RCMP move to ban semi-automatic rifles

[raab]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

And if you are gullible enough to believe that an AR-15 can be easily converted to fully automatic, then you are the kind of person that the Liberal/RCMP propaganda is targeting.

Id like to know what they would consider easily modified for sure. Is it just taking out a pin or is it rebuilding the whole action?

[dmcbride]

Originally Posted by raab

Depends on the gun, if there are semi autos that can easily be made fully automatic with simple modifications, and you can get high round magazine for. I think we absolutely have to look at those rifles.

Why? What harm have they done to Canadians?

[raab]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

And if you are gullible enough to believe that an AR-15 can be easily converted to fully automatic, with a simple modification, then you are the kind of person that the Liberal/RCMP propaganda is targeting. If their propaganda results in enough gullible people believing their nonsense, then it won't be long before the Liberals/RCMP are able to disarm all Canadian civilians.

Good luck with that, won't happen. There are a few Liberals out there with guns, they'd be idiots if they tried. Would never govern again IMO.

[Bergerboy]

Originally Posted by raab

Depends on the gun, if there are semi autos that can easily be made fully automatic with simple modifications, and you can get high round magazine for. I think we absolutely have to look at those rifles.

Can you find an instance in real life where a fully automatic firearm was used in a crime in Canada?

[5Lgreenback]

Originally Posted by raab

Depends on the gun, if there are semi autos that can easily be made fully automatic with simple modifications, and you can get high round magazine for. I think we absolutely have to look at those rifles.

Such as? Perhaps likely the most popular rifle in Canada, A ruger 10/22? I'm getting pretty tired of seeing such guns in the media being used in fully automatic mode, its must be chaos out there, I mean, this guns only been around for decades now.

We should put an end to this inevitable anarchy before it starts right?

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by raab

Good luck with that, won't happen. There are a few Liberals out there with guns, they'd be idiots if they tried. Would never govern again IMO.

How many Australians do you suppose said just that? They start by targeting a few semi autos, them they go after the rest of the semi autos, then they go after lever actions and pump actions. Eventually they go after the remaining firearms. It takes time, but if they do this in steps, it greatly reduces the opposition from the public.

[bat119]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

I don't know where you are getting your info t

I went on shooting Australia forum because all I heard here in Canada was speculation and rumors I wanted to hear more the guys affected.
They are not banning lever action rifles only the lever action shotgun someone started selling to circumvent the ban on pump and semi shotguns.
You might need to log on to read this

shootingaustralia.net/forum/australian-gun-laws/15555-canadian-firearm-laws?start=20

I printed the jest of the thread here

Well bat119, by now you probably have a fairly good idea regarding the nuts & bolts of our gunlaws here however I will add one or two things seeing as you expressed interest/concern as to how Australia's gunlaws could be applied in the Canadian context. As you probably know, after a growing campaign by the anti-gun campaigners over the preceding decade a shooting event occurred in 1996 that acted as the catalyst for the Federal Government to seize the moment and seek to introduce draconian gunlaws, however one important obstacle stood in their way.

Gunlaws in this country are (and always have been) the responsibility of the individual States & Territories in the federation and as such the Federal Government could not simply take over and dictate to the entire country on the matter, and thus the NFA (National firearms Agreement) was born. Essentially, the Federal government produced a piece of firearms legislation and then got each individual State and Territory to sign off on it (using coercion, bribes and eventually outright threats to ensure that everyone complied) and agree to alter their State-based firearms legislation to reflect the core pillars of the NFA (universal licencing and compulsory registration of all firearms, categorisation of firearms into individual classes ie A/B/C/D/H/R, universal safe-storage requirements including recording the physical storage location of each & every firearm, genuine-reason requirement for each licence class, etc).

Once this new NFA system was in place the Federal Government was then able to proceed with their "buyback" since many firearm owners could no longer comply with either basic licencing/storage requirements or could not qualify for any of the "genuine-reasons" now required to possess many commonly-owned types of firearms such as pump/semi-auto shotguns and semi-auto rimfire & centrefire rifles. The reason of course why the voluntary "buy-back" scheme (with it's fairly generous remuneration rates being paid) was even required was because longarm registration prior to the NFA was either limited or even non-existent in many States and thus the authorities had no mechanism in place (ie: universal firearm registries and up-to-date records of firearm storage locations) that they could use to force compliance and enact confiscations in cases where people refused to voluntarily hand-in their newly-illegal firearms.

There is currently talk here of new restrictions coming in as the result of a review of the NFA which could see certain types of firearms and/or magazine capacities currently classified as A/B being moved up to the more restricted categories and accompanying discussion amongst shooters about whether the powers-that-be will even bother with a generous "buyback" scheme this time, owing to the fact that these firearms are now all registered and their owners & storage locations known, enabling simple and rapid confiscation to occur. In other words, compliance with new bans and restrictions can now be forced upon shooters whilst back in the day it needed to be coerced from them; big difference.

I know nothing of either the existing Canadian gunlaws nor the system & organisation of government over there so have no opinion myself on how enacting Australian-type gunlaws would translate to the Canadian situation, however I would suggest that the first thing your new liberal government would need to do to even have a chance at replicating anything we have here would be to re-introduce the longarms registry which the former conservative government there wisely disbanded. Any new talk of re-establishing a longarms registry over there should immediately start alarm-bells ringing amongst the shooting community as it could be an ominous sign of things to come and believe me, you DO NOT want to go down the same route that we have here.

[Talking moose]

Originally Posted by raab

Depends on the gun, if there are semi autos that can easily be made fully automatic with simple modifications, and you can get high round magazine for. I think we absolutely have to look at those rifles.

we shouldn't of posted this thread in general section...^

[Rage.0]

my thoughts on this subject

images.jpg

[raab]

Originally Posted by Bergerboy

Can you find an instance in real life where a fully automatic firearm was used in a crime in Canada?

I believe the Mayerthorpe incident involved a fully auto weapon. It was a prohibited firearm for sure. The shooter in the ecole Polytechnique shooting in Quebec used a mini 14 with a high capacity magazine. I'm sure theres tons out there if we went and looked.

[Got Juice?]

Originally Posted by raab

Id like to know what they would consider easily modified for sure. Is it just taking out a pin or is it rebuilding the whole action?

Modifications vary by rifle and the trigger they have installed.

Easily modified? If you are a machinist, possibly. For an average joe with hand tools, you will wreck more guns, than you will successfully convert.

[hogie]

Originally Posted by raab

I believe the Mayerthorpe incident involved a fully auto weapon. It was a prohibited firearm for sure. The shooter in the ecole Polytechnique shooting in Quebec used a mini 14 with a high capacity magazine. I'm sure theres tons out there if we went and looked.

One guy did this because he hated women. Not because he had a high cap mag. He also had a hunting knife with him.

Other guy a known criminal who hated the police. Had a firearms ban.

Problem with these types of violence is that all the focus is put on guns. We don't focus on any other type of violence unless it involves guns. Someone kills 5 people with a knife that's OK.

This is the start of banning guns . Wait until the start going after scary military calibers. 303, 3006, 308.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by raab

I believe the Mayerthorpe incident involved a fully auto weapon. It was a prohibited firearm for sure. The shooter in the ecole Polytechnique shooting in Quebec used a mini 14 with a high capacity magazine. I'm sure theres tons out there if we went and looked.

Full auto and high capacity mags are both illegal to own. I guess what you're saying is that criminals aren't going to follow the laws, right?

[elkhunter11]

I believe the Mayerthorpe incident involved a fully auto weapon.

The firearm used was semi automatic H&K 91.

The shooter in the ecole Polytechnique shooting in Quebec used a mini 14 with a high capacity magazine.

Once again it was semi automatic.

I'm sure theres tons out there if we went and looked.

Then it should be easy to find some examples to back up your assumption. We are waiting patiently for you to produce some examples of a fully automatic firearms being used in a crime in Canada.

[coreya3212]

Originally Posted by raab

I believe the Mayerthorpe incident involved a fully auto weapon. It was a prohibited firearm for sure. The shooter in the ecole Polytechnique shooting in Quebec used a mini 14 with a high capacity magazine. I'm sure theres tons out there if we went and looked.

Weren't full auto rifles illegal when the mayerthorpe tragedy occurred...maybe we need to double ban them.....


Guys, raab is a liberal, he voted for Trudeau and obviously supports his decisions. You are going to get no where arguing with him..

Edit...I see elk hunter has corrected for the liberal misinformation. Thanks 11.

[purgatory.sv]

Originally Posted by raab

Sounds like they're looking at only taking a few semi autos off the market. I'll reserve judgement until something actually happens.

You don’t seem to acknowledge that responsible persons already follow the law, and all proposed or old laws affect us, not a criminal act.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by coreya3212

Weren't full auto rifles illegal when the mayerthorpe tragedy occurred...maybe we need to double ban them.....


Guys, raab is a liberal, he voted for Trudeau and obviously supports his decisions. You are going to get no where arguing with him..

Edit...I see elk hunter has corrected for the liberal misinformation. Thanks 11.

He is trying hard to support the Liberal propaganda, but he is failing miserably, because there is no credible data to support their propaganda.

[bukwild]

I believe the Mayerthorpe firearm was a malfunctioning (bump firing) H&K 91, not a fully automatic firearm. Whether or not it was "modified" to bump fire I do not know.

[bobtodrick]

Okay...this is how stupid the feds can be on this.
Oct 24, 2011 the RCMP banned the FX18HB b.b. gun (then sold in Canada) because it was made to look like an AK and used actual parts from the Norinco Type 56.
It was a .177 cal b.b. gun (got that).
But...according to the RCMP a good gunsmith could take one of these guns, swap out the barrel, swap out the b.b. loading system and the spring powerplant and replace them with the parts to make a function AK.
The Feds checked all the retailers that sold the guns (there were only a couple down east), obtained their sales records and went after all the owners (not many in fact).
Someone did a cost analysis. A competent gunsmith would have charged a $1000 to do the conversion.
Yeah...a bad buy is going to pay $1000 to convert a b.b. gun instead of buying a black market AK from the US for what...200 bucks.
IT WAS A B.B GUN FOR GODS SAKE!!!

[bat119]

Originally Posted by Bergerboy

Can you find an instance in real life where a fully automatic firearm was used in a crime in Canada?

Dennis Lorte's assault of the Quebec house of assembly he used two submachine guns he stole from a military base.

[JustMe]

Big deal, what good will having the semi be if it's banned? You can'y take it out in public to use it or you'll face confiscation and subsequent penalty if seen? Makes them pretty much worthless....

Originally Posted by ArtG

Even if the RCMP demand for the PAL record of everyone who bought a semi-automatic gun that really means nothing. The gun could have been gifted or sold privately and there is no way of tracking that. My first gun was a gift from the in-laws.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by bat119

Dennis Lorte's assault of the Quebec house of assembly he used two submachine guns he stole from a military base.

I guess the disclaimer should be fully automatic, or converted to fully automatic civilian firearms, since those are the firearms that the Liberals/RCMP are targeting.

Unless of course we are going to prohibit the Canadian military, and all Canadian police forces from possessing fully automatic or semi automatic firearms, in order to keep them from being stolen.

Actually, if we buy into the Liberal/RCMP propaganda, we would do just that. If there are no semi automatic or fully automatic firearms allowed in Canada by anyone, then there is no possibility of them being used in crimes in Canada.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by bat119

Dennis Lorte's assault of the Quebec house of assembly he used two submachine guns he stole from a military base.

Right; the guy used two weapons that are already banned for civilian use .
What difference would that make in banning semi auto civilian weapons?
Cat

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by raab

Good luck with that, won't happen. There are a few Liberals out there with guns, they'd be idiots if they tried. Would never govern again IMO.

Allan Rock basically made a pile of guns illegal and made all sorts of stupid laws by order in council .
Read some of his quotes if you don't think he had an agenda
Cat

[BuckCuller]

Originally Posted by raab

I believe the Mayerthorpe incident involved a fully auto weapon. It was a prohibited firearm for sure. The shooter in the ecole Polytechnique shooting in Quebec used a mini 14 with a high capacity magazine. I'm sure theres tons out there if we went and looked.

I guess this is just a case of two law abiding citizens that had in possession two fire arms that took it upon themselves to break the law.

What in your reasoning makes you possibly think these firearms could not have been used in the same crime if they were banned?
Do you honestly think that banning semi auto firearms would make criminals obey the gun laws when thier initial intent is to break the law with a firearm in the first place?

The Polytechnique shooter already had it in his mind he was going to die, so I don't think he would have gave a darn if his mini 14 was Prohibited.

Oh by the way if the punishments for crimes were a lot tougher Mayerthorpe would have not happened.

Head shake.

[^v^Tinda wolf^v^]

Hello everyone !

I'm a new member here and enjoy reading all the great information and fun things people are up to.

This subject made me become a member of the forum because more people need to stand up on this troubling issue that involves all firearm owners.

I have had my pal for a while now and was under the assumption that when the RCMP issue a person a licence to own firearms that they trust you to use them in a safe and lawful manor.

What this all boils down to is trust and from everything I've encountered and learned there is absolutely no trust on the RCMP behalf and last night was a prime example of no trust to me and I will explain what I mean shortly.

It is quite evident that Alberta is going through some tough times in which theft and crime are going up and everyone is getting concerned especially the RCMP and for a good reason. I myself am also quite concerned about having my firearms stolen and I've gone as far as putting off my families short holidays that we enjoy going on so I don't worry about my firearms.

My friends safes are plumb full so I'm left with little option but to leave them in my very secure gun safe that can be opened easily with the proper equipment. I think it would be nice to have a public place that deals strictly in firearms storage that was affordable for the average person who wants to take off for a while.

Anyways, to me this possible gun grab boils down to the government and RCMP not doing their due diligence in the screening processes and if any changes that should be made this is the only one I see to be fair and feasible.

During the election the liberal party of Canada was constantly talking about fear and division and I think it will be rather interesting to see how they respond to the RCMP request to ban semi autos because this is fear and division at it's very best.

As a responsible firearms owner I go above and beyond my legal obligation in reguards to proper storage and transportation of my firearms. That means when I transport the guns are trigger locked and my ammo is in a locked container and out of view even if someone has a peek in my window.

Last night I went to a friends in the country to do some target practice. On my way back into the city I decided to stop at my lucky gas station to check some old lotto tickets and of coarse I didn't win. I pulled in right in front so i could clearly see my vehicle becuase i had a rifle with me and went as far to avoid a purchase so i could get back out to my truck quikly. Upon leaving the building a truck was parked next to mine so closely I almost couldn't get in.

The passenger of this vehicle rolled his window down and said don't worry I called the driver an ***hole for you, I laughed and squeezed into my truck. The two gentleman in this unmarked vehicle were RCMP officers and I know that because I pay attention to the local news in my community.

As I drove away I was thinking to my self, what just happened here ? I know both of these people are RCMP. I honestly think they figured I was going to knock off this gas station! and parked that close to deter an escape. This type of situation really concerned me and I actually felt like criminal for a moment and I didn't even do anything.

I do tend to make some noise at the range but that is normal for discharging arms. So I guess what I'm getting at here is if the RCMP are concerned about little old me a law biding firearms owner, there are greater issues at play here and they don't even trust the people they issue licences to.

I own a couple semi autos and have no reason to put up a fuss if they want to take them so long as I get reasonable compensation for them. I don't like it but would have no option and if it comes to that the liberal party of Canada are being hypocrites by their own theories on fear and division.

It is the government and RCMP that need to handle how they legislate firearms better and to me that is not taking them away from people like me or us.

What to do ? It's quite the conundrum.

[elkhunter11]

Oh by the way if the punishments for crimes were a lot tougher Mayerthorpe would have not happened.

If something/someone other than the gunman was to blame for the Mayerthorpe incident, it was not the firearm, it was the RCMP, since they were well aware of the risk the gunman presented to the public, yet they let him run free.

[Matt L.]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

If something/someone other than the gunman was to blame for the Mayerthorpe incident, it was not the firearm, it was the RCMP, since they were well aware of the risk the gunman presented to the public, yet they let him run free.

The courts weren't exactly helpful either.

[IR_mike]

Originally Posted by raab

Depends on the gun, if there are semi autos that can easily be made fully automatic with simple modifications, and you can get high round magazine for. I think we absolutely have to look at those rifles.

Because crimes committed with automatic weapons are so prevalent and common?

[pintailslammer]

Originally Posted by Kim473

Registry is gone but do you really think that all the information it had was distroyed ? I don't think so.

x2


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