Best bolt action caliber.

[Dick284]

Originally Posted by Don_Parsons

Not really, like my post above mentioned, ok critters.

Even if they were Bruins, I still wouldn't post them.
Harvesting is self, self best at what we are pursuing.
I have no record book this or that since I'm a game harvester.

Nothing more, and nothing less.

Claim to fame of nothing but my own personal best of what critters allow them selves to be harvested.

Don

PS: Offer still stands

I was referencing the pm comment.

PS: I'm still waiting so I can send you a pm.

[SlightlyDistracting]

Not sure what he even means. Lol

[Dick284]

Originally Posted by SlightlyDistracting

Not sure what he even means. Lol

Dandy Don hasn't activated the PM function on his account.
Waitaminit, you have to deactivate that option, to get it the way it sits as of now.

What's up with that Big Shoots?

[Don_Parsons]

Yes, I'll try sending a pm to you.

I asked on the general thread how to adjust the pm setting since I can receive some, and at times it dosen't.

Not a technology fellow.

I'll send a pm

Don

[Dick284]

Originally Posted by Don_Parsons

Yes, I'll try sending a pm to you.

I asked on the general thread how to adjust the pm setting since I can receive some, and at times it dosen't.

Not a technology fellow.

I'll send a pm

Don

That's a friend request!

Try this Don


User CP
Edit options
Click the enable PM's

[Don_Parsons]

Sweet, thank you my friend, I think it's working.

I sent a pm, text me later and I'll send a few archery harvests.

Nothing out of the ordinary.

Don

[270person]

Originally Posted by Coiloil37

As per Nosler a .308 can start a 150 a little over a 100 fps faster then a .270 can start a 150. The .308 can start a 165 the same speed the .270 starts it's 150.

I didn't bother to run them through the calculator to check down range velocity but my money says they're to close to care. Lets not forget the .308 can also shoot 180-240 grain bullets as well.

Just keeping the facts straight, I use a .270 and don't even own a .308 anymore.

The Nosler info I have doesn't concur. Even at max loads. Take a look at the BC's as well.

I don't see anything significant that a 308 does better with a 150 than the 270 unless it's in auto load rifles. As for 240 grain bullets I can't say as I've seen a lot of guys/girls using them and might even go so far as asking why they would.

[270person]

Originally Posted by JD848

That is only your choice,lotsa of good old cartridges and the new cool kid bought one 37 years ago ,meaning me a 7mm 08 at gun store in kenora Ontario in 1980 or 81.Nothing new to me, specially guys who try and tell what there pet cartridge other's should shoot.Plus your wrong on the 270.In fact the 7mm/308 wildcat came out in 1958 which is almost the same as the 7mm 08.

Nothing about "pet" cartridges despite the site name. I actually prefer the 7mm RM. I own several cals but I will defend the 270 for sure. The caliber gets yawns just like the 06 does and for no real good reasoning other than it's been around for a long time.

Let me know what I'm wrong on or better yet, let me know where your fave 7-08 puts the 270 to shame.

[Nyksta]

Originally Posted by 270person

Nothing about "pet" cartridges despite the site name. I actually prefer the 7mm RM. I own several cals but I will defend the 270 for sure. The caliber gets yawns just like the 06 does and for no real good reasoning other than it's been around for a long time.

Let me know what I'm wrong on or better yet, let me know where your fave 7-08 puts the 270 to shame.

270 win is my favorite long action cartridge. I have suggested it as a first choice for many people. I just happen to have specific reasons why i dont like long action, and thus i go 308 win. But 270 is outstanding.

[Pathfinder76]

I’m curious as to the specific reasons?

[Nyksta]

Originally Posted by chuck

I’m curious as to the specific reasons?

I find short action easier to take the bolt out with my cheek riser left installed, shorter smoother bolt travel. Lighter rifle, scope mounts are closer, my ammo fits in my pocket better, smaller containers to store ammo. My rifle center of balance is closer for a tighter freehand hold. Less barrel length used up by cartridge length.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Nyksta

I find short action easier to take the bolt out with my cheek riser left installed, shorter smoother bolt travel. Lighter rifle, scope mounts are closer, my ammo fits in my pocket better, smaller containers to store ammo. My rifle center of balance is closer for a tighter freehand hold. Less barrel length used up by cartridge length.

Not to mention the 6.5 Creedmoor is a short action

[openfire]

I would vote 7mm mag if you like a big boom or a 7mm-08 if you don't.

[Pathfinder76]

I laugh when people recommend cartridges they have never shot let alone killed anything with. 99% of the population, when witnessing game shot, would never reliably guess the cartridge used. Yet we champion specific cartridges as if they are magical.

[Nyksta]

Originally Posted by chuck

I laugh when people recommend cartridges they have never shot let alone killed anything with. 99% of the population, when witnessing game shot, would never reliably guess the cartridge used. Yet we champion specific cartridges as if they are magical.

who are you referring to? Some cartridges do work better than others in certain conditions. And 99% of the population doesnt care to know.

[1899b]

Originally Posted by chuck

I laugh when people recommend cartridges they have never shot let alone killed anything with. 99% of the population, when witnessing game shot, would never reliably guess the cartridge used. Yet we champion specific cartridges as if they are magical.

They always look like they "bang flop" from a .30-06 to me. But i'm know expert or forensic ballistician....

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by chuck

I laugh when people recommend cartridges they have never shot let alone killed anything with. 99% of the population, when witnessing game shot, would never reliably guess the cartridge used. Yet we champion specific cartridges as if they are magical.

Close!

But I think you're off by 1%. Without knowing what kind of gun is in the shooters hand, it's 100% a guessing game, even at 1200yds there are enough capable cartridges that it would still be a guess.

[Coiloil37]

Originally Posted by 270person

The Nosler info I have doesn't concur. Even at max loads. Take a look at the BC's as well.



I don't see anything significant that a 308 does better with a 150 than the 270 unless it's in auto load rifles. As for 240 grain bullets I can't say as I've seen a lot of guys/girls using them and might even go so far as asking why they would.

I'm not saying it's doing anything "significantly" better. Simply that it's starting a 150 faster then the .270 and the 165 at the same speed. I took it from their website, same place I get all of noslers data.








Now take the word "significant" out because that's fairly subjective and let's just look at what it is.

Achieving better velocity with 30% less powder in a short action. Bigger selection of bullets, cheaper components, larger frontal diameter, more versatile with that wider range of components... yea I would call that better. It's definitely not worse.

And that's stacking it up against a .308 which isn't even fair. Really it should have to go head to head against a 30-06 where it looks even worse.


Ballistic coefficient is fairly irrelevant with any modern spitzer on sub 400 yard shots which is why I'm not going to start dissecting it.


About the heavy for caliber bullets. See how many guys are punching long range paper with a 150 grain bullet in their 308. I'm not saying the .308 is a perfect hunting rifle with 240's but that the ability to shoot heavy bullets is there. It's not an option for a .270

[fishinmatt]

Originally Posted by Nyksta

140gr 7mm-08 and 165 gr 308 win have the exact same velocities bc's and trajectory. 7mm-08 is less recoil and less energy.

the 270 is lighter bullets, and different powders than the 3006. It has less recoil and less energy, but it is a good popular option if 3006 was too much kick for someone

Heres my take on cartridges.

1. 7mmRemMag my opinion is the best shooter of all cartridges, but too big for me.
2. 3006 kicks harder than i enjoy in my light rifles
3. 308 win perfect recoil and i like short action
4. 270 win same recoil as 308 , a bit flatter shooting, but the skinner calibre drops its hole size ability and id rather go short action
5. 7mm-08 better recoil, nice but ill stick with the more popular 308 since i can do that recoil
6. 25-06 pretty cool, but my opinion would go to 270 win if i was to do long action.
7. 6.5 creedmore seems nice but too rare and im comfortable with more recoil so ill take higher energy of 7mm-08 or 308
8. 243 win. Super small recoil. Great for that purpose.

Get the biggest cartridge you can comfortably enjoy

I agree with a lot of that but would like to add a few things
1 ) 7mm WSM is very close ballistically to 7mm rem mag but in a short action. Since it sounds like you reload there are a ton of options; i personally have settled on a load between what a 7mm rem mag could offer and a 7-08 rem and it is about a perfect combination for me for a do everything rifle.
6) Definetly see the merit of a 270 but to my knowledge you can't shoot an 85 gn projectile at 3800 + ft/sec out of a 270. I think this may be one of the flatter big game legal rounds one could load for out to 400 ish yards. That sounds pretty cool to me so im giving it a go this winter.

[Dick284]

Originally Posted by Coiloil37

I'm not saying it's doing anything "significantly" better. Simply that it's starting a 150 faster then the .270 and the 165 at the same speed. I took it from their website, same place I get all of noslers data.








Now take the word "significant" out because that's fairly subjective and let's just look at what it is.

Achieving better velocity with 30% less powder in a short action. Bigger selection of bullets, cheaper components, larger frontal diameter, more versatile with that wider range of components... yea I would call that better. It's definitely not worse.

And that's stacking it up against a .308 which isn't even fair. Really it should have to go head to head against a 30-06 where it looks even worse.


Ballistic coefficient is fairly irrelevant with any modern spitzer on sub 400 yard shots which is why I'm not going to start dissecting it.


About the heavy for caliber bullets. See how many guys are punching long range paper with a 150 grain bullet in their 308. I'm not saying the .308 is a perfect hunting rifle with 240's but that the ability to shoot heavy bullets is there. It's not an option for a .270

Do you understand the concept of sectional density?

Read up on it, and then compare similar constructed bullets of similar SD's.

This is how you compare bullets of different diameter.

Weight for weight in different diameters is not a good comparator.

Here is where the table readers, and the real world collide.

Then throw in different construction and flip the script again.

What would you say to a 100 grain .277" bullet out perforimng a 150 grain .308" bullet? Both in penetration, weight retention, and even a slight increase in energy!?!?!

[Nyksta]

Originally Posted by fishinmatt

I agree with a lot of that but would like to add a few things
1 ) 7mm WSM is very close ballistically to 7mm rem mag but in a short action. Since it sounds like you reload there are a ton of options; i personally have settled on a load between what a 7mm rem mag could offer and a 7-08 rem and it is about a perfect combination for me for a do everything rifle.
6) Definetly see the merit of a 270 but to my knowledge you can't shoot an 85 gn projectile at 3800 + ft/sec out of a 270. I think this may be one of the flatter big game legal rounds one could load for out to 400 ish yards. That sounds pretty cool to me so im giving it a go this winter.

Its true there are cartridges like 280AI and 7mmWSM that are outstanding for ballistics and power output, but I am disappointed at their unavailability for ammo in most stores. I personally wont buy a unicorn cartridge no matter how fantastic it is.

[fishinmatt]

Agreed, if i had any thoughts of shooting off the shelf ammo i'd stay mainstream as well.

[Ossie]

Originally Posted by Wisebuck

Mines a blr81. Steel receiver and straight stock. Don’t care for the lightenings aluminum receiver and pistol grips. If I found a blr 81 7mm long action in good shape I might.

I have half a dozen high powered rifles including a Rem 700 in 30 06 that is a tack driver from the bench. But when it comes to hunting the only gun that joins me is my BLR in 30 06 with a leupold VX2. From running whitetails that require a fast second shot (like this years whitetail buck) to a mulie that I shot a couple of years back at 320 yds....the BLR never lets me down. Its hard for me to justify bringing out the tack driver...

[Coiloil37]

Originally Posted by Dick284

Do you understand the concept of sectional density?



Read up on it, and then compare similar constructed bullets of similar SD's.



This is how you compare bullets of different diameter.



Weight for weight in different diameters is not a good comparator.



Here is where the table readers, and the real world collide.



Then throw in different construction and flip the script again.



What would you say to a 100 grain .277" bullet out perforimng a 150 grain .308" bullet? Both in penetration, weight retention, and even a slight increase in energy!?!?!

All potentially valid observations depending on your end game. However, the initial response was to the claim that the .270 matched or exceeded the velocity of the .308 with 150's. I provided my interpretation of the available data. Nothing was brought up about the difference in potential penetration.


Now I may have opened the door to your questions/statements when I tried to quantify "better".


Yes I understand sectional density.

I also believe from shooting animals that the original sectional density is out the window once the bullet starts to expand. For me it comes down to bullet selection/construction for the intended shots on the intended game. In laymans terms, there are bullets I choose for penetration or tough shots and bullets I choose for maximum damage irrespective of penetration... and everything in between. It's a bell curve more so then one or the other.

I'm not sure if I'm reading the next question/statement correctly but it appears your suggesting there would be a quantifiable difference in real life between a 150 grain .277 and a 150 or 165 grain .308 bullet of the same construction that only an inexperienced, arm chair theorist would suggest they were comparable. IMO from having shot animals with both, they're in the same class. A shot made with either one will likely provide the same result as one made with the other. That's why I brought up and simply compared velocity between the two.

I'm well aware of the ability to shoot a 100 grain Barnes from a .270 and say a 150 grain Berger from a .308. IMO there is very little point in comparing the two's performance against each other on penetration and weight retention. Each style of bullet would be chosen for different reasons.
I'm not saying it couldn't happen but a .270 win with a 100 grain bullet isn't likely going to have any increase in kinetic energy on a 150 from a .308 at any range when they're both loaded to their potential. I'm not interested in running the math to compare them because I don't put a lot of interest in ke as I've already explained in this thread. It's a useless means of predicting a bullets ability to kill animals.

[Jucebox]

Ive a Tikka T3 SS in a .270win. It is my "Old Deer Gun" I load my own Horandy 140gr SST's It hits like a truck, full of bricks, travelling @ mach chicken. Never an issue, and its seen a lot of bush. Easy to shoot. Always goes where you point it. And its a great size of round, in my opinion, Big enough for anything you can hunt in this country, small enough not to make a go awful mess of a whitetail upon impact.

[wildbill]

Originally Posted by Wisebuck

I’ve hunted with lever actions all my life. .308 blr and .30-30 marlin.
Want to purchase a Tikka 3x but not sure which caliber. I reload so availability of ammo in stores is not gonna be an issue. I hunt moose, deer and thinking of getting into elk. Bears don’t interest me nor sheep or goats. Want a 400 yd caliber. Suggestions?

Asking what calibre is best for a bolt gun is like asking what fly is the best for fly fishing, there are so many variables it is almost impossible to answer (big game, varmint, pre rolled, hand rolled, bench, long range ect.) this list goes on forever and , to be perfectly honest I like them all to a certain degree even though I've only shot a fraction of the calibers available.

[360hunt]

You said it all......you would like to hunt moose and elk. In my case where I hunt these species also are large grizzly population.
I would skip past any 300 mags and go to 338 win mag. It has to same trajectory as 30-06 but unbelievable knock down power at distance.
Then by a 2nd tikka in 6.5x55 for deer and other critters

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by 360hunt

You said it all......you would like to hunt moose and elk. In my case where I hunt these species also are large grizzly population.
I would skip past any 300 mags and go to 338 win mag. It has to same trajectory as 30-06 but unbelievable knock down power at distance.
Then by a 2nd tikka in 6.5x55 for deer and other critters

I think we are stretching it a bit here.

[marxman]

Originally Posted by Coiloil37

As per Nosler a .308 can start a 150 a little over a 100 fps faster then a .270 can start a 150. The .308 can start a 165 the same speed the .270 starts it's 150.

I didn't bother to run them through the calculator to check down range velocity but my money says they're to close to care. Lets not forget the .308 can also shoot 180-240 grain bullets as well.

Just keeping the facts straight, I use a .270 and don't even own a .308 anymore.

Somebody always says this. Without s.d. its misleading. Why would anyone ever shoot a higher s.d. bullet when a lower s.d. bullet would be faster. You didnt tell us the speed of the 308 x180gr. Compared to the similar 270x140

[Nyksta]

Originally Posted by marxman

Somebody always says this. Without s.d. its misleading. Why would anyone ever shoot a higher s.d. bullet when a lower s.d. bullet would be faster. You didnt tell us the speed of the 308 x180gr. Compared to the similar 270x140

270 140 grain (sd=261) is more similar to 308 168 gr. (Sd=253)

Compare 270 cal 150 (sd=279) to 308 180 (sd=271) and that would be closer.

As caliber drops, you need a slightly higher sectional density to compensate for less overall mass.

I didnt look up the velocities or bc's of said bullets this time, but i already know that impact energies are extremely close at all ranges from muzzle to 500 meters and the drift is about 1% better for 270 So it pretty much comes down to whatever cartridge turns you on more