodge a hit and went the wrong way. He actually threw a hit. Who knew he could do that.

Is Mangiapane training him?

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by Talking moose

Time to edit out the “not” in the thread title me thinks……

Everyone. Let’s remember to consider people’s feelings.

Many people hate the flames and laugh at their play and are now very sad. Remember to not dwell too much on how well the play has been.

Hey. This is Calgarys first shut out in Boston since Kiprusoff on Dec 17, 2005.

Great job team! Great game Vladar!

[Sundancefisher]

Flames. 2nd in the league for goals against.

Flames are 4th in goals for.

Super!

[Trochu]

I may have missed a overtime lose, but last season, 19 games in, the Flames had 16 pts. This season, 27, and they are on pace for 116 pts.

Season still feels early to me, but it's almost 1/4 way in, the US Thanksgiving benchmark is fast approaching.

[Talking moose]

Originally Posted by Trochu

I may have missed a overtime lose, but last season, 19 games in, the Flames had 16 pts. This season, 27, and they are on pace for 116 pts.

Season still feels early to me, but it's almost 1/4 way in, the US Thanksgiving benchmark is fast approaching.

3 strongest teams in the west are jets, oil, and flames IMO…..Not sure what order.
Having watched all the games this year, I feel the jets are a better playoff team than both oil and flames. But who knows what will happen.

[brendan's dad]

Eat Bread is 2nd in goals and only trails Draisaitl. Tied with Ovi. I hope for the Flames sake he is not Shawn Horcoff reincarnated since he is an RFA next year.

[Trochu]

Heard the Flames top line hasn't been scored on 5-5 yet. Pretty impressive.

[roper1]

Johnnie NHL #1 star of the week. Don't tell Oiler fans...........

[bessiedog]

Originally Posted by roper1

Johnnie NHL #1 star of the week. Don't tell Oiler fans...........

Finally little bit o spark chirp from them Flamer fans.


That’s better boys…. Keep crawling out from under your rocks…..

He heee!

[TBark]

Good to see them playing so well.
Sutter does have to go to Post game interview school tho, geesh.

TBark

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by roper1

Johnnie NHL #1 star of the week. Don't tell Oiler fans...........

He’s looking in top shape. Not throwing the body around (once doesn’t count lol) however he never has.

His skating and passing is better. He is darting into corners but spinning away from potential contact.

He’s putting up the numbers.

Something always missed is his +/- is +14.

In comparison McDavid is +4. Draisaitl is +10.

What this tells me Johnny’s two way game is superior to the top two Oilers. Goaltending also a factor for sure but his play is putting up numbers. He has finally jumped on to the Sumter program.

[270person]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

What this tells me Johnny’s two way game is superior to the top two Oilers.

[Talking moose]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

He’s looking in top shape. Not throwing the body around (once doesn’t count lol) however he never has.

His skating and passing is better. He is darting into corners but spinning away from potential contact.

He’s putting up the numbers.

Something always missed is his +/- is +14.

In comparison McDavid is +4. Draisaitl is +10.

What this tells me Johnny’s two way game is superior to the top two Oilers. Goaltending also a factor for sure but his play is putting up numbers. He has finally jumped on to the Sumter program.

Lol Johnny is not a better 2 way player than Drai. Or even Mcdavid. Are you factoring each teams defence/goaltending into this equation?
Mcdavid alone is usually top in take aways.
Do you think If we swapped defence and goaltending that the numbers would remain the same?
Flames superior defence and goaltending is the factor here….

[Roderek]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

He’s looking in top shape. Not throwing the body around (once doesn’t count lol) however he never has.

His skating and passing is better. He is darting into corners but spinning away from potential contact.

He’s putting up the numbers.

Something always missed is his +/- is +14.

In comparison McDavid is +4. Draisaitl is +10.

What this tells me Johnny’s two way game is superior to the top two Oilers. Goaltending also a factor for sure but his play is putting up numbers. He has finally jumped on to the Sumter program.

His 5 on 5 play is superior to those two, I would have to look but my guess is 70% of Connor and Leon's points are on the PP which does not count in +/- but yeah there 5 on 5 play is average for sure.

I think I read Johnny has yet to be on the ice when a 5v5 goal has been scored this year. He still frustrates me when he is afraid to take a hit, l still see him give up pucks when he thinks he is going to take a hit in the corner, he just pushes it forward and spins away, or slows down so he doesn't get there first, but I guess you have to take the good with the bad.

I think a lot of his play this year has been improved due to the size of the flames this year, we got bigger with Gubrandson/Zadorov/Lewis etc, and I have seen a lot less liberties being taken with Johnny. Which has allowed him to do his thing.

Tre has some work to do, I am still not convinced he is going to sign here again. if he can use the extra year to his advantage that would be good. Get Johnny at 8x8 or 8x8.5. It may actually be beneficial for Tre to wait till the playoffs, If Johnny disappears again his value would go down I think.

[Talking moose]

14 of drais 35 points come from the pp.

[270person]

Originally Posted by Roderek

His 5 on 5 play is superior to those two, I would have to look but my guess is 70% of Connor and Leon's points are on the PP which does not count in +/- but yeah there 5 on 5 play is average for sure.

Bad guess, I guess.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by Talking moose

Lol Johnny is not a better 2 way player than Drai. Or even Mcdavid. Are you factoring each teams defence/goaltending into this equation?
Mcdavid alone is usually top in take aways.
Do you think If we swapped defence and goaltending that the numbers would remain the same?
Flames superior defence and goaltending is the factor here….

Drai is a far better two way player than McDavid.

The numbers don’t lie for Johnny this season. If he wasn’t back checking… was coughing up quality changes… not doing the Sutter hustle… he would not be in the great +/- position.

Oilers cough up lots of quality chances and don’t forecheck as hard as the Flames. It shows.

One can no longer invoke McJesus and say it’s everyone else’s fault for team problems. The defined is their plus minus. McJesus is a great player… he needs to work on his defensive game and help out his goalie.

[Talking moose]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

Drai is a far better two way player than McDavid.

The numbers don’t lie for Johnny this season. If he wasn’t back checking… was coughing up quality changes… not doing the Sutter hustle… he would not be in the great +/- position.

Oilers cough up lots of quality chances and don’t forecheck as hard as the Flames. It shows.

One can no longer invoke McJesus and say it’s everyone else’s fault for team problems. The defined is their plus minus. McJesus is a great player… he needs to work on his defensive game and help out his goalie.

You didn’t answer my question.

[Talking moose]

Yes. Mcdavid needs to work on his defence. Right now he’s a liability when he steps out on the ice.
Everyone wonders if the other team is gonna score when he’s out there.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by Talking moose

Yes. Mcdavid needs to work on his defence. Right now he’s a liability when he steps out on the ice.
Everyone wonders if the other team is gonna score when he’s out there.

But factor in… he has 32 points correct? Second in the league next to Draisaitl.

You snicker about his power at scoring goals… getting assists. Yet somehow you are blind to the fact… McDavid has a +/- of 4.

That means… while he was on the ice… the other teams scored 28 times… to his 32 points.

Is that a concern for you from a standpoint of getting a Stanley Cup?

I would be tickled pink to have the Oilers win the cup. I’m a huge fan. Have been for ever.

However… looking past the silly My city’s team is better than yours and I’m blind to our failures… McDavids weaker on defence.

Another way to look at it is Johnny has contributed 14 net point for the Flames. McDavid 4 net points for the Oilers.

I was just surprised. Johnny is credited with 4 hits. Draisaitl 6.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by Talking moose

You didn’t answer my question.

I’ve said it on the Oilers thread. Defence and goaltending is the biggest flaw we need fixed for the Oilers to go all the way.

Now… the question back is… does McDavid play a part in defence or are you blaming everyone else? Is he doing as well in his defensive game as in his offensive game?

Coaching plays into all of it of course… however McDavid is responsible for his play… both ways… and as it stands now he is fundamentally less of a positive impact on wins than Johnny.

Johnny is +14 and McDavid is +4.

That is an important statistic is it not?

[Talking moose]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

I’ve said it on the Oilers thread. Defence and goaltending is the biggest flaw we need fixed for the Oilers to go all the way.

Now… the question back is… does McDavid play a part in defence or are you blaming everyone else? Is he doing as well in his defensive game as in his offensive game?

You know what I’m saying. (Swap defence and goalies and those numbers change)
Is he doing as well in his defensive game as his offensive game? I don’t think anyone is playing a stronger defensive game than mcdavids offensive game…nobody.

[Talking moose]

Missed one. Is that an important stat?
Not really. You could flash Johnny’s +14 stat around but 99.9% of the league would choose Mcdavid to build a team around over Johnny. So it must not be too big of a deal.
I’ll change 99.9 to 100 now that I think about it.
An example to why it’s a useless stat.
Ovechkin can score over 50 goals a season and still be -35

[Twisted Canuck]

We have reached new levels of silliness when you start using a plus minus number to compare Johnny and McDavid. They are two entirely different players, with different team make up and coaching.

But there can be no question that McDavid is the best player on the ice today, and since forever. And by best, I mean the fastest most skilled player ever to lace up. Period. Nobody else can do what he can at the speed he does it. Nobody.

Now feel free to go back to comparing stats, as though that will define the situation.

[Talking moose]

Ok I’m done. Google and read sun dance.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by Talking moose

You know what I’m saying. (Swap defence and goalies and those numbers change)
Is he doing as well in his defensive game as his offensive game? I don’t think anyone is playing a stronger defensive game than mcdavids offensive game…nobody.

I hear however I’m taking it a step further. I’m saying Connor has a responsibility towards defence also. It’s also coaching. The players in front of the goalie helps the goalie shine brighter.

I’m not sure what you are saying about McDavids defensive play. He is +4. Draisaitl is +10. Same goalie. Puljujarvi is plus 7. He has three more net points than McDavid. McDavid is 102 place in +/-

Would you see a team of players with a +/- of +4 be more or less successful than a team of players with a +/- of +14?

Get my point? McDavid could have 100 points today… but if his +/- is 4… it’s meaningless to victories and it speaks to a serious problem with the team.

As for is someone playing a better defensive game than McDavids offensive game… that is totally where +/- stats come in. Totally speaks to that. Again… he is 102 in the +/- stat.

[Roderek]

Originally Posted by 270person

Bad guess, I guess.

Then I guess the +/- stat shows how bad they are at 5v5 actually are if they have scored more then 50% of there goals at 5 on 5, they have been on the ice for a fair bit for goals against 5 on 5, at least Connor being only +4

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by Talking moose

Missed one. Is that an important stat?
Not really. You could flash Johnny’s +14 stat around but 99.9% of the league would choose Mcdavid to build a team around over Johnny. So it must not be too big of a deal.
I’ll change 99.9 to 100 now that I think about it.
An example to why it’s a useless stat.
Ovechkin can score over 50 goals a season and still be -35

I’m totally not saying Johnny is a better player than McDavid. McDavid is amazing…

However…he is on the ice for far too many goals against.

So now comes the blame game for the Oilers.

Is this because McDavid doesn’t play good defence? Johnny does better?
Is it because his linemates suck? Is the Flames line with Johnny better?
Is it because goal tending sucks? Flames definitely have the better goalies
Is it because coaching sucks? Flames seem to have far superior coaching.
Is it because line for line… competitors are really strong? If so is Johnny playing easier competitor lines?

Combination of the above?

Good question…

[Sundancefisher]

Great to see two strong Alberta teams. Hope it lasts a long time.

[Roderek]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

I’m totally not saying Johnny is a better player than McDavid. McDavid is amazing…

However…he is on the ice for far too many goals against.

So now comes the blame game for the Oilers.

Is this because McDavid doesn’t play good defence? Johnny does better?
Is it because his linemates suck? Is the Flames line with Johnny better?
Is it because goal tending sucks? Flames definitely have the better goalies
Is it because coaching sucks? Flames seem to have far superior coaching.
Is it because line for line… competitors are really strong? If so is Johnny playing easier competitor lines?

Combination of the above?

Good question…

I figure some of his +/- stat is probably his ice time, but it appears that is only about 3.5 minutes average more then Johnny. It will be interesting to see how Connor holds up come playoffs, playing as much as he does with the Olympics( assuming the NHL goes) last year he seemed to run out of gas in the playoffs and only had to play 56 games. 82 plus Olympics and travel time could be rough for him.