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  #61  
Old 07-23-2017, 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Dick284 View Post
Woah there Tonto.

I meant to infer that with some secondary projectiles. I still want to see some ability for the bullet to still penetrate to some degree, and even exit(I'm a 2 leaking holes guy).

I don't prescribe to the detonation theory expounded by Berger, and yes I've seen and read such accounts. I just like a middle of the road approach.
This sounds like a mission for Mr. Nosler Partition.
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  #62  
Old 07-23-2017, 08:32 PM
Don_Parsons Don_Parsons is offline
 
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Will a bigger caliber make up for a bad bullet, yes & no IMO only.

A bigger caliber "might or could" put you off your shooting abilities compared too lets say a smaller rifle.
Example might be going from a 243 or 308 too something with some kick. Ha...

One might find that middle ground of finding a rifle caliber and cartrage that best suits you.
I'm guessing that most of us work this out with our own compromises.

It probably boils down too finding a rifle and cartrage we can handle.

This is part of the 50/50 or 1 half dozen or the other thing.

The bad bullet thing makes me ask this,,, bad bullet as in the size of the caliber of it,,, or the quality of construction of the bullet.

There's a fellow in Australia that is a wealth of information when it comes too caliber too bullet that I'll post a link to so you can read about how each caliber rifle with their endless bullets and how they perform on many kinds of game all around the world.

Hopefully the Web Forum will allow you too choose what your looking for between caliber and bullet.

Your next question is,,, is there a difference between the individual of what works... I again in IMO only would like too say yes.

I can only speak for my self on what works for me. Doo Noo what others do as they find their own path in the mix.

This forum is what I used too find the caliber of rifle and bullets i choose too shot,,, the distance that they will best perform at, and the critters I might go after here in our Americas.

Click on the posted link at your choosing,,, scroll down too "Cartrage Research" and open the link too view the many calibers that were tested.

Keep your own view & mind open with a grain of salt since nothing in the critter harvests is written 100% in stone,,, many variables attached to each harvest.

PS: I ask that you first read the authors introduction as he has culled multi thousands of critters around the world,,, this might assist you in getting wizer too his view & take.

Again,,, what might not of worked for him dosen't mean it would 100% not work in our own application.

The variables are always there.

Sorry for the long post, I hope that this helps you find the answers your looking for.

http://www.ballisticstudies.com/

Don

You can click on the magnifying glass "search" and put in the caliber of rifle you might be interested in.

It will take you too many many calibers of your choosing.
It will cover factory loads & reload advantages too.

Last edited by Don_Parsons; 07-23-2017 at 08:38 PM.
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  #63  
Old 07-23-2017, 08:35 PM
Salavee Salavee is online now
 
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This sounds like a mission for Mr. Nosler Partition.

Lol .. sure does !
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  #64  
Old 07-24-2017, 12:58 AM
JD848 JD848 is offline
 
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Lol .. sure does !
x 3 after 40 years of dropping stuff with ,they work very well,at every camp fire after 4 decades somehow certain topics come up about bullet choice and the partition always had positive comments, ,but till this day there a very fine bullet along with many other nosler products.There the lead dog and will be for some time.
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  #65  
Old 07-24-2017, 01:13 PM
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I load only premium bullets for my hunting rifles. Nosler Partition was my go to bullet for years. I never had a failure or issue with them, even when their lead tips were mashed, they flew MOA of Elk, Moose or Deer. I've lately started using Barnes bullets because they just happen to be a lot more available to purchase lately. I believe the best use of a "good Bullet" is on a quartering away or toward shot, or for those who like to take out a shoulder at the shot. For most hunting applications they aren't needed, but if you have a wounded critter running away from you and you get the Texas heart opportunity or nothing, you want a bullet that will hold together and penetrate. I don't promote taking a lousy first shot, but it happens. Follow up shots are usually even less ideal situations.
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  #66  
Old 07-24-2017, 05:07 PM
gitrdun gitrdun is offline
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Originally Posted by sns2 View Post
This sounds like a mission for Mr. Nosler Partition.
As much as I know Partitions to be a great terminal performance bullet, I must admit that I've never used them. For a great many years, I've had superb results from Speer Grand Slams which are much differently constructed compared to a Partition. These days, my go to hunting bullets are Sierra Game Kings and Pro Hunters. As well, these 2 bullets have yet to fail me.
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  #67  
Old 07-24-2017, 05:32 PM
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Nothing lives with a hole in its lungs!

Sent from my LG-H812 using Tapatalk
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  #68  
Old 07-24-2017, 05:45 PM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is online now
 
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A bullet that fragments might help with a bad shot if you are lucky and a fragment veers off into a vital organ or artery, but it's just as likely to turn a good shot into a bad shot by hitting bone, and not reaching the vitals. A larger caliber may or may not help, because the expanded bullet is what makes the wound, not the unfired bullet, so a smaller caliber bullet may actually cause a larger wound channel.
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  #69  
Old 07-24-2017, 05:58 PM
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Nothing lives with a hole in its lungs!

Sent from my LG-H812 using Tapatalk
According to the internet and discussion forums, it is far much more complex than that.
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  #70  
Old 07-24-2017, 07:04 PM
Salavee Salavee is online now
 
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Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
A bullet that fragments might help with a bad shot if you are lucky and a fragment veers off into a vital organ or artery, but it's just as likely to turn a good shot into a bad shot by hitting bone, and not reaching the vitals. A larger caliber may or may not help, because the expanded bullet is what makes the wound, not the unfired bullet, so a smaller caliber bullet may actually cause a larger wound channel.
The gist of your last sentence escapes me but from what I have seen, a bullet that sheds a few fragments will help with a good shot as well... much more so than having the whole bullet embedded in a tree on the off side.
With a vital zone of a couple of sq ft. or more on an Elk or Moose any half decent bullet will do the job if given a proper chance. Overthinking a bullet's terminal performance hasn't killed anything that I know of... be it from a larger calibre ,or smaller, such as a bullet that deflects off bone. That may not be the bullets fault as there are poor bullet/calibre and terminal velocity choices for particular jobs that do require a bit of forethought.
Just my take.
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  #71  
Old 07-24-2017, 07:24 PM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is online now
 
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Originally Posted by Salavee View Post
The gist of your last sentence escapes me but from what I have seen, a bullet that sheds a few fragments will help with a good shot as well... much more so than having the whole bullet embedded in a tree on the off side.
With a vital zone of a couple of sq ft. or more on an Elk or Moose any half decent bullet will do the job if given a proper chance. Overthinking a bullet's terminal performance hasn't killed anything that I know of... be it from a larger calibre ,or smaller, such as a bullet that deflects off bone. That may not be the bullets fault as there are poor bullet/calibre and terminal velocity choices for particular jobs that do require a bit of forethought.
Just my take.
The gist of my last sentence is, that a smaller diameter bullet may expand more, and actually create a larger wound channel than a larger diameter bullet that doesn't expand as much. Therefore simply using a larger caliber bullet, may not be a benefit in all situations.
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  #72  
Old 07-24-2017, 08:16 PM
Salavee Salavee is online now
 
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Understood. Therin lies the trade-off between rapid expansion and resultant velocity loss and penetration/retained momentum.
It was the "unfired" word that prompted my response regarding the last sentence. Obviously a typo. All good.
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  #73  
Old 07-24-2017, 08:21 PM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is online now
 
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Originally Posted by Salavee View Post
Understood. Therin lies the trade-off between rapid expansion and resultant velocity loss and penetration/retained momentum.
It was the "unfired" word that prompted my response regarding the last sentence. Obviously a typo. All good.
Unfired was not a typo,an unfired bullet has not expanded, and the point was that it's not the diameter of an unfired bullet that determines the wound size.
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  #74  
Old 07-24-2017, 11:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Kurt505 View Post
And will a bigger caliber make up for a bad bullet?

Or I s there a different formula for each individual hunter that would work best?
No ...
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  #75  
Old 07-24-2017, 11:39 PM
Salavee Salavee is online now
 
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Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
Unfired was not a typo,an unfired bullet has not expanded, and the point was that it's not the diameter of an unfired bullet that determines the wound size.
Doesn't that depend a lot on the resistance it meets ? .. if fired.
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  #76  
Old 07-25-2017, 09:15 AM
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Doesn't that depend a lot on the resistance it meets ? .. if fired.
No, it depends equally on velocity and construction. An FMJ vs a Speer TNT is a dramatic example.

A 7mm 140gr Berger vs a 140gr Etip or TTSX is a relative example.
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  #77  
Old 07-25-2017, 09:20 AM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is online now
 
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Originally Posted by Salavee View Post
Doesn't that depend a lot on the resistance it meets ? .. if fired.
Assuming that the bullets strike the same media,, the bullet construction, and the velocity are the major factors in how much a bullet expands.
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  #78  
Old 07-25-2017, 09:42 AM
Salavee Salavee is online now
 
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OK , I always thought it was resistance that triggered the inherent expansion properties of a particular bullet... not velocity.
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  #79  
Old 07-25-2017, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Salavee View Post
OK , I always thought it was resistance that triggered the inherent expansion properties of a particular bullet... not velocity.
You need both velocity and a media that tries to reduce the velocity of the bullet. Without both, there will be no expansion.
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  #80  
Old 07-25-2017, 10:13 AM
Salavee Salavee is online now
 
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Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
You need both velocity and a media that tries to reduce the velocity of the bullet. Without both, there will be no expansion.
Understood . Now, would an increase in velocity increase the resistance, or would it decrease the ability of the bullet to overcome that resistance ?
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  #81  
Old 07-28-2017, 08:08 PM
Suzukisam Suzukisam is offline
 
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No but a gun range would. Sorry could not resist
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  #82  
Old 07-28-2017, 08:41 PM
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Velocity, Media, Construction, Expansion, Resistance, Momentum. None of those matter. It's all about the size of the horseshoe you stick up your arse and how well you grease it.
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