Positive CWD Result

[crblair]

Just curious, what if you choose to take your deer in to be mounted? How or is there a way to have your animal tested for CWD while also retaining the head for taxidermy?

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by crblair

Just curious, what if you choose to take your deer in to be mounted? How or is there a way to have your animal tested for CWD while also retaining the head for taxidermy?

It's described in the regs what's needed, you can do euros or full mounts after the regions are removed for testing.

LC

[purgatory.sv]

Originally Posted by crblair

Just curious, what if you choose to take your deer in to be mounted? How or is there a way to have your animal tested for CWD while also retaining the head for taxidermy?

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

It's described in the regs what's needed, you can do euros or full mounts after the regions are removed for testing.

LC

thank you

[dustinjoels]

I mounted a mule deer I took at wainwright 2 years ago. Your taxidermist can submit the required samples.

[Ranger CS]

Originally Posted by bessiedog

What do they do about it in Sask?

and why is it NOT in Manitoba...? They test there and they have not discovered one single case...

am I missing something?


I am going to talk with my local butcher...... all I give him is trim to grind.... and I don;t do that till late Jan cause I figure he's all done by then and he's cleaned his gear up pretty good by then.

I cut up my own and I figure that mountain elk and deer will be the last to get infected.


Prions are mutated proteins..... not a bacteria... not a virus..... and they stay on plants... get absorbed into plants from infected ground.... this is pretty damn serious stuff.

Its not like you can bleach the ground.

Fire dosen't seem to effectively remove it either.

If all the data I've read is true.... this could be the slowest moving unnoticed public health disaster to hit us... if it can cross back to cattle and humans easily. And that should happen if the prions are able to mutate... which, well they should.. cause they have already.

Sad state of affairs for more than just hunters. Serious public response is needed, but I suspect its too easy to avoid, refute, or pass the buck politically because its a complex issue that makes voters' heads hurt.

Honestly.... I may give up hunting big game if the disease reaches my mountains.

The prions your refer to Rob, if similar to the BSE prion are almost impossible to destroy. In the case of the BSE prion virtually nothing will destroy them including an autoclave which is used to sterilize surgical instruments. If this is the case with the CWD prion, no matter how carefully butchers clean their knives, grinders and butcher blocks there would be a real risk of cross contamination to any meat subsequently exposed to this specific environment.
I share your concern regarding the potential of this becoming a major threat to public health on a very large scale.

[CMichaud]

Originally Posted by Ranger CS

The prions your refer to Rob, if similar to the BSE prion are almost impossible to destroy. In the case of the BSE prion virtually nothing will destroy them including an autoclave which is used to sterilize surgical instruments. If this is the case with the CWD prion, no matter how carefully butchers clean their knives, grinders and butcher blocks there would be a real risk of cross contamination to any meat subsequently exposed to this specific environment.
I share your concern regarding the potential of this becoming a major threat to public health on a very large scale.

This is my understanding as well.

It also begs the question of what happens to the carcass from a CWD positive deer.

I suspect that some deer will be removed from a CWD zone and brought into a non-CWD zone.

The deer is processed and the head submitted eg deposited in Edmonton

So where are the carcasses being disposed? Even if dropped in a CWD zone, if not burnt or buried (?) could the disease not continue to spread?

If it takes 2-3 months to get results and they come back positive that carcass is already likely dumped or buried in a non-CWD zone?

From http://aep.alberta.ca/fish-wildlife/...ng-Oct2009.pdf

Carcass Transportation Guidelines for transporting hunter-killed deer and elk OUT OF CWD At Risk areas within Alberta

To contain the potential spread of CWD, only the following carcass parts may be transported out of At RiskWildlife Management Units.

• Quarters or portions of meat with no part of the spinal column or head attached (ensure hind quarter with tag attached also has evidence of sex and species).
• Boned-out meat (ensure the quarter with tag attached and evidence of sex and species does not get boned out). • Processed meat (commercially cut and wrapped).
• Heads that will be submitted to a Fish and Wildlife office outside the CWD At Risk area. It is MANDATORY that all deer heads from deer harvested within the At Risk areas be submitted for CWD testing. (Check the Alberta Guide To Hunting Regulations 2009 for office hours.)
• Cleaned skull caps with antlers attached (no meat or tissue attached).
• Antlers with no meat or tissue attached.
• Hides with no heads attached.
• Finished taxidermy heads.

Note: Your voluntary participation in carcass transportation is greatly appreciated.

[Don Meredith]

You have to drill down a long way on the AEP CWD website to find this but according to the Info. sheet "CWD-positive Deer"
http://aep.alberta.ca/fish-wildlife/...t-Fall2015.pdf

* if not eaten by hunter, meat
should be buried in a Class 2 landfill
or incinerated.
* CWD-positive meat should NOT
be fed to dogs nor left on the
landscape

Not sure that advice is being followed. As you say by the time you learn, the carcass remains might have been disposed without due care.

[Lefty-Canuck]

How many CWD animals die due to nature vs. hunters and are left on the landscape?

LC

[Don Meredith]

I'm sure most must die from the disease and in a CWD area. The issue are those carcasses that are transported out of the CWD area and disposed in a non-CWD area.

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

It's described in the regs what's needed, you can do euros or full mounts after the regions are removed for testing.

LC

I looked it up in the regs. It is pretty clear. What is not clear is why the stuff on CWD is in 3 different parts of the regs?

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by CMichaud

This is my understanding as well.

It also begs the question of what happens to the carcass from a CWD positive deer.

I suspect that some deer will be removed from a CWD zone and brought into a non-CWD zone.

The deer is processed and the head submitted eg deposited in Edmonton

So where are the carcasses being disposed? Even if dropped in a CWD zone, if not burnt or buried (?) could the disease not continue to spread?

If it takes 2-3 months to get results and they come back positive that carcass is already likely dumped or buried in a non-CWD zone?

From http://aep.alberta.ca/fish-wildlife/...ng-Oct2009.pdf

Carcass Transportation Guidelines for transporting hunter-killed deer and elk OUT OF CWD At Risk areas within Alberta

To contain the potential spread of CWD, only the following carcass parts may be transported out of At RiskWildlife Management Units.

• Quarters or portions of meat with no part of the spinal column or head attached (ensure hind quarter with tag attached also has evidence of sex and species).
• Boned-out meat (ensure the quarter with tag attached and evidence of sex and species does not get boned out). • Processed meat (commercially cut and wrapped).
• Heads that will be submitted to a Fish and Wildlife office outside the CWD At Risk area. It is MANDATORY that all deer heads from deer harvested within the At Risk areas be submitted for CWD testing. (Check the Alberta Guide To Hunting Regulations 2009 for office hours.)
• Cleaned skull caps with antlers attached (no meat or tissue attached).
• Antlers with no meat or tissue attached.
• Hides with no heads attached.
• Finished taxidermy heads.

Note: Your voluntary participation in carcass transportation is greatly appreciated.

What are we supposed to do with the parts that we are not allowed to transport?

[Ranger CS]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

How many CWD animals die due to nature vs. hunters and are left on the landscape?

LC

Good point Lefty, my guess is away more than killed by hunters. Makes me
sad to think of how many of these CWD affected animals die a very slow and hideous death to then be consumed by predators an scavengers.

[Lefty-Canuck]

You guys realize animals do not know borders...be it WMU, provincial or national. When you remove a bunch of animals from one area be it hunting, culls, hard winters, or disease....the lower population causes other animals to move in due to the higher carrying capacity of the vacant lands, than surrounding areas.

So the migration from areas likely has more to do with the spread than a guy dumping bones on the family farm from the deer he shot around Suffield or in Camp Wainwright....just a guess.

LC

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

You guys realize animals do not know borders...be it WMU, provincial or national. When you remove a bunch of animals from one area be it hunting, culls, hard winters, or disease....the lower population causes other animals to move in due to the higher carrying capacity of the vacant lands, than surrounding areas.

So the migration from areas likely has more to do with the spread than a guy dumping bones on the family farm from the deer he shot around Suffield or in Camp Wainwright....just a guess.

LC

I disagree and think you are comparing fruit baskets.

Lower population densities have shown both lower infection rates AND slower expansion rates.


Transporting CWD via carcass disposal has the potential to bring the disease into an environment hundreds of miles from any other source. Something that natural dispersal through animal migration is not capable of.



Policy advisors have suggested initiating CWD protocols to provincial and federal agencies which hunters will likely consider to be quite dramatic, but fall in line with concerns being raised here.

ALL ungulates killed must be immediately taken to a provincial facility.
ALL ungulates will be tested with results obtained within a few days.
Any CWD positive animals will be kept by the gov and disposed of under new guidelines.
Only CWD negative animals can be transported from a CWD testing facility.
ALL animals must be tested CWD negative before being accepted by a licenced butcher.

I am quite pleasantly surprised by both the concern and understanding being expressed in this thread. Good to see.

[CMichaud]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

You guys realize animals do not know borders...be it WMU, provincial or national. When you remove a bunch of animals from one area be it hunting, culls, hard winters, or disease....the lower population causes other animals to move in due to the higher carrying capacity of the vacant lands, than surrounding areas.

So the migration from areas likely has more to do with the spread than a guy dumping bones on the family farm from the deer he shot around Suffield or in Camp Wainwright....just a guess.

LC

Not disagreeing but I didn't write the AEP link provided above. Seems someone in the AEP seems to think that transporting brain/spinal material out of CWD zone is not a good idea.

There are two key parts as I see it...

1. Controlling the spread of the disease - eg how can we mitigate spreading of the CWD.

2. Determining the impact of eating infected animals - is it transferable to humans? If so what risk is it to us? Is it only eating specific portions eg the brain/spinal tissues that affect us?

So much to be learned yet.

[Amateur Hunter]

Originally Posted by Fowl91

I agree, and part of the reason why i chose to go and speak to the owner was to help them have a plan in the future. Unfortunately we cannot rely on everyone to disclose their results voluntarily, so the butcher shop has to have a bulletproof plan in place to protect themselves and their customers.

Thanks, tough pill to go without venison this year.

And this deer was taken in WMU 156... for those that asked.

Can you please answer the question which butcher shop did you have your sausages done.

[Lefty-Canuck]

There has been no "official" direction provided by the Governemt to anyone. There are still many animals from "mandatory" testing areas not being turned in to be tested....heck they still only ask for deer.

LC

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

There has been no "official" direction provided by the Governemt to anyone. There are still many animals from "mandatory" testing areas not being turned in to be tested....heck they still only ask for deer.

LC

Nope, they are "stuck in the headlights"....

Reminds me of the BSE disaster where government officials in the UK spent years telling people that they could not get infected by eating Mad Cows,

Until people started dying....

[EZM]

Originally Posted by Amateur Hunter

Can you please answer the question which butcher shop did you have your sausages done.

That information could lead to significant damage and loss of business to the butcher shop - you do realize that don't you? That information helps nobody at this point.

If you are concerned for yourself, do what most of us do, handle, butcher and grind your own meat.

The OP made a mistake. He has recognized his mistake.

At this point there is no evidence to suggest CWD is dangerous to humans when eaten. As many others have stated in numerous threads, there are many provinces and states where CWD is common and there is zero testing and zero concern.

[Amateur Hunter]

Originally Posted by EZM

That information could lead to significant damage and loss of business to the butcher shop - you do realize that don't you? That information helps nobody at this point.

If you are concerned for yourself, do what most of us do, handle, butcher and grind your own meat.

The OP made a mistake. He has recognized his mistake.

At this point there is no evidence to suggest CWD is dangerous to humans when eaten. As many others have stated in numerous threads, there are many provinces and states where CWD is common and there is zero testing and zero concern.

Now you sound like our government, protecting businesses not people.

All I want to know is if we used the same butcher . That's all.

[crazy_davey]

Originally Posted by Amateur Hunter

All I want to know is if we used the same butcher . That's all.

And I think you have every right to be concerned if you took deer meat to a butcher in the area.

[densa44]

I live in a CWD zone and we have deer all over the place and now we have gut/bone piles all over the place too.

I'd feel better if there was a program designed to eradicate the disease.

Is it endemic to western Canada or is it related to deer farming.

Can it cross to other species, it sounds like it could or does.

Good post.

[sillyak]

Originally Posted by densa44

I live in a CWD zone and we have deer all over the place and now we have gut/bone piles all over the place too.

I'd feel better if there was a program designed to eradicate the disease.

Is it endemic to western Canada or is it related to deer farming.

Can it cross to other species, it sounds like it could or does.

Good post.

The origins are unknown, but it was first noticed in farmed game animals in Colorado. It was brought here by game farms.

It has been shown in the lab to be able to cross the species barrier to some animals, but not others. So far it has been shown to not be able to infect humans (thousands of infected animals are consumed every year by humans) however, prions can mutate.

The consequence of it crossing to humans would be severe.

Prion diseases do not just make you sick. Prion diseases are scary: there is no treatment, they are always fatal. 100% fatal.

[Fowl91]

Originally Posted by Amateur Hunter

Now you sound like our government, protecting businesses not people.

All I want to know is if we used the same butcher . That's all.

As stated above that info could be harmful to the business. I can tell you that I'm assured there was no cross contamination.
Send me a PM and we can chat further.

[Bub]

Originally Posted by Fowl91

Send me a PM and we can chat further.

Indeed. The right way to do it. Just shoot him a PM saying I took my meat to such and such, is that the one? And he will tell you yes or no.

[HowSwedeItIs]

Originally Posted by Fowl91

As stated above that info could be harmful to the business. I can tell you that I'm assured there was no cross contamination.
Send me a PM and we can chat further.

You might be assured there was no cross contamination, but your thinking wouldn't be based on anything scientific. Once the prions are on knives, grinders, cutting boards there is absolutely no way to properly clean them

[Dewey Cox]

Everybody panic!

[Battle Rat]

Originally Posted by Amateur Hunter

Can you please answer the question which butcher shop did you have your sausages done.

What would you do if it is the same butcher you use?
What if non submitted meat was processed by you butcher?
What if a positive animal from a non "mandatory" testing zone made its way to your butcher?
The only way to be 100% sure you are not consuming CWD deer is to not eat deer.

[Sneeze]

Something not really discussed here but definitely not missed by the scientists is CJD can be dormant in humans for 20-60 years before showing up and killing you horribly.

Not much for apocalyptic flair - but we already could have a big problem and just don't know it yet.

I would be extreme with my diligence in working clean while field dressing and processing meat.

If you haven't, take a moment to read about Prion diseases. Will scare you.

[reddeerguy2015]

Originally Posted by Sneeze

Something not really discussed here but definitely not missed by the scientists is CJD can be dormant in humans for 20-60 years before showing up and killing you horribly.

Not much for apocalyptic flair - but we already could have a big problem and just don't know it yet.

I would be extreme with my diligence in working clean while field dressing and processing meat.

If you haven't, take a moment to read about Prion diseases. Will scare you.

So much for sleeping tonight...