Do you own any sub 1/2 moa rifles and what kind

[Rocky7]

I can imagine how you'd be thanking somebody upstairs for not having said something or having been shooting alongside young Annie Oakley. I know I would.

[flint guy]

As I was sweet on this girl I talked to her after the fact. Turns out she was on the us Olympic prospect shooting team. Annie oakly was some fine shooter. Apparently she could cut a playing card and put several holes in it before it hit the ground from 100 ft away!

[Rocky7]

Wow. I'd pay money to see that.

And I'd bring my daughters, too. For a little motivation.

[flint guy]

Now Im not saying Im a crack shot here, and that pennsylvania is hardly a sub 1/2moa rifle, but it has drove alot of tacks at 15yards, and cut a decent poker hand or two of playing cards as well. Its outshot a few scoped hunting rifles also, but that doesnt happen very often.

anyways, pics as promised. a few medals and 5 playing card halves

[catnthehat]

I've split a few cards and bullets in my time as well, and have a friend who split seven bullets in a row on an axe at 15 yards.

Cat

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

I personally have seen some of the members here, ( and others)
shoot better than 2MOA at 100 yards offhand with hunting rifles, and do it in a match!

As far as being consistant goes, I doubt tha any shooter will do that, depending on what you call consistant.
For 10 ,5 round groups? That would be something to se, but I'm sure it is possible....
Cat

No doubt people can do it...I just don't personally know any . My friends and I are mostly hacks when it comes to shooting

LC

[flint guy]

The ol man and I used to have a double bit and we would stick it in a stump, hang a clay bird on each side and try to break em both. Its great fun.
Used to do "candle shoots" too. Have to cut the wick or get close enough to put out the flame without touching the candle wax. Done at night with open sights, I went 20 some rounds without a miss once between me and another really fine gentleman. He beat me in the end. Strings on a diagonal are a tough one also. Never have seen a match lit, but I have sure tried, I hear rumors it can be done.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

No doubt people can do it...I just don't personally know any . My friends and I are mostly hacks when it comes to shooting

LC

There have been days when I thought I was the King of hacks!!
Cat

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by flint guy

The ol man and I used to have a double bit and we would stick it in a stump, hang a clay bird on each side and try to break em both. Its great fun.

Tim Losey had a blade fixed up HORIZONTAL with a rolling paper roll - now THAT is tough!
Cat

[flint guy]

just remembered teh beer can trick too. Botom one full of water (never waste good beer) empty stacked on top. Shoot the bottom one it sends the upper flying, try to get it before it touches the ground. Its best done with a shotgun slug and then birdshot... but a rifle works too, I have only got one in my life with a bolt gun.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by flint guy

just remembered teh beer can trick too. Botom one full of water (never waste good beer) empty stacked on top. Shoot the bottom one it sends the upper flying, try to get it before it touches the ground. Its best done with a shotgun slug and then birdshot... but a rifle works too, I have only got one in my life with a bolt gun.

If it was legal to shoot a handgun in a field that would be fun to try....

LC

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by flint guy

just remembered teh beer can trick too. Botom one full of water (never waste good beer) empty stacked on top. Shoot the bottom one it sends the upper flying, try to get it before it touches the ground. Its best done with a shotgun slug and then birdshot... but a rifle works too, I have only got one in my life with a bolt gun.

We do that in our rifle rodeo - one guy with his riflle, the other uses a supplied 410.

The top Can must come off the bottom one and be hit in the air.
OOPS!
Drifting again, hijack alert!!
Cat

[flint guy]

now horizontal, thats a tough one. This tim guy must be a gentlemen and scholar, a fine judge of whiskey and women. You know there arent alot of us left.

Yeah handgunning em would be a blast lefty, with that .410 peace maker they make now.

The beer can was often a team event like you said cat. Its tougher with a side s/s or o/u on your own, Looser goes back to camp and works on replentishing empty can supply.

Sorry about hijacking. Im done now.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by flint guy

now horizontal, thats a tough one. This tim guy must be a gentlemen and scholar, a fine judge of whiskey and women. You know there arent alot of us left.

.

Mr. Losey is /was a professor of Anthropology at the U0f C, a collector of Wells Fargo, and Sharps stuff, and a heckuva shot with either cartridge or muzzle loading rifles.

His ex jenny is a great saddle maker as well as other things .
You have likley seen them at places like the great western, natioanal Championships, Heffley Creek, Tomahawk ( the rendezvous was on his farm) or at gun shows, in the past.
Cat

[markg]

I have often wondered if those shooting legends of the old west were even possible with the technology they had. Seems from you guys comments they were in fact real. I do question the real long range shots as they didn't even have scopes back then

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by markg

I have often wondered if those shooting legends of the old west were even possible with the technology they had. Seems from you guys comments they were in fact real. I do question the real long range shots as they didn't even have scopes back then

Some of the old time shooters actually were very accomplished shooters, people like the great Harry Pope, and Rowland, were exceptional, for sure.
Billy Dixon's shot with his Sharps at Adobe Walls however, was more of a fluke ( by his own admission), as he was aiming at a GROUP of 5 Indians when he unhorsed the one with that super long shot with his Sharps.
he had shot on that hill quite often however, so did know the range.
I know of one long range match shooter about 70 years ago that would practice his long range shooting on a 48" saw blade at 900 yards - they used the .577 Snider in those days!
Cat

[lclund1946]

Originally Posted by gopher

First off nice groups!
I have a pile of nice groups I have shot as well they don’t mean too much. Like I have said I don’t have any rifles I would bet a hundred dollar bill that I could shoot ½ MOA any time I like. Not that I am calling you a lair but 1 or two groups don’t impress me much

Thanks for not calling me a liar and your honesty about not being able to shoot consistent 1/2 MOA groups with your rifles. There are a lot of rifles that are capable of shooting 1/2 MOA groups but not that many people capable of getting that kind of performance from them.

The original intent of this thread was: "Do you own any sub 1/2 moa rifles and what make / model / and calibre are they? What optics do you have on them as well? Feel free to post any pics of your sub 1/2 MOA rifles with target proof of there performance."

I listed a few rifles that I own and one that I have owned that were consistant sub 1/2 MOA with several loads. I posted pictures of sub 1/2 MOA targets shot, at ranges from 100 to 600 yards, with these rifles as requested. They were not posted to impress you, or anyone else for that matter. There were a few others who posted some very good sub 1/2 MOA targets shot with their sub 1/2 MOA rifles. As well there were a few who mentioned their sub 1/2 MOA rifles without targets to back them up.

One fellow attempted to derail the thread by accusing us of not being able to properly measure our groups. Another has turned it into a thread about people putting too much emphasis on sub 1/2 Moa rifles and people not being able to shoot them in field conditions. Instead it is turning into a post about the ability of some people to shoot 2 MOA groups, off hand, with guns that are barely capable of holding 1 MOA off the bench and shooting small objects at 15 yards. Hopefully others who have sub 1/2 MOA rifles wil not be deterred from posting, preferably with targets, and hopefully it does not become a Remington versus whatever thread.

My goal is not to prove anything to anyone. I am a hunter and have no desire to do competitive shooting. I only compete with myself to do the best I can and continually strive to improve my loading and shooting skills. Sub 1/2 MOA rifles are the only ones in my arsenal as I want them to perform to 600 yards on big game as well as gophers. My ability does not extend beyond that. Several of the loads that I listed, in my varmint rifles, allow me to shoot gophers in the head at 300 yards on a consistant basis. I have family and a few very good friends that have sub 1/2 MOA rifles due to my efforts. Does it p**s me off when they shoot better than I do on occasion?

As for your comment, Not that I am calling you a lair but 1 or two groups don’t impress me much, hopefully your shooting ability is better than your ability to count. I actually posted about 38, sub 1/2 MOA groups, from 10 different rifles in 8 different calibers. I suggest that you spend more time at the range, tuning your rifle and loads, rather than making posts such as this. Perhaps you might surprize yourself and have a few targets to post. I would be happy to help if you live near Edmonton. Perhaps we could get together for a gopher shoot!

[elkhunter11]

A single group does not make a sub1/2moa rifle, but several sub 1/2moa groups fired one after the other is a good start. Below are four consecutive five shot groups fired with my Tikka Tactical in .223.



Below are four consecutive five shot groups fired with my Cooper 260. One group was just over 1/2moa, but the average of all four is under 1/2moa. Subsequent load development resulted in groups that don't share the vertical stringing found here.



A three shot group fired with my final load. I would have fired five, but I only had three rounds left.



A couple of groups fired with my custom 6.5x47L.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by lclund1946

One fellow attempted to derail the thread by accusing us of not being able to properly measure our groups. Another has turned it into a thread about people putting too much emphasis on sub 1/2 Moa rifles and people not being able to shoot them in field conditions. Instead it is turning into a post about the ability of some people to shoot 2 MOA groups, off hand, with guns that are barely capable of holding 1 MOA off the bench and shooting small objects at 15 yards. Hopefully others who have sub 1/2 MOA rifles wil not be deterred from posting, preferably with targets, and hopefully it does not become a Remington versus whatever thread.

Threads tend to drift at times, but I seriously doubt that the fella who posted about some shooter's measuring skills was serious , more like making a joke.
My statement about offhand shooting , etc, was simply that.
There is no rule that says a thread has to stay on course in fact, as long as things stay friendly.
I've posted targets in the past but couldn't be bothered to do it in this particular thread.
I think you should lighten up a bit and enjoy the conversation instead of getting all defensive about stuff.
Cat

[gopher]

Originally Posted by lclund1946

Thanks for not calling me a liar and your honesty about not being able to shoot consistent 1/2 MOA groups with your rifles. There are a lot of rifles that are capable of shooting 1/2 MOA groups but not that many people capable of getting that kind of performance from them.

The original intent of this thread was: "Do you own any sub 1/2 moa rifles and what make / model / and calibre are they? What optics do you have on them as well? Feel free to post any pics of your sub 1/2 MOA rifles with target proof of there performance."

I listed a few rifles that I own and one that I have owned that were consistant sub 1/2 MOA with several loads. I posted pictures of sub 1/2 MOA targets shot, at ranges from 100 to 600 yards, with these rifles as requested. They were not posted to impress you, or anyone else for that matter. There were a few others who posted some very good sub 1/2 MOA targets shot with their sub 1/2 MOA rifles. As well there were a few who mentioned their sub 1/2 MOA rifles without targets to back them up.

One fellow attempted to derail the thread by accusing us of not being able to properly measure our groups. Another has turned it into a thread about people putting too much emphasis on sub 1/2 Moa rifles and people not being able to shoot them in field conditions. Instead it is turning into a post about the ability of some people to shoot 2 MOA groups, off hand, with guns that are barely capable of holding 1 MOA off the bench and shooting small objects at 15 yards. Hopefully others who have sub 1/2 MOA rifles wil not be deterred from posting, preferably with targets, and hopefully it does not become a Remington versus whatever thread.

My goal is not to prove anything to anyone. I am a hunter and have no desire to do competitive shooting. I only compete with myself to do the best I can and continually strive to improve my loading and shooting skills. Sub 1/2 MOA rifles are the only ones in my arsenal as I want them to perform to 600 yards on big game as well as gophers. My ability does not extend beyond that. Several of the loads that I listed, in my varmint rifles, allow me to shoot gophers in the head at 300 yards on a consistant basis. I have family and a few very good friends that have sub 1/2 MOA rifles due to my efforts. Does it p**s me off when they shoot better than I do on occasion?

As for your comment, Not that I am calling you a lair but 1 or two groups don’t impress me much, hopefully your shooting ability is better than your ability to count. I actually posted about 38, sub 1/2 MOA groups, from 10 different rifles in 8 different calibers. I suggest that you spend more time at the range, tuning your rifle and loads, rather than making posts such as this. Perhaps you might surprize yourself and have a few targets to post. I would be happy to help if you live near Edmonton. Perhaps we could get together for a gopher shoot!

Ok 38 groups make me a believer lol

Would love for you to show me a few tricks I could use a few more. If you really want to go on a gopher hunt PM me at the end of May this year and see what we can work out Possibly I could show you a thing or too.

[lclund1946]

Originally Posted by gopher

Ok 38 groups make me a believer lol

Would love for you to show me a few tricks I could use a few more. If you really want to go on a gopher hunt PM me at the end of May this year and see what we can work out Possibly I could show you a thing or too.

Sure glad you are finally a believer. Pretty much ran out of 1/2 MOA targets that I had scanned and uploaded to Photobucket. Would take quite a while to upload the rest, LOL. Hopefully you will be able to show me a thing or two. I am always looking to learn new things, especially if they improve my reloading/shooting skills. Look forward to shooting with you in May. Shooting a few gophers always lightens one up. Me anyway!

[Lefty-Canuck]

I don't have 38 targets from the rifle......but I have 3 that I have saved from 3 different days.... first and last taken from a clean barrel, 1 fouler on each target.....the middle one was taken after shooting a couple of other loads, but the target is from the main load....to check consistency.

Not trying to convince anyone of anything but just because some have not been able to or don't own a sub-moa rifle doesn't mean it isn't possible

This is from my .240WBY



so is this...



And so is this....



Consistency is what you were after....this is a consistant shooter IMHO.... This rifle by far was one of the toughest I have worked with to get to shoot as far as load development goes.

The bottom line for me is if a rifle doesn't shoot I don't own it for very long. I had a LH Sako in .270WIN that would not shoot and I traded it straight accross for a new LH Remington in .270WIN.....most thought I was crazy but take a look at my target above taken from 500yards (post #28) and tell me that ......a bit of luck was involved both in getting the rifle I did and the targets it produces.

LC

[PistonBroke]

i have a remington model 700 sps varmint...h.s precision stock..stock barrel that has been lapped and factory tuned trigger ...custom hand loads...shooting 47 grains of IMR 4350 with a 68 gr berger perched on top ....this is my 25 yrd group...have yet to go see what it does at 100 yrds...but not a bad start i would say...

[ElkhairC]

Love the Ruger Hawkeye UL in 257 Roberts with Leupold 4 x very accurate rifle.

[Rocky7]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

I don't have 38 targets from the rifle......but I have 3 that I have saved from 3 different days.... first and last taken from a clean barrel, 1 fouler on each target.....the middle one was taken after shooting a couple of other loads, but the target is from the main load....to check consistency.

This is from my .240WBY
...
so is this...
....
And so is this....

Oh, sure! You're using those fakey dimes the size of dinner plates! I've seen that trick somewhere.

The bottom line for me is if a rifle doesn't shoot I don't own it for very long.

Ditto.

I don't shoot in competitions and have asked myself why I drive so much effort into building rifles, tuning them, working up loads, etc. to shoot bugholes when a 1" grouping is plenty for normal hunting, even hunting that is quite a bit abnormal.

For me, it is a matter of confidence. When I throw up a rifle that is capable of shooting a critter in the top left part of the heart instead of somewhere in the middle of a circle, I am aiming at the top of the heart and expecting something real close to that. I have a different mindset when I'm shooting at game with a real accurate rifle. I don't need to remind myself "Aim small, miss small"; it's there at the front of my unconscious - all the time, every time.

At least, that's the story I tell myself. And I'm stickin' to it.

[260 Rem]

Shooting consistent five shot groups under 1/2" @ 100M is always a challenge... IMO it takes much better than average equipment, better than average reloading (and in rare cases, premium quality factory ammo), and a shooter who has good technique. If any one of these "components" is absent, I dare say there is some luck involved. I have seen very few "half minute" groups shot with sporter weight rifles (under 7 1/2 lbs) or with scopes under 10 power.

[Steverdb]

A one of a kind 338LM single shot short action. Under 1/2 MOA all day, any day.

[bulletman]

It's great to see these groups, and even I can get a good group once in a while, but they don't account for much. What will your ''big game'' rifle do in your hands when you've just spotted a big bull elk, or a ''once in a lifetime'' whitetail buck? Field practice, no bench! What can you do then, fellas?

[duceman]

why must there be a constant pizzing contest between critter shooting and target shooting?
it's ok not to take pleasure in shooting small groups, be they near or way out there.
if target shooting is not your cup of tea, that's fine, but why constantly insinuate that target shooters can't hit deer when offered the chance?
some of us just like to pull the trigger, alot!
for all you anti target shooters, how come we have such a low turn out for the rifle rodeo each year, where the sole purpose is to practice for hunting season and have some fun?
it would seem some people just refuse to participate in any kind of event where there may be a witness to one's shooting ability.
i'm sure i'm missing something, lee

[gitrdun]

Originally Posted by bulletman

It's great to see these groups, and even I can get a good group once in a while, but they don't account for much. What will your ''big game'' rifle do in your hands when you've just spotted a big bull elk, or a ''once in a lifetime'' whitetail buck? Field practice, no bench! What can you do then, fellas?

With all due respect bulletman, you are sadly mistaken thinking that some of us who put in bench time don't put an equal amount of time shooting off hand, sitting, prone and in any situation that may present itself afield. I happen to shoot with duceman and a few others within our circle of friends. We shoot bench, offhand, pistol and clays at every opportunity free time and good weather allows. As Lee alluded to, the rifle rodeo, the postal matches etc. are starting to look like a family affair. Most of us within that circle will accept any challenge, not because we think we are better than the next guy, but because we make our guns go bang and we love it passionately.

Edit: and as a result of this "mixed" discipline shooting, I can certainly tell you who my money would be on should a shot on an animal present itself without as much as a fence post, tree, truck mirror or what have you to lean on.