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  #181  
Old 04-17-2018, 10:23 AM
bobtodrick bobtodrick is offline
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Originally Posted by BillyT View Post
Sorry to offend all you wise men, with over 40 high end custom rifles and 40 plus years handling my rifles I have never been able to have one discharge on its own.Have had several factory rifles that have failed when the safety was released. Just so you know I did not come up with my method I was taught it by a ex military gent who has handled more firearms than any of you will do in 3 lifetimes. Have a. Nice day.
Hey, I'm never offended by someone who has no clue as to what they are talking about.
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  #182  
Old 04-17-2018, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Dean2 View Post

If it was an ex-military that taught it to you, remember, the entrance requirement for the military is a 90 I.Q. Same idiot leaders that made their men shoot 1000s of rounds a week for years with no ear protection and had multiple friendly fires where guys shot each other in the back because they were trained to walk locked and loaded, safety off, walking single file into a building or hot zone.

Never once was I taught or taught a single Soldier to walk "locked and loaded with the safety off" we call locked and loaded (READIED).

"Readied" is with a magazine fitted, pull cocking handle to the rear and let go (do not ride the cocking handle forward) to load a round. Hit the forward assist, engage the safety and close your ejection port.

We also taught a rule to never move the fire mode selector off safety until ready to fire. That was strictly engrained.

For the past 25 or so years hearing protection has been issued and available to all Soldiers to wear in the Canadian Forces. Where I worked We use to do round counts to keep track of exposure to loud noise and explosions we were exposed to.
This would be about when major industry started to actually enforce the wearing of ear protection of their workers.

As for the 90 IQ.......... you would have to show me the official documentation on standards for me to understand that claim.
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  #183  
Old 04-17-2018, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by BillyT View Post
Sorry to offend all you wise men, with over 40 high end custom rifles and 40 plus years handling my rifles I have never been able to have one discharge on its own.Have had several factory rifles that have failed when the safety was released. Just so you know I did not come up with my method I was taught it by a ex military gent who has handled more firearms than any of you will do in 3 lifetimes. Have a. Nice day.
This on of the funniest post I ever read,i love the wise men part.Your giving the crowd to much credit based on your over qualified talent.
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  #184  
Old 04-17-2018, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by ctd View Post
Never once was I taught or taught a single Soldier to walk "locked and loaded with the safety off" we call locked and loaded (READIED).

"Readied" is with a magazine fitted, pull cocking handle to the rear and let go (do not ride the cocking handle forward) to load a round. Hit the forward assist, engage the safety and close your ejection port.

We also taught a rule to never move the fire mode selector off safety until ready to fire. That was strictly engrained.

For the past 25 or so years hearing protection has been issued and available to all Soldiers to wear in the Canadian Forces. Where I worked We use to do round counts to keep track of exposure to loud noise and explosions we were exposed to.
This would be about when major industry started to actually enforce the wearing of ear protection of their workers.

As for the 90 IQ.......... you would have to show me the official documentation on standards for me to understand that claim.
To be fair to the modern military I am talking about the military 40 years ago as that is where my direct experience stops. My father retired form the Military in 1973 after joining in 1943. Time flies, you forget how long ago it actually was, seemed like only yesterday.

Last edited by Dean2; 04-17-2018 at 11:57 AM.
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  #185  
Old 04-17-2018, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Dean2 View Post
If it was an ex-military that taught it to you, remember, the entrance requirement for the military is a 90 I.Q. Same idiot leaders that made their men shoot 1000s of rounds a week for years with no ear protection and had multiple friendly fires where guys shot each other in the back because they were trained to walk locked and loaded, safety off, walking single file into a building or hot zone. (Don't flame me on the military, my Dad and lots of other family members served, and many died, and did so through both WWs and many conflicts. Doesn't make the military leadership a brain trust worried about their men.)
There is no stated IQ requirement for the military. Why did you even come up with that? You said is....not was....even if there was a was....your attempt at denigrating some honourable people is shameless.

Where do you fit in?

Over 140 - Genius or almost genius
120 - 140 - Very superior intelligence
110 - 119 - Superior intelligence
90 - 109 - Average or normal intelligence
80 - 89 - Dullness
70 - 79 - Borderline deficiency in intelligence
Under 70 - Feeble-mindedness
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  #186  
Old 04-17-2018, 12:26 PM
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I've carried firearms more days than most and the only time they are unloaded is if its in a vehicle (unless it's legal to have it loaded), stored, or I am climbing. I don't use firearms that aren't safe when "safe", I'm muzzle sensitive and triggers are only touched when I am ready. The only close calls I've every experienced or seen was when *******ery or plain old stupidity takes place.

I don't take the batteries off my drills and saws between cuts and holes and I've left my truck running when I get out too. Call me a rebel cowboy......
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  #187  
Old 04-17-2018, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Smokinyotes View Post
Having the firing Pin protruding against a live primer is just an accident waiting to happen and I wouldn’t hunt with or associate with someone who does something so silly.
This is sound reasoning.
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  #188  
Old 04-17-2018, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by CNP View Post
There is no stated IQ requirement for the military. Why did you even come up with that? You said is....not was....even if there was a was....your attempt at denigrating some honourable people is shameless.

Where do you fit in?

Over 140 - Genius or almost genius
120 - 140 - Very superior intelligence
110 - 119 - Superior intelligence
90 - 109 - Average or normal intelligence
80 - 89 - Dullness
70 - 79 - Borderline deficiency in intelligence
Under 70 - Feeble-mindedness
Wrong. The Military calls it an "aptitude test" but it is clearly an I.Q. test. They have been doing these for decades and still do them on every potential recruit. Also, I have no idea how saying recruits have to be of normal intelligence or better is in any way denigrating to people in the service. You don't have to score Mensa levels to get in, but that is true of most jobs. If I accused them of being low IQ, learning deficient I get it, but that is not what I said.

https://cfatready.ca/about-the-exams...ude-test-cfat/

http://cradpdf.drdc.gc.ca/PDFS/unc86/p531586.pdf

Canada – Forces Aptitude Test (CFAT)
In Canada, the standardized test used to assses recruits for the military is called the CFAT.

The purpose of the Forces Aptitude Test (CFAT) is to help determine to which specific military occupations you suit best.

There are two versions of the test. You can either do it by hand or do an electronic version called the electronic Forces Aptitude Test (eCFAT).

The CFAT divided into three components:

Verbal Skills – 15 questions (5 minutes)
Spatial Ability – 15 questions (10 minutes)
Problem Solving – 30 questions (30 minutes)


The use of paper, pens, pencils and erasers are allowed. You can not have any books, notes, dictionaries, thesaurus, writing paper, calculators, calculator watches, or any other sort of aid in the test room.

NOTE: We are a private company, and in no-way associated or related to the Canadian Forces / Canadian government.

Last edited by Dean2; 04-17-2018 at 01:42 PM.
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  #189  
Old 04-17-2018, 06:10 PM
Battle Rat Battle Rat is offline
 
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I've witnessed two unintentional discharges when closing the bolt.
Both times by me and try as I might I could not get it to happen again with either gun.
I bounced, slammed pulled the trigger then closed the bolt, tried everything but could not recreate it.
I can only assume that somehow I touched the trigger.
I was wearing gloves on one of those.
I did see a guy let the hammer slip on a BLR.
I have heard of one but have never witnessed a unintentional discharge while carrying with a loaded chamber.
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  #190  
Old 04-17-2018, 06:45 PM
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This whole thread grinds on like some of the discussions heard when the orange/scarlet rule got dropped back in the day.

Can’t say that we had a huge up tick in accidental shootings when the bright colours got dropped. Dose anyone have any hard numbers.
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  #191  
Old 04-18-2018, 11:13 AM
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I love the "I invented guns" guy as much as I like "I've killed every and all animals over the last 90 years" guy as well. A special shout out to the friends, neighbors uncle who is a "police and military expert out there told me so" guy too.

But let me just offer that .......

I go swimming after a big lunch.

I run with pointy scissors.

But I leave my chamber empty until I'm ready to shoot (or in a final stalk/set up in blind/tree stand situation). It's what I choose to do. I just feel better/safer that way.

So, for everyone, do what you want, it's up to you, but just be aware of the potential and understand the risks .... which, I would offer, most of you do - so I'm good with it.

At the end of the day - the right answer and procedure for you is one where you understand the potential and have made an educated decision on what you choose to do.
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  #192  
Old 04-18-2018, 02:09 PM
YYC338 YYC338 is offline
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Originally Posted by EZM View Post
I love the "I invented guns" guy as much as I like "I've killed every and all animals over the last 90 years" guy as well. A special shout out to the friends, neighbors uncle who is a "police and military expert out there told me so" guy too.

But let me just offer that .......

I go swimming after a big lunch.

I run with pointy scissors.

But I leave my chamber empty until I'm ready to shoot (or in a final stalk/set up in blind/tree stand situation). It's what I choose to do. I just feel better/safer that way.

So, for everyone, do what you want, it's up to you, but just be aware of the potential and understand the risks .... which, I would offer, most of you do - so I'm good with it.

At the end of the day - the right answer and procedure for you is one where you understand the potential and have made an educated decision on what you choose to do.
+1
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  #193  
Old 04-18-2018, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Dean2 View Post
Wrong. The Military calls it an "aptitude test" but it is clearly an I.Q. test. They have been doing these for decades and still do them on every potential recruit. Also, I have no idea how saying recruits have to be of normal intelligence or better is in any way denigrating to people in the service. You don't have to score Mensa levels to get in, but that is true of most jobs. If I accused them of being low IQ, learning deficient I get it, but that is not what I said.

https://cfatready.ca/about-the-exams...ude-test-cfat/

http://cradpdf.drdc.gc.ca/PDFS/unc86/p531586.pdf

Canada – Forces Aptitude Test (CFAT)
In Canada, the standardized test used to assses recruits for the military is called the CFAT.

The purpose of the Forces Aptitude Test (CFAT) is to help determine to which specific military occupations you suit best.

There are two versions of the test. You can either do it by hand or do an electronic version called the electronic Forces Aptitude Test (eCFAT).

The CFAT divided into three components:

Verbal Skills – 15 questions (5 minutes)
Spatial Ability – 15 questions (10 minutes)
Problem Solving – 30 questions (30 minutes)


The use of paper, pens, pencils and erasers are allowed. You can not have any books, notes, dictionaries, thesaurus, writing paper, calculators, calculator watches, or any other sort of aid in the test room.

NOTE: We are a private company, and in no-way associated or related to the Canadian Forces / Canadian government.
I'm wrong? Ha ha. I did that test in 1972. You clearly are over representing the CFAT and your knowledge on the subject. It's not an IQ test and there was never reference to an IQ of 90 (as you said) as a low standard for enrolment.

You attempted to serve up that the military would enrol people of lower IQ but you in fact served up a 90 IQ which is the average guy on AO, or anywhere for that matter. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about...

Your occupation taking in all the geniuses?
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  #194  
Old 04-18-2018, 06:54 PM
denied access denied access is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyT View Post
Sorry to offend all you wise men, with over 40 high end custom rifles and 40 plus years handling my rifles I have never been able to have one discharge on its own.Have had several factory rifles that have failed when the safety was released. Just so you know I did not come up with my method I was taught it by a ex military gent who has handled more firearms than any of you will do in 3 lifetimes. Have a. Nice day.
They are quite a bunch of dog pilers on here aint they. At least you took the heat off the jack asses running around cocked and locked. If they cannot chamber a round quick enough then they need to learn how to hunt. I really hate the mechanical safety is king crew but what ya gonna do.

I suspect you grew up in rural Sask in the 70s or somewhere else where Lee Enfields were the flavor of the day....and carrying like this is proper as long as it a is a Lee Enfield you are carrying. I was also taught as young fella to do this and this was how I carried a rifle for many years until someone took the time to explain it. With a more modern style actions it is an accident waiting to happen.

I never had an accidental discharge packing a gun with this method and spent a mile of sweat hunting everywhere there was something worth shooting but had the good fortune to have a friendly gunsmith show me how carrying one in the chamber uncocked was not a great idea a few years ago.

All my friends back in the Old Country (Sask) still carry this way as that is how their Enfield totin fathers taught them.
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  #195  
Old 04-18-2018, 07:33 PM
denied access denied access is offline
 
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They are quite a bunch of dog pilers on here aint they. At least you took the heat off the jack asses running around cocked and locked. If they cannot chamber a round quick enough then they need to learn how to hunt. I really hate the mechanical safety is king crew but what ya gonna do.

I suspect you grew up in rural Sask in the 70s or somewhere else where Lee Enfields were the flavor of the day....and carrying like this is proper as long as it a is a Lee Enfield you are carrying. I was also taught as young fella to do this and this was how I carried a rifle for many years until someone took the time to explain it. With a more modern style actions it is an accident waiting to happen.

I never had an accidental discharge packing a gun with this method and spent a mile of sweat hunting everywhere there was something worth shooting but had the good fortune to have a friendly gunsmith show me how carrying one in the chamber uncocked was not a great idea a few years ago.

All my friends back in the Old Country (Sask) still carry this way as that is how their Enfield totin fathers taught them.

Proper was the wrong word. Just not as dangerous is more accurate because of the half cock, protruding bolt and the way the LE action works. And I think if we are honest about it our dads probably started carrying cooey 22s like this. Bolt closed. And Enfields looked similar with the exposed hammer so they just did that and taught all of us some very bad habits. Same as some on here are teaching carrying loaded guns around to there kiddies.
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  #196  
Old 04-18-2018, 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by antlercarver View Post
I have shot buffalo, moose,elk, mule deer, wt deer, b bear, pigs wild and domestic, beef, wolf, coyote , lynx,fox, 100`s beaver, muskrat, mink and ducks, geese, grouse carrying a empty single shot firearm until I needed to load
one in the barrel. Maybe I could have done better walking around loaded
Beauty!
Imagine what you could have taken half in the bag
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  #197  
Old 04-18-2018, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Dean2 View Post
Wrong. The Military calls it an "aptitude test" but it is clearly an I.Q. test. They have been doing these for decades and still do them on every potential recruit. Also, I have no idea how saying recruits have to be of normal intelligence or better is in any way denigrating to people in the service. You don't have to score Mensa levels to get in, but that is true of most jobs. If I accused them of being low IQ, learning deficient I get it, but that is not what I said.

https://cfatready.ca/about-the-exams...ude-test-cfat/

http://cradpdf.drdc.gc.ca/PDFS/unc86/p531586.pdf

Canada – Forces Aptitude Test (CFAT)
In Canada, the standardized test used to assses recruits for the military is called the CFAT.

The purpose of the Forces Aptitude Test (CFAT) is to help determine to which specific military occupations you suit best.

There are two versions of the test. You can either do it by hand or do an electronic version called the electronic Forces Aptitude Test (eCFAT).

The CFAT divided into three components:

Verbal Skills – 15 questions (5 minutes)
Spatial Ability – 15 questions (10 minutes)
Problem Solving – 30 questions (30 minutes)


The use of paper, pens, pencils and erasers are allowed. You can not have any books, notes, dictionaries, thesaurus, writing paper, calculators, calculator watches, or any other sort of aid in the test room.

NOTE: We are a private company, and in no-way associated or related to the Canadian Forces / Canadian government.
Thesaurus is extinct and I got in by counting to three and then summed it up with one...1,2,3,1.....
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  #198  
Old 04-18-2018, 08:12 PM
raised by wolves raised by wolves is offline
 
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Muzzle control and trigger control.

Years in the army. Rounds down the spout when we went on patrol. Never had an AD. Then in law enforcement, always had a round chambered and never had an AD. Hunting since I was a kid, had a round chambered in either the blind or when pushing the bush or walking ridge lines and never had an AD.

But, I have been shot twice now out hunting, because of stupid people with their fingers on the trigger and their rifles pointed in my direction. I don't blame the safety mechanisms on the rifles.
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  #199  
Old 04-18-2018, 09:26 PM
Fordevr Fordevr is offline
 
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True Story:

I was doing a little fun shooting down at logs in my creek. I loaded a round, aimed and pulled the trigger. I was surprised that there was no bang. Thinking the round was a dud, I flicked the safety to on and BAAAANG!!!!!

You guessed it ... a Remington 700 faulty trigger.

Loaded a second round and pointed it at the creek. Pull trigger and nothing. Flick safety to safe and boooom!!! Had the trigger replaced and was a great gun I wish I never sold.

That said. If I’m hunting deer walking I have ammo in the clip.
Most of my hunting is predator hunting and I’m sitting and calling and there is a round chambered and ready with the safety on, because when they come in, stuff happens real fast.

My 2 cents.
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  #200  
Old 04-18-2018, 10:02 PM
antlercarver antlercarver is offline
 
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Earlier I tried to make the point that you can hunt successfully without haveing a loaded gun. Being safe is a state of mind. For myself useing a single shot gun I have to be more sure of my shot,more aware, not ready to blast away in a instant. I have a No. 1 ruger although I would like a Browning because it has a hammer. Useing a single shot gun totally changes you mind set.
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  #201  
Old 04-18-2018, 10:33 PM
6.5swedeforelk 6.5swedeforelk is offline
 
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Originally Posted by denied access View Post

...and carrying like this is proper as long as it a is a Lee Enfield you are carrying. I was also taught as young fella to do this and this was how I carried a rifle for many years until someone took the time to explain it. With a more modern style actions it is an accident waiting to happen.

I never had an accidental discharge packing a gun with this method and spent a mile of sweat hunting everywhere there was something worth shooting but had the good fortune to have a friendly gunsmith show me how carrying one in the chamber uncocked was not a great idea a few years ago.

All my friends back in the Old Country (Sask) still carry this way as that is how their Enfield totin fathers taught them.
I'm confused, exactly what do you mean with
"carrying like this"?

Cartridge chambered & safety on?

Or uncocked on a chambered round, as Billy advocated?

Last edited by 6.5swedeforelk; 04-18-2018 at 10:42 PM.
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  #202  
Old 04-19-2018, 05:58 AM
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Originally Posted by EZM View Post
I love the "I invented guns" guy as much as I like "I've killed every and all animals over the last 90 years" guy as well. A special shout out to the friends, neighbors uncle who is a "police and military expert out there told me so" guy too.

But let me just offer that .......

I go swimming after a big lunch.

I run with pointy scissors.

But I leave my chamber empty until I'm ready to shoot (or in a final stalk/set up in blind/tree stand situation). It's what I choose to do. I just feel better/safer that way.

So, for everyone, do what you want, it's up to you, but just be aware of the potential and understand the risks .... which, I would offer, most of you do - so I'm good with it.

At the end of the day - the right answer and procedure for you is one where you understand the potential and have made an educated decision on what you choose to do.

And there is the complete problem as there are various levels of education....lots, little or none.
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  #203  
Old 04-19-2018, 06:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fordevr View Post
True Story:

I was doing a little fun shooting down at logs in my creek. I loaded a round, aimed and pulled the trigger. I was surprised that there was no bang. Thinking the round was a dud, I flicked the safety to on and BAAAANG!!!!!

You guessed it ... a Remington 700 faulty trigger.

Loaded a second round and pointed it at the creek. Pull trigger and nothing. Flick safety to safe and boooom!!! Had the trigger replaced and was a great gun I wish I never sold.

That said. If I’m hunting deer walking I have ammo in the clip.
Most of my hunting is predator hunting and I’m sitting and calling and there is a round chambered and ready with the safety on, because when they come in, stuff happens real fast.

My 2 cents.
That is a scary situation for sure, rely on a mechanism to be your safety will or would be the end of a good trip.
I work my actions dry and try to see if they would dry fire but that muzzle end pointed in a direction if something was to go wrong is crucial to safety plus a place and time to have one round ready to go too.
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  #204  
Old 04-19-2018, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by 58thecat View Post
And there is the complete problem as there are various levels of education....lots, little or none.
Agreed - precisely to my point.

And, to be fair, there are lot's and lot's of guys out there who have been around guns for 113 years, and have killed one of every mammal, on every continent, and ,might have their wife's sister's cousin's uncle who led the assault on Bin Laden as a firearms expert to tell him ...... but if you are not taught (educated) about the risk of guns (or anything for that matter) - all that these guys are proving is how lucky/fortunate you may have been not to have had an incident.

I would say, however, the majority of the guys on here are probably just fine, and do know enough, to stay safe.

Like a cab driver - they drive 500 times more miles than we do, are on the road thousand of hours more than we are .......... but are they better drivers?
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  #205  
Old 04-19-2018, 09:21 AM
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My self I don't understand this. Lots of guys I have hunted with carry a round in the chamber with the safety on. When I was young I was told that a gun is either loaded or not. I've carried this on and I never use the safety on my gun. I can chamber a round pretty quick and have never regretted not having a round chambered.
I do sometimes load the gun on the tail end of a stalk if I think loading it is going to get me busted but otherwise its unloaded. (no round in the chamber)
when i was young, i was taught a gun is always loaded. you shoulda been taught that in your PAL/Rpal course and hunting safety as well.
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  #206  
Old 04-19-2018, 09:22 AM
denied access denied access is offline
 
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Originally Posted by 6.5swedeforelk View Post
I'm confused, exactly what do you mean with
"carrying like this"?

Cartridge chambered & safety on?

Or uncocked on a chambered round, as Billy advocated?
Read second post please.
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  #207  
Old 04-20-2018, 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by EZM View Post
Agreed - precisely to my point.

And, to be fair, there are lot's and lot's of guys out there who have been around guns for 113 years, and have killed one of every mammal, on every continent, and ,might have their wife's sister's cousin's uncle who led the assault on Bin Laden as a firearms expert to tell him ...... but if you are not taught (educated) about the risk of guns (or anything for that matter) - all that these guys are proving is how lucky/fortunate you may have been not to have had an incident.

I would say, however, the majority of the guys on here are probably just fine, and do know enough, to stay safe.

Like a cab driver - they drive 500 times more miles than we do, are on the road thousand of hours more than we are .......... but are they better drivers?
Exactly...tic toc...tic...toc...your time is up...oops...
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  #208  
Old 04-20-2018, 07:40 AM
barsik barsik is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: boyle,ab
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raised by wolves View Post
Muzzle control and trigger control.

Years in the army. Rounds down the spout when we went on patrol. Never had an AD. Then in law enforcement, always had a round chambered and never had an AD. Hunting since I was a kid, had a round chambered in either the blind or when pushing the bush or walking ridge lines and never had an AD.

But, I have been shot twice now out hunting, because of stupid people with their fingers on the trigger and their rifles pointed in my direction. I don't blame the safety mechanisms on the rifles.


you've been shot twice? hope you are ok.
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  #209  
Old 04-20-2018, 07:47 AM
Pathfinder76 Pathfinder76 is online now
 
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It’s funny that shooting ranges don’t let you walk around with loaded firearms with the safety on.
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  #210  
Old 04-20-2018, 10:46 AM
Ruby76 Ruby76 is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
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How about everyone take a step back and not get defensive for a minute. Think about others reading this thread who may not be very experienced and are here to learn. What have they learned in this thread that is going to keep them and people around them safe? What are you going to teach to a new shooter, to your kids? It's obvious that some here have been taught some not so safe practices. In all fairness, they may not even realize so.

I WILL NOT teach my kids or any new shooter that it is OK to carry one in the tube. Maybe they, after years of experience, may choose a situation where THEY feel comfortable and confident to do so. I would just hope that they practiced safety first, as I taught them.

I hope eveyone can at least agree, all situations aside, that to be 100% safe, you have be 100% sure that your gun is unloaded.
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