Non trophy Sheep

[bighorn1]

To all you sheep fanatics out there, I have been looking to wet my feet in the sheep world for years so to speak.

I gave general rams a go and realized that I needed to invest a lot more time and boot leather into this before anything realistic is ever going to transpire period.

I would however love to go on a non trophy sheep hunt just to wet my whistle and see if sheep is something that I may like to eat. I have been told that a good ewe rivals a good elk. Grits wise i could live on Elk so if sheep's better that's a wow factor for me.

In any case I have been building priority points and have lots in the non trophy sheep world so I guess my questions is , if you were looking to get into the sheep world and give it a true effort where would you head to ?

I live in decent sheep country but would travel many hours to have a better chance, any info or pointers would be greatly appreciated.

I am not looking for anyone's secret stash I am just looking to have a realistic chance at bagging a sheep and am willing to put the time, effort and boot leather into this. I am asking well in advance as I would like to get scouting and see where things may point me come fall.

Please let me know if you have any insight or pointers as to where i should head.

Thanks gents .

[mad mountain mike]

Bighorn this is no secret or anybodies sweet spot, if you want to try ewe sheep meat then draw your tag in zone 422 quad up the Hummingbird shoot your ewe and be back in Rocky for a late supper.

[Full Curl Earl]

Can you still quad in the Bighorn Back country around Hummingbird? I was thinking they had it closed down during the hunting season now.

[woods_walker]

Ya you can loop onion lake through hummingbird or the Canary. Just can't get into the headwaters or quad all the way down to the ram. That gets you into a lot of ewe habitat. Check the srd sites for bighorn back country maps.

[walking buffalo]

Just what are you looking for?

The easiest hunt possible?

Or a hunt that will give you more insight and experience ?


Almost every area with ewe tags offers easy and harder hunts. The difference is usually just based on how far from the road you are willing or want to go. It is up to you to decide if you want to have the easiest hunt possible or do you want to go past the easy sheep and have a hunt that offers the flavours of both the meat and sheep hunting.


As you are willing to travel, burn leather and do your research, I'll suggest that you choose an area where you want to hunt sheep in the future, then seek advice, research and scout. Put in the effort and you will have a great chance to fill the ewe tag while learning the area for future hunts. You might even fill your ram tag at the same time.



Elk meat is great, but it is simply not the same as what you will experience with flavour from a Rocky Mountain ewe. IMO, ewe (or lamb ) is the best tasting wild big game meat available in Alberta.

[crazyfish]

Agree with WB ! Every time I've hunted Rams I've seen ewes somewhere along the way ! The more you invest into an area the better prepared you will be in the future when you do see a ram because you will have a better familiarity with the terrain / escape routes etc ! Good luck and enjoy !

[Roughneck Country]

I saw an old old ewe once with long spikes and one was even broken about 4 inches up. I always thought she would have made a nice euro mount or even a complimentary mount for a ram if a guy has one. Not to mention a freezer full of sheep meat which doesn't seem to last long.

Like was mentioned before you might even come across a ram!

[bighorn1]

Thanks for all the replies guys, I wouldn't say I am looking for an easy hunt at all as I am willing to burn some leather, just more of a " sure thing " kind of deal if I am going to burn this priority

I want to taste some sheep and am willing to do whatever that takes to make it happen weather it be a ten mile hike or a 70 mile hike.

[smith88]

Would anyone be willing to share anything information about WMU 406B in regards to NT sheep? I have finally lined up some vacation time and a hunting partner (and priority) and wondering if anyone has had any positive or negative experiences in this area.

[north american hunter]

What the average prioraty for non trophy sheep?

[fish_e_o]

Originally Posted by north american hunter

What the average prioraty for non trophy sheep?

http://www.mywildalberta.com/hunting...ode29-2014.pdf

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by smith88

Would anyone be willing to share anything information about WMU 406B in regards to NT sheep? I have finally lined up some vacation time and a hunting partner (and priority) and wondering if anyone has had any positive or negative experiences in this area.

Lots of relatively easy places to get a ewe, all can be done on day hunts. Always the chance for a ram at the same time. Send me a pm if you draw the tag and I'll give you some directions.

[Diamondhitch]

Originally Posted by bighorn1

I would however love to go on a non trophy sheep hunt just to wet my whistle and see if sheep is something that I may like to eat. I have been told that a good ewe rivals a good elk.

Ewe is fine but Sheep is the one meat that I prefer males, its hard to beat a Ram, even an old one. Sheep is the "king of wild game" you will love it.

[Keeleclimber]

Originally Posted by mad mountain mike

Bighorn this is no secret or anybodies sweet spot, if you want to try ewe sheep meat then draw your tag in zone 422 quad up the Hummingbird shoot your ewe and be back in Rocky for a late supper.

I wouldn't suggest shooting a ewe in this zone. I spend a lot of time in there and the cougars, eagles, coyotes, wolves, wolverines and bears are taking their toll on the ewe population, so much so that I don't feel that this area could sustain a ewe harvest. The winter range grass is belly high but void of sheep in most wind swept slopes. The sheep population in this area needs some serious help via predator management and habitat enhancement. Carrying capacity is not an issue in WMU 422 therefore I would suggest looking for an area (WMU 400 for example) with high densities and shoot an older ewe who is beyond reproducing age.

Good Luck,

[Dr Death]

There is no ewe season in wmu 400.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by Dr Death

There is no ewe season in wmu 400.

But there should be. Jorgenson wants a ewe harvest in 400 due to density dependance concerns, Greg Hale disagrees. It is interesting that Jorgenson believe there is a density issue in SMA 1 effecting horn size and recruitment but not elsewhere in the province.... Maybe it is the surplus of mature rams in 400 that is causing the problem (horn growth reductions and age concerns are greater in 400 than in any other SMA)?

[Diamondhitch]

According to our Bighorn sheep management plan. A long boring read but very informative, we are well below sustainable numbers.

http://esrd.alberta.ca/fish-wildlife...ep-Jul1993.pdf

This indicates to me that Ewes should not be harvested until numbers are increased, however we still have plenty of ewe tags available. This is part of our provinces strategy to "increase" hunter opportunities by adding the ewe season. Im not really sure how killing females "increases" opportunity??? Back before the human population influx when Wilmore ewe tags were grossly undersubscribed, the population was below sustainable levels, now that there are more applying for this draw than available tags it is not a good thing.

Decisions like this are part of the reason our F&W is considered one of the most reactionary regulators. They need to become more pro-active and intuitive if we are to truly improve our opportunities.

Having said that, if hunters who drew tags self regulated by only taking ewes >9yrs old they would have no affect on the population and the ewe harvest would truly be an increase in hunting opportunity.

[smith88]

That document is 22 years old. A whole lot can and probably has changed since that document was wrote and published.

I agree that SRD and F&W need to be more proactive, just look at the Suffield elk problem,

[tracky]

Originally Posted by Dr Death

There is no ewe season in wmu 400.

Correct

[Diamondhitch]

Originally Posted by smith88

That document is 22 years old. A whole lot can and probably has changed since that document was wrote and published.

I agree that SRD and F&W need to be more proactive, just look at the Suffield elk problem,

I agree, a lot has changed, I have seen the sheep numbers slowly decline the entire time. I see far less sheep and far more hunters now than ever.

[mad mountain mike]

Originally Posted by Diamondhitch

I agree, a lot has changed, I have seen the sheep numbers slowly decline the entire time. I see far less sheep and far more hunters now than ever.

Not sure where you hunt big horns but I've experienced the exact opposite in recent years.

[fish_e_o]

Originally Posted by Diamondhitch

I agree, a lot has changed, I have seen the sheep numbers slowly decline the entire time. I see far less sheep and far more hunters now than ever.

hunter or habitat issue?

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by mad mountain mike

Not sure where you hunt big horns but I've experienced the exact opposite in recent years.

What I've seen from 414 north to 422 has been a steady decline of sheep #'s in the last 10 years. Those are the areas I am most famaliar with so will not speak for others

[mad mountain mike]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

What I've seen from 414 north to 422 has been a steady decline of sheep #'s in the last 10 years. Those are the areas I am most famaliar with so will not speak for others

I should clarify, I can't speak to sheep numbers just that I see more sheep than hunters.

[Diamondhitch]

Originally Posted by fish_e_o

hunter or habitat issue?

Habitat in the Wilmore has remained constant since it is not subject to development. When I started hunting there only 7-15 non-trophy sheep tags were sold, leaving the majority unclaimed, of those who drew I talked to many who carried the tag as I did with the intent that if I saw a ewe on the last day or on the way out it would be shot but cutting a ram hunt short because of a dead ewe was not an option, thus few of the drawn tags were used back then so ewes effectively had no significant human predation. Now all tags are sold and the hunters I am seeing are targeting ewes specifically more and more.

I don't believe the numbers of ewes being harvested are realistic to what our goals should be - maximum sustainable numbers of sheep. The one and only change I have really seen there is the number of females being harvested.

I wont speak for the rest of the province since I have not hunted the majority of it.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by Diamondhitch

According to our Bighorn sheep management plan. A long boring read but very informative, we are well below sustainable numbers.

http://esrd.alberta.ca/fish-wildlife...ep-Jul1993.pdf

This indicates to me that Ewes should not be harvested until numbers are increased, however we still have plenty of ewe tags available. This is part of our provinces strategy to "increase" hunter opportunities by adding the ewe season. Im not really sure how killing females "increases" opportunity??? Back before the human population influx when Wilmore ewe tags were grossly undersubscribed, the population was below sustainable levels, now that there are more applying for this draw than available tags it is not a good thing.

Decisions like this are part of the reason our F&W is considered one of the most reactionary regulators. They need to become more pro-active and intuitive if we are to truly improve our opportunities.

Having said that, if hunters who drew tags self regulated by only taking ewes >9yrs old they would have no affect on the population and the ewe harvest would truly be an increase in hunting opportunity.

You post sounds like it is composed from a pre-existing bias.

The sheep plan is a fantastic management document and not at all boring when read with insight to what our past biologists are saying, though unfortunately the goals and objectives/strategies of the plan have been almost completely neglected mostly due to a lack of funding.

Ewe harvest strategies are well supported by research and real life examples. We use to follow the plan's ewe harvest strategy and killed 10 times the number of ewes that we do now, and we killed many more rams at the same time. Keeping the herd below carrying capacity and composed of younger ewes has proven to produce more vigorous sheep with higher reproductive rates and larger body size, thus killing ewes does produce more sheep than not killing ewes. Look for the harvest levels back from the 80's...

We are no longer following the ewe harvest strategy that was so successful. Why?
Well I asked, and was told that since success rates were low in some areas due to low hunter effort it was decided to simply not issue those licences anymore. Hunting opportunity and a management strategy was dropped because hunters were not filling the tags....


How did you conclude that sheep are below carrying capacity?
Our sheep meta-population has remained stagnant for nearly thirty years, it is no longer increasing is size. This is evidence of a herd at carrying capacity. If the sheep population was below carrying capacity we should be seeing a rate of increase with a doubling time of four to five years.... this is just not happening.... evidence that suggests that the herd is NOT below carrying capacity....


All other wild sheep jurisdictions recognize and manage the need to keep sheep populations below carrying capacity, be it through hunting or translocations. We currently have very few areas of historical sheep habitat that would benefit from translocations without first doing habitat restoration. Getting any habitat restoration completed is just not happening due to many difficult factors mainly controlled by financial concerns, so we must keep up with herd dynamic/population management through hunting if we are going to keep the sheep healthy.


I find it funny how almost everyone has no problem understanding the importance of keeping livestock production at peak return through maintaining stock rates well within food resource availability and to avoid lower reproduction rates due to older average age of the females.... If you want lots big fast growing calves, keep the herd young and vigorous, with more food than they can eat.
The same applies to sheep.

[fish_e_o]

Originally Posted by Diamondhitch

I don't believe the numbers of ewes being harvested are realistic to what our goals should be - maximum sustainable numbers of sheep. The one and only change I have really seen there is the number of females being harvested.

I wont speak for the rest of the province since I have not hunted the majority of it.

there were ewe 60 tags issued in 440 442 and 444 last year. with the exception of 442 about half of those wmus are inside wilmore and half outside.

so maybe 45 (being generous) get harvested inside of wilmore.

plus wilmore is actually bad for not maintaining habitat. as with most parks they try very very hard to not have any natural burns come through that creates the habitat that sheep need to escape predators.

[Diamondhitch]

Originally Posted by fish_e_o

there were ewe 60 tags issued in 440 442 and 444 last year. with the exception of 442 about half of those wmus are inside wilmore and half outside.

so maybe 45 (being generous) get harvested inside of wilmore.

plus wilmore is actually bad for not maintaining habitat. as with most parks they try very very hard to not have any natural burns come through that creates the habitat that sheep need to escape predators.

45 is a lot of ewes to be shooting, these aren't prolific and densely populated whitetails we are talking about.

When you talk to the old timers you get a picture of what could be. Apparently the Indians used to routinely burn the wildhay flats and there were tons of Muleys in there. There are still mulies there but nowhere near as many as back in those days, bog birch has choked out most of the grass. Fire is GOOD, just not when it comes to $$$ unfortunately.

[fish_e_o]

Originally Posted by Diamondhitch

45 is a lot of ewes to be shooting, these aren't prolific and densely populated whitetails we are talking about.

When you talk to the old timers you get a picture of what could be. Apparently the Indians used to routinely burn the wildhay flats and there were tons of Muleys in there. There are still mulies there but nowhere near as many as back in those days, bog birch has choked out most of the grass. Fire is GOOD, just not when it comes to $$$ unfortunately.

4,568 km² is the size of willmore so that's one ewe for every 100 square km's (or one ewe in 24,710.5381 acres) . i'm not a biologist i don't know what would be a good harvest rate i'm just saying it sounds rather small based on the size


we'd all like to see more burns but there's no money unfortunately.

[Diamondhitch]

Originally Posted by fish_e_o

4,568 km² is the size of willmore so that's one ewe for every 100 square km's (or one ewe in 24,710.5381 acres) . i'm not a biologist i don't know what would be a good harvest rate i'm just saying it sounds rather small based on the size


we'd all like to see more burns but there's no money unfortunately.

The thing to remember about Wilmore is that the sheep are there in low density at the best of times but as you get deeper in towards the SW corner the sparser they get. The mountains get extremely rugged and it becomes more goat country than sheep. Plus add the fact that 60% of it is valleys and 30% is barren rock that are seldom used by sheep and the square km drops quite quickly.