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  #271  
Old 02-02-2015, 11:19 PM
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sns2 sns2 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by twofifty View Post
What Rman did is awesome shooting and that's the kind of shooting the metallic silhouette community routinely does. These guys and gals are the rifleman's rifleman.

The naysayers would indeed get an education from attending, and better yet shooting, at a metallic silhouette match. Someone somewhere told me a few years ago not to project my limitations onto others, which is advice that I needed to hear at the time.
Somewhere on this 9 pg thread I applauded Rman for taking a stab at this challenge. Takes balls.

Throughout, I have said that I am sure that there are competition shooters who can do it. I am certainly not one of them.

I'm not trying to be a jerk, but if you're a silhouette guy, step up the the plate and do it yourself rather than slam guys who may be skeptical about this challenge. I don't recall anyone calling Rman a liar, but somewhere along the line he said there were AO members present. Why aren't they speaking up for their buddy and put this to rest?
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  #272  
Old 02-02-2015, 11:26 PM
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i have followed the exploits of hi power silhouette shooters with interest online but apparently they are too good for ao there hasnt been a silhouette shooter when you need one yet here i wish one would show up normal rifle and optics sometimes i wonder if they really exist
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  #273  
Old 02-02-2015, 11:49 PM
twofifty twofifty is offline
 
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Glad that is so for you sns2.

I was a SRAC silhouette competitor for 2 years, 2007 and 2008. Then I shifted my competitive focus to IPSC (action handgun). In those two years I shot 24 smallbore matches, with a 22LR rifle. Some were in the Lethbridge coulee, most in Cranbrook BC. Both are fantastic facilities.

My average score was not great, usually hitting less than half of the available targets. During that time, I raised my classification by one rank, from the novice's "B" to the "A" level. Those scores make me a punter, but a half-decent offhand rifle shot nonetheless. If you knew my name you could verify my "claims" online. The takeaway for you sns2 is that I am not a highpower silhouette shooter, or a 500 yard shooter of any kind.

My comments about what's possible offhand at 500 comes from having witnessed true greatness and sportsmanship when I competed at the 2007 Silhouette Nationals in Cranbrook. My takeaway from the prize table was a silicone bbq chicken baster. lol.

The highpower rifle guys were truly able to repeatedly hit 32"x26" rams at 500meters. I spotted some hits and the top shooters were regularly getting centre third hits rather than edge hits.

So then, since Rman's target measures 24", his performance falls within what I've seen done by others. Furthermore, no one has put up any valid reason for me to doubt the target posted by this gentleman.
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  #274  
Old 02-02-2015, 11:51 PM
260 Rem 260 Rem is offline
 
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Perhaps a exit strategy is in order? I could repost another 500yd Standing Offhand Challenge V2.0 with a 36" target ... and we could let this thread die. What think YE? This would provide an opportunity for any vitriol to dampen, and make the challenge attractive to more AO shooters.
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  #275  
Old 02-03-2015, 12:02 AM
twofifty twofifty is offline
 
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i have followed the exploits of hi power silhouette shooters with interest online but apparently they are too good for ao there hasnt been a silhouette shooter when you need one yet here i wish one would show up normal rifle and optics sometimes i wonder if they really exist
Marxman, have you ever paid money to shoot an official sanctioned match? Have you had the experience as a newcomer of stepping up to a line filled with seasoned shooters whose life passion that sport is? Knowing that you will suck, and also knowing that you will get better?

The above is what I do because it is fun, the other guys are usually sportsmen, the rules are clear, and the competition is fierce. Best of all shooting tips are shared and I get to improve and diversify my skillset.

I am not an internet shooter. I shoot for real in the real world of competition.
For silhouette I use a hunter stocked Anschutz 64 with a cheap 6-18x42 target turret scope.

The silhouette community is active in Alberta, and has an online presence.
Their organized matches happen regularly. Marxman I invite you to join them on the firing line, for your own reasons, and to witness greatness.
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  #276  
Old 02-03-2015, 12:10 AM
twofifty twofifty is offline
 
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Originally Posted by 260 Rem View Post
Perhaps a exit strategy is in order? I could repost another 500yd Standing Offhand Challenge V2.0 with a 36" target ... and we could let this thread die. What think YE? This would provide an opportunity for any vitriol to dampen, and make the challenge attractive to more AO shooters.
Wouldn't that be a 7 MOA target?
That's a lot of paint or magic marker.
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  #277  
Old 02-03-2015, 12:16 AM
260 Rem 260 Rem is offline
 
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Originally Posted by twofifty View Post
Wouldn't that be a 7 MOA target?
That's a lot of paint or magic marker.
Of course I could make it a maximum 36" target in case some shooters want t go smaller. Just that may more try if the challenge if they feel they have potential for success.
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  #278  
Old 02-03-2015, 12:24 AM
twofifty twofifty is offline
 
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I am glad you are being persistent and have posted the various challenges.
It sure has led to some great attempts, and many epic discussions.

I'm flirting with the idea of heading up to the rodeo this August; hopefully
an excuse comes up and I don't have to live up to my own BS.
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  #279  
Old 02-03-2015, 12:57 AM
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Originally Posted by twofifty View Post
Marxman, have you ever paid money to shoot an official sanctioned match? Have you had the experience as a newcomer of stepping up to a line filled with seasoned shooters whose life passion that sport is? Knowing that you will suck, and also knowing that you will get better?

The above is what I do because it is fun, the other guys are usually sportsmen, the rules are clear, and the competition is fierce. Best of all shooting tips are shared and I get to improve and diversify my skillset.

I am not an internet shooter. I shoot for real in the real world of competition.
For silhouette I use a hunter stocked Anschutz 64 with a cheap 6-18x42 target turret scope.

The silhouette community is active in Alberta, and has an online presence.
Their organized matches happen regularly. Marxman I invite you to join them on the firing line, for your own reasons, and to witness greatness.
i am practising with that goal in mind i know that i will still suck, never having been an athleticaly gifted sort but a lot of silhouette scores suck as i have seen on the alberta site
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  #280  
Old 02-03-2015, 01:14 AM
32-40win 32-40win is offline
 
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I know the BPCR guys are shooting 5-600 yds with 45-70's and stuff, never read the rules to what they do, or followed the discipline steadily though. Can't think of a good reason it can't be done with a 38-55, I vaguely remember it being talked about in the CBA or ASSRA circles, but they thought the 38-55 was too light for consistency. But, IIRC, people were trying it to keep the recoil punishment manageable. I expect there are threads in the CBA about it. Haven't read that site in a long time, as Firefox doesn't let me go there because of certificates. I am pretty sure Rman is not the only one out there doing it.
Why not? If you have the time and energy and patience and determination to do it, and the place to do it, go for it. To do it with the equipt he used, is a handicap, that makes doing it even more fun when it works for you.
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  #281  
Old 02-03-2015, 01:22 AM
wolf308 wolf308 is offline
 
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I will not object to a bigger target lol. ....... Seems like there's a big difference from 200 to 300 yards ( on a 10" target anyhow ) so I can't imagine( free handing standing anyhow ) what the jump to 500 will be. I know what 500 yards looks like and this is gonna be a tuff cookie.

I while ago I hit my 8x8 " target with great success at 400. But that was in the prone . Huge difference.

Can't wait to start my attempt at this. ( after the 300 yarder challenge) Dam work keeps getting in the way.

GL to all. But let the wolf win. Haha.

Last edited by wolf308; 02-03-2015 at 01:40 AM.
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  #282  
Old 02-03-2015, 08:43 AM
duceman duceman is offline
 
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worrying about 'sucking' while learning a sport and shooting next to seasoned shooters is pointless.
if you actually have an interest in being a better offhand shooter, there is only one way to get there.
the sentiment seems to be that 'great' shooters are born and show up at a match and dominate because it is their god given right and destiny.
the dedication, money, and resources required to excel in this sport is staggering to say the least.
when i started my f-class addiction 3 yrs ago, and thought i was doing pretty well, it take long to realize that the ladder to the floor that housed the group of first losers had many rungs.
i shot pretty well considering i was new, with equipment that was a long ways behind the guys ahead of me, i ran middle of the pack in the 4 matches i attended in a couple years.
spent a ton of money, tried to prepare for a good showing last year, and never even made a match due to work!
i did make three smaller 'fun' matches, and came close to the top in a couple classes, and actually won the rifle rodeo.
the whole point is, when guys are saying they won't try because they don't stand a chance in putting up a target, the only one they are beating is themselves. you guys would be shocked at how quickly you double or triple the abilities you have now with 3 or 4 saturday sessions spent with 50 rds of ammo and someone to give you a few basic simple pointers.
i questioned rman's target when i saw it at first as well. actually, still on the fence, but i got to thinking about a friend of my that used to shoot black powder silhouette, and said he regularly would hit a 36" saw blade with his 45-70 at 500 yds, along with the rest of the guys at his club in bc.
i'm actully gonna try to hit a couple sillywet matches this year, so will be doing some practicing as soon as i get the schedule cleared up a bit.
whether rman did or didn't shoot that target, with the gun he posted, really doesn't mean squat. if he bs'ed, he did it on the internet, big friggin deal. if he did do it, good for him, and in his mind he knows he has nothing to 'prove' to the internet. if he shows up to an event, and shoots along side the rest of the crowd, doing good bad or otherwise, we'd all have a good time and none of this playground crap would even rear it's ugly head.
i suggest that if the time spent reading and typing on this thread alone had been spent on the range, a few targets could have been posted by now. lee
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  #283  
Old 02-03-2015, 10:43 AM
Rman Rman is offline
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Originally Posted by sns2 View Post
I'm not naming any names. Not calling anyone names. But it's worth everyone stepping back and realizing that the challenge was likely posted by 260 Rem in response to what I consider a very divisive poster making claims of shooting 4 out of 5 shots, dead centre, off hand, on a pie plate at 500 yards iirc. Big arguments ensued. People were banned. Others left. All in the same time frame.

Rman stepped up and took a stab at a challenge I would see as near impossible. That doesn't mean it can't be done, but it would likely take a helluva special shooter.

The best shot I have personally seen is 260 Rem, who I would consider a friend in the context of the shooting community, but I don't think he'd even bother to try this one.

Others of you have stated that silhouette dudes do this regularly. If they do, then they are unreal shots.

I think it is fair for someone to ask for witnesses for such a shooting feat because it does seem beyond incredibly hard.

Rman, if you took Gitrdun and a few of the southern boys up on their offer, I am sure you'd find them to be A-1 guys, and I bet they'd even give it a whirl too. If you are successful, you just became the best damn shot on this board. Instantly.
I have had my fill with Gitrdun...he is far from an A-1 guy, and have zero interest with anything to do with him.
More to you point, it was incredibly hard, and it took a lot of targets, rounds, and time.

R.
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  #284  
Old 02-03-2015, 10:45 AM
Rman Rman is offline
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I agree sns. After all this mud slinging I would think that 2 posters on this thread would jump at a opportunity to display their excellent marksmanship instead of backpedaling.
Not wanting to spend time with someone where there is a stong mutual dislike is hardly backpedaling...

R.
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  #285  
Old 02-03-2015, 10:50 AM
Rman Rman is offline
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The reason a few people, me included, second guessed Rmans' shooting accomplishment is because of the following reasons. He hit the target 3/5 shots, with peep sights, with a big bore rifle, with a super super hot load over a distance of more than 1/2 a quarter section.
When he was questioned on some of this, he would give vague answers and when pressed for more details he would get aggressive, personal and condescending to the member asking the question.
And then, when challenged to duplicate the results things get really nasty.
If it was me, i would say "Any time, any place. Bring my scotch and your chrony so we can settle this once and for all so I can see you eat crow!!"

Rman mentioned some AO members were present. Why do they not speak up and come to his defence?
I gave vauge answers? Really? Considering the tone, and the nature of the questions being asked by a certain individual, I feel the response was justified. I am not sure how much more detail I can give.
Why should I have to duplicate the results? Given the time and effort involved to get the shots on the target in the first place, it really isn't practical.

R.
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  #286  
Old 02-03-2015, 10:52 AM
Rman Rman is offline
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Originally Posted by FreeLantz View Post
Sns with the best post(s) in this thread. Not that I don't believe Rman, but you did seem pretty vague and averted questions often. In the end I have no real reason to not believe you..........except.........that edmhunter keeps fawning over you like a prepubescent girl at a Justin Bieber concert. Makes me think something fishy is happening.
If edmhunter is involved in any capacity, I call BS. Sorry RMan, reign in your fan club a little bit.
If you have questions, please ask them.
I can't control who posts what, and I don't know edmhunter...

R.
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  #287  
Old 02-03-2015, 10:58 AM
Rman Rman is offline
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Originally Posted by sns2 View Post
Somewhere on this 9 pg thread I applauded Rman for taking a stab at this challenge. Takes balls.

Throughout, I have said that I am sure that there are competition shooters who can do it. I am certainly not one of them.

I'm not trying to be a jerk, but if you're a silhouette guy, step up the the plate and do it yourself rather than slam guys who may be skeptical about this challenge. I don't recall anyone calling Rman a liar, but somewhere along the line he said there were AO members present. Why aren't they speaking up for their buddy and put this to rest?
I may not have been called a liar directly, using that word, but it was more than implied.
Why would anyone else want to be a part of this? Speak up and get called out, and then have to deal with the .0001" Posse?
I am getting plenty of PM's, and am more than capable of dealing with this on my own. No posse required.

R.
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  #288  
Old 02-03-2015, 11:01 AM
Rman Rman is offline
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Originally Posted by 260 Rem View Post
Perhaps a exit strategy is in order? I could repost another 500yd Standing Offhand Challenge V2.0 with a 36" target ... and we could let this thread die. What think YE? This would provide an opportunity for any vitriol to dampen, and make the challenge attractive to more AO shooters.
Let er buck, as the damage has been done, and it would just carry over to another thread.

Make an amendment to the rules if you must, and it would be nice if more guys tried this. I think most would be supprised if they stuck with it and gave it a good go.

R.
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  #289  
Old 02-03-2015, 11:05 AM
edmhunter edmhunter is offline
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Originally Posted by Rman View Post
I may not have been called a liar directly, using that word, but it was more than implied.
Why would anyone else want to be a part of this? Speak up and get called out, and then have to deal with the .0001" Posse?
I am getting plenty of PM's, and am more than capable of dealing with this on my own. No posse required.

R.
This is the bullying you spoke of way back! Just for the record we would not know each other if we walked right past one another! So much for FreeLantz's stupid post eh?
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  #290  
Old 02-03-2015, 11:26 AM
norwestalta norwestalta is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rman View Post
I gave vauge answers? Really? Considering the tone, anehe nature of the questions being asked by a certain individual, I feel the response was justified. I am not sure how much more detail I can give.
Why should I have to duplicate the results? Given the time and effort involved to get the shots on the target in the first place, it really isn't practical.

R.
So would you consider this a fluke then? I got no doubt that the time and effort is required. I do believe that if enough lead is sent down range you're gonna hit something.
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  #291  
Old 02-03-2015, 11:29 AM
norwestalta norwestalta is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Rman View Post
Let er buck, as the damage has been done, and it would just carry over to another thread.

Make an amendment to the rules if you must, and it would be nice if more guys tried this. I think most would be supprised if they stuck with it and gave it a good go.

R.
I'll be trying it as soon as the snow drops enough for me to setup a target. Gotta get some reloading done as well.
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  #292  
Old 02-03-2015, 11:47 AM
Rman Rman is offline
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So would you consider this a fluke then? I got no doubt that the time and effort is required. I do believe that if enough lead is sent down range you're gonna hit something.
I can't fault your thinking, and obviously the more lead flung the higher the chances are of hitting something, but it is still only 5 shots per target.
Keeping that in mind, I don't know if I would call it a fluke or not? A sample of one shooter isn't much to go on.

I am at saying it is what it is at this point, and would like as many as possible to try it.

R.
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  #293  
Old 02-03-2015, 12:18 PM
1886 1886 is offline
 
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http://youtu.be/HO6ihrcukcc

Maybe some people would like to watch this.
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  #294  
Old 02-03-2015, 12:22 PM
edmhunter edmhunter is offline
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Originally Posted by 1886 View Post
http://youtu.be/HO6ihrcukcc

Maybe some people would like to watch this.
Can't be done! lol Notice the wind?
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  #295  
Old 02-03-2015, 12:43 PM
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Talking moose Talking moose is online now
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1886 View Post
http://youtu.be/HO6ihrcukcc

Maybe some people would like to watch this.
An unknown man on the Internet said he hit the target. Must be fact. Lol.... I actually am joking around and believe it can be done.
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  #296  
Old 02-03-2015, 12:45 PM
Salavee Salavee is offline
 
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I thought I was a fairly decent shot so just for kicks, I tried to shoot an un-assited consecutive 5 shot off- hand 4 " group @ 200 yds the other day. Very humbling for sure. My sub MOA .243 just wouldn't do it for me. Maybe have to get the barrel straightened. lol I think I'll leave the 500 yd challenge for another time...
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  #297  
Old 02-03-2015, 12:48 PM
twofifty twofifty is offline
 
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Quoting Duceman: "worrying about 'sucking' while learning a sport and shooting next to seasoned shooters is pointless.
if you actually have an interest in being a better offhand shooter, there is only one way to get there.

The sentiment seems to be that 'great' shooters are born and show up at a match and dominate because it is their god given right and destiny.
the dedication, money, and resources required to excel in this sport is staggering to say the least."


Comment: Much of the difference between a 'poor' offhand shooter and a 'good' offhand shooter is how much deliberate shooting time is put in. A multi-time silhouette National Champion showed me his training plan, which included nutrition and fitness! There was a lot of variety in the training activities, to mix it up, keep things interesting and balances the effort vs. reward mental equation.

I raised my game with a simple plan and an end goal: winning my club's fun in-house shooting trophy (yeah, its a small pond but the guys are good field shooters/hunters). 10,000 rounds of 22LR offhand practice over 2 years (alone, and alongside another guy who shared the same goal) with a rifle whose trigger mimicks my centrefire match rifle got me there.

The guy I trained with for two years came in 2nd, by 1 point, which goes to show that effort pays off. Practice at a less intense level allowed me to stay somewhat competitive, placing all over in the top 5 incl. another win. The less I shoot 22, the more my weekly centrefire scores become erratic....because my hold and follow-through degrade quickly.


Duceman: "the whole point is, when guys are saying they won't try because they don't stand a chance in putting up a target, the only one they are beating is themselves."

Comment: Yes. I've seen guys show up at a silhouette SB club match to see what it's all about but they 'forgot their rifle at home'. I've silently wondered what's in the gun case in that shiny truck parked next to my ****box ride.

Like you said duceman, those guys are only cheating themselves. One said he'd go practice and then come back....never saw him again. Meanwhile, on the line, were a mix of novices, intermediate and expert shooters. Nobody cares that a new guy sucks, and we are happy to coach or give tips to a guy who wants to get better. If he'd left his ego at home and given himself permission to suck publicly, he'd have been on his way.

What many don't get is that if they suck, they suck whether the rifle stays in the case or not. Shooting alongside better shooters raises a man's game. Success is contagious.


Duceman: "you guys would be shocked at how quickly you double or triple the abilities you have now with 3 or 4 saturday sessions spent with 50 rds of ammo and someone to give you a few basic simple pointers."

Comment: Totally agree.


Duceman: "i suggest that if the time spent reading and typing on this thread alone had been spent on the range, a few targets could have been posted by now. lee"

Comment: Good advice. Yesterday late afternoon a buddy and I (he is a natural, I have to keep working at it) lined up some shotgun shells in the snow, racing each other down the line. Nothing quite like hurrying to acquire a sight picture and finishing the trigger press before the other guy shoots that hull away. A bit of pressure and fun competition goes a long way.

Last edited by twofifty; 02-03-2015 at 01:09 PM.
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  #298  
Old 02-03-2015, 12:53 PM
duceman duceman is offline
 
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you get it twofifty; simply put, get off ur azzes and do some practice. hard to beat the 22 for that.
i'll doing some more gong testing today, offhand, with the 243 again, lee
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  #299  
Old 02-05-2015, 08:15 AM
700-223 700-223 is offline
 
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Gotta be honest - if I hit a 10" target once in 5 rounds offhand at 500 yds I'd be happy. Judging by my group sizes offhand my maximum hunting distance offhand is <150 yds, preferably < 100. Anything more I'm looking for a supported position. That said, I'm new to hunting, shooting larger calibers and probably overly cautious - I'd rather pass on a shot than risk wounding an animal.

Interesting thread, though. I'd propose a new contest - offhand at 250 yds, within the MPBR of most calibers for minimum group size. Say 4/5 within 6 inches is acceptable (with the idea that hitting with 9" is a clean kill on typical game animals), with bragging rights to the smallest group size. Needs to be cold bore, first five shots at the range (you can walk in circles for 5 miles to simulate hunting conditions if you like ). Should be easy really, since this is ~ 2.3 MOA (6/1.047/2.5), and every rifle in every magazine and on the EE shoots sub MOA, which means their owner must too.

Would like to see anyone who tries it post their groups no matter what. Would love to see how many groups 'pass' and in what calibers. Post your hunting and competition experience if you like. Hopefully, we'll see dozens of groups that pass. Just my $0.02

As a side benefit, if a 243 preferably (or 260 or 7mm-08 wins) I'll use it as evidence to convince my wife I need a new rifle

Hard to say I need another rifle with a 223, 308, and 7mm rem mag so any help is appreciated!!!
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  #300  
Old 02-05-2015, 08:29 AM
700-223 700-223 is offline
 
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Just read some more of this thread. As far as I'm concerned, you post it with a picture - it happened. If anyone cares to exaggerate their abilities, that's their problem - not mine. Would love to see a pic of your rifle too though - just killing time before getting back outside this weekend...
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