Winterizing a Water Barrel?

shortaction · #1 11-01-2010, 07:11 PM

My cousin has a camp and he has water barrels he fills from the eavestroughs. They are plastic barrels and the water is used for washing and such. He drains them when the cold weather starts so they don't freeze and rupture.

He and his family go to camp a couple of times during the winter for a weekend and he has been wondering if there is some kind of home made bladder system he could make for the barrels so they wouldn't break when the water freezes? He could store them in the sauna and thaw them when they went in for the weekends during the winter. Would save hauling a bunch of water with them.

Any ideas?

CaberTosser · #2 11-01-2010, 08:19 PM

If the Geology permits (like if its not solid bedrock), how about digging the barrels down deep enough to be below the permafrost and insulating over top of them at a few stages, such as 2 or 3 plywood covers with R-12 foam insulation on them. Space them each a distance apart. The deep location would be a steady temp year round, just filter and treat the water as you pump it out. I'd remove the pump when its not in operation though.

I'm theorizing here, but I am a plumber.

shortaction · #3 11-01-2010, 08:31 PM

Sorry, should have included the Geology.

Solid bedrock (Dolomite/Limestone).

Great idea, though.

pikergolf · #4 11-01-2010, 08:44 PM

I would suggest that you fill one barrel and leave about 6" of air space at the top, try it for a year I'd be very surprised if it splits.

CaberTosser · #5 11-01-2010, 08:50 PM

I'd try one on its side as well. I scavenged some cool clear poly barrels from a hotel I was doing some repairs on, with permission from the maintenance supervisor. They're about 15 gallons each, and contained liquid laundry detergent for the big laundry operation they have there. I rinsed them out repeatedly, and let them sit full of water for a few days, and repeated again a few times. Some of that size could be used for hauling without being so heavy you can't move them.

jaylow? · #6 11-01-2010, 08:53 PM

build a large plywood box thats lined with rigid insulation on the inside. place a barrel wrapped with tracing in it. and shut it. by no means will the water be warm , but i cant see it freezing , if your only using it a few times a year a barrel of water will last a long time.

billie · #7 11-01-2010, 09:04 PM

I've had poly barrels freeze and they didn't split but they deformed the bottoms since they froze over the top first.

Sorry, can't think of a solution for you. An old bath tub would probably work but that isn't really what you asked.

Rockymtnx · #8 11-01-2010, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pikergolf

I would suggest that you fill one barrel and leave about 6" of air space at the top, try it for a year I'd be very surprised if it splits.

I have several barrels with the tops cut off. Even with the tops gone I have had them split out the bottom.

pikergolf · #9 11-01-2010, 10:06 PM

"I have several barrels with the tops cut off. Even with the tops gone I have had them split out the bottom."
I stand corrected

Reeves1 · #10 11-02-2010, 07:59 AM

Quote:

He could store them in the sauna and thaw them when they went in for the weekends during the winter.

Thawing out even a 5 gal. jug of solid ice .....and it would be time to go home before it was all water again.

Caber had a good idea about going underground, except for the solid rock.

How much power ($) would it take to keep 45 gal. from freezing for 4-5 months ?

Grizzly Adams · #11 11-02-2010, 08:38 AM

Sounds like a lost cause and hardly worth the effort. Unless the barrel is buried below the frost line it would freeze, eventually. For all intents and purposes, you are creating a cistern and if you are going to do that, might as well do it properly. Hauling water and using it wisely, is the easiest and most practical solution.

Grizz

I-Love-Eyes · #12 11-02-2010, 09:09 AM

When my sis-in-law winterizes the swimming pool, she drains out the water to below the skim filters, and then throws in some empty bleach bottles or milk bottles tied to a brick ( to keep it below water level). Then, when the water freezes, it will compress the empty bottles instead of the bottom of the pool.
Maybe this would work in the water barrels too, with two or three bottles tied at different depths in the barrel. Just a thought.

shortaction · #13 11-02-2010, 09:41 AM

I should have mentioned there is no electricity at the camp and only ATV or Shank Pony access.

The comment about the empty plastic bottles is the kind of thing we where thinking about. My brother used to do the same thing with his pool. We where kind of wondering if a tire tube filled with air kind of stretched up the middle of the barrel would absorb the expansion?

KegRiver · #14 11-02-2010, 11:16 AM

Not much I can add to what has already been said. Lotta good advice there.

One suggestion. On the trapline I and everyone I know melt snow for water.
Don't know if it would work for you, but I can tell you from much experience, Thawing out ice takes time. Lots of time. Melting snow is much much faster.

I-Love-Eyes · #15 11-02-2010, 04:13 PM

Not really sure an inner tube would work as it has pressurized air in it--I think it would just explode when the ice pressure gets to be more than the air pressure in the tube. A non pressurized air bladder would probably work, but why go to that expense when you already buy milk anyway? The milk jugs/bleach bottles work because the air inside is not pressurized. Just my opinion. Maybe it would be worth an experiment to try the inner tube, but from experience using them when swimming, they are almost impossible to sink--unless you don't fill it completely full.

pikergolf · #16 11-02-2010, 05:08 PM

Speaking of milk jugs why not get a bunch of them and thaw on an as needed basis?

shortaction · #17 11-02-2010, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I-Love-Eyes

Not really sure an inner tube would work as it has pressurized air in it--I think it would just explode when the ice pressure gets to be more than the air pressure in the tube. A non pressurized air bladder would probably work, but why go to that expense when you already buy milk anyway? The milk jugs/bleach bottles work because the air inside is not pressurized. Just my opinion. Maybe it would be worth an experiment to try the inner tube, but from experience using them when swimming, they are almost impossible to sink--unless you don't fill it completely full.

Yes, you may be correct, just thought if the tube was only slightly pressurized it would compress when the water froze and would be less likely to crack and break than the jugs just in case there was a warm spell in the winter and the water thawed then froze again.

We may have to do a couple of test this winter!

Redfrog · #18 11-02-2010, 06:52 PM

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Walleyes · #19 11-02-2010, 07:07 PM

The fact remains that if the barrels freeze you still won't have usable water milk jugs or not.. You may not bust the battles but how in the heck are you going to thaw the barrels ?? it takes days to thaw a barrel full of ice.. You say that he will store them in the sauna,, how the heck is he going to pack a full barrel of water to the sauna ??? we are talking 450lbs here..

Its winter in the north do what has been done for eons,,,,,,, melt snow !!!! Place the empty barrel in the cabin/sauna and pack snow to it as it melts.. Snow melts faster than solid ice..

shortaction · #20 11-03-2010, 02:48 AM

Some years melting snow is the answer but some winters here (like last winter) you couldn't scrape together enough snow to make a cup of tea!

He would fill the barrel in the sauna from another barrel, not carry the whole thing in full!

Thawing it out may be a problem though, can keep it pretty hot in the sauna, but a 30 - 40 gal ice cube could take quite awhile.

Reeves1 · #21 11-03-2010, 07:34 AM

After much thought on this topic I've decided that the best thing to do is to shower/bath before spending the weekend at the cabin.......and drink beer when thirsty.