Lethbridge Range closure - Page 2

GeoTrekr · #31 02-11-2012, 09:38 PM

I wouldn't be surprised if the complaint that got the ball rolling again was something like this:

Gotta hate it when bullets hit your house - brass 'n all...

Lefty-Canuck · #32 02-11-2012, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeoTrekr

I wouldn't be surprised if the complaint that got the ball rolling again was something like this:

Gotta hate it when bullets hit your house - brass 'n all...

WOW....those Iraqi folks have all the toys.....reusable bullets??? I want some of those....

LC

gitrdun · #33 02-11-2012, 10:20 PM

LFGA is one of the nicest ranges that I'get had the pleasure of shooting at. I hope that it survives yet another needless assault.

twofifty · #34 02-11-2012, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pudelpointer

Really? Wow, I don't remember the city coughing up any money for the safety improvements to the range. They sure have made a lot of money allowing development at the top of the hill though.
.....

It's what I was told by a range officer.

rccam1 · #35 02-12-2012, 05:48 AM

I see nothing on the Herald's web page about the closure this morning, although the paper has not come yet. Why is there no info from the City to the public if there is a safety issue. I guess it's a case of the counsil making sure that we understand that they are looking out for our best interest as THEY see it! Is there a police investigation? Is it that Fluffy got scared from a loud bang? Is it that guns are bad? People who use guns are bad? Someone taking advantage of the good weather dug up some old bullet while tending their garden? Answers please.

NewAlbertan · #36 02-12-2012, 06:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rccam1

I see nothing on the Herald's web page about the closure this morning, although the paper has not come yet. Why is there no info from the City to the public if there is a safety issue. I guess it's a case of the counsil making sure that we understand that they are looking out for our best interest as THEY see it! Is there a police investigation? Is it that Fluffy got scared from a loud bang? Is it that guns are bad? People who use guns are bad? Someone taking advantage of the good weather dug up some old bullet while tending their garden? Answers please.

I find this aspect particularly disturbing. If there is / was a new safety risk, then why not tell the public? To me, council taking such action before releasing any information or report smacks of political risk, not public risk. Public risk is always best reduced through spreading information. Political risk is usually tried to be reduced by controlling information

I'd like to encourage everyone to write to council and ask them why they act without sharing information with their bosses, the taxpayers?

M70 · #37 02-12-2012, 06:47 AM

There are some pretty nice views of the river valley from the top of the coulee but you'd think that the city wouldn't be short minded enough to allow housing development up there. Even if they closed the range, I wonder how viable land would be if it's sitting on an old sanitary landfill.

Like Dick284 had mentioned earlier, the cost of cleaning up decades of spent lead is going to be substantial. Even so, I guess the process of finding a new location might be the inevitable solution. In the mean time, I'd like to know what caused the closure this time.

crawfy · #38 02-12-2012, 01:14 PM

You would have thought that if there where a big concern or saftey risk that the CITY PLANNER would have not allowed the building of residential homes above the range. I think the city would have had to do a safety risk analysis in regards to the range and proximity of residential homes. I can see a bunch of more red tape that our range will have to jump through and the city will just keep adding more expenses to our members till it becomes to much of a burden to be a member at our fine facility.

Pudelpointer · #39 02-12-2012, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twofifty

It's what I was told by a range officer.

We have >600 range officers: 1/2 day course that does not discuss the finances of our club or range.

We lease the range property from the City of Lethbridge. All operation and construction costs have been paid for by members of the range and through grants from the province and other organizations.

I am sure the city gave some grant money to the range in he early days, but all the recent (since the 2006 closure) improvements were completed without any help at all from the city. If it wasnt for some supportive and helpful city employees the dimwits on council would have shut us down years ago.

We may have to get very political and very vocal, very soon.

Everyone, whether you are a LFGA member or not, please go tithe LFGA website and sign up for email updates. We will likely need to show a significant presence at City Hall meetings very soon. There is a meeting at the LFGA clubhouse (10th Ave South at 7:00pm on the 23rd of February.

rccam1 · #40 02-12-2012, 04:26 PM

According to a City Council member who was kind enough to answer an email I sent to all Council members. Indicated that they have not been briefed on the situation yet and will not be until thier next meeting on the Feb 21. So who's making these decisions.

Ryry4 · #41 02-12-2012, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rccam1

According to a City Council member who was kind enough to answer an email I sent to all Council members. Indicated that they have not been briefed on the situation yet and will not be until thier next meeting on the Feb 21. So who's making these decisions.

Sounds like the gun hating mayor of Lethbridge. Tarlick has been looking for a reason to shut the range down for six years and both times he thought he had us it backfired on him. Now he's just going to do it by regardless. In my opinion he's no friend to hunters, shooters or gun owners in general.

Does anyone know how many years are left on the lease anyway and if we can legally fight this?

Hawkeye · #42 02-12-2012, 07:20 PM

The mayor is now Rajko Dodic (spelling may not be correct, but it's close).
For the record, he is a lawyer.

GOPHERSPLAT · #43 02-12-2012, 07:28 PM

Think the lease is till 2036.

Ryry4 · #44 02-12-2012, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

The mayor is now Rajko Dodic (spelling may not be correct, but it's close).
For the record, he is a lawyer.

Right, I forgot Tarlick didn't run for re-election. Either way I doubt Dodic is a fan of the shooting sports.

Is there any reporters on here that could get some of what is going on in the papers or on the evening news and actually report our side of things? It would be nice to have our side out in the open.

Ryry4 · #45 02-12-2012, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GOPHERSPLAT

Think the lease is till 2036.

That's what I thought. I wonder how many loop holes or clauses there are for the city to get out of it.

Pudelpointer · #46 02-12-2012, 08:28 PM

Ryry, getting the media involved at this point may not help, since it doesn't seem that anyone really knows what is going on. I am heavily involved with LFGA and I can't even get any details.

Also, our local media are the ones who flamed the fire with the last incident (breaking the window out of the van and putting he toddler in the van so it looked like the children of Lethbridge were in grievous danger). Let's find out what is going on, then we can position ourselves with the media.

The thing that I find very concerning is the fact we have scheduled an "open meeting" to discuss the closure. Last time we just worked on getting the facts out there for the LRPS and City Council. There was no "special meeting".

Pudelpointer · #47 02-12-2012, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryry4

That's what I thought. I wonder how many loop holes or clauses there are for the city to get out of it.

The city has complete control over the operation of the range - they say close it, and it is closed. Council stated in 2006 that if a single projectile left the range again, then it would be shut down permanently.

Ryry4 · #48 02-12-2012, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pudelpointer

Ryry, getting the media involved at this point may not help, since it doesn't seem that anyone really knows what is going on. I am heavily involved with LFGA and I can't even get any details.

Also, our local media are the ones who flamed the fire with the last incident (breaking the window out of the van and putting he toddler in the van so it looked like the children of Lethbridge were in grievous danger). Let's find out what is going on, then we can position ourselves with the media.

The thing that I find very concerning is the fact we have scheduled an "open meeting" to discuss the closure. Last time we just worked on getting the facts out there for the LRPS and City Council. There was no "special meeting".

Your probably right. Just burns me that they are doing this again. I guess we'll have to wait and see what they've got up their sleeve.

rccam1 · #49 02-13-2012, 04:28 AM

Here is a portion of an email from the one councillor that did reply. I have also sent Mr. Sherwin email asking for clarification on why the range was closed as it will be difficult to bring my concerns forth not knowing this info. So if he does not reply I guess he will not be interested in knowing anyone else's concerns but the anti's to take to council.

Please note that City Council will not be briefed on this issue until Feb 21st, which is the next time we meet.

In the meantime, if you have operational concerns or would like to provide the City Manager with additional information for his council brief, I would strongly urge you to contact him, cc'ing Council on your statements. Mr Sherwin can be reached at Garth.Sherwin@lethbridge.ca.

geezer55 · #50 02-13-2012, 08:07 AM

Quote:

The city has complete control over the operation of the range - they say close it, and it is closed. Council stated in 2006 that if a single projectile left the range again, then it would be shut down

Here is the e-mail from Jeffrey Coffman that I got in response to the e-mail that I sent him. Ae for my proximity to the range I can see the fence that encloses the range from my deck, been looking at it for 23 years now, no worries about my safety or noise.

Thank you very much for your email and for taking the time to contact City Council on this matter.

City Council did not make the decision to temporarily close the range. This was an administrative decision based - I am assuming - on concerns / complaints expressed by a neighbourhood proximate to the range.

Please note that City Council will not be briefed on this issue until Feb 21st, which is the next time we meet.

In the meantime, if you have operational concerns or would like to provide the City Manager with additional information for his council brief, I would strongly urge you to contact him, cc'ing Council on your statements. Mr Sherwin can be reached at Garth.Sherwin@lethbridge.ca.

Thank you again for contacting me.

Regards,

Jeffrey Coffman,
Lethbridge City Council

pwdrbrn · #51 02-13-2012, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by winger7mm

Stray bullets again. Im sure its BS. Im glad that I spent good money to use the range only to be denied access. Im sure that the people that complain are the same ones that call 911 on me and my fishing partners while we ice fish the local lakes because they feel the ice is unsafe. But all and all who knows whats going to happen. Would be nice for a resident in the outskirts along the river to donate some land (hint hint) lol. But regardless some people make me shake my head, the range was fine, no chance of strays (unless done by lrps) the people that use the range are mostly all range officers and are super respectful of all the rules involved. Yet again the stray probably came from some yahoo's north of the range. happened before with the van incident, they didnt catch anyone so why would it not happen again??

New to the assoc./range/sport in general. Having said that, here is my two cents worth.(might be over priced) "IF" we get around this closure, how long until the next one? We need numbers for representation? Let's put some more numbers "up on the board". The fine folks of Mcgrath have a slightly more relaxed and obviously underfunded range in Spring Coulee. Could we not look at banding together with them. Perhaps approach our esteemed representatives in Prov./Fed. Gov't for whatever assistance they might be able to provide ($$$$$/land). Bigger,better,onward and upward. Some place equidistant between Lethbridge and Mcgrath would be ideal. Out of sight, out of mind. "They" don't bother us, and we don't bother "them". All replies gratefully acknowledged.

pwdrbrn · #52 02-13-2012, 11:22 AM

Please don't get me wrong. Not suggesting LFGA should relax our attitude when it comes to firearm safety!!!!

Pudelpointer · #53 02-13-2012, 12:35 PM

Pwdrbrn, the plan is to build a new range in a spot that will remain viable for a very long time, to be ready when our lease runs out in 2035.

We have started a building fund; that is why range fees went up $20 this year. If we keep this level of funding until 2035 it will only be $480,000 towards the new range. Doubtful we could even buy the land required for that at today's prices!

Unless we have a windfall (provincial / federal grant for 1/2 million) or a very generous benefactor (any landowners out there who feel the shooting sports are an integral part of our identity as Canadians/Albertans?), it will take us at least a decade to make this happen. Maybe if our city council was actually supportive, we might have a chance.

On a side note: does anyone KNOW if the Magrath range is approved as a pistol/restricted range?

geezer55 · #54 02-13-2012, 01:05 PM

E-mail to me from mayor of Lethbridge concerning range closure.

Dear Mr. ,

My office has received a number e-mails regarding the LFGA Range.

Recently (approximately a week ago), City Administration received information that a number of stray bullets have ended up in residential areas on the Northside.

My information is that once this information became known, there was discussion with LFGA Range officials and a temporary closure was warranted to allow additional investigation.

The purpose of additional investigation is to determine, among other things, whether “stray” bullets originated from the Range or elsewhere.

No decision has been made regarding on-going closure, but safety concerns for City residents dictate that City Council receives as much information as possible on the issue. We expect to receive that information by Tuesday, February 21, 2012, at which time it will be discussed.

I appreciate that LFGA Range members may strongly believe that any “stray” bullets did not originate from the Range, but our duty as Council is to receive as much information as possible before coming to a conclusion.

As you can appreciate, safety is the driving factor in any decision and you can rest assured that no conclusion has been reached at this point. I do acknowledge that the Range has made admirable efforts to make it as safe as possible, but I would ask that everyone be patient to allow City Council to do their “due diligence” in terms of obtaining full and complete information.

Thank you.

Yours truly,

Rajko Dodic, B.A., LL.B.

Mayor

Pudelpointer · #55 02-13-2012, 01:28 PM

Thanks for posting that Geezer.

While the mayor's letter does not provide us with much detail, at least it confirms what I had heard "third hand".

This happened in 2010 and it turned out the bullet was not from our range, and again last year - same result (not many know about that last incident) however, I am concerned that we already have a meeting planned for the 23rd. Hopefully it won't be needed.

rccam1 · #56 02-13-2012, 01:48 PM

I received the same email. What concerns me is who is doing the investigation. Are the police experts involved. Are impartial investigators involved. Is the LFGA involved or is it the City workers who probably have no experiance with ballistics and so on making the call. This is what we need to know now.

pwdrbrn · #57 02-13-2012, 02:35 PM

Magrath IS approved for restricted/pistol use. Just got off the phone with the very nice people at Magrath Home Hardware. Membership is $30.00/year. No guest passes required if you are bringing a buddy/child etc. I would personally suggest that you take a four wheel drive in anything but the driest summer weather. Almost didn't make it out of there two weeks ago in my pick up. Please be courteous when driving through the colony. If you visit, you will see what I mean by "under funded". No offense intended to the folks who run it.

Pudelpointer · #58 02-13-2012, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rccam1

What concerns me is who is doing the investigation.

Should be LRPS. Unfortunately, the last time the police attended a call where a bullet had hit a house on the north side, they basically shrugge3d their shoulders and said "it probably came from the LFGA range" - luckily the city employee who got the report said "wait a minute! Guesses are not good enough. We need to KNOW it came from the range." [Of course, it wasn't from the range - damn laws of physics!!!] He knew the consequences of a half-a**ed effort on the part of the police.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pwdrbrn

Magrath IS approved for restricted/pistol use. Just got off the phone with the very nice people at Magrath Home Hardware. Membership is $30.00/year. No guest passes required if you are bringing a buddy/child etc.
Please be courteous when driving through the colony. If you visit, you will see what I mean by "under funded". No offense intended to the folks who run it.

I know the range, just wasn't sure if it was approved as a pistol range or not. To tell the truth, I am surprised that it is approved (NOT saying it shouldn't be). Pretty much just a gravel pit.

As for the "no guest pass required", how does that work? I can see it for children, as Lethbridge is the same, but for adults? Pretty sure there is no insurance coverage for people who are not range members (every range I have ever belonged to worked that way). If it doesn't matter, then why would anyone become a range member?

I would guess that they just don't have day passes. You must be a range member to use the facility.... er, pit.

pwdrbrn · #59 02-13-2012, 04:00 PM

Excellent point on the insurance. Have to say I did not think to ask about it. As for "Why become a member?" Probably the same reason you became a member of the LFGA. Legality, support of the sport/range and its other members, safe/approved place to pursue your hobby....etc. I would say that to use the Magrath range with a clear conscience, it would be best to purchase a membership. That is my intent. Guest two weeks ago---member next time I am rolling past Magrath.

Pudelpointer · #60 02-13-2012, 05:08 PM

We had an interesting situation at the LFGA range:

When we were forced to gate the property in 2006, are membership tripled (450 to over 1200). It seems there are a lot of people out there quite willing to take advantage of an open gate. In fact there are still a lot of people who bring others along who do not have a day pass.