Evolution vs Creation

[Big Thumper]

Originally Posted by raab

I would agree that they're all bears with different micro evolutionary changes. I guess when I say Macroevolution I should not be saying species, but organisms.

This is what I don't agree with:

"Macroevolution refers to major evolutionary changes over time, the origin of new types of organisms from previously existing, but different, ancestral types."

So basically you take a dog and turn it into a fish.... Nothing like that has ever been seen or done that I know of.

I think you've pretty much discredited yourself with your cat-lizard post.

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by Big Thumper

The easiest for you to understand would be the chronological order of fossils found in rock strata. Very accurate and always in correct order when strata are intact. (like at the Grand Canyon)

And what about fossils that extend through more than one layer?

[alta270]

Originally Posted by Unregistered user

No mention of dinosaurs in the bible. it only goes as far back as a talking snake, hmmmm.

Yeah, but the talking donkey beat Shrek by about 2100 years. I wonder what language that braying beast enunciated himself in?

[silverdoctor]

Originally Posted by raab

Because everyone has a different opinion. Let it be noted the bible does not say the earth was created 6000 years ago, but that man has added it up and came to that conclusion through the genealogy.

Maybe Creationists need to get together, have a talk and figure it all out. This is more confusing than I ever expected.

Growing up Catholic, we were taught the earth was created in 6 days - then God rested on the 7th. None of this 1000 years per day and yada yada yada.

Now, so called scientists want to take creation back to the big bang, give ownership of all human discoveries to God. Imagine why so many are so confused when creation is all over the map.

I'm still trying to figure out how a bunch of ignorant men - that squished, banned, and tortured and killed scientists back in the day for heresy - can create this mess we have today? It's no wonder why so many are leaving the church - and turning to evolution. I suspect if this poll was done 100 years ago, 95% plus would believe in creation.


I'm going to start big banging my head against the wall.

[EZM]

Originally Posted by Newview01

You are insinuating I agree with all creationists. I believe in a young earth.

No, that wasn't my insinuation, simply because creationists are all over the map of this vast timeline spanning anywhere from 6000 years ago up to 6 billion years - and, logically, you can't agree with every creationist groups perspective on this.

I am curious though - when you say you believe in a young earth, how many years old do you think the earth is?

[silverdoctor]

Originally Posted by EZM

6 billion years

13.7 billion years actually EZM - they want to take it back to the singularity.


If Weber shows us that the universe is older - I'm sure creation will be adjusted accordingly.

[Big Thumper]

Originally Posted by Newview01

And what about fossils that extend through more than one layer?

please clarify this? Do you mean fossils that appear in several strata before disappearing?

This is really interesting science and its really what we do here in AB with index fossils etc when we are looking for oil.

[sjemac]

Originally Posted by Big Thumper

please clarify this? Do you mean fossils that appear in several strata before disappearing?

This is really interesting science and its really what we do here in AB with index fossils etc when we are looking for oil.

God put them there so we could find oil. He is always watching out for us.

[EZM]

Originally Posted by Newview01

And what about fossils that extend through more than one layer?

I assume this is a serious question - so I will try and provide a serious answer (to the best of my understanding).

It means these fossilised organisms lived for a period distending beyond several layers of rock. The dinosaurs, (many species over three distinct periods) for example, can be seen through hundreds of feet of varying layers.

Some fossils begin and end within a layer or two, while others distend into dozens or more layers, with each organism potentially overlapping other organisms and overlapping layers.

Most fossils do have a beginning (an appearance) and an end (in some cases an extinction).

It is also where you can see small adaptations take place over the layers (and time) as organisms evolve.

This is a clear evidence of the premise of evolution in simple organisms.

Quite simple if graphically illustrated.

[Whiskey]

A creationist friend of mine told me God put the dinosaur bones there to make us ask questions and raise doubt. I honestly can't understand what some people think... And I was born and raised a catholic, in a catholic school.

Here is the funny thing.... life could have been put here(earth) by something else. Who's to say that some species didn't seed thousands of planets with life half a billion years ago(could be a blink of an eye to some species, time is a matter of perception). We could just be some experiment. "God" could certainly exist but would be more of a scientist then a deity.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by Big Thumper

Would you agree that there are three species of bears in Canada? All sharing similar traits but three distinct species.

Some say two and two sub, some say three, some say four, some say more.

Black, Grizzly, Polar.

Black, Grizzly, Polar and Brown Bear.

Black, Grizzly, Brown Bear and Kermode

Some argue that Grizzly are a subspecies of Brown Bear, some that Kermode are a subspeices of Black bears.

Most agree that there are only two speices and two subspecies.

Black and Polar, ----- Grizzly and Kermode

Science can't seem to agree on something as simple as what species some bears are. How then are we to believe that science has ALL the answers about how millions of species came to be.

[Bushrat]

Originally Posted by covey ridge

I can understand what you are feeling. The only thing I would say to that is it is not only about feeling or even mostly about feeling. Giving your life over to Christ is not about getting something warm and fuzzy back. If that is what you want hug a kitten or a teddy bear. Turning your life over to Christ may start by learning about Christ and then doing the things that Christ might do when faced with an opportunity or a crisis or caring about the things Christ cared about. If you do some of the things that Christ cared about you may realize that Christ cares about you.

I am too far off topic here so I will not say more.

I know its not about the warm fuzzies, but after being indoctrinated, studying and attending thousands of church services and functions one would think I should at least have gotten a feeling that God and Christ exist. At an early age I sensed something was off with the whole religion thing. The more I learned the more I became convinced that if there were a creator, that creator had little to do with the bible we know today.

My opinion is the bible has evolved into a bastardized chronicle of anecdotal stories tailored to suit the need of various powers that be at the time, edited and evolving over time to address social change subject to the gov't, church or religious organizations current agendas over various epochs and eras. Various religions and gov'ts have used bibles and religion as constitutional aid and code of laws ever since the idea of religion was first conceived. Not saying we didn't have a creator, I just don't think the Bible is a credible account of creation if in fact we were created.

[purgatory.sv]

Originally Posted by Bushrat

I know its not about the warm fuzzies, but after being indoctrinated, studying and attending thousands of church services and functions one would think I should at least have gotten a feeling that God and Christ exist. At an early age I sensed something was off with the whole religion thing. The more I learned the more I became convinced that if there were a creator, that creator had little to do with the bible we know today.

My opinion is the bible has evolved into a bastardized chronicle of anecdotal stories tailored to suit the need of various powers that be at the time, edited and evolving over time to address social change subject to the church or religious organizations current agendas over various epochs and eras. Various religions and gov'ts have used bibles and religion as constitutional aid and code of laws ever since the idea of religion was first conceived. Not saying we didn't have a creator, I just don't think the Bible is a credible account of creation if in fact we were created.

see you at the evergreen temple?

[Big Thumper]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

Some say two and two sub, some say three, some say four, some say more.

Black, Grizzly, Polar.

Black, Grizzly, Polar and Brown Bear.

Black, Grizzly, Brown Bear and Kermode

Some argue that Grizzly are a subspecies of Brown Bear, some that Kermode are a subspeices of Black bears.

Most agree that there are only two speices and two subspecies.

Black and Polar, ----- Grizzly and Kermode

Science can't seem to agree on something as simple as what species some bears are. How then are we to believe that science has ALL the answers about how millions of species came to be.

Where did you read that?
There are three recognized species currently alive in the wild in Canada today by biologists .

[Bushrat]

Originally Posted by purgatory.sv

see you at the evergreen temple?

Yes Thursday.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by silverdoctor

Maybe Creationists need to get together, have a talk and figure it all out. This is more confusing than I ever expected.

You are kidding aren't you!

When in the history of mankind has any two people ever agreed on anything!!


Of course I'm kidding, but the sad fact is, there will never be agreement between the opposing sides, on this subject.

One side is afraid that there might be a God and need to deny that possibility, the other side is afraid there might be no God so must find any means to support his existance.

In the middle are those who believe that there can be creation and evolution working together and those who realize that none of this matters in the end.

What is, is and arguing about it will not change what is.

[alacringa]

Originally Posted by Big Thumper

Where did you read that?
There are three recognized species currently alive in the wild in Canada today by biologists .

Exactly. I have hesitated to comment on this thread so far...but the lack of basic knowledge on this forum (not only about bears -- in many other fields as well) is extremely disturbing. Learn the basics before you start arguing about things, guysl

[purgatory.sv]

Originally Posted by Bushrat

Yes Thursday.

Can't go ,all know it's no longer a secret.
About 2.59 after sunrise.
All will be revealed.

[raab]

Some great points made by Dr. Stephen Meyer on the Evolution vs ID debate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbcY9iya40o

Darwinians DNA will be your downfall...

[Big Thumper]

Originally Posted by raab

Some great points made by Dr. Stephen Meyer on the Evolution vs ID debate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbcY9iya40o

Darwinians DNA will be your downfall...

Not hard to tell he does not have a biology background!

[sjemac]

Originally Posted by raab

Some great points made by Dr. Stephen Meyer on the Evolution vs ID debate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbcY9iya40o

Darwinians DNA will be your downfall...

Lol. DNA has been the best thing for evolution science ever! It answered a lot of questions and confirmed a lot of theories and opened many new lines of inquiry.

[raab]

Originally Posted by sjemac

Lol. DNA has been the best thing for evolution science ever! It answered a lot of questions and confirmed a lot of theories and opened many new lines of inquiry.

Did you watch the video...

[sjemac]

Originally Posted by raab

Did you watch the video...

Yes. And he either doesn't understand DNA and mutations or (more likely) he is being deliberately misleading.

[Big Thumper]

Originally Posted by raab

Did you watch the video...

I have it on listening here while I work. I'm assuming you are using this clown's video to show how a totally unqualified person, working at this 'discovery institute' , using pseudo science can sound like somewhat like a scientist to the uneducated.
Its actually quite funny and must be a real embarrassment to the 'Discovery Institute' much like his first book Signature in the Cell

[Big Thumper]

Well, at least he did visit the Burgess shale here in Canada. ( not sure if that is what qualifies him to write and talk on such subjects?)

[sjemac]

Originally Posted by Big Thumper

Well, at least he did visit the Burgess shale here in Canada. ( not sure if that is what qualifies him to write and talk on such subjects?)

The PhD in the history of science certainly has to qualify him for…… Something. Maybe like a degree in drama teaching qualifies someone else for…… Something

[Big Thumper]

Originally Posted by sjemac

The PhD in the history of science certainly has to qualify him for…… Something. Maybe like a degree in drama teaching qualifies someone else for…… Something

Yeah, not sure. Really funny thing is he actually uses the Burgess shale to back up his false claims about the 'Cambrian Explosion'. Of course, anybody who had done any research or even read the tourist pamphlet would know that the Burgess shale is middle Cambrian, millions and millions of years after the Cambrian Explosion. Embarrassing stuff , really.

[sjemac]

Originally Posted by Big Thumper

Yeah, not sure. Really funny thing is he actually uses the Burgess shale to back up his false claims about the 'Cambrian Explosion'. Of course, anybody who had done any research or even read the tourist pamphlet would know that the Burgess shale is middle Cambrian, millions and millions of years after the Cambrian Explosion. Embarrassing stuff , really.

I think the thing that truly scares me about this debate and holistic medicine and naturopaths and and and... is that charlatans are co-opting the terminology and language of the scientific method to try to endow their superstitions and snake oil with legitimacy. While they talk of science, they aren't actually doing it.

The end result is a fear and distrust of the scientific method. On the light end, people avoid MSG for no reason at all. On the dark end, smallpox comes back because morons won't vaccinate their kids --- but that's another thread – – often beaten to death.

[Big Thumper]

Originally Posted by sjemac

I think the thing that truly scares me about this debate and holistic medicine and naturopaths and and and... is that charlatans are co-opting the terminology and language of the scientific method to try to endow their superstitions and snake oil with legitimacy. While they talk of science, they aren't actually doing it.

The end result is a fear and distrust of the scientific method. On the light end, people avoid MSG for no reason at all. On the dark end, smallpox comes back because morons won't vaccinate their kids --- but that's another thread – – often beaten to death.

There must be good money in misleading the uneducated. Seems to be a few of them making a living at it.

[JD848]

I know there is billions if not trillions of stars and planets,if you think there there for the heck of it fine,i would like to know who put them there.

Not a matter of a billion years or what ever how did this all come to be and who can say I am right or wrong,plus I have no answer to it all,but I just don't think a monkey made this whole deal and made such a vast universe ,some higher power or intelligence made this happen,what who and how did this is the 99 dollar question and answer,most guys don't know how the camera is put into there cell phones and what is hid under the sahara desert,but yet can tell you when this and that became to be,the FBI worked liked crazy to figure out how to reboot an iphone to get info out of it,but then there's wacko's that know who think they know when it all began.

These same guys don't know where the sidewalk ends and the road begins,so go figure,this topic can go on longer than my computer or yours will last,all I know for sure is that if you look straight down and not move your looking at the center of the planet,same thing if your sitting on the toilet ,the water turns clock wise and below the equator it turns counter clockwise,but it's still the center if you focus hard enough.