Long range grouping?

[huntin]

So at 600yards I'm shooting about a 9" group as of right now I have plans on making 600 yards shots on big game but. What is a good group at this range. ?

[Lefty-Canuck]

That's about 1.5 MOA ( equivalent to shooting 1.5 inches at 100).... 6 inches or less would be a better group.

Based on those results....That would be your max range for shots on deer sized animals IMHO.

Are these 3 or 5 shot groups?

LCD

[huntin]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

That's about 1.5 MOA ( equivalent to shooting 1.5 inches at 100).... 6 inches or less would be a better group.

Based on those results....That would be your max range for shots on deer sized animals IMHO.

Are these 3 or 5 shot groups?

LCD

These are 3 shot groups. Out of my new rifle. Still practicing only been shooting for about 4 days now at that range. The groups are getting better. The rifle will shoot better than the shooter that's for sure.

[whiskeywillow]

Keep tabs on your round-count as your practicing and doing your shooting.. in my-own rifles, which I also shoot long-range, I see fouling turn 1/2" groups into 3/4" then to 1" and so-on, right around 50 shots* ...then obviously progressively wider from there

My 264 (which I believe is the same calibre you shoot) will "perfectly" give a guy 1/2" at 100 minimally fouled.. but slowly open as fouling builds* The same groups at 725 in-fact measure right in the 4-5" range.. it'll shoot like that right to 40/50 rounds, or better if everything is perfect.

...yours may or may not foul the same, but generally speaking I think fouling in that 40/50 rounds is pretty common occurence.

fwiw, after I clean carbon AND copper outta mine, it takes a dozen shots to re-foul to the point my barrel will give me back my .5 group* Almost every-time, #13, 14 & 15 measure .5 or less. Your barrel may or may-not do the same (being bran-new and possibly "match" or what-have-you) But it's worth keeping track of! If you knew you were zeroed BEFORE a cleaning, be absolutely sure NOT to panic and start cranking your scope this-way or that in the case you see a group or even 'flyers' on your paper when you go shoot again! ...would bet my bottom dollar it'll tighten up after a handful down the pipe

Goodluck! ..9" can be tightened-up considerably at 600*

[huntin]

Originally Posted by whiskeywillow

Keep tabs on your round-count as your practicing and doing your shooting.. in my-own rifles, which I also shoot long-range, I see fouling turn 1/2" groups into 3/4" then to 1" and so-on, right around 50 shots* ...then obviously progressively wider from there

My 264 (which I believe is the same calibre you shoot) will "perfectly" give a guy 1/2" at 100 minimally fouled.. but slowly open as fouling builds* The same groups at 725 in-fact measure right in the 4-5" range.. it'll shoot like that right to 40/50 rounds, or better if everything is perfect.

...yours may or may not foul the same, but generally speaking I think fouling in that 40/50 rounds is pretty common occurence.

fwiw, after I clean carbon AND copper outta mine, it takes a dozen shots to re-foul to the point my barrel will give me back my .5 group* Almost every-time, #13, 14 & 15 measure .5 or less. Your barrel may or may-not do the same (being bran-new and possibly "match" or what-have-you) But it's worth keeping track of! If you knew you were zeroed BEFORE a cleaning, be absolutely sure NOT to panic and start cranking your scope this-way or that in the case you see a group or even 'flyers' on your paper when you go shoot again! ...would bet my bottom dollar it'll tighten up after a handful down the pipe

Goodluck! ..9" can be tightened-up considerably at 600*

Yes your correct I'm shooting a 264wm I'm going to clean it in the morning. And start over thanks.

[6.5x47 lapua]

the size of the groups at 600 is irrelevant.can you hit a 8" pie plate with a COLD BORE shot every hour on the hour for a whole day.thats what it takes to kill game at that distance ethically.it isnt hard to hammer three shots on steel when you have a known condition.having to steer through mirage and diffrent conditions on the first shot is the only way you can shoot at that distance ethically.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by 6.5x47 lapua

the size of the groups at 600 is irrelevant.can you hit a 8" pie plate with a COLD BORE shot every hour on the hour for a whole day.thats what it takes to kill game at that distance ethically.it isnt hard to hammer three shots on steel when you have a known condition.having to steer through mirage and diffrent conditions on the first shot is the only way you can shoot at that distance ethically.

Very true.

LC

[huntin]

Originally Posted by 6.5x47 lapua

the size of the groups at 600 is irrelevant.can you hit a 8" pie plate with a COLD BORE shot every hour on the hour for a whole day.thats what it takes to kill game at that distance ethically.it isnt hard to hammer three shots on steel when you have a known condition.having to steer through mirage and diffrent conditions on the first shot is the only way you can shoot at that distance ethically.

I will try this thanks

[ctd]

I agree first round hit is more important then focusing on how tight your group is.
To many factors when shooting a group that can make you not do well. Then get frustrated. When every shot would have been a kill shot anyways.

The benifits of a tight group are more confidence building then anything else.

[elkhunter11]

the size of the groups at 600 is irrelevant.can you hit a 8" pie plate with a COLD BORE shot every hour on the hour for a whole day.thats what it takes to kill game at that distance ethically.it isnt hard to hammer three shots on steel when you have a known condition.having to steer through mirage and diffrent conditions on the first shot is the only way you can shoot at that distance ethically.

Exactly! I can't help but laugh when I see someone show up at the range with their "precision " rifle, then they spend four or five shots walking the point of impact towards a clay target at 500 meters, before finally breaking it. Then all that you hear from them afterward is how they broke a clay target at 500 meters. They usually forget all about the four or five shots they missed first.

[DaleJ]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Exactly! I can't help but laugh when I see someone show up at the range with their "precision " rifle, then they spend four or five shots walking the point of impact towards a clay target at 500 meters, before finally breaking it. Then all that you hear from them afterward is how they broke a clay target at 500 meters. They usually forget all about the four or five shots they missed first.

That might be referred to as "sighting in", unless they require the same procedure to hit the second clay. Sounds like long range gopher shooting.

[depopulator]

Originally Posted by 6.5x47 lapua

the size of the groups at 600 is irrelevant.can you hit a 8" pie plate with a COLD BORE shot every hour on the hour for a whole day.thats what it takes to kill game at that distance ethically.it isnt hard to hammer three shots on steel when you have a known condition.having to steer through mirage and diffrent conditions on the first shot is the only way you can shoot at that distance ethically.

Excellent advice!

[elkhunter11]

That might be referred to as "sighting in", unless they require the same procedure to hit the second clay. Sounds like long range gopher shooting.

They usually quit after hitting one clay, and if they don't, they often require more than one shot to hit consecutive clays. The misses are usually caused by a total inability to read wind conditions. Even if they have a wind meter, which some do, they overlook the fact that wind isn't always constant over the entire 500 meters. As well, some of them put blind faith in their trajectory calculations, and don't want to accept that the actual trajectory, might not match their calculations. One clown actually sighted his rifle in at 25 yards, and then went hunting, without bothering to shoot his rifle at longer ranges to verify the actual trajectory. He was fully confident that with a 25 yard sight in, his calculations would allow him to shoot game animals at 800 yards.

[sns2]

I may get flamed, but at least I am consistent in my opinions. Shooting at big game animals, under field conditions at 600 yds, is wrong. It's called hunting folks. Can't we put on a stalk and get closer?

I know there are people who will get their panties in a knot and tell / lecture me about their spanky new long range rigs, just like the Best of the West boys use. Unless you can definitively tell me how many animals those guys gutshoot, I don't want to hear it.

Game animals deserve the right to be harvested ethically.

[Dick284]

Luke 23:34 comes to mind at times like these.

Here is my somewhat biased opinion on the matter.

The more I play, or subsequently have played at shooting at longer ranges, the less of a desire I've got to hunt at those longer ranges.

Cold bore, first shot repeatability at a varying distances is what is required to play this long range game.

Try this over differing terrain, and over different days, with different and constantly changing conditions.

When you can connect repeatedly under this scenario you'll be ready.

You'll also find out what your maximum hunting range is, which will likely be a couple hundred yards closer than your thinking, which is still pretty danged far to begin with!

[sns2]

exactly!!!

[tchardy1972]

What do the groups look like at that range? If they stack mostly vertical, you need to work on your load.

[huntin]

Originally Posted by tchardy1972

What do the groups look like at that range? If they stack mostly vertical, you need to work on your load.

Height is within an inch it's my horizontal thats 9"

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by 6.5x47 lapua

the size of the groups at 600 is irrelevant.can you hit a 8" pie plate with a COLD BORE shot every hour on the hour for a whole day.thats what it takes to kill game at that distance ethically.it isnt hard to hammer three shots on steel when you have a known condition.having to steer through mirage and diffrent conditions on the first shot is the only way you can shoot at that distance ethically.

Excellent advice. Be sure to shoot over dips, slight rises and all types of varying terrain and also uphill and down hill and all types of possible hunting conditions as well as its amazing what shooting over terrain can do to a bullet. A bit of an updraft off a small hill or anything like that will make that perfect shot turn into a way off miss!

[tchardy1972]

Originally Posted by huntin

Height is within an inch it's my horizontal thats 9"

Then practice, practice, practice.

[huntin]

Originally Posted by tchardy1972

Then practice, practice, practice.

That's the plan

[Jordan Smith]

Your groups will shrink as you learn to read the wind, and see what the wind is doing and how it's flowing and changing over the course of fire. One inch of vertical and 9" of windage means that the wind is getting the best of you.

[huntin]

So I've done a couple things. Cleaned the rifle for one even though it only had 40 rounds through it. Ditched the led sled. Now shooting prone and off a bag in the front. And what ever I can get on the back to make it solid. And not concentrating on groups only hits. Shooting the gong and things like milk jugs at distances from 4-600 yards its working great.
Thanks for all the help guys.

[solocam3]

Save that for the target range. You don't need to kill an animal at 600 or more yards! They will actually walk by you at 80?

[bighorn1]

confidence is the key, stick to one firearm and load and learn how to shoot it period. you dont need the long range optics and all the latest jazz, i have a 270 that i have been shooting for 20+ years and i dare anything to walk out in front of me at 500+ yards and not be on the ground in a few seconds. this is a stock rifle out of the box with a little trigger work and has a basic 3X9X40on top and it will drive tacks way out there. its alll about learning the rifle and knowing where it shoots. loads, optics, and all the fancy stuff there is in this day and age dont mean shat, just learn the gun and it will be worth way more to you than all the goodies.

[huntin]

Originally Posted by solocam3

Save that for the target range. You don't need to kill an animal at 600 or more yards! They will actually walk by you at 80?

thanks tips. but if I feel the need to kill at long range that's up to me. and when you can contribute to a thread please feel free to. other than that keep your garbage to yourself

[gopher]

Originally Posted by bighorn1

confidence is the key, stick to one firearm and load and learn how to shoot it period. you dont need the long range optics and all the latest jazz, i have a 270 that i have been shooting for 20+ years and i dare anything to walk out in front of me at 500+ yards and not be on the ground in a few seconds. this is a stock rifle out of the box with a little trigger work and has a basic 3X9X40on top and it will drive tacks way out there. its alll about learning the rifle and knowing where it shoots. loads, optics, and all the fancy stuff there is in this day and age dont mean shat, just learn the gun and it will be worth way more to you than all the goodies.

48 inch rule.

[6.5swedeforelk]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

That's about 1.5 MOA ( equivalent to shooting 1.5 inches at 100).... 6 inches or less would be a better group.

Based on those results....That would be your max range for shots on deer sized animals IMHO.

Are these 3 or 5 shot groups?

LCD

Only if you've dragged your solid, stable shooting bench along hunting, beanie bags, chose a no-wind day, was not out of breath, excited. The deer would have to pose for you with no interferring twigs etc etc.

Heck, I even saw a post on here " Neck shots gone wrong"
You are all on this kick that 1.5 moa is nowhere good enough and then in hunting situations you can't hit a 4 inch dead-kill target at under 100yds! I know, I know, elk moving, other variables. That's called hunting.

[6.5swedeforelk]

Originally Posted by solocam3

Save that for the target range. You don't need to kill an animal at 600 or more yards! They will actually walk by you at 80?

Finally, a hunter checks in!
Thank you, Solo

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by 6.5swedeforelk

Only if you've dragged your solid, stable shooting bench along hunting, beanie bags, chose a no-wind day, was not out of breath, excited. The deer would have to pose for you with no interferring twigs etc etc.

Heck, I even saw a post on here " Neck shots gone wrong"
You are all on this kick that 1.5 moa is nowhere good enough and then in hunting situations you can't hit a 4 inch dead-kill target at under 100yds! I know, I know, elk moving, other variables. That's called hunting.

LOL clearly you read what you wanted and not what I typed. Yes hunting is a different thing altogether but if you can't keep under a 9 inch target at 600 off the bench the how can you say you are good out past 600 on game? How big us a deers perfect broadside kill zone?

I never said 1.5 MOA wasn't good enough I just said 1 MOA is better....

For the record I have never shot @ a game animal over 380 yards....nor do I intend to anytime soon.

My point in sharing a story about a failed neck shot at 100 was just that....the point that gimme shots can and will fail occasionally. No need to be fancy with neck shots.... shoot the chest and make the highest percentage shot possible.

LC