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Old 09-21-2018, 04:36 PM
Jucebox Jucebox is offline
 
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Default Putting an Old Engine in and New truck

Ladies and Gents

Ive a 97 K2500 thats beena pretty decent bush truck, aside from having a 5.7 in it. I was wondering, Ive a freshly rebuilt 7.4, but its from the 70s and I kind of want to keep it a carb and not go through the expense of mpfi mods. Any suggestions? Fuel pump wiring , ect ect
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Old 09-21-2018, 05:26 PM
thing thing is offline
 
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Why?

You're going to spend tons of time and money doing so. If you want a carbed truck, go buy one and stick your rebuilt big block in it.
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  #3  
Old 09-21-2018, 05:29 PM
Jucebox Jucebox is offline
 
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Because the 5.7 is tired, and I have the 7.4 already.
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Old 09-21-2018, 05:53 PM
Boogerfart Boogerfart is offline
 
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What transmission does the truck have? If it's a automatic you'll have a hard time as by 97 they where electronically controlled and used a throttle position sensor instead of a kickdown linkage. If it's a manual than the biggest issue you may have is sensor compatibility causing warning lights to always be on.
A cheap ebay regulator solves your fuel pressure issue without even dropping the tank.
The front will of course sit lower and if you don't swap a bigger rad in you may have overheating issues.
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Old 09-21-2018, 06:34 PM
hogie hogie is offline
 
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Anything can be done, need a trans that will work. Fab some engine and trans mounts. Big hammer for firewall if needed .

I have dropped small block V8 into a S10 at one time. It takes a much patience , time and patience. I think I had the engine and trans out 10 times before I was happy with how it was sitting in the vehicle. Need to have angles right for the back of trans for driveline angles. Then figure out the cooling system, exhaust and throttle linkages.
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Old 09-21-2018, 07:05 PM
Jucebox Jucebox is offline
 
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It is a manual, the NV3500, if memory serves. Pressure regulator, I like it.
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Old 09-21-2018, 07:12 PM
RandyBoBandy RandyBoBandy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hogie View Post
Anything can be done, need a trans that will work. Fab some engine and trans mounts. Big hammer for firewall if needed .

I have dropped small block V8 into a S10 at one time. It takes a much patience , time and patience. I think I had the engine and trans out 10 times before I was happy with how it was sitting in the vehicle. Need to have angles right for the back of trans for driveline angles. Then figure out the cooling system, exhaust and throttle linkages.
Yep..it only takes TIME and MONEY for any project. Eventually you run out of one or the other, depending on your task
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Old 09-22-2018, 01:22 PM
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does it ALL outdoors does it ALL outdoors is offline
 
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You can buy used LS motors from the salvage yard (out of written off vehicles) for reasonable prices, thats the way I would go.

Those LS's are tough to beat for performance
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Old 09-24-2018, 03:09 AM
Jucebox Jucebox is offline
 
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The problem with the LS is the added electronics that have to come with em to work.
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Old 09-24-2018, 08:10 AM
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mooseknuckle mooseknuckle is offline
 
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Wifey said no more hotrods or project cars. So id like to replace the 5.3 with a supercharged 6.0 in the old 8 passenger burb.
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Old 09-24-2018, 08:14 AM
jstubbs jstubbs is online now
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jucebox View Post
It is a manual, the NV3500, if memory serves. Pressure regulator, I like it.
Are you sure? I have a 97 GMC 2500 5.7L and it has the NV4500 to the best of my knowledge. The NV3500 only came in the halftons, mostly 4.3L and 5.0L iirc
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Old 09-24-2018, 08:55 AM
artie artie is offline
 
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I had a 97 chev 1/2 ton with a standard tranny. Not sure which tranny but it was smaller than the trannies I had in my older trucks. That truck would burn out clutches like crazy. I tried all sorts of clutches including the ceramic which was garbage in that truck. So if I was you and you are going ahead with the project get a good old style heavy duty tranny to put in the unit.

You already know it is going to be a gas guzzler.
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Old 09-24-2018, 12:53 PM
Jucebox Jucebox is offline
 
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I stand corrected, its nv4500. And it is not the greatest on fuel, but with 410s in the back and nothing for a mileage technology, not shocked. Its just gutless and I think the Fuel spider has a plugged poppet valve.

And Nuckle, Id use the 6.2 supercharged in the burb... Or an LS7.
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Old 09-24-2018, 12:55 PM
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mooseknuckle mooseknuckle is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jucebox View Post
I stand corrected, its nv4500. And it is not the greatest on fuel, but with 410s in the back and nothing for a mileage technology, not shocked. Its just gutless and I think the Fuel spider has a plugged poppet valve.

And Nuckle, Id use the 6.2 supercharged in the burb... Or an LS7.
Awesome!!
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Old 09-24-2018, 04:08 PM
Buckhead Buckhead is offline
 
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If this was my truck I would just sell the 7.4. Rebuild the 5.7 with a 383 stroker kit and drop it in. Done. No mods required to anything.
But, maybe I'm just lazy.
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Old 09-24-2018, 04:26 PM
jstubbs jstubbs is online now
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jucebox View Post
I stand corrected, its nv4500. And it is not the greatest on fuel, but with 410s in the back and nothing for a mileage technology, not shocked. Its just gutless and I think the Fuel spider has a plugged poppet valve.

And Nuckle, Id use the 6.2 supercharged in the burb... Or an LS7.
I swear you and I have the same truck. My 97 350 5 speed is the same. I get abysmal mileage (don’t even bother to calculate) and it’s real gutless. Struggled to pull my 4,000 lb camper. Only difference is I think I have 3.73s.

Good news is that’s a damn good tranny and can handle a lot of power. Tons of clutch upgrade options out there as well if you decide to really get something juiced up in it.
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Old 09-25-2018, 02:54 AM
Jucebox Jucebox is offline
 
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Originally Posted by jstubbs View Post
I swear you and I have the same truck. My 97 350 5 speed is the same. I get abysmal mileage (don’t even bother to calculate) and it’s real gutless. Struggled to pull my 4,000 lb camper. Only difference is I think I have 3.73s.

Good news is that’s a damn good tranny and can handle a lot of power. Tons of clutch upgrade options out there as well if you decide to really get something juiced up in it.
Stubbs, if its a regular cab long box, yep. The only options I have are AC and Cruise, lol. I do adore the transmission, to the point if the truck fails some how, the transmission is staying with me to the next bush truck. I have toyed with the idea of ripping a LBZ out of wreck and making it fit, but only over whisky, the actual undertaking would be horrendous.

As for just O/Hing the 5.7, I dont think it would help. There's a reason GM went away from that engine. And If I wanted, I could stroke the 7.4 to 8L (496) and have a real monster. And as I sit here with my whisky, I may start looking for kits...
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Old 09-25-2018, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jucebox View Post
Ladies and Gents

Ive a 97 K2500 thats beena pretty decent bush truck, aside from having a 5.7 in it. I was wondering, Ive a freshly rebuilt 7.4, but its from the 70s and I kind of want to keep it a carb and not go through the expense of mpfi mods. Any suggestions? Fuel pump wiring , ect ect
Fuel pump I would use a mechanical pump on the 454 or you will need to splice in enough wiring to turn on, turn off pump and incorporate a safety to kill power to the pump should a line be severed in an accident.

If you go with the mechanical pump you will have to remove the in tank pump.
The mechanical pump will suck enough fuel through the electric pump to idle but will fall on it's face at higher RPM.

I have more big blocks than I can count, (okay I just counted I have 9 right now) the old carb 454 is a great motor until you drive a TBI 454, moving up to the vortec 454 the difference is black and white again.

Currently running a 8.1 with the Allison 6 speed automatic that leaves all my other big blocks in the dust.

I have every part one would need to put the Vortec fuel system on a 454 but you would still have to modify to install crank and knock sensors.

Big blocks are harder on front end components due to the weight.
You will need a good rad but new ones are quite reasonable.
Plan on a new exhaust system big blocks need to breathe.
A good LUC clutch will last you a long time.
If you are going to use the Vortec distributor now would be the time to buy a new one, they are hard on gears.
HEI distributor you will need to either move your motor mounts a bit or do some customizing to your firewall.
You may want to have the extra electric fan in front of the rad set up to kick in when needed, running at low speeds they have a hard time getting enough air through the grill design.

If you have ever found yourself grasping at your chest while at a fuel pump you will not be happy with this conversion.

If you get a grin on your face when you are pulling a 15 000 lb trailer and you pass people going up a hill then get the wrenches out and get busy.
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Old 09-25-2018, 05:19 PM
gmcmax05 gmcmax05 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by determined View Post
Fuel pump I would use a mechanical pump on the 454 or you will need to splice in enough wiring to turn on, turn off pump and incorporate a safety to kill power to the pump should a line be severed in an accident.

If you go with the mechanical pump you will have to remove the in tank pump.
The mechanical pump will suck enough fuel through the electric pump to idle but will fall on it's face at higher RPM.

I have more big blocks than I can count, (okay I just counted I have 9 right now) the old carb 454 is a great motor until you drive a TBI 454, moving up to the vortec 454 the difference is black and white again.

Currently running a 8.1 with the Allison 6 speed automatic that leaves all my other big blocks in the dust.

I have every part one would need to put the Vortec fuel system on a 454 but you would still have to modify to install crank and knock sensors.

Big blocks are harder on front end components due to the weight.
You will need a good rad but new ones are quite reasonable.
Plan on a new exhaust system big blocks need to breathe.
A good LUC clutch will last you a long time.
If you are going to use the Vortec distributor now would be the time to buy a new one, they are hard on gears.
HEI distributor you will need to either move your motor mounts a bit or do some customizing to your firewall.
You may want to have the extra electric fan in front of the rad set up to kick in when needed, running at low speeds they have a hard time getting enough air through the grill design.

If you have ever found yourself grasping at your chest while at a fuel pump you will not be happy with this conversion.

If you get a grin on your face when you are pulling a 15 000 lb trailer and you pass people going up a hill then get the wrenches out and get busy.
And if you are going to o thru all this to get 10 mpg, you would be better off finding a 10-15 yr old Dmax, get 18 mpg empty, & leave the 8.1 in your rearview mirror draging the same 15,000bs.
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Old 09-25-2018, 05:35 PM
sako1 sako1 is offline
 
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And if you are going to o thru all this to get 10 mpg, you would be better off finding a 10-15 yr old Dmax, get 18 mpg empty, & leave the 8.1 in your rearview mirror draging the same 15,000bs.
I agree. I own both. I don't care what a guy does to the vortec 7.4 or 8.1 short of pro-charging them. They will never compare in towing or fuel mileage to even an old dmax.
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Old 09-25-2018, 07:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmcmax05 View Post
And if you are going to o thru all this to get 10 mpg, you would be better off finding a 10-15 yr old Dmax, get 18 mpg empty, & leave the 8.1 in your rearview mirror draging the same 15,000bs.


If were talking apples for apples you posted a 10 - 15 year old duramax will leave my 8.1 n the mirror.

15 years ago was 2003 Duramax boasted 235 HP and 500ftlb torque.
2003 8.1 340 HP and 455 ftlb torque.

Just did a 1200 km trip hauling a 15 000 lb trailer with 4 people in the truck and averaged 9.5 MPG so your numbers are off by a bit.

What mileage is a loaded Duramax of the same era getting?

Not here to argue the gas vs diesel debate, I ran plenty of diesel trucks back in the 80's when fuel could be had for 30 cents per litre, those times are gone and unless someone is putting on big miles it just does not pencil out for me once maintenance and fuel costs are added up.
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Old 09-25-2018, 08:33 PM
sako1 sako1 is offline
 
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If were talking apples for apples you posted a 10 - 15 year old duramax will leave my 8.1 n the mirror.

15 years ago was 2003 Duramax boasted 235 HP and 500ftlb torque.
2003 8.1 340 HP and 455 ftlb torque.

Just did a 1200 km trip hauling a 15 000 lb trailer with 4 people in the truck and averaged 9.5 MPG so your numbers are off by a bit.

What mileage is a loaded Duramax of the same era getting?

Not here to argue the gas vs diesel debate, I ran plenty of diesel trucks back in the 80's when fuel could be had for 30 cents per litre, those times are gone and unless someone is putting on big miles it just does not pencil out for me once maintenance and fuel costs are added up.
The 235hp version was only in medium duty applications. Pickup trucks were 300hp. I have 7.4 vortecs and had an 8.1. There is absolutely no comparison in fuel mileage or žowing power. My 7.4 got the same mileage empty as what get towing. I average 14mpg towing 11000lbs. The greatest advantage is you can simply plug in a programmer and instantly have 75 more hp
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Old 09-26-2018, 03:20 AM
Jucebox Jucebox is offline
 
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Well, gentlemen, the 7.4 I have is from 1974, wrapped in plastic and filled with diesel, strapped to a engine mount. There would be no electronics in it, aside from a fuel regulator Ive found that works for carbs and electric pumps.

As for mileage, the application of said truck is just bush. Grabbing fire wood, hunting, and just taking a break from automatic and enjoying standard transmission driving, so it MAY, and its a stretch, see 5k a year. So the amount I use it, I could get a hummer mileage, but wouldnt care if I enjoy the thing.

The Dmax part gets tricksy. Theres ecu's and problems getting them to communicate with gauge clusters. (Ive looked into the idea before) And Im not sure about gearing, since diesels run at such a low rpm. (I assume, never ran diesels myself.) But if that doesnt matter, disregard.

Also, the 496 kit rotating assemblies for that vinetage, are mighty reasonable.
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Old 09-26-2018, 07:45 AM
graybeard graybeard is offline
 
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If this was my truck I would just sell the 7.4. Rebuild the 5.7 with a 383 stroker kit and drop it in. Done. No mods required to anything.
But, maybe I'm just lazy.
X 2....That is the first thing I thought of...

I like that idea and I am not lazy....I doubt you are either....
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Old 09-26-2018, 09:37 AM
jstubbs jstubbs is online now
 
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Originally Posted by Jucebox View Post
Stubbs, if its a regular cab long box, yep. The only options I have are AC and Cruise, lol. I do adore the transmission, to the point if the truck fails some how, the transmission is staying with me to the next bush truck. I have toyed with the idea of ripping a LBZ out of wreck and making it fit, but only over whisky, the actual undertaking would be horrendous.

As for just O/Hing the 5.7, I dont think it would help. There's a reason GM went away from that engine. And If I wanted, I could stroke the 7.4 to 8L (496) and have a real monster. And as I sit here with my whisky, I may start looking for kits...
Mines an extended cab short bed with A/C (that doesn't work), cruise, power windows, locks, overall pretty nice truck.

An LBZ would be cool yet a nightmare to get fully setup nevermind should anything on the motor break. A set of injectors, parts alone, will run you $3k. If you were to use anything for a diesel swap the 12v Cummins is probably the nobrainer, especially since they came factory mated to NV4500s although I believe GM used what was called a NV4500LD while Dodge used a NV4500LD for their V8 gas trucks and a NV4500HD for their diesels, so a trans swap might be needed for that, not sure. The big issue with a diesel is they're just too heavy and for a bush truck that's not always a good thing.

Overall if you have the time and money to make that old big block work, all the power to you. I think I'm in agreeance with the others in just rebuilding the 350 (and possibly stroking it) but that sure isn't as badass of an idea.
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  #26  
Old 09-26-2018, 08:38 PM
Jucebox Jucebox is offline
 
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The badass part is pretty much what Im looking at. As with most toys, its the "Thats cool"
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Old 10-01-2018, 01:44 PM
cole smith cole smith is offline
 
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+1 for a cummins. If you hate electronics get a 12 valve. Four wires to start the thing two for the fuel shut off and two for the starter. If you change the the fuel shut off to a manual plunger style (like old diesel tractors) and tow start it then you don't need any wires haha. Also I believe the input shafts on Chevy vs dodge nv4500 is different but a wrecker may trade you a Chevy one for a dodge one.
As to the 454, why are you so set against the 5.7? A SBC 350 (yes I know the vortec has some differences) is like pinnacle of old carburetored power. The amount of mods for that engine is insane. I'm a mopar fan but I'd take a sbc. Just LS models replaced them doesn't mean they aren't any good. Also as someone who has played in the mud with heavy engined trucks and lighter ones go with the lighter ones that extra weight up front really slows you down. My advice is turn up the 5.7L, forced induction would help you a lot. The right turbo can increase power and efficiency (proved it you drive it accordingly which no one does when they get a turbo haha) a supercharger will add power but at best your fuel mileage will not noticeably change.
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Old 10-03-2018, 03:12 AM
Jucebox Jucebox is offline
 
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I may be thinking about it a bit wrong. The weight thing really spoke to me, I may look at replacing the heads and the intake on the Vortec instead. Im sure I could get some great gains in that relatively inexpensive and easy mods. And replacing iron with aluminium probably wont hurt.
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Old 10-03-2018, 10:11 AM
sako1 sako1 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jucebox View Post
I may be thinking about it a bit wrong. The weight thing really spoke to me, I may look at replacing the heads and the intake on the Vortec instead. Im sure I could get some great gains in that relatively inexpensive and easy mods. And replacing iron with aluminium probably wont hurt.
The heads that are on that truck are THE best performing cast heads that gm EVER put on a small block. Weight savings will be minimal going to aluminum.
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Old 10-03-2018, 01:09 PM
Jucebox Jucebox is offline
 
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Thats depressing. 255hp and 330ft seem a bit restricted for what preople say they get out of a 350sb. But what im seeing, now that ive browsed a bit, is the cam is a big performance item for these, along with the exhaust is very restrictive.

And I still hate the spider intake, I know they have MPFI kits for the truck I may go at.

Last edited by Jucebox; 10-03-2018 at 01:19 PM. Reason: More to add
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