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  #31  
Old 02-20-2016, 08:28 PM
traderal traderal is offline
 
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I'm soooo scared I'm crawling under the blankies and not getting up till breakfast. And I worked with environMental scientists for 37 years.
  #32  
Old 02-20-2016, 08:37 PM
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Oh dear. Do I trust scientists who have been caught red handed skewing data in the past. Uh no. Are taxes going to fix it? Uh, no.
  #33  
Old 02-20-2016, 08:39 PM
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Omg. And Antarctica is doing fine. Just fine. Growing ice since 1970.

You know what that means.

Scary. Very scary. So much ice that it is killing penguins.
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  #34  
Old 02-20-2016, 08:44 PM
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I blame OHV's.
  #35  
Old 02-20-2016, 09:50 PM
Peter Gill Peter Gill is offline
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NOAA Jan 2016 LOT percentile shows no such trend.
https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/servi...ntp/201601.gif

I find it more than a little puzzling that GISS LOTI shows the warmest trend in an area for which they have the least (and sometime no) data. GISS masks sea surface temperature data at the poles, anywhere seasonal sea ice has existed, and they extend land surface temperature data out over the oceans in those locations, regardless of whether or not sea surface temperature observations for the polar oceans are available that month.
Also have to wonder how they determined low-atmosphere temperature in the N pole area without satellite or balloon data?
  #36  
Old 02-20-2016, 10:19 PM
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All i know is this el' niner is some hard on skis
  #37  
Old 02-20-2016, 10:19 PM
Klondike Klondike is offline
 
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Default The Club of Rome and beyond: How the socialist religion of environmentalism was born

The entire world needed the new paradigm of environmentalism. The problem is that a few grabbed it for a political agenda.

They used it as a vehicle to take the moral high ground, to claim only they cared about the environment. They argue that everyone else was guilty of environmental destruction because of their avarice and wasteful ways.

Environmentalism as a political agenda is pushed by extremely wealthy and powerful left wing people who made their money exploiting the environment. The psychology of that is beyond the realm of this discussion, but consider the hypocrisy of George Soros, Maurice Strong, Bill Gates, the Rockefeller’s, Leonardo DiCaprio, Ted Turner among many others. The confusion is similar to surrounding another person who most people think was a right wing fascist, but was in fact a socialist promoting environmentalism, Adolf Hitler. (Nazi stands for "National Socialism.")

Collectively, most of these environmentalists people acted through their privileged group called the Club of Rome. The founding meeting of the Club occurred in 1968 at David Rockefeller’s estate in Bellagio, Italy. In their 1994 book "The First Global Revolution," they declared:

“The common enemy of humanity is man. In searching for a new enemy to unite us, we came up with the idea that pollution, the threat of global warming, water shortages, famine and the like would fit the bill. All these dangers are caused by human intervention, and it is only through changed attitudes and behavior that they can be overcome. The real enemy then, is humanity itself."

They claim the list of enemies is designed to unite people. In fact, it is needed to overcome what they see as the divisiveness of nation-states and to justify the establishment of one-world government or global socialism. Global warming is a global problem, they insist, that national governments alone cannot resolve.

They finally settled on global warming as the environmental issue best suited for their goal. Of course, the plan is just the beginning. One of my favorite cartoons from "The New Yorker" showed Moses on the mountain with the Ten Commandments. The caption read “Great idea, who is going to fund it?” Global warming and the identification of human produced CO2 as the problem suited all the political, financial, and religious controls, a socialist group desire.

The Kyoto Protocol was presented as a solution to the problem of human-caused global warming. Those who created the Protocol also created the problem. Through the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) they produced the science required to support their claim. It is a well-thought out, well-planned, classic circular argument. Create the problem, create the proof of the problem -- then offer the solution.

They said, incorrectly, that a CO2 increase causes temperature increase. They provided proof. They programmed their computer models so that a CO2 increase caused a temperature increase. They ran the model(s) while keeping all else steady, what in science is called "ceteris paribus." Naturally, the model results showed a temperature increase, which they then claimed proved their thesis.

CO2 through Kyoto provided the religious basis for the socialist agenda. Nations who developed their economies and became wealthy using CO2 were now supposed to pay for their sins by giving money to those nations who suffered. It was a penance. In the medieval Catholic Church, you could buy indulgences to bypass the punishment of hell. Carbon credits are the modern equivalent, and Al Gore was the equivalent of The Pardoner selling indulgences, depicted in Chaucer’s Canterbury Tales.

CO2 through Kyoto provided the political basis for the socialist agenda: the redistribution of wealth with money taken from the successful developed nations and given to the less successful developing nations. This operation required one-world government and a world banking agency.

CO2 through Kyoto provided the financial basis for the socialist agenda. Money needed to fund the socialist government was to come in the form of a global carbon tax. The November 2009 Conference of the Parties 15 (COP15) in Copenhagen, involved finalizing details of the Kyoto Protocol, including a carbon tax gathered by the International Monetary Fund.

Somebody knew the political agenda was based on the false science and leaked emails from the Climatic Research Unit (CRU) as evidence. The major scientists controlling the IPCC worked at the CRU. The disclosure effectively delayed the political process because the COP can only act on the science provided by the IPCC. The delay was only temporary because most didn’t understand the science or know the implications of the leaked emails.

In 2010 at COP16 in Durban they produced the replacement socialist program called the Green Climate Fund (GCF). COP21 in Paris in December 2015 authorized the process.

Vaclav Klaus, former President of the Czech Republic, was the only world leader to identify what was going on. I heard speak at the Heartland Climate Conference in New York in 2004. His opening comment was that the world went through 70 years of communism, so why the hell would you want to go back to it?

He made his case effectively in his book "Blue Planet in Green Shackles" where he wrote:

“It should be clear by now to everyone that activist environmentalism (or environmental activism) is becoming a general ideology about humans, about their freedom, about the relationship between the individual and the state, and about the manipulation of people under the guise of a “noble” idea. It is not an honest pursuit of “sustainable development,” a matter of elementary environmental protection, or search for rational mechanisms design to achieve a healthy environment. Yet things do occur that make you shake your head remind yourself that you live neither is Joseph Stalin’s Communist era, you’re in the Orwellian utopia of 1984.”

http://www.therebel.media/the_club_o...alism_was_born
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Who are you going to blame when all the ohv's are gone and the fish are still dieing
  #38  
Old 02-20-2016, 10:34 PM
Peter Gill Peter Gill is offline
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NOAA/NESDIS sea surface temperature anomaly Feb 18, 2016:
http://www.ospo.noaa.gov/data/sst/an....2.18.2016.gif

Note the white areas in the Arctic indicating no data, the same area where the OP claims there is record warmth.
  #39  
Old 02-20-2016, 10:45 PM
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Well played Mr. Gill.......well played
  #40  
Old 02-20-2016, 11:42 PM
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Where is the OP now? I'm hoping for his/her take on the latest developments to this thread.
  #41  
Old 02-21-2016, 12:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newview01 View Post
While there is likely some truth in the articles, my question to you is do you believe everything you read and hear?
Not at all, especially if they are from opinion sites or advocacy sites.

My links were not.

The Washington Post is as reputable as any MSM can be, and the other link is the data itself.
  #42  
Old 02-21-2016, 12:24 AM
avb3 avb3 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rugatika View Post
Pass the Thalidomide.

You're the one denying the science. Read Richard Lindzen's essay. http://euanmearns.com/global-warming...ce-of-science/

The damage believers are doing to science is going to take a very long time to repair.


Just curious. Is it "science" when you think anyone that doesn't believe the same theory as you should be thrown in prison? or accuse them of not following the science? One of the main tenets of science is to allow for questioning and testing of theories. Anyone that questions AGW is shouted down for it. That alone points to the lack of science in the false theory of AGW.
Do you understand what a scientific theory is? I'm not trying to be snarky, but if you don't, and are thinking in the vernacular, then you won't see the error in what you are saying.

Where are the studies that show the current science is wrong? If there were holes in the theory, the scientists who find and prove that whole would be famous. Your right, theories are subject to testing all the time. But they must be shown to be false, not just said to be.
  #43  
Old 02-21-2016, 12:30 AM
avb3 avb3 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Gill View Post
NOAA/NESDIS sea surface temperature anomaly Feb 18, 2016:
http://www.ospo.noaa.gov/data/sst/an....2.18.2016.gif

Note the white areas in the Arctic indicating no data, the same area where the OP claims there is record warmth.
You may want to take another look at your GIF. That is not at all what the white areas represent. It clearly states "white regions indicate sea-ice".

Nice try though.
  #44  
Old 02-21-2016, 12:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avb3 View Post
Just got to love how may deniers of science exist here on AO. Love you guys for all sorts of things, but how can you accept science in most areas of your lives, and yet the very thing that is staring you in the face, you are blind to.

You want wildlife management by science?

Check.

You want your planes to fly when you get in them safely, as determined by science?

Check.

You want your doctor to use the best available science when you go to him?

Check.

But when it comes to climate, science bashing abounds. It's an interesting phenomena, and not seen since the tobacco industry had produced all the FUD factors trying to discredit the science around bad effects on health.
Should tell you how grant money and govts and UN rubbing their their greedy little hand together, discredits climate science.

Does help when they cherry pick the data, the UN email scandal, the number of times they have had to revise their forecasts and rejigger the models.

Tells us, it motivated junk alarmist model games.....not science.

You really have all your eggs in this one basket....not a single doubt......hmmmm????.....that would point to blind adherence..
  #45  
Old 02-21-2016, 12:52 AM
Peter Gill Peter Gill is offline
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Quote:
You may want to take another look at your GIF. That is not at all what the white areas represent. It clearly states "white regions indicate sea-ice".
Nice try though.
Fail. If you'd bothered to research how NOAA/NESDIS treats areas of sea surface ice, you would know the comment was correct. There's much more to science than blogs and newspapers.
  #46  
Old 02-21-2016, 01:14 AM
HunterDave HunterDave is offline
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So do I buy ocean front property in Resolute Bay or not?
  #47  
Old 02-21-2016, 01:56 AM
drhu22 drhu22 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newview01 View Post
Where is the OP now?
He got shouted down by the peanut gallery.
  #48  
Old 02-21-2016, 03:22 AM
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Default ...annnnnd again...

...round and round we go...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Arctic Ice Report!.jpg (80.0 KB, 36 views)
  #49  
Old 02-21-2016, 07:48 AM
avb3 avb3 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackHeart View Post
Should tell you how grant money and govts and UN rubbing their their greedy little hand together, discredits climate science.

Does help when they cherry pick the data, the UN email scandal, the number of times they have had to revise their forecasts and rejigger the models.

Tells us, it motivated junk alarmist model games.....not science.

You really have all your eggs in this one basket....not a single doubt......hmmmm????.....that would point to blind adherence..
Show me the peer-reviewed and published science that shows that any of the papers spread over numerous different disciplines are wrong.

Lots of smoke, lots of mirrors, lots of denial, but no one has produced credible science that shows global warming is not occurring.
  #50  
Old 02-21-2016, 07:50 AM
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Quote:
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Fail. If you'd bothered to research how NOAA/NESDIS treats areas of sea surface ice, you would know the comment was correct. There's much more to science than blogs and newspapers.
Are you denying that the satellite data is incorrect? That data shows the spread of sea ice. You're trying to reference temperature anomalies. Please don't tell me you think it's the same thing.
  #51  
Old 02-21-2016, 07:59 AM
HighlandHeart HighlandHeart is offline
 
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Of course the planet is heating up. I wonder if it has anything to do with the sun? Can't find a way to tax the sun? Must be the CO2...
  #52  
Old 02-21-2016, 08:15 AM
husky hunter husky hunter is offline
 
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This is nothing that a huge carbon tax will not correct lol. Sorry to confuse things with facts but the highest temperatures ever recorded in western Canada was during the depression in the thirties. Would this be Socialist propaganda do you think?
  #53  
Old 02-21-2016, 08:59 AM
Klondike Klondike is offline
 
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https://youtu.be/RXE_pOalMTw

Hon. Vaclav Klaus ICCC2. Author or the book Blue Planet in Green Shackles
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at the end of the day Al Gore will go down in history as the biggest snake oil salesman to have walked the earth

Who are you going to blame when all the ohv's are gone and the fish are still dieing
  #54  
Old 02-21-2016, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clarki View Post
I ride my bike with no helmet... scary stuff
Lol! + more mosquito's. Nooooooo
  #55  
Old 02-21-2016, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Gill View Post
Fail. If you'd bothered to research how NOAA/NESDIS treats areas of sea surface ice, you would know the comment was correct. There's much more to science than blogs and newspapers.
Interesting. I am trying to understand this. It is like they are excluding surface temperatures over sea ice in their information.

Am I reading this correct?
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It is not the most intellectual of the species that survives; it is not the strongest that survives; but the species that survives is the one that is able best to adapt and adjust to the changing environment in which it finds itself. Charles Darwin
  #56  
Old 02-21-2016, 09:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avb3 View Post
Show me the peer-reviewed and published science that shows that any of the papers spread over numerous different disciplines are wrong.

Lots of smoke, lots of mirrors, lots of denial, but no one has produced credible science that shows global warming is not occurring.
Most scientists know we have been warming since the last ice age. What you are trying to promote is man is solely causing it to be dangerous.

You purport to speak to good sources...to boost your arguments however they are news sources. We know they all need to promote hysteria to make a buck.

So how about giving us 5 studies that you read that convince you dangerous man made global warming is real. Or put the question to rest by saying 100% of your info comes from blogs and media.

You are herein asking for others to provide you papers.

I recently gave some showing agree lands glacier melting has been significantly impacted by volcanic activity...as has Antarctica.

I also showed since 1970 Antarctica's ice has been growing and expanding. Recently so much ice that penguins are dying.

You did not jump in then...wondering why? No blog rebuttal found?

The scope of warmest ever...and record temperatures when defined over the past 100 or even 200 years hardly would make for a great argument in university when one is ignoring the past 1000 years and even 10,000 of evidence.

If you are looking for speculative studies...it seems like your side gets all the funding.

This is a religion now...not science.
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It is not the most intellectual of the species that survives; it is not the strongest that survives; but the species that survives is the one that is able best to adapt and adjust to the changing environment in which it finds itself. Charles Darwin
  #57  
Old 02-21-2016, 10:03 AM
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5 months from now, I predict it will be so warm out that I can walk around in a t-shirt!
  #58  
Old 02-21-2016, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talking moose View Post
5 months from now, I predict it will be so warm out that I can walk around in a t-shirt!
Nooooooo! You will surely catch on fire!!
  #59  
Old 02-21-2016, 10:17 AM
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I for one am a HUGE proponent of global warming. This winter has been fantastic!! I'd take 20 more just like them....

I let my truck idle now just in the hopes it makes a difference!
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  #60  
Old 02-21-2016, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don K View Post
I for one am a HUGE proponent of global warming. This winter has been fantastic!! I'd take 20 more just like them....

I let my truck idle now just in the hopes it makes a difference!
Me too. The combination of cheap gas and the idea of me contributing to warmer winters Spurs me on.
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