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Old 04-28-2008, 08:49 PM
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Hilgy Hilgy is offline
 
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Default Arrow Rests

I thinking of changing rests but being as I have little time behind a bow I was looking for a little help from the masses.

I have been looking at all the wisker biscut type stuff and just finished reading some reviews about the Muzzy Zero Effect. Anybody use this type it looks like it might be the ticket but having never seen one I may be wrong.


Any help would be great and not sure if it matters but I'm shooting a Hoyt V-Tec.


Thanks Hilgy
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Old 04-28-2008, 09:02 PM
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Hilgy, get the wisker! I only have three seasons under my belt. My first was a skunker as every chance I got to draw, the arrow would fall off the stupid little plastic rest (loaner bow).

Got my own the following season and really fell in love with the wisker. At the time we weren't stand hunting, just working the wind on the ground. It sure made life easier to always have an arrow notched. I managed a mulie doe that year.

Last year I got my first buck and also a coyote! Fun stuff.

They do make a bit of noise though that the whitetails pick up on really fast. I'm planning on using mine for a couple more seasons to get some more experience under my belt before switching out to a fall-away style.

Anyway, as a newbie, the wisker allowed me to have some sucess where I may not have, which allowed a bit of confidence to creep in over the repeated frustrations. Good luck!

Tree
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Old 04-28-2008, 09:11 PM
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albertaboy74 albertaboy74 is offline
 
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I have the zero effect on my old champion, and loved it. On my new bow I am shooting a trophy taker drop away, I will be field testing it soon.
I am not a big fan of the wisker biscuit, You are losing some arrow speed and I think that it is a bit noisy when drawing back.

My 2 cents take it as you will.
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Old 04-28-2008, 09:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hilgy View Post
I thinking of changing rests but being as I have little time behind a bow I was looking for a little help from the masses.

I have been looking at all the wisker biscut type stuff and just finished reading some reviews about the Muzzy Zero Effect. Anybody use this type it looks like it might be the ticket but having never seen one I may be wrong.


Any help would be great and not sure if it matters but I'm shooting a Hoyt V-Tec.


Thanks Hilgy
Nothing wrong with Tree's advise.

Probably nothing wrong with anybody's advise. Who's going to buy a bad rest and glorify it? I had been given an NAP dropaway I didn't care for.

I've owned 4 MZE's. I like them obviously. I know how they work. I can set one up in minutes without the DVD lol. Hoyt Tec risers represented some problems for Muzzy. I told Hoyt owners to stay away from the MZE ....then they came out with an MZE just for Hoyt. Problem solved, I put one on my Hoyt RazorTec. I've had one on a BowTech BK2 a Champion Hurricane and a Mathews Outback (a special MZE for Mathews too). That's a bow I use for hunting.....Outback with MZE. Nothing wrong with an MZE at all, it's a good choice. I have always had 100% clearance with an MZE (proven with a fob).

Trophy Taker is another good design which has been copied by many companies. It rugged............the Shaky Hunter is the model for hunting.....your arrow won't fall of this rest. There isn't anything I don't like about it....................except it's one of those dropaways that has to be tied to your down cable.

Limb Driver, a new concept that uses deflection from the upper limb to raise the rest (instead of working off the cable guard or the down cable). It works very good. I use it on a BowTech Guardian. One thing I don't like about this rest is the arrow rest itself. They could have made it more substantial. I plan to hunt with this setup too.
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Old 04-28-2008, 09:56 PM
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I will agree with ehntr on this one. the trophy taker does have to be tied to your cable.
I will let you know what I think of it in the field, once I have tried it.

But in my opinion, with any drop away rest ( if you choose so ) use mole skin on your riser, to quiet it down while drawing back, because that is where your arrow is resting when it is not at full draw.

After you have been shooting for a while, you will know what works for you.

All the best and shoot straight.

BTW ehntr, I am ex-airforce, where were you posted

416 TFS in cold lake for me, 9 years worth.
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Old 04-28-2008, 10:43 PM
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Thanks for all the advise Guys.

Tree, thats the main reason I was looking at the biscuts is the fact that I could have an arrow notched.

The thing that I liked about the MZE was all the reports about tighter groups about better consistancy.

Hey Tree what kind of vanes do you shoot?? I am going to switch a few arrows over to the smaller blaser type to try and help my broad heads group better. Any isses with the biscuts and these type vanes???


Thanks for you help


Hilgy
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Old 04-28-2008, 11:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by albertaboy74 View Post
BTW ehntr, I am ex-airforce, where were you posted

416 TFS in cold lake for me, 9 years worth.
Transport - 426 (T) Sqn, 436 (T) Sqn and 435 (T&R) Sqn. Mostly Trenton and Winnipeg...T H I R T Y - F O U R G R E A T Y E A R S...now working with the Army (full time reserve)...hooah!
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Old 04-28-2008, 11:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hilgy View Post
Thanks for all the advise Guys.

Tree, thats the main reason I was looking at the biscuts is the fact that I could have an arrow notched.

The thing that I liked about the MZE was all the reports about tighter groups about better consistancy.

Hey Tree what kind of vanes do you shoot?? I am going to switch a few arrows over to the smaller blaser type to try and help my broad heads group better. Any isses with the biscuts and these type vanes???


Thanks for you help


Hilgy
Hilgy

I would look at APA rests they are containment rests and they are alot quieter that a bisquit and they are made in canada. they make a containment drop away and a containment fixed rest I would look at either of these
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Old 04-28-2008, 11:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hilgy View Post
Hey Tree what kind of vanes do you shoot?? I am going to switch a few arrows over to the smaller blaser type to try and help my broad heads group better. Any isses with the biscuts and these type vanes???

Hilgy
Hilgy, the vanes I use are the same ones that came with my arrows (Radial X Weave STL Hunter 200........carbons).

I have alot to learn about archery myself, and it's a bit of a struggle as I'm NOT a tech guy. I just take what I have and learn how to use it well. I can pretty much hit a beer can at 25-30 yards every time (EMPTY of course ). What else do I need? I could spend hundreds of dollars more to stretch those shots to 50 yards, but then I wouldn't be able to afford the full beer cans in order to empty one to shoot at!

I don't do 3Ds, I don't do target and I don't shoot my bow as much as I would like to. However, I KNOW my bow, and within a couple of sets, I'm dialed in. I just HUNT with it.

I am shooting a 60# draw. It shoots the arrows fast...........how fast? I have no idea..........never been but on a chrony and hopefully never will. I don't really care.

The wisker works for me as I have trouble sitting for any length of time and the stalking/creeping through the bush is more fun anyway! Although I haven't perfected it yet, I've been trying to shield the shaft of the arrow with a cotton ball while in the WB. Ya kindda have to work it in there, but it does quiet the draw down. Mind you, it's not that noisy if you time it right, and it's a hell of alot quieter then some dude trying to pull 80# and grunting!

I didn't get into archery for the 60-70 yard shots. I can do that with a bang stick. The point of the game is to get close. As they say, for the majority of hunters, 100 yards is a sealed deal, for bowhunter, the hunt has only just begun! THAT'S what it's all about for me!

Tree
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Old 04-29-2008, 07:09 AM
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if your a lefty give me a pm i have a whisker biscut you can HAVE its for aluminum arrows.
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Old 08-20-2008, 11:06 PM
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I have an APA safari twister.Dude,its alright but having trouble paper tuning bow with this rest.I shoot FMJ arrows 400 with quick spin fletching and it seems to always kick to the left.There is no spring tension adjustment either.Just spent 4 hrs at the range trying to stop the arrow from kicking,the only thing I got done was throwing everything out of wack and will be spending the weekend re-setting my sights etc. and living with the slight kick it has.
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Old 08-21-2008, 12:04 AM
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Just started shooting a QAD Ultra light pro.

Absolutely love this rest.
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Old 08-21-2008, 05:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by albertaboy74 View Post
I have the zero effect on my old champion, and loved it. On my new bow I am shooting a trophy taker drop away, I will be field testing it soon.
I am not a big fan of the wisker biscuit, You are losing some arrow speed and I think that it is a bit noisy when drawing back.

My 2 cents take it as you will.
Yeah, but the hole in it is great in case you run out of toilet paper while hunting!!
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Old 08-21-2008, 09:22 AM
Stinky Coyote Stinky Coyote is offline
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Hey Hilgy, if i was setting up a new bow right now it would be, of course, for hunting. That means it would still get a bisquit! If i wanted a target bow then i'd get a drop away.

I shoot a fairly tuned switchback xt 29.5" draw at 70lbs with cx300's/montecs/blazer vanes and its very accurate to 70 yrds on my deer target. I shoot off the string...because its 'hunting'....but i believe if i wanted to take the accuracy thing to the last mile and improve my 80-90 yrd consistancy on the deer target then i think i've taken my gear as far as it will go....next would be a drop away (trophy taker forsure) and probably go to a string loop to rule that out as i shoot off the string with an old original fletch hunter release, and i'm guessing that might get me better consistancy at 80 & 90 to which i'm pinned for practice.

The whisker bisquit and shooting off the string on short ata bows is still plenty quick and accurate enough for hunting (to 70 yrds probably) and imo the pro's are much greater for 'hunting'. I can get on the string quickly and without looking....and the biquit is another literal 'no brainer' when actually hunting....its ready to go all the time.

The tiny bit of noise on the draw is something i use to stop whitetails for the shot (even at 5 yrds or less right under me 12-15' down and no spooking...just stop for the shot).....along with the noise of my own movement making the draw....if the whitetails are really close (like within 20 yrds) thats usually enough noise to stop them for the shot....often i have to bleat them to stop if further out. So you make the call on that. I know an elk hunter who said the draw has to be ultra silent and he uses a trophy taker covered with the 'fuzzy stuff' and they are 100% quiet, i shot this combo the first year and its quiet but i'm lucky to have the whitey on the wall i do as i had to draw twice after having the arrow fall off to the side and screech between the riser and rest.....first time that happened of course.....the shakey hunter prongs would help....i had the original......when stuff like that happens you tend to go the extreme opposite in terms of bullet proofness....hence my love for the bisquit now. I haven't gone for elk so can't say...but i'd personally take my chances with the bisquit....even quiet clothes don't make body movement noise on the draw non-existant.

As far as practice goes....after starting into this about 6 yrs ago and shooting a ton in the first few years i've definitely got things way more streamlined now. Basically i figured out that all that group shooting isn't necessary anymore and typically throws my confidence to the gutter more often than it helps me so i quit that completely. Its not hard with today's gear to suss out bad arrows and get them out of the equation. I tune my bow with broadheads now, shoot only at broadhead targets (block style to get my pin gapping basically set, deer target for fine tuning and final practice leading up to the season opener), and i don't generally shoot more than a dozen arrows per session.

So this is what works for me now and i spend WAY less time doing it as i just don't have the kind of time i had a few short years ago.

Its way easier to be conistant if your putting a pin on the kill zone of a deer target. You want that 1st arrow to go there on your very first shot....COLD! Just like a real hunting situation. I've found that when you know the gear is tuned, the pins are gapped etc., you start on the deer at closer ranges and when you kill it every single time with your first shot then you move another 10 yrds out and thats where you start with your first shot on all the next sessions....when you kill it everytime then you keep going. For me i'm so reliable from inside 50 yrds that i don't start with that first shot until the buck target is at 50 yrds away. Why chew up your target on gimme shots for no reason? (like i said, the more you shoot the more you overthink and fatigue and compound them and your confidence takes a nose dive) When you train like that your pushing yourself further and further in practice....then when in hunting situations and the deer is much closer it becomes a slam dunk, you'll have a much further effective range and you'll have spent way less time doing all this.

I'm very consistant at 50-70 now but my 80 and 90 yrd pins not yet and i'm wondering if this is where my accuracy (group size potential etc.) is limited with my current gear? Could simply be my ability, could be gear, could be both. I will still get a few more sessions in, my first shot next session will be 80 yrds as my first session thats where i wasn't connecting where i wanted, still hitting the deer just wrong spots....my 70 yrd was good. But the 80 yrd shots were the end of a nine shot session and so i can't trust that....start to overthink things at this point. If my first shot at 80 goes kill zone i know i have the pin set and i simply shot too much before trying to go that far.

Sorry for the rambling. Just trying to help out hunters with what works for me....may not work for you but i love it. I dropped string once last year at 55 and hit my muley buck perfect. Picked up the bow for 1st time since a couple weeks ago, waxed the string, set out with my buck to see if i was still all good. Took 1st shot at 20 just to be sure, next shot at 50 and it was within a couple inches of the 20 yrd shot all over the heart area (which is generally where i tend to aim), then went out to 70 and sent two...both hit exactly the same height in the spine, i made one adjustment to the pin and sent another, it felt good when i shot and i can't see the arrows in the target from that far so up with the bino's and it was perfect. I could see my 60 yrd pin wasn't gapped properly, eyeballed it into position and shot from 60 and it was in there too.....then out to 80 and hit him high in the throat. Next 2 at 80 was brisket and high in the neck again so thats when i hung the bow up for the day and no more changes. Will start from 80 with that cold first shot and see where its at at the BEGINNING of the session....as obviously i'm not happy with my 80 yrd pin yet....but it doesn't bother me as I KNOW i probably took too many shots by that point and was overthinking things. If you took my 20 yr, 50 yrd, 60 yrd and 70 yrd(after the adjustment of the pin) you'd have a nice group in the kill zone on that buck....80 is where it went to crap and just happened to be the last of the shots.

Its so much easier settling a pin behind the shoulder on a deer target than trying to wiggle that pin around on a dot on a previous perfect first two shots hoping to keep that great group going strong and then blowing it because you overthought it. Took me a few years to figure out that type of practice wasn't helping me for hunting situations at all.

I had to laugh the other day i was watching that hunting canada and beyond show(the sask. boys?) and he was late season blind hunting whitetails over bait and had a beauty heavy whitetail there......super cold.....and he goes to draw on it with his drop away and something broke....no gun, hunt over....he ended up killing a small buck at the end of the week with a big gun......ooops.

To change the topic a bit but point out the same thing (simple=reliable=hunting friendly) the same outfit had a killer muley buck with massive browtines all lined up and the shooter drops his detach quiver off at the fenceline he just crawled through to complete his stalk. So he's 30 yrds from his arrows, takes his shot and blows it, then the buck is standing only a few yards away from where he first jumped waiting for buddy to shoot at him again....i started laughing my ass off at this point. Never do that and to ensure you never do you get the quiver that attaches directly to your bow.....so what if its a bit of a hassle at the truck to load/unload your quiver to get the bow in the case all the time.....YOUR AT THE TRUCK when doing this.....not in the field when it matters.

In bowhunting you have enough blasted variables....so you want the gear as simple and bombproof as possible. Those guys eventually killed that buck on the third try on the third day they got on him but most people don't have the luxury of just dogging the same deer until you get him. So thats two super no-no's i watched from the same show.....i know its okay to laugh at them as like i said....they live (and do for a living) where they can mess up and its no big deal as the next day they can go get on the same deer. Good entertainment for a guy like me at least.

Go for simple is my long winded vote Hilgy. Good luck with your decision. The bisquit is proven in the field where it counts.

Last edited by Stinky Coyote; 08-21-2008 at 09:38 AM.
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Old 08-21-2008, 10:41 AM
Hunter Trav Hunter Trav is offline
 
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If your fairly new to bowhunting, get the bisket. Shoot it for a year or more, then when your comfortable, go to the drop away. Drop away's have alot more tuning issues than a bisket, and could be overwhelming for someone who isn't familiar with the whole tuning thing. As far as fletching goes, its whatever suits you best. I use a biskit on my bow, and I have tried the blazers, but didn't notice enough of a difference between them and a regular 4", although I was having issues with the blazers not sticking to the shaft very well, so I never tested them at longer ranges. I can tell you that the NAP quick spins are not that great to use with a biskit, as the little kicker on the back of the vane creates alot of drag through the wiskers. I found that my arrows with the QS would drop about 2-3" more @ 40yrds, than a regular 4" vane. Technically, the blazer vanes should be better cause they are shorter, therefore less drag. I'll be testing them more once I get my bow back from Jim Bows. I can tell you that biskits are hard on flecthings, but putting an extra dab of glue on the front and back makes a big difference. Also, having your own fletching jig to fix your arrows is definately worth looking into. I recomend the E-Z Fletching Jig, it made by Arizona Rim Country, usually costs about $60.
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Old 08-21-2008, 01:29 PM
Stinky Coyote Stinky Coyote is offline
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blazers are tough little fletches, thats what i shoot through the bisquit, yes a little harder to get to stick well to the shafts but most guys in the business should know how by now as they are very popular now, definitely dab of glue at the leading edge of any fletches when using this rest...i don't feel i've lost enough with my set up to notice....going by memory on my last chrony session i was doing 295 fps with 360 grains
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Old 08-21-2008, 01:54 PM
bowman077 bowman077 is offline
 
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I have had many old fashion prong rests, WB, Trophy ridge drop aways, ripcord and QAD ultrarest drop aways. My opinion on them is if I could start all over again I would go directly to the capture type drop aways and more specifically the QAD ultrarest.

As for tuning, there is no difference really as you still need to go through the same basic process (Paper and / or walk back tuning or what ever you usually use.). Setup may vary (None are that difficult) but tuning is tuning. And the capture type drop aways prevent your arrow from falling off just like the WB.

And as for noise on the draw, ideally you don't want the deer to be on alert because they can and often have jumped the string causing missed or poor placement of the shot. The only time you want to make any noise is to stop the animal if it is walking and by then you should be at full draw and mouth grunt to get him to stop in a shooting lane.
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Old 08-21-2008, 04:37 PM
Stinky Coyote Stinky Coyote is offline
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And as for noise on the draw, ideally you don't want the deer to be on alert because they can and often have jumped the string causing missed or poor placement of the shot. The only time you want to make any noise is to stop the animal if it is walking and by then you should be at full draw and mouth grunt to get him to stop in a shooting lane.
grunting at them will put them at alert too, i find they are more alert with mouth grunts/bleats than when they stop to try and figure out what that little bit of muffled sound was from my movement drawing the bow etc. but often times i draw when i want them to stop and if they don't then i go ahead and give them the 'wah', that happens lots, i just start to draw when i'm ready to shoot, not too often do i get caught drawing too early and then having to wait it out...
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