Restricted question?

spur · #1 02-29-2016, 05:23 PM

My wife got her restricted and wants to get a handgun but does she have to be a member of a gun club before she can get one? She took the course 2 years ago but can't remember the requirements or if certain things have changed!

whiteout · #2 02-29-2016, 05:29 PM

Legally, no.

The CFO will make up a requirement to have one in order to complete the transfer. At that point you can choose to either bend to their demand or fight them.

J0HN_R1 · #3 02-29-2016, 05:31 PM

By law, she shouldn't...

I have to renew this year, and plan on challenging any "request" to provide a membership.

And I no longer have any restricted firearms... But plan on buying another soon, before my renewal.

whiteout · #4 02-29-2016, 05:33 PM

Can you keep you keep us updated John? I'm putting off my next R purchase until after my current membership expires just so I can get the CFO in front of a judge.

bat119 · #5 02-29-2016, 05:45 PM

When you buy a restricted these days does the CFO ask for proof of membership or just when renewing your RPAL?

lannie · #6 02-29-2016, 06:39 PM

Join Sparwood or CMGC for 35.00 or 40.00 and shes done.

Xbolt7mm · #7 02-29-2016, 07:43 PM

I'm not sure about the rest of you but I have to show proof of a membership before I can buy a handgun.

Purple Farmer · #8 02-29-2016, 08:49 PM

Am I mistaken in believing that the ATT cannot be issued without proof of range membership?

I am positive I had to submit prior to pick up.

old dog · #9 02-29-2016, 09:07 PM

Iam renewing my PAL this year. 5 years ago when I renewed I had to show I was a club member at a range. I just called last week wrt to this subject and yes I have to do the same this time. What I also found out was not every province has this requirements. The CFO for the province can implement their own requirements somehow. Good luck

morinj · #10 02-29-2016, 10:02 PM

Go to Phoenix gun range, tell them your situation, and I believe they can sell you a membership called the shooters guild, (not sure I got the name right) this will allow you to purchase restricted firearms, and pick them up. Not jut their but anywhere however you will not have access to the shooting range! The cost is approxamitly $40. They also have a pretty nice selection of pistols! Enjoy your purchase!!

DiabeticKripple · #11 02-29-2016, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purple Farmer

Am I mistaken in believing that the ATT cannot be issued without proof of range membership?

I am positive I had to submit prior to pick up.

There is no more ATT.

Legally you don't need one, but the CFO held up my transfer and sent me a letter stating that they needed to have the proper documentation (range membership, or collectors status) on file before they could approve it.

Xbolt7mm · #12 03-01-2016, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by old dog

Iam renewing my PAL this year. 5 years ago when I renewed I had to show I was a club member at a range. I just called last week wrt to this subject and yes I have to do the same this time. What I also found out was not every province has this requirements. The CFO for the province can implement their own requirements somehow. Good luck

But that's a completely different issue than the op is asking, there was a thread last week about that one

whiteout · #13 03-01-2016, 11:24 AM

The amount of willing capitulation to made up rules in this thread is very disheartening to say the least.

Purple Farmer · #14 03-01-2016, 11:44 AM

Well I just had a long conversation with Alberta CFO, UNDER c42 no more ATT will be issued (it's now part of your RPAL) unless you are transporting a restricted gun for the purpose of sale or travelling to a range outside of your province in which case a short or long term ATT would be required.

Further, it is a mandatory requirement for you to have range membership unless you are a collector or dealer.

whiteout · #15 03-01-2016, 11:47 AM

They didn't tell you which law requires it did they?

The reason being that there simply isn't one, but people just bend over for them instead of taking them to court over it.

Throttle_monkey1 · #16 03-01-2016, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purple Farmer

Well I just had a long conversation with Alberta CFO, UNDER c42 no more ATT will be issued (it's now part of your RPAL) unless you are transporting a restricted gun for the purpose of sale or travelling to a range outside of your province in which case a short or long term ATT would be required.

Further, it is a mandatory requirement for you to have range membership unless you are a collector or dealer.

Read what whiteout said. It's not law, it's the CFO's whim.

Purple Farmer · #17 03-01-2016, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whiteout

They didn't tell you which law requires it did they?

The reason being that there simply isn't one, but people just bend over for them instead of taking them to court over it.

Actually I didn't ask, I'm sorry if you think I'm a lesser person because of that.

Show me that there is no legislation requiring it and I may look into it further, looks like you have a hill to die on, what is the court case number you have filed so I can look it up?

bat119 · #18 03-01-2016, 12:08 PM

I just had the same conversation with the Sask CFO

If you own a hand gun for

A) target shooting a range membership required if you shoot it or not.

B) collection no club membership required what can be considered a collectible is up to the CFO. Eg, a 1911 from the war-yes a new 1911-no.

The CFO'S have the authority to use the existing laws any way they choose, in some cases its like a vegetarian put in charge of the meat dept.
I haven't bought a restricted lately so the only time the membership deal comes up for me is RPAL renewal time I give them a 1 year pistol club number they give me a 5 year RPAL. None of it makes sense

Permitted purposes

28 A chief firearms officer may approve the transfer to an individual of a restricted firearm or a handgun referred to in subsection 12(6.1) (pre-December 1, 1998 handguns) only if the chief firearms officer is satisfied

(a) that the individual needs the restricted firearm or handgun

(i) to protect the life of that individual or of other individuals, or

(ii) for use in connection with his or her lawful profession or occupation; or

(b) that the purpose for which the individual wishes to acquire the restricted firearm or handgun is

(i) for use in target practice, or a target shooting competition, under conditions specified in an authorization to transport or under the auspices of a shooting club or shooting range that is approved under section 29, or

(ii) to form part of a gun collection of the individual, in the case of an individual who satisfies the criteria described in section 30.

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/a...5.html#docCont

whiteout · #19 03-01-2016, 04:28 PM

And this is why they need to be hauled into court and a precedent set. The section you posted says nothing about needing a membership to approve a transfer, possess a restricted or acquire one.

@Purple_Farmer, I never insinuated you were a lesser person. The FA or CCoC contains no language stating a requirement to have a range membership to acquire, possess or use a restricted. It is simply the CFO using Section 28b to try and create hurdles.

As for my case, I'll be starting a transfer of a restricted on July 2 when my current membership runs out. When they deny it, I'll be asking for a formal refusal. If they don't supply one and just sit on it for “processing”, it makes a great case for constructive refusal.

DiabeticKripple · #20 03-01-2016, 04:32 PM

Why don't you take them to court? Ill just email them a copy of my membership and carry on.

Purple Farmer · #21 03-01-2016, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whiteout

And this is why they need to be hauled into court and a precedent set. The section you posted says nothing about needing a membership to approve a transfer, possess a restricted or acquire one.

@Purple_Farmer, I never insinuated you were a lesser person. The FA or CCoC contains no language stating a requirement to have a range membership to acquire, possess or use a restricted. It is simply the CFO using Section 28b to try and create hurdles.

As for my case, I'll be starting a transfer of a restricted on July 2 when my current membership runs out. When they deny it, I'll be asking for a formal refusal. If they don't supply one and just sit on it for “processing”, it makes a great case for constructive refusal.

Well good luck, clearly it is your hill, keep us posted.

I do sincerely wish you the best, but, have to wonder if it's worth it.

bat119 · #22 03-01-2016, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whiteout

And this is why they need to be hauled into court and a precedent set. The section you posted says nothing about needing a membership to approve a transfer, possess a restricted or acquire one.

What are you going to use for a reason for owning a restricted?

The only choices are target shooting or collection?

whiteout · #23 03-01-2016, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bat119

What are you going to use for a reason for owning a restricted?

The only choices are target shooting or collection?

Declared use would be target shooting.

260 Rem · #24 03-01-2016, 04:53 PM

I purchased two restricteds during Feb, one from a Saskatchewan seller and the other from an Alberta seller. Transfers were completed in a matter of days. No request for confirmation of Range membership.

whiteout · #25 03-01-2016, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 260 Rem

I purchased two restricteds during Feb, one from a Saskatchewan seller and the other from an Alberta seller. Transfers were completed in a matter of days. No request for confirmation of Range membership.

Did you previously submit a membership to them?

bat119 · #26 03-01-2016, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whiteout

Declared use would be target shooting.

How would you prove your use is target shooting if you don't belong to an approved shoot range? The only legal place to shoot a restricted?

whiteout · #27 03-01-2016, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bat119

How would you prove your use is target shooting if you don't belong to an approved shoot range? The only legal place to shoot a restricted?

You just need to declare use, not prove it; the CFO would have to show why the declaration is insufficient.

You also don't need a membership to go to a range and shoot your restricted. There are many ranges that let you do walk in shooting.

gs100bert · #28 03-01-2016, 05:12 PM

i had to show proof to transfer a hand gun to me and buy a new membership at the range to have that proof . but it was a prohibited hand gun might be different .

bat119 · #29 03-01-2016, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whiteout

You just need to declare use, not prove it; the CFO would have to show why the declaration is insufficient.

You also don't need a membership to go to a range and shoot your restricted. There are many ranges that let you do walk in shooting.

Good luck let us know how it works for you

deepwater · #30 03-01-2016, 05:17 PM

I would suggest going the RCMP firearms program page. I just printed off 5 pages of question/answeres and think most of these isssues are explained. It points out that under the Common Sense part a few things came into force on 2015 Sept 2, the different costs and that under some conditions ATTs become a condition of a licence. I keep up my BC club membership, a pretty good group of people, so no issue there, and insurance issues for the Club require membership to use the ranges. I have the RPal, and the current paper ATT. As I am renewing, I have been told that my ATT will be part of the conditions of my new Firearms Licence . One of our problems is that while we hasve a Federal system, Provincial CFOs seem to have some "discretion" and are not all on the same page..