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  #91  
Old 05-28-2017, 01:37 PM
elkdump elkdump is offline
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Unfortunately the internet , the media and modern digital technology cannot provide or instil common sense ,,,

Hunting is doomed
  #92  
Old 05-28-2017, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by bobtodrick View Post
You should learn to read...I never criticized young hunters.
I said there are two types of people...the kind who feel the goal is what's important and those that think the journey is what's important.
Both are after the 'goal' (the deer in the freezer), but it's often the the first (like you it would seem) who make no attempt to understand the second.
Pretty broad conclusion. I would think most enjoy the second more than the first. There are easier ways to get meat in the freezer, ways that are less time consuming, and less expensive. I have yet to run into a hunter who says, "Ugh I hate hunting, I only like pulling the trigger". People might assume that because the kill is what is talked about. Going out on a pretty far limb if you think users of technology and new hunters etc. do not appreciate/understand what hunting is all about.

And who is to say what the journey is? The journey? Sounds pretty philosophical to me. If you like something, do it! And if technology makes your hobby even more enjoyable, use it!
  #93  
Old 05-28-2017, 02:16 PM
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So basically do what ever makes you happy within the confines of the law. When it comes down to it, your opinion is the only one that matters. Have fun doing what you like this fall people!
  #94  
Old 05-28-2017, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by sns2 View Post
He should learn some manners while he's at it.
Did not want to highjack the thread of the monster bear report, which is a great bear by the way!


The OP started a thread criticizing new hunters. Any criticism towards hunting, especially directed at new hunters is unacceptable to me and it should be to the rest of AO. We are under fire and losing the battle as it is.

You may want to read this thread. I just cannot understand when anyone criticizes hunters and in such a public way.
http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=321591
  #95  
Old 05-28-2017, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Fur View Post
Did not want to highjack the thread of the monster bear report, which is a great bear by the way!


The OP started a thread criticizing new hunters. Any criticism towards hunting, especially directed at new hunters is unacceptable to me and it should be to the rest of AO. We are under fire and losing the battle as it is.

You may want to read this thread. I just cannot understand when anyone criticizes hunters and in such a public way.
http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=321591
PM sent.
  #96  
Old 05-28-2017, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fur View Post
Did not want to highjack the thread of the monster bear report, which is a great bear by the way!


The OP started a thread criticizing new hunters. Any criticism towards hunting, especially directed at new hunters is unacceptable to me and it should be to the rest of AO. We are under fire and losing the battle as it is.

You may want to read this thread. I just cannot understand when anyone criticizes hunters and in such a public way.
http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=321591
Notice you don't seem to have anyone on your side Fur?
  #97  
Old 05-28-2017, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Big Grey Wolf View Post
Guys you ever wonder why Boone & Crocket say it must be taken by "Fair Chase" or cannot be entered into the record books.
Their book. Their rules.

I have never checked their rules. Does Boone and Crocket define fair chase?
  #98  
Old 05-28-2017, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Newview01 View Post
After the bow and arrow was invented, I wonder if the old-timer stone club users derided the people who used the new technology.
If they had internet they might have. If they had AO more probable.
  #99  
Old 05-28-2017, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Bigstone View Post
Technology and improved equipment is making hunters more successful and increasing kill rates thus reducing opportunity to hunt. There is no debate here, ask any biologist.
There is a debate here and I do not have to ask a biologist. I have been hunting for over 50 years and for sure equipment has improved and hunters are more successful.

That said I have more opportunity now than ever. When I was a young man there was one big game tag which for the most part allowed one male moose, or one male elk, or one male deer. In some areas for a day or two near the end of the season a cow or does was permitted. In some areas a male white tail could be purchased extra and antelope was on a write in draw.

Now in white tail alone, I could possess and general tag which would allow a doe in some areas, a supplemental which would allow 2 does in some areas and not to mention being drawn a special whitetail doe tag in some areas.

In some areas a mule doe special license can be expected every other year.

I could go on but I don't need a biologist to tell me I don't have as much opportunity as I used to.
  #100  
Old 05-28-2017, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by covey ridge View Post
There is a debate here and I do not have to ask a biologist. I have been hunting for over 50 years and for sure equipment has improved and hunters are more successful.

That said I have more opportunity now than ever. When I was a young man there was one big game tag which for the most part allowed one male moose, or one male elk, or one male deer. In some areas for a day or two near the end of the season a cow or does was permitted. In some areas a male white tail could be purchased extra and antelope was on a write in draw.

Now in white tail alone, I could possess and general tag which would allow a doe in some areas, a supplemental which would allow 2 does in some areas and not to mention being drawn a special whitetail doe tag in some areas.

In some areas a mule doe special license can be expected every other year.

I could go on but I don't need a biologist to tell me I don't have as much opportunity as I used to.
X 2 !

I can remember hunting in BC , years ago, when,,,

Bag limit examples,

2 moose per year ,for resident hunters , GOS bullmoose opened Aug 15 and lasted till mid December, GOS antler-less moose for 2 weeks most regions,

5 black bears per year, for residents

3 mule deer, both sexes

GOS caribou,

GOS Grizzly seasons, spring and fall

There were NO antler-less elk seasons, only a very small window for 3 point or better bull elk and then a GOS for 6point bulls or better,

Elk hunting was a challenge and an obsession, not waiting for a limited entry tag, hoping to shoot "fish elk in a barrel hunts"

But then at that time,

No internet advertising of GPS coordinates between other hunters, looking for a living elk, sheep or moose etc,,,

No ATVs by the 1000,s ripping apart the wilderness, 24/7 / 365 days a year

No millions of klms of new and old cut lines and pipelines and O&G roads to intercept unfortunate wildlife in their safe zones,,

Most average guys hunted with a surplus rifle and open sites, on foot or horseback

It was very Rare to see dead big game on average roads and highways, traffic was much less, so was speed

There are a few reasons wildlife has diminished greatly,, !

I am so fortunate to have enjoyed hunting game those former days,,

If I had to start today ?? I think I would say pizz on it , take up golf
  #101  
Old 05-28-2017, 04:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elkdump View Post
X 2 !

I can remember hunting in BC , years ago, when,,,

Bag limit examples,

2 moose per year ,for resident hunters , GOS bullmoose opened Aug 15 and lasted till mid December, GOS antler-less moose for 2 weeks most regions,

5 black bears per year, for residents

3 mule deer, both sexes

GOS caribou,

GOS Grizzly seasons, spring and fall

There were NO antler-less elk seasons, only a very small window for 3 point or better bull elk and then a GOS for 6point bulls or better,

Elk hunting was a challenge and an obsession, not waiting for a limited entry tag, hoping to shoot "fish elk in a barrel hunts"

But then at that time,

No internet advertising of GPS coordinates between other hunters, looking for a living elk, sheep or moose etc,,,

No ATVs by the 1000,s ripping apart the wilderness, 24/7 / 365 days a year

No millions of klms of new and old cut lines and pipelines and O&G roads to intercept unfortunate wildlife in their safe zones,,

Most average guys hunted with a surplus rifle and open sites, on foot or horseback

It was very Rare to see dead big game on average roads and highways, traffic was much less, so was speed

There are a few reasons wildlife has diminished greatly,, !

I am so fortunate to have enjoyed hunting game those former days,,

If I had to start today ?? I think I would say pizz on it , take up golf
Hard to argue. Good post.
  #102  
Old 05-28-2017, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fur View Post
Did not want to highjack the thread of the monster bear report, which is a great bear by the way!


The OP started a thread criticizing new hunters. Any criticism towards hunting, especially directed at new hunters is unacceptable to me and it should be to the rest of AO. We are under fire and losing the battle as it is.

You may want to read this thread. I just cannot understand when anyone criticizes hunters and in such a public way.
http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=321591
And you my good man have absolutely no clue as to what my message is. I'll spell it out for you, it isn't criticism but a suggestion to perhaps get back to a thing that "we grumpy old men" used to call "fair chase". A pair of boots, a rifle, a compass and a knife on your belt. When you connect and bring home the venison, the sense of accomplishment is as they say "priceless". Have you forgotten "fair chase"? or perhaps you've never experienced it....sad really.
  #103  
Old 05-28-2017, 06:28 PM
Don_Parsons Don_Parsons is offline
 
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My apologies for my bad spelling.

Add on too my earlier post on this thread.

My first harvest was in 1978 ish with nothing more than a old rusty rifle with iron sights,,, bent barrel since I couldn't hit anything if I tried. Dull knife, and running shoes. My rain coat was garbage bags. Ha. I managed to borrow some binoculars that were held together with black electrical tape as the one lens would focuse in,,, the other lens was pooched. LOL.

Years later I ran into a fellow that Elk bugle me in. He scared the crap out of me since he was part of the forest,,, I knew then that it was time too up my game plan.

The next harvest season I had a new Midland 30/06 with a 4 power Wever scope, hunting boots, new binoculars, game calls, and about $1200 less in my bank account. That was alot of money and the timing couldn't of been worse as the Federal Energy Policy came along in 1980/81... The lights were turned off in Alberta and it was dam tuff too find a job... At least I didn't own too much new stuff back then.

Any-who,,, I was lucky as I kept what I had, then 4 years later I went on the buying band-wagon.
Lots of rifles, high end optics, enough camo gear too share with everyone in town.

New 4x4, out fitters tents, boats, campers, trailers, re-loading, fly tying, lead bullet making, wood stock lathe, firearms course, and everything related too the out-doors. Ha... I had so much on the go that I never went Harvesting for 8 years after that because my plate was running over with too much stuff.

I was a fool as I allowed my self too get sucked in beyond my means.

It all changed at the age of 37. A "Less is More" idea came into play.
I kept the basics, thinned out the masses, and change the program that allows me too spend more time in the mountains, foot hills, and Prairie grass lands.

I have a bit of everything, some of 2,,, and nothing that didn't not get used from the too much program.

I joined this forum last year as my firearms cabinet was getting thinned out,,, way too much in that department and boxes of optics that are soon too go as well.

Archery was the better thing that came into my life,,, it allows me too find that niche in "Me" that was missing.
It still dictates the ever changing plan,,, but does limit where my funds go.

Yes I bought a new mid priced scope a few weeks ago, now I sell 2 scopes too pay for it. "new optics has O mill dots that my not too old scopes don't have.

Some areas will see tech improvements in my lifetime, some areas will remain the same,,, other parts will not be added onto.

I can't go back too the old rusty bent rifle wearing my running shoes, or garbage bag rain coat.

Improvements are part of my life today, that new truck is now a old truck,,, a backup truck is on stand-by.
The old OHV is on stand-by too" if" a game harvest takes place.

Today looking back at the over masses idea,,, I kinda wish it was on a smaller scale, but it did show me how to have stuff that fits in, in other areas in life.

Kinda like a multi tool that can do this or that,,, some stuff that is.

Many folks are wize shoppers, and this is gooder as it saves them funds and it allows them too expand on their happenings.

Each person knows what they need, can afford, or wants.
I'm guilty as charged for not planning ahead back then,,, but was lucky too get my second wind at tapping it kool on the spending department.

I'm lucky the hand pistol thing did not last long as I got in and out at brake even. Yes I took a licking on some categories that did not pan-out,,, done ok with the rifle thin out this year.

Next on my plate is new camo cover-alls since my old stuff is pretty ripped up from wear and tear. LOL

Don
  #104  
Old 05-28-2017, 07:19 PM
Jamie Jamie is offline
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Rewind 200 years ago..

You white hunters... You never hear of using a buffalo jump? All this fancy dancey muzzleloading stuff.. Riding around on your fancy pony. By god when we were younger no one had a horse!!


Sigh............
  #105  
Old 05-28-2017, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by covey ridge View Post
There is a debate here and I do not have to ask a biologist. I have been hunting for over 50 years and for sure equipment has improved and hunters are more successful.

That said I have more opportunity now than ever. When I was a young man there was one big game tag which for the most part allowed one male moose, or one male elk, or one male deer. In some areas for a day or two near the end of the season a cow or does was permitted. In some areas a male white tail could be purchased extra and antelope was on a write in draw.

Now in white tail alone, I could possess and general tag which would allow a doe in some areas, a supplemental which would allow 2 does in some areas and not to mention being drawn a special whitetail doe tag in some areas.

In some areas a mule doe special license can be expected every other year.

I could go on but I don't need a biologist to tell me I don't have as much opportunity as I used to.
Which is it? Do you have more or less opportunity?

Have no idea where you are referring to but where I live you could do all you mention every year and if you wanted fill your tags. Now it's draw and pray! For fifteen years in some cases. I think you do need to speak to a biologist....soon!
  #106  
Old 05-28-2017, 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Bigstone View Post
Which is it? Do you have more or less opportunity?

Have no idea where you are referring to but where I live you could do all you mention every year and if you wanted fill your tags. Now it's draw and pray! For fifteen years in some cases. I think you do need to speak to a biologist....soon!
The last line of my previos post was confusing.
I have more opportunity now than way back. I hunt in southern Alberta. Like I said, when I started hunting for the most part was one tag and entitled to one animal. Now the worst I can do is one general white tail tag and one supplemental tag and one general elk tag. If I put in for antlered mule deer it is about every third year. Antlerless mule deer and Antlerless Whitetail is supposed to be about every two years but I have drawn one or the other every year. I got my last moose about two years ago so it will probably take me another 10 or 11 to get drawn.
Except for about three years ago when I did not get out much because of a health issue I only got one small deer. I usually get two animals per year and hang the rest of the tags on my Christmas tree. I have seen more deer and elk and moose in the area I go that ever before.
Other than moose, opportunities to hunt seem better than ever.
I am way off the OP's intent. I was just responding to your statement that there was less opportunity because of better equipment. Not true anywhere near where I hunt.
  #107  
Old 05-28-2017, 09:36 PM
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For the most part, I like the modern hunters. They leave more for me because they don't like to go where their technology won't work. Or where they have to pack it in on their backs.

That leaves a lot of territory for guys like me who don't mind roughing it a bit.
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  #108  
Old 05-28-2017, 09:50 PM
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Originally Posted by covey ridge View Post
The last line of my previos post was confusing.
I have more opportunity now than way back. I hunt in southern Alberta. Like I said, when I started hunting for the most part was one tag and entitled to one animal. Now the worst I can do is one general white tail tag and one supplemental tag and one general elk tag. If I put in for antlered mule deer it is about every third year. Antlerless mule deer and Antlerless Whitetail is supposed to be about every two years but I have drawn one or the other every year. I got my last moose about two years ago so it will probably take me another 10 or 11 to get drawn.
Except for about three years ago when I did not get out much because of a health issue I only got one small deer. I usually get two animals per year and hang the rest of the tags on my Christmas tree. I have seen more deer and elk and moose in the area I go that ever before.
Other than moose, opportunities to hunt seem better than ever.
I am way off the OP's intent. I was just responding to your statement that there was less opportunity because of better equipment. Not true anywhere near where I hunt.
How about "equipment that makes it easier to kill with"? For example: Advances in bow hunting equipment have dramatically increased success rate to the point over the past twentyfive years that bows are restricted similarly to rifle hunters. This is not the only reason opportunity has declined but it is significant. If you used the traditional bows of twentyfive to thirty years ago I would bet you would have a much longer bow season including females. This is a fact. Rifles and related gear have a similar impact.

I'm familiar with western central AB and there is no doubt there are less moose, deer, elk, and black bear than I have ever seen. Friends in northern AB tell me the same story. Some areas in eastern and southern AB do have more elk and moose than years ago but this is an unusual situation and not at all representative of the province. Be happy you live where you do.
  #109  
Old 05-29-2017, 05:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Fur View Post
Please comment.

I have no problem explaining why I enjoy the outdoors. The OP started a thread criticizing new and up coming hunters. If you want to spit in the face of the future of this sport go ahead. The OP and you should be embarrassed about criticizing young hunters.
Or any hunters legally pursuing game...jeepers fellas/gals the anti's are having a field day with this thread.
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  #110  
Old 05-29-2017, 05:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Donny Bear View Post
I hunted with a trapper Nelson pack board wool mackinaws andMcleods brand work boots and would never have shot a squeaker Ram!

Now I have a stone Galacier pack all great gear super light, Vortex and Swarovski optics. Still won't shoot a squeaker. Same passion same guy30 years latter and loving my sport and my passion! Why can't we just be hunters brothers from another mother,sisters from a different dad but hunters, each and everyone that obeys the law and loves the outdoors a family a fraternity.
This sums it up, well said.
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  #111  
Old 05-29-2017, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Bigstone View Post
How about "equipment that makes it easier to kill with"? For example: Advances in bow hunting equipment have dramatically increased success rate to the point over the past twentyfive years that bows are restricted similarly to rifle hunters. This is not the only reason opportunity has declined but it is significant. If you used the traditional bows of twentyfive to thirty years ago I would bet you would have a much longer bow season including females. This is a fact. Rifles and related gear have a similar impact.

I'm familiar with western central AB and there is no doubt there are less moose, deer, elk, and black bear than I have ever seen. Friends in northern AB tell me the same story. Some areas in eastern and southern AB do have more elk and moose than years ago but this is an unusual situation and not at all representative of the province. Be happy you live where you do.
Yes I am sure that the start of the rifle season will make it tougher for the bow hunters who hunt the same zone. But the early bow season may make it tougher for the rifle hunters later.

As far as the archery only zones go, all the technology does not seem to matter much. Those zones are often over populated.

Not sure what is happening in areas central and north but here with the exception of a long wait for a moose draw, there is plenty of opportunity for hunters here. and it is not because us old guys in the south are handicapped by lack of equipment.
  #112  
Old 05-29-2017, 03:26 PM
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The OP may have used the term new hunters in the title of his post but after re reading his post I did not see spitting in the eye of younger or new hunters. There was no doing damage to future generations.

I think he was just urging hunters who have never hunted without all the most modern technology to try something more basic. I think he was also talking to long time hunters that over the years have accumulated all the stuff and asking if it is the stuff or the hunt that is most important.

As far as hunting goes, I think there is room for everyone that pursues game within the laws of where they hunt.

Last edited by covey ridge; 05-29-2017 at 03:37 PM.
  #113  
Old 05-29-2017, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by covey ridge View Post
The OP may have used the term new hunters in the title of his post but after re reading his post I did not see spitting in the eye of younger or new hunters. There was no doing damage to future generations.

I think he was just urging hunters who have never hunted without all the most modern technology to try something more basic. I think he was also talking to long time hunters that over the years have accumulated all the stuff and asking if it is the stuff or the hunt that is most important.

As far as hunting goes, I think there is room for everyone that pursues game with the laws of where they hunt.
That's exactly the way I saw it too. Good post.
  #114  
Old 05-29-2017, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by gitrdun View Post
You've all got this new technology. Game cameras, Internet discussion forums, google maps,cammo this and cammo that, heck you even got cammo seat covers. Massive ATV's, quads, side x sides, Argos. GPS's and all that jazz. You even got range finders, scopes like Huskymomma's, night vision stuff. Seriously now, have you ever considered about giving your God given gifts of sight, smell and hearing against your quarry to make it a "REAL HUNTING" experience? I mean, get back to what real hunting is all about, without the use of the electronic gizzmos. Obviously bow hunters do come into such a category, but they too enjoy some of the advantages of the electronic age. It sure would be nice to see what a "HUNTING" would be like in a more challenging fashion. Comments?
I presume you're going after your animals with a fire-hardened stick that you shaved to a point with a rock?
  #115  
Old 05-29-2017, 04:33 PM
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lol, been hunting since i was old enough to take my hunter safety course and still dont have half the stuff listed by OP. fist time i used a quad for hunting was on the 19th of may and used it to bring in bear bait... shot my fist bear on the 23rd then packed it out on foot so i didnt disturb my buddies hunt.

i guess we are spolied to have cut line and survey lines also.
  #116  
Old 05-29-2017, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by covey ridge View Post
Yes I am sure that the start of the rifle season will make it tougher for the bow hunters who hunt the same zone. But the early bow season may make it tougher for the rifle hunters later.

As far as the archery only zones go, all the technology does not seem to matter much. Those zones are often over populated.

Not sure what is happening in areas central and north but here with the exception of a long wait for a moose draw, there is plenty of opportunity for hunters here. and it is not because us old guys in the south are handicapped by lack of equipment.
Your logic and knowledge is overwhelming and I submit. Your belief that advances in bow and arrow technology have not had an effect on opportunity for bow hunters is what did it for me. Cherry picking archery only zones is misleading and not at all representative. Even in these areas I'm betting moose and mule deer are cut way back.
  #117  
Old 05-29-2017, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by covey ridge View Post
The OP may have used the term new hunters in the title of his post but after re reading his post I did not see spitting in the eye of younger or new hunters. There was no doing damage to future generations.

I think he was just urging hunters who have never hunted without all the most modern technology to try something more basic. I think he was also talking to long time hunters that over the years have accumulated all the stuff and asking if it is the stuff or the hunt that is most important.

As far as hunting goes, I think there is room for everyone that pursues game within the laws of where they hunt.
You've read my post exactly as I meant it covey ridge, as have a few others.
  #118  
Old 05-29-2017, 06:05 PM
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You've read my post exactly as I meant it covey ridge, as have a few others.
Your thread title contradicts your backpedaling explanation.
  #119  
Old 05-29-2017, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Bigstone View Post
. Cherry picking archery only zones is misleading and not at all representative. Even in these areas I'm betting moose and mule deer are cut way back.
You would loose that bet. Some land owners in the archery zone are ticked off because they seem to be over run by deer and elk and "those fence breaking moose."

They claim that archer only hunting does not solve being over run with game and claim for the most part bow hunters just move game from property to property. Some are even ticked at trophy hunters claiming that they pass up opportunities to kill deer because they are waiting for the big one.

In 212 where elk may be shot with a muzzle loader or slug land owners are ticked because all these hunter do is chase them on property that does not allow hunting.

Lots of moose, elk and deer in those zones and getting more even with advanced technology.
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Old 05-29-2017, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by covey ridge View Post
The OP may have used the term new hunters in the title of his post but after re reading his post I did not see spitting in the eye of younger or new hunters. There was no doing damage to future generations.

I think he was just urging hunters who have never hunted without all the most modern technology to try something more basic. I think he was also talking to long time hunters that over the years have accumulated all the stuff and asking if it is the stuff or the hunt that is most important.

As far as hunting goes, I think there is room for everyone that pursues game within the laws of where they hunt.
I have to admit I did what I accuse others of doing. I didn't read the OPs post very carefully. But having talked with him, person to person, and having now read his post carefully, I think you are right.

As for me, I don't use much in the way of modern technology in hunting or fishing. I don't own a lot of electronics. But I have certainly thought about how I would like to try some of it.

I see what the guys with the electronics have to do to get game and fish and I'm happy with doing it old school.

But if such technology had been available when I was young, I have no doubt I would have acquired as much of it as I could, and I would have depended on it to assist me in hunting and fishing.

Now I think I was fortunate that I had no other option but to learn old school ways and I believe I'm better off for it.
It allows me to get away from the crowds, to experience hunting and fishing in a more personal way.

I expect it is near impossible for those who have never experienced old school hunting to even imagine that it can still work much less understand the benefits it provides.

And to be honest, I can't afford to hunt the modern way. Like I said, I don't own much in the way of electronics. I also don't own a quad or other ATV.
I don't own a modern rifle. I don't own a decked out camper.
I can't afford such things, simple as that.

And I can't afford to drive for hours or to drive half way across Canada to harvest game.

That's why I've never hunted Elk or Sheep or Mountain Goats. It's why I've never caught a Bass or fished the Bow river.

But I suspect I spend more time afield then most, and eat more wild game things then most. That too is a result to some extent, of having lived a life on a blue collar salary.

What I am saying is that I hunt the way I do because it's what I can afford. Not because I have anything against any other way of hunting.

Everyone has to start somewhere. I for one am glad there is technology to help new hunters learn the ways of the hunt.
I just hope that they too will learn the benefits of old school ways and knowledge.
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