How do you all feel about P&Y

Bonescreek · #1 10-05-2016, 06:23 PM

Saw a post in the hunting section asking how B&C affects AB or CA for that matter.

What say you about Pope & Young ?

Gun · #2 10-08-2016, 02:04 PM

I think it served it's purpose a long time ago. That was to show that a Bow and Arrow are a viable hunting tool.

But it has caused the industry to turn on its head IMO. I was a measurer for over 30 yrs. I measured 10 critters for every one I entered. Now its all about me, looky what I got.

Even the founder Glenn St. Charles regretted the monster it has turned in to.

As a further example, our own Alberta Bowhunters Association has an awards program. We have a hard time to get enough members to come to the meetings for a quorum. But at the awards after Dinner the place is packed! Go figure.

Oh sure I enter stuff into the ABA awards when I'm fortunate enough to qualify but its more to show that it can be done with Trad gear if you know how to hunt and not just good with a MA (mechanical weapon) weapon.
Ok rant over.

Birchcraft · #3 10-09-2016, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gun

As a further example, our own Alberta Bowhunters Association has an awards program. We have a hard time to get enough members to come to the meetings for a quorum. But at the awards after Dinner the place is packed! Go figure.

I was planning joining the ABC with hopes of being an active member but I simply could not after I learned their stance against against the half a dozen or so of guys that might actually go out to attempt a spear hunt.

Gun · #4 10-09-2016, 01:31 PM

News to me and I'm one of the directors. Last I saw we were just hoping it would go away. I don't think we endorsed banning it but I'll check.

Birchcraft · #5 10-09-2016, 02:25 PM

Gun you are correct, the statement I read about 1-2 years ago on the website did not mention a ban as far as I can remember but it was against allowing them during the archery season. It is my opinion that "archery season" is just a name for what is essentially (or should be) a primitive weapons season and should not be taken literal to mean archery only. After all the purpose of the archery season is to address the shortcomings of archery equipment compared to modern weapons, shortcomings that are shared by all primitive weapons including spears.

Gun · #6 10-10-2016, 09:16 AM

I contacted Brent Watson our President. We have no position on spears/atlatls and whatever other "weapons".

Funny that people think that archery equipment and muzzleloaders are "primitive" these days. Just look at any Bowhunting (including this one) site and see what shot distances are taken at game.

I don't want to drag this out in a public forum and we digress from the original post.

I do invite you to come to our AGM and see what we are really about.

Bonescreek · #7 10-10-2016, 09:33 AM

I had no intentions what so ever to stir anything up, simply havn't heard
anyone talking about P&Y in quite a few years and was curious about your
opinions.

Pls. keep things orderly, thanks.

Full Curl Earl · #8 10-10-2016, 12:05 PM

I don't see anything wrong with celebrating and being proud when your fortunate enough to harvest a big old critter. A bunch of like minded hunters taking jabs at each other about who will get the biggest deer over a whiskey has been happening for a very very long time, and it all fun. Its part of a long standing tradition.

58thecat · #9 10-10-2016, 02:19 PM

Same thing, gives me something to read and hope a gagger walks by.

Bonescreek · #10 10-10-2016, 05:42 PM

:-)

GSPhunter · #11 10-10-2016, 11:38 PM

I find it interesting, I lost all interest in it a few year's ago in Australia. Too many bloke's these days just hunt for score and fame. We have a different system. Australia and nz use the Douglas score. Its a rolling top 50, so whenever a new record gets in it bumps everything below it down so number 50 gets knocked out.
I was fortunate enough to take a stag that'd sit inside the top 10 but I've got no interest in having him scored and to my local taxidermists horror, who's also a scorer I refused to enter him into the books.
Hunting should be about hunting and to me its a bit disrespectful to measure a deer in inches.

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KegRiver · #12 10-11-2016, 01:00 AM

They were nice guys.

58thecat · #13 10-11-2016, 06:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GSPhunter

I find it interesting, I lost all interest in it a few year's ago in Australia. Too many bloke's these days just hunt for score and fame. We have a different system. Australia and nz use the Douglas score. Its a rolling top 50, so whenever a new record gets in it bumps everything below it down so number 50 gets knocked out.
I was fortunate enough to take a stag that'd sit inside the top 10 but I've got no interest in having him scored and to my local taxidermists horror, who's also a scorer I refused to enter him into the books.
Hunting should be about hunting and to me its a bit disrespectful to measure a deer in inches.

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Hmmm disrespectful? I have to disagree it is a way for outdoors/hunters to have a goal etc what makes it disrespectful is when people step outside the laws to gain these bragging rights but that is going to happen in all sports/activities.
The pictures just simply amaze me at the size of some of these animals taken could only imagine if a potential world record walked by my stand, like to say I would be steady as a rock!

KegRiver · #14 10-11-2016, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GSPhunter

I find it interesting, I lost all interest in it a few year's ago in Australia. Too many bloke's these days just hunt for score and fame. We have a different system. Australia and nz use the Douglas score. Its a rolling top 50, so whenever a new record gets in it bumps everything below it down so number 50 gets knocked out.
I was fortunate enough to take a stag that'd sit inside the top 10 but I've got no interest in having him scored and to my local taxidermists horror, who's also a scorer I refused to enter him into the books.
Hunting should be about hunting and to me its a bit disrespectful to measure a deer in inches.

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I wouldn't say disrespectful, although the way it is now in north America, it does seem to be.

I just find the whole thing a bit ridiculous. Like little boys comparing the size of their equipment at recess time.

There is no doubt in my mind that a lot of antlers off larger Bucks and Bulls have never been measured much less recorded in any book and for me that makes the whole thing a bit dishonest.

It's not the biggest rack ever taken, it's the biggest ever recorded in one particular book. Sorta like keeping score for one team only at a football game and then declaring that team the winner when the other team may have made more points.

Lefty-Canuck · #15 10-11-2016, 11:41 AM

I have shot P&Y animals, but never have entered any. I just accept there is a standardized scoring system that you can "measure" your animal with. I like the fun/slight competitive nature of the ABA Game Awards which uses P&Y scoring as the standard. Also it adds a nice segment to the annual meeting and banquet. The score is never why drives me to hunt it is just a bit of an added aspect after the fact more for serious it's to see what the animal scores. For he most part I choose to harvest mature animals and score can sometimes be a slight indicator of that.

LC

GSPhunter · #16 10-11-2016, 03:47 PM

I've just been around too many blokes and conversations where people are disappointed, will make fun of, or have no respect for deer unless they're some magic number (I literally know guy's that will throw away or not display heads unless they score X). I really dislike that the first question most hunters ask when they see a deer of mine is "whats it score?". Not all deer have the genetics or ability to be giants but that doesn't make them any less of a trophy in my books. People also seem to think that someone who takes a big deer must be a better hunter than the rest, if that's the case then you're only as good as the property you have access to. I think a lot of it is to do with social media, people seem to either want to be famous or feel the pressure to shoot big deer to prove they're good hunters. You look at years ago if someone wanted to get into hunting they'd go through someone they knew that hunted or join a hunting group and learn the ethics and true meaning of hunting. These days people just need to flick through a mag or see some stuff on Facebook and think " I want a big deer too! ".

Just to qualify my opinions are just that, not fact so I wouldn't get too offended if you disagree

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KegRiver · #17 10-11-2016, 11:46 PM

Agreed.

I am old school. I grew up hunting for food, literally. For us (growing up) it was a matter of survival.

I learned to hunt by tagging along with dad first, then with older relitives and then with neighbers and friends of the family. We all relied on wild meat to get us through. No one I knew hunted for the sake of taking a trophy.

A good many of the young hunters I know today did not have that experiance and in many cases no guidance when they got into hunting.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GSPhunter

I've just been around too many blokes and conversations where people are disappointed, will make fun of, or have no respect for deer unless they're some magic number (I literally know guy's that will throw away or not display heads unless they score X). I really dislike that the first question most hunters ask when they see a deer of mine is "whats it score?". Not all deer have the genetics or ability to be giants but that doesn't make them any less of a trophy in my books. People also seem to think that someone who takes a big deer must be a better hunter than the rest, if that's the case then you're only as good as the property you have access to. I think a lot of it is to do with social media, people seem to either want to be famous or feel the pressure to shoot big deer to prove they're good hunters. You look at years ago if someone wanted to get into hunting they'd go through someone they knew that hunted or join a hunting group and learn the ethics and true meaning of hunting. These days people just need to flick through a mag or see some stuff on Facebook and think " I want a big deer too! ".

Just to qualify my opinions are just that, not fact so I wouldn't get too offended if you disagree

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Garry G · #18 10-16-2016, 12:27 PM

A trophy to some is in the antler size.
Others in the meat it provides.
An animal taken with a bow where hunting is a hard go - again a trophy.
Just being there, with your bow is the greatest pleasure in my book.
Each to their own. I treasure every hour in the woods with my bow.
My only fear is that the big antlers not the hunt itself becomes the reason we hunt.
Garry

albertabighorn · #19 10-16-2016, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GSPhunter

I find it interesting, I lost all interest in it a few year's ago in Australia. Too many bloke's these days just hunt for score and fame. We have a different system. Australia and nz use the Douglas score. Its a rolling top 50, so whenever a new record gets in it bumps everything below it down so number 50 gets knocked out.
I was fortunate enough to take a stag that'd sit inside the top 10 but I've got no interest in having him scored and to my local taxidermists horror, who's also a scorer I refused to enter him into the books.
Hunting should be about hunting and to me its a bit disrespectful to measure a deer in inches.

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Pope & young for most involved and should be about fair chase hunting, and withholding those values. The scoring system should be secondary. In Australia was the fair chase part of the Douglas scoring system? TIA

MugEye · #20 10-16-2016, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GSPhunter

I've just been around too many blokes and conversations where people are disappointed, will make fun of, or have no respect for deer unless they're some magic number (I literally know guy's that will throw away or not display heads unless they score X). I really dislike that the first question most hunters ask when they see a deer of mine is "whats it score?". Not all deer have the genetics or ability to be giants but that doesn't make them any less of a trophy in my books. People also seem to think that someone who takes a big deer must be a better hunter than the rest, if that's the case then you're only as good as the property you have access to. I think a lot of it is to do with social media, people seem to either want to be famous or feel the pressure to shoot big deer to prove they're good hunters. You look at years ago if someone wanted to get into hunting they'd go through someone they knew that hunted or join a hunting group and learn the ethics and true meaning of hunting. These days people just need to flick through a mag or see some stuff on Facebook and think " I want a big deer too! ".

Just to qualify my opinions are just that, not fact so I wouldn't get too offended if you disagree

Sent from my ZTE BLADE A112 using Tapatalk

I to hate when asked ( what's it score ?) . In my town we have a score night , it's the Mean event for the outdoorsmen club . It make me sick . I would like to be a member of some kind of outdoor clubs but if their mentality is to be only worried about the scores I'm not interested .

ishootbambi · #21 10-16-2016, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MugEye

I to hate when asked ( what's it score ?) . In my town we have a score night , it's the Mean event for the outdoorsmen club . It make me sick . I would like to be a member of some kind of outdoor clubs but if their mentality is to be only worried about the scores I'm not interested .

I've never understood that mentality. I know lots of people that don't care about trophy antlers or scoring. I know lots more that care a lot about it. I've never understood why there is disdain between those feeling one way or the other. Meat hunters think trophy hunters are idiots. Trophy hunters think meat hunters are lesser men. Who the hell cares what the other guy does?

I had a friend tell me about hunting with another guy I know. The other guy liked a 161 whitetail. The first words out of his mouth were "Hell yeah, I've got Dale beat this year." When my friend told him that I had already texted him a pic of my whitetail and it was bigger the guy was sick. My friend said he didn't say it but it looked like he was thinking about abandoning it to try for a bigger one. I think that guy is a giant sphincter...but at that moment I wasn't angry and didn't gloat about my success... but rather I felt sorry for him. His only goal was to compete with someone else and his only measure of success involved another person. That's sad.

I can only speak for me, but I think if you are hunting for any reason other than your own enjoyment then you're missing the point. I don't care if your goal is meat, a trophy, or just to get away from the stress of every day life, enjoy your time for yourself. Too many people are so worried about what the other guy is doing. It doesn't make sense to me...but then a whole bunch of what people in this world do doesn't make sense either...

GSPhunter · #22 10-16-2016, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by albertabighorn

Pope & young for most involved and should be about fair chase hunting, and withholding those values. The scoring system should be secondary. In Australia was the fair chase part of the Douglas scoring system? TIA

In Australia or nz high fence stuff is scored SCI, which is why you always see those big fenced reds in nz scored SCI. To be Douglas certified it has to be free ranging and has to have grown it's head in the wild. The other part that made me lose interest in it though is that these days fair few guys release farm deer and then hunt them the following year which classes them as free range. A lot hunt farm fringes and shoot any big ones that escape.

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albertabighorn · #23 10-16-2016, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GSPhunter

In Australia or nz high fence stuff is scored SCI, which is why you always see those big fenced reds in nz scored SCI. To be Douglas certified it has to be free ranging and has to have grown it's head in the wild. The other part that made me lose interest in it though is that these days fair few guys release farm deer and then hunt them the following year which classes them as free range. A lot hunt farm fringes and shoot any big ones that escape.

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Yes I would have an issue with that aswell