Will a good bullet help with a bad shot?

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

No replacement for displacement. Maybe. But not in my personal experience.

I've gone full circle on this.

Started out with a 308, moved to a 280, then a few different magnums, back down to a 280, and now back down to a 6.5 Creedmoor.

I've never noticed a difference in the performance of any of these cartridges/calibers (and a bunch of cartridges not listed) on big game, but I have noticed a difference in bullets.

In my opinion bullet construction is a good replacement for displacement.

I'm not going around on this again but I will say this .. If bullet construction is a replacement for displacement, give this a try. Pick your bullet, pick your caliber ,then increase the diameter of that same bullets diameter by 25% in a suitable cartridge and see what happens at closing time.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Salavee

I'm not going around on this again but I will say this .. If bullet construction is a replacement for displacement, give this a try. Pick your bullet, pick your caliber ,then increase the diameter of that same bullets diameter by 25% in a suitable cartridge and see what happens at closing time.

I'm not doubting it will be more power, I am however doubting it's necessary for ranges of say 500yds or less. I think in the long range game that a magnum case is necessary, but even in the long range game I don't think a larger caliber is necessary.

Damn phone, I keep hitting the automatic words that come up on my keyboard and make crazy sentences. Sorry guys.

[densa44]

I thought that if a gun had "MAGNUM" stamped on the barrel it didn't matter what you shot. The deer was as good as dead as soon as you bought the rifle.

I have similar answers to questions about practicing with your hunting rifle.

[DiabeticKripple]

Originally Posted by Desert Eagle

I don't think they will for sure change the game. However, some difference will be in the chambering/bullet choice for marginal shots. For example....

1. Medium white tail buck shot in the brisket with 7mag, 168 better hinting VLD at 85 meters. We finally tracked him down and finished him off 7 miles later.. same shot with a Nosler Partition would have ended the chase much sooner.

2. 308 on a hard quartered elk or moose. May have to pad up shot. 300 win mag with properly sized premium bullet, still not a questionable shot.

3. Here is one experience of to "hard" of bullet. Whitetail buck large facing straight away about 350 meters. Shot a bit below the vent, 300 win mag with 180 TSX. Bullet penetrated one lung and we finally found him. But it was a long tracking process. I think that the situation would have been much different with the shock factor from a partition type bullet and put him down sooner.

4. Caliber choice. I have been luck enough to try many different calibers over the years. Some are definite hard hitters. 338 federal and 338-06 would surprise most people of their effectiveness.

Not all above animals were taken by me, but I've had the joy of a few rodeos out there.

situation would have been much different if you had chose a better shot than trying to shoot through 3ft of animal before hitting vitals.




I think a good bullet will increase your chances of getting a cleaner kill, but wont substitute for a bad shot. still need to hit vitals to kill.

I shot a WT buck quartering towards me at like 10-15yds with a 139gr GMX 7mm Rem Mag. Bullet hit the front shoulder and i found about a third of it buried in the hide on the far side. Deer ran about 30yds and piled up. If i had used a different bullet, results might have been a longer tracking job.

[elkdump]

Originally Posted by densa44

I thought that if a gun had "MAGNUM" stamped on the barrel it didn't matter what you shot. The deer was as good as dead as soon as you bought the rifle.

I have similar answers to questions about practicing with your hunting rifle.

Yup, I see your point,

For more than 30 years, I've killed moose and elk and Grizz with everything from and old .303 surplus Enfield worth $19.95 and $5 dollar a box of CIL ammo all the way up to a .416 magnum and ammo worth $185 a box for 20 rounds,,

Last fall an elk dropped on the spot from a 100 grn blue box federal bullet from a .243 win at 200 yards, bang flop on the spot, lost 20+ pounds of meat to a destroyed front shoulder! the lungs were pulverized!
that got me thinking ????big game Dropping dead on the spot from the 1st shot, isn't fast enough for me in my old age,,

So a couple weeks ago I bought me a .375 Ruger , now a 270 grn bullet at 2900 ft per second those hairy boogers ( elk) are gonna hit the ground even FASTER !
Close to 6000 ft pounds of energy otta even make it easier to skin them out ? There will be less elk inside his hide, woo hoo

They will be deader than DEAD ! ,,, , this is a good thing , right ? lmao

Why did I buy a .375 Ruger ?? Well it is because I CAN !

There !

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

The shot that haunts me, the one specific shot that makes me wonder about caliber and bullet construction was taken with a 300wsm using a 165gr ttsx. It was on a whitetail and hit the front shoulder broadside.

Long story short, never did recover the deer.

Some things that do not work out will remain a mystery.

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by Deo101

Guess I'm bored too.

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

I am just trying to take in a few non political threads. Yep bored!

[JD848]

deleted by mistake

[58thecat]

Bad shot is just that period!
Need to follow up with a great shot immediately. Nufsaid!

[abbgdr]

No follow up shot on a wounded animal,, every excuse for why not to is as lame as the first shot

[NW Tradegunner]

Here's another theory: just use a rifle that is a matched to the size of the animal. eg. When I shoot a gopher with 50 grain V-Max out of my .221 Fireball; you hit it anywhere, be it the leg, shoulder, hip, side of the head or heaven forbid, the body! It's not going anywhere unless in 20 directions all at once!
So, take, say take deer or a moose and use a 50 Calibre BMG; I'm guessing you'd get the same result! The only problem is you get the animal with one shot and it won't go far but there wouldn't be much useable meat left!

[Deer Hunter]

You don't need a premium bullet until you do.
For some reason big whitetails don't stand broadside for long.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by abbgdr

No follow up shot on a wounded animal,, every excuse for why not to is as lame as the first shot

Even doing something illegal?

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by abbgdr

No follow up shot on a wounded animal,, every excuse for why not to is as lame as the first shot

Hmmmm we all have made a bad first shot, things happen, you need to make the next one count.

You don't make the follow shot up on a marginal first shot? You must be a great hunter/marksman.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

Hmmmm we all have made a bad first shot, things happen, you need to make the next one count.

You don't make the follow shot up on a marginal first shot? You must be a great hunter/marksman.

I think what he was suggesting is that there are no excuses for not making a follow up shot.

My case is different, after my first shot the buck dropped dead, or at least I thought he was dead. The thing is, is that I had been stalking up to him for over an hour and at the end of legal shooting time I was still 400yds out so it was take the shot at 400yds or call it a day. I took the shot and the buck dropped flat and didn't move a muscle for 10-15min, then he got up. Now it's too late to legally take another shot, and in all honesty I didn't think it was necessary by the way he was struggling to move. I later called fish and wildlife and asked if I could have taken the follow up shot legally at that time, the answer was no, but he said if I had called in to report it, they may have let it slide after the call. I'm not sure if it would have been legal at that time or they would have just chosen to over look a phone call had one come in over it.

The one rookie mistake I made was I never immediately ran up to the deer, but this buck was one of, if not the biggest bucks I have ever seen, and definitely had more mass than any buck I had ever seen. After the shot and watching him for about 5min I thought for sure it was game over and that's when the adrenaline kicked in and I dropped and layed there for about another 5-10min taking it all in. That's when I got the text "he got up!". My friends had been watching it all unfold from about 3/4 of a mile away, way up on a hilltop. Now all I could do was watch him stumble away, thinking I'll recover him in the morning.

I learned a lesson I thought I already knew

[BuckCuller]

I learned my lesson, unless I'm 100% sure where I hit the deer I close the distance right away and keep an eye on them in case.
I knocked one out one time and he hit the dirt a couple of kicks and layer there.
It was a big buck and I decided there was no hurry and waited for a couple hunting partners. This was on a push in my younger years.
Just as they walked over the hill the buck stands up and takes off like a rocket on rails.
He was out for long enough I could have walked right up to him and put another one in him but thought he was done.
Where his imprint in the snow was it showed I had knocked him behind the head.
I chased him all day and am positive he would have easily survived that one.
Some times stuff happens but I try to prepare now.

[mgvande]

I've stopped fussing at the range trying to attain 1/2 groups. Now after I get my load and the gun sighted in. It's all unsupported prone, standing and sitting. No bags unless I'm checking zero for a hunt. As far as bullet, there are lots of good ones.

[hilt134]

Shot enough squirrles with a 500 fps pellet gun to know a good shot kills instantly or close to. But a 50 bmg to the tail is less than lethal. As for the bullet idea if we are saying a bad shot is nicking a lung or the heart than you might be better off with a larger caliber. But if you are either that inexperianced or far away you need to rethink hunting that season. That being said a 338 lapua doesnt kill a deer any more than a 243 does. Dead is desd.

[Dick284]

What is a good bullet?

For me it's firstly a purpose built bullet for the game I plan on hunting. Secondly it's gotta go where it's supposed to consistently.

My loading bench has many red boxes of lead tipped bullets on it, with a few less green boxes with lead tipped bullets, and then a few boxes of gold colour with a funny H jacket design.

And I don't feel the bullet alone will turn a poorly placed shot into a deadly killer, I actually believe many of the uber controlled expansion type bullets may have a negative effect towards fringe kill zone hits as there are fewer secondary projectiles upon expansion to wander into the kill zone, but that's mostly on broadside shots, and pretty much like playing craps, as sometimes you win a few, but inevitably you'll lose one.

Up your game through judicious practice, learn your limits in the field, and stay 10% below your limit religiously!

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Dick284

I actually believe many of the uber controlled expansion type bullets may have a negative effect towards fringe kill zone hits as there are fewer secondary projectiles upon expansion to wander into the kill zone, but that's mostly on broadside shots, and pretty much like playing craps

Can't say I disagree with anything you said, but this is precisely what I'm getting at. I know ultimately that buck getting away was my fault but I can't help but think had I used a different bullet that the deer would have "stayed dead".

So in this case I don't think it's about the cartridge because 400yds isn't out of the performance range of a 300 magnum with a 165gr Barnes, I think it's the bullet that could have made the difference.

[Dick284]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

Can't say I disagree with anything you said, but this is precisely what I'm getting at. I know ultimately that buck getting away was my fault but I can't help but think had I used a different bullet that the deer would have "stayed dead".

So in this case I don't think it's about the cartridge because 400yds isn't out of the performance range of a 300 magnum with a 165gr Barnes, I think it's the bullet that could have made the difference.

Woulda coulda shoulda, stuff happens, wishing hoping and beating yourself up over it won't let you change what happened, or necessarily change what might happen in the future. Moving beyond this incident is what you need to do.

[Daka]

Good bullet constriction can help if so-so shot is placed but nothing repairs the damage of bad shot placement.
Bigger caliber for short distance stopping power works fine and magnum calibres have longer distances better knock down power but also harder to shoot accurately. Defenetly it is important to have good bullet constriction but accuracy is the most important.
All things are factors to have better shot but there is nothing that can compesate good shot placement.

[rem338win]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

Barnes are supposed to penetrate but not in this case. It seems the bullet deflected big time. Broken front shoulder on a broadside shot and no blood coming out the far side. Would a 140gr ballistic tip out of my 280 have killed him? I can't help but think so.

Best advice I ever received from a deer guide that has seen as many 180" WT hit the ground as any other: for deer, just make sure you hit them in the front half. For everything else, shoot them like you'd shoot a deer.

I've shot lots of different bullets and the two most effective and consistent bullets I've ever shot are Barnes TTSX and Hornady Interlocks. I've never had one deflect or do anything weird from 30 to 600m.

I've also never supposed a thing unless I got to see the animal in hand to form an opinion.

If you want consistent and predictable then shoot a cup and core no faster than 2800fps MV.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Shoot a firearm you can handle comfortably and shoot accurately, it doesn't matter how hard it hammers you or the game if you are scared to shoot it.

LC

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

I think what he was suggesting is that there are no excuses for not making a follow up shot.

My case is different, after my first shot the buck dropped dead, or at least I thought he was dead. The thing is, is that I had been stalking up to him for over an hour and at the end of legal shooting time I was still 400yds out so it was take the shot at 400yds or call it a day. I took the shot and the buck dropped flat and didn't move a muscle for 10-15min, then he got up. Now it's too late to legally take another shot, and in all honesty I didn't think it was necessary by the way he was struggling to move. I later called fish and wildlife and asked if I could have taken the follow up shot legally at that time, the answer was no, but he said if I had called in to report it, they may have let it slide after the call. I'm not sure if it would have been legal at that time or they would have just chosen to over look a phone call had one come in over it.


The one rookie mistake I made was I never immediately ran up to the deer, but this buck was one of, if not the biggest bucks I have ever seen, and definitely had more mass than any buck I had ever seen. After the shot and watching him for about 5min I thought for sure it was game over and that's when the adrenaline kicked in and I dropped and layed there for about another 5-10min taking it all in. That's when I got the text "he got up!". My friends had been watching it all unfold from about 3/4 of a mile away, way up on a hilltop. Now all I could do was watch him stumble away, thinking I'll recover him in the morning.

I learned a lesson I thought I already knew

Yup been there, dropped the biggest whitetail I have ever seen with my Hawkins, instead of pouring powder etc I got all caught up just to see a deer of a lifetime hobble off...never found him, still haunts me to this day, gagger of a buck is all I can say but what I got out of it and to answer the OP's question, nothing, simply nothing can help with a bad shot, not bullet construction etc other than a timely well placed second shot...things happen.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

Shoot a firearm you can handle comfortably and shoot accurately, it doesn't matter how hard it hammers you or the game if you are scared to shoot it.

LC

Yup. But this has nothing to do with that. A 300mag in any platform isn't a rifle that intimidates me, and I've put 1000's of rounds through the pipes of magnum rifles, having owned and developed loads for a half a dozen or so 300 magnums. I don't think I've ever shot a rifle more accurately than my 300wby accumark. But the rifle that seems to kill everything I point it at is a Winchester 280rem with 140gr bst's.

[JD848]

Originally Posted by Dick284

Woulda coulda shoulda, stuff happens, wishing hoping and beating yourself up over it won't let you change what happened, or necessarily change what might happen in the future. Moving beyond this incident is what you need to do.

I agree with Dick that putting this deal behind you is the best thing to do,if you never had a nightmare while hunting you haven't hunted enough,i myself would feel the same and I would never shoot that same bullet again and just move on.lotsa new and good stuff to reload and some older stuff is still at the top.If a guy looks for that deer for days and you did your best and I am very sure Kurt did,somtimes for whatever reason it is what it is .Any hunter would try and figure out what happened get haunted by it,but it wasn't meant to be.

All you can do is go back out and you never know what will walk out on you and hopefully that gene pool brings out another cranker.

[Pathfinder76]

So what answers are we trying to solve in this discussion?

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by chuck

So what answers are we trying to solve in this discussion?

Dick touched a bit on what I was thinking, that a bullet that fragments a lot may make a difference on a marginal shot, but I'm not sure the cartridge has as much of a difference.

[Dick284]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

Dick touched a bit on what I was thinking, that a bullet that fragments a lot may make a difference on a marginal shot, but I'm not sure the cartridge has as much of a difference.

Woah there Tonto.

I meant to infer that with some secondary projectiles. I still want to see some ability for the bullet to still penetrate to some degree, and even exit(I'm a 2 leaking holes guy).

I don't prescribe to the detonation theory expounded by Berger, and yes I've seen and read such accounts. I just like a middle of the road approach.