Winter Camping in a Tent: Tent Heater??

[lredman]

So, I am planning to escape this weekend on a two or three night camping excursion with a buddy; we will be sleeping in my MEC Tarn 3 tent.

Tent Pic:
http://www.mec.ca/AST/ShopMEC/Tents/...arn-3-tent.jsp

I have never camped in the winter before with a regular tent, only a wall tent once that had a wood stove inside (sooo nice).

My question is, what is the best, cheapest, most reliable tent heater out there? Are there even safe heaters that may be used inside a tent? Would I be wasting my money buying one that is around $80 or so form Princess Auto?

Heater from Princess Auto:
http://www.princessauto.com/pal/prod...e-Buddy-Heater

Thanks,

Rogue

[Albertadiver]

I have a Tarn 3, and I have a big buddy heater.

I would never combine the two. With such a small area inside the tent the C0 build-up will happen quickly and could be very dangerous.

My suggestion, is if you can add additional tarps over your tent, essentially make a tent within a tent that will help in retaining heat. Bring extra clothes / blankets and tough it out. The temps aren't all that bad right now.

I've used hot water bottles, and chemical heaters in the past.

[JerryK9]

I tent regularly in winter using a chinook tec tent http://ier-canada.blogspot.ca/2011/0...win-peaks.html i use a coleman blackcat catalytic heater http://www.coleman.com/product/2000004165 itll heat the tent up no problem at -20. these heaters are supposed to be safe for indoor use with proper ventalation but we keep a battery powered co detector in the tent just in case.

[Au revoir, Gopher]

Unless you are both 4'6" tall how could you possibly have room for a heater in a Tarn3? In cold temperatures it is moisture that is your enemy. Here is what I recommend:

1. have a footprint for the tent
2. have a closed cell foam pad
3. have a them-a-rest over the foam pad
4. have a sleeping bag that is good to the temperature you are expecting
5. have a liner for the sleeping bag
6. if possible, air your sleeping bag and liner during the day.
7. have dry clothes to sleep in (I keep a pair of heavy wool socks and silk base layer shirt. Long johns only if it is really cold)

ARG

[Tipperary]

One of the most important things is a proper mat below you. My brother and I camped out at Grande Cache when it dumped a foot of snow on us almost 2 weeks ago, we were sleeping in a summer tent with sleeping bags that were rated below -20 or so, with fleece liners. The only problem was the air mattress lost air so when we touched the ground it got cold, and when my sleeping bag touched the side of the tent my feet got cold. Otherwise it was fairly comfortable.

ARG's post summed it up nicely.

[lredman]

Originally Posted by JerryK9

I tent regularly in winter using a chinook tec tent http://ier-canada.blogspot.ca/2011/0...win-peaks.html i use a coleman blackcat catalytic heater http://www.coleman.com/product/2000004165 itll heat the tent up no problem at -20. these heaters are supposed to be safe for indoor use with proper ventalation but we keep a battery powered co detector in the tent just in case.

I'm assuming you would just keep the heater on for a while before you go to sleep and then shut it off?

[lredman]

Originally Posted by Au revoir, Gopher

Unless you are both 4'6" tall how could you possibly have room for a heater in a Tarn3? In cold temperatures it is moisture that is your enemy. Here is what I recommend:

1. have a footprint for the tent
2. have a closed cell foam pad
3. have a them-a-rest over the foam pad
4. have a sleeping bag that is good to the temperature you are expecting
5. have a liner for the sleeping bag
6. if possible, air your sleeping bag and liner during the day.
7. have dry clothes to sleep in (I keep a pair of heavy wool socks and silk base layer shirt. Long johns only if it is really cold)

ARG

Thanks for the tips. I am able to get my hands on a cot, which would allow us to get off of the ground. Inside the tent is surprisingly roomy and the heaters i've been looking at take up very little room.

[TrollGRG]

Originally Posted by lredman

Thanks for the tips. I am able to get my hands on a cot, which would allow us to get off of the ground. Inside the tent is surprisingly roomy and the heaters i've been looking at take up very little room.

You will find that the cot is not a good idea. The cold air under it will keep you cold all night. It is convenient to sit on and getting dressed etc but for sleeping you are much better off with good insulation on the floor.

[lredman]

Originally Posted by TrollGRG

You will find that the cot is not a good idea. The cold air under it will keep you cold all night. It is convenient to sit on and getting dressed etc but for sleeping you are much better off with good insulation on the floor.

Ah OK, I didn't even think about that. I'll use ARG's suggestion for the layering then. Thanks!

[TheClash]

blue foamie down first then your thermarest as was suggested already. proper sleep clothes...no cotton...

eat some fat and protein before you go to bed..some jerky and chocolate works well..and make sure you pee before you climb in your sleeping bag. holding your pee in all night will take up valuable energy.

[S-in-Cochrane]

I've done the cot thing with your sleeping pad on top of the cot. Very warm and comfortable.

[honda450]

Originally Posted by S-in-Cochrane

I've done the cot thing with your sleeping pad on top of the cot. Very warm and comfortable.

Yup thats the way I do it with a Cabelas XL Outfitter cot. My sleeping bag is The Beast, 3 layers which are removable. That way ya can wash them etc. Take out layers as its too hot. I made a few other liners for it to with velcro fasteners. I am a wiz with fabric glue. hehehe

[Albertadiver]

Originally Posted by honda450

I am a wiz with fabric glue. hehehe

Oddly enough, come movember time, so is Cabertosser!

[gregc]

don't bring a heater into that tent unless you want to wake up dead, too dangerous. i know of two people who were involved in preventable deaths in this manner. if you want to keep your tent a bit warmer, go to mec and get their 3 candle utco holder. this will keep the tent a bit warmer, prevent condensation, and throw a bit of light.

when you are winter camping, a good sleeping bag plus adequate preparation s are your friends.

have fun on your trip- no bugs to worry about and not too hot outside.

[densa44]

Gopher is right. Besides I have a burn on my body from a catalytic heater from a winter trip long ago. I still have the scar, but I need to look in the mirror to see it.

[ÜberFly]

No way you'd be able to get a cot in a Tarn!!

This months Explore magazine has a great article on winter camping. A few more tips in additionto the ones listed here!!

P

[TheClash]

tarn 2 no, tarn 3 yes....would be tight on your feet though.

[greylynx]

[QUOTE=Albertadiver;1708199]I have a Tarn 3, and I have a big buddy heater.

Big Buddy Heater = Duke the Black Lab.

[ÜberFly]

Hmmmmmm?! Not sure... Depends on what type of cot, I guess as well!!

If you could, it would be tight, very tight!!

P

P.S> That's what she said!! LoL (Ohhhh Cot, I thought you said Co*k!)! LoL

Originally Posted by TheClash

tarn 2 no, tarn 3 yes....would be tight on your feet though.

[Okotokian]

Just don't do it. It's not that cold right now anyway. I've camped out in this with a 20 year old fibre-fill bag and a nylon tarp. Was fine.

good bag, groundsheet, pad... you'll be fine. Keep your fleece on if you want.

[Heavy K]

X 2 on the no heater and no cots. Do what's otherwise been recommended. With a proper mat and appropriate sleeping bag there is no need to have a heat source at night.

I'll add a couple things though.

1. Always have a dry base layer of "sleeping clothes". Change into them immediately before hitting the sack. Dampness accumulates in your clothing during the and even when your rummaging around camp shoveling snow or gathering water. That can make you chilly pretty quickly once your immobile. [Edit: Never mind, Gopher already mentioned that!] That said, avoid bundling up too much when you first crawl in. This can lead to massive "sweat attacks" once your bag lofts up. This is usually right after you've fallen asleep, and is [I]really[I] unpleasant. Go to bed slightly cool, and bundle up later if you wake up chilly. Mummy style bags that cover the head are best for this, but you should nonetheless wear a dry toque to bed to prevent heatloss from the ol' noggin.


2. Also, I highly recommend NOT using a tent. Build a shelter our of a tarp, ie a lean-to or a mini A-frame. It should be enough to keep the precip, wind, and tree-bombs off of you, but ventilates moisture from your breath way better. I find tents are miserious places to spend multiple nights in during the winter, unless you're camped well above treeline. They just get a lot of condensation which I find unpleasant. For a day or two, they're not too bad though.

3. If you're super worried, fill a nalgene full of boiling water and cover it in a dry piece of clothing. Chuck it in the sleeping bag before bed time. Makes a nice little "warmth baby" for you to spoon through the night. Plus it gives you liquid drinking water to throw on the stove first thing in the morning when you wake up. That cup of coffee is ready that much sooner!

4. A note on your tent if you do use it. The Tarns are spring/summer/fall tents. They're not really designed for winter use. You'll be fine in a sheltered spot in terms of withstanding wind, but the bigger issue is the big flat spot in the middle of the roof. If you get a big dump of whale blubber snow overnight, you wouldn't be the first to have had the tent collapse on you. You can mitigate this by setting up an overhead tarp to keep the snowload off, but as mentioned above, I'd lose the tent altogether.

Have fun! Don't go for your first trip when it's minus a billion. That's not fun even for the best equipped folks.

HK

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by Albertadiver

and I have a big buddy heater.

We don't need to know about that 'Diver. And we would never judge you.

[TheClash]

Originally Posted by Heavy K

X 2 on the no heater and no cots. Do what's otherwise been recommended. With a proper mat and appropriate sleeping bag there is no need to have a heat source at night.

I'll add a couple things though.

1. Always have a dry base layer of "sleeping clothes". Change into them immediately before hitting the sack. Dampness accumulates in your clothing during the and even when your rummaging around camp shoveling snow or gathering water. That can make you chilly pretty quickly once your immobile. [Edit: Never mind, Gopher already mentioned that!] That said, avoid bundling up too much when you first crawl in. This can lead to massive "sweat attacks" once your bag lofts up. This is usually right after you've fallen asleep, and is [I]really[I] unpleasant. Go to bed slightly cool, and bundle up later if you wake up chilly. Mummy style bags that cover the head are best for this, but you should nonetheless wear a dry toque to bed to prevent heatloss from the ol' noggin.


2. Also, I highly recommend NOT using a tent. Build a shelter our of a tarp, ie a lean-to or a mini A-frame. It should be enough to keep the precip, wind, and tree-bombs off of you, but ventilates moisture from your breath way better. I find tents are miserious places to spend multiple nights in during the winter, unless you're camped well above treeline. They just get a lot of condensation which I find unpleasant. For a day or two, they're not too bad though.

3. If you're super worried, fill a nalgene full of boiling water and cover it in a dry piece of clothing. Chuck it in the sleeping bag before bed time. Makes a nice little "warmth baby" for you to spoon through the night. Plus it gives you liquid drinking water to throw on the stove first thing in the morning when you wake up. That cup of coffee is ready that much sooner!

4. A note on your tent if you do use it. The Tarns are spring/summer/fall tents. They're not really designed for winter use. You'll be fine in a sheltered spot in terms of withstanding wind, but the bigger issue is the big flat spot in the middle of the roof. If you get a big dump of whale blubber snow overnight, you wouldn't be the first to have had the tent collapse on you. You can mitigate this by setting up an overhead tarp to keep the snowload off, but as mentioned above, I'd lose the tent altogether.

Have fun! Don't go for your first trip when it's minus a billion. That's not fun even for the best equipped folks.

HK

excellent post.

[TrollGRG]

I saw an army tent for sale on here not long ago. If you are going to tent in the winter then that is the way to go. Be sure to get the liner with it. It is heavy but you have lots of room (as long as you are not using it as the name describes - 5 man tent is good for 3 people and a ten man tent is good for 5). I also saw an thread here of someone going to the US of A - maybe they could pick one up for you at a cheaper price. Be sure that it is the "Arctic" tent - not simply one like an ordinary wall tent. I also have some parachute material for sale here if you want to go the lean-to way.

[Albertadiver]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

We don't need to know about that 'Diver. And we would never judge you.

When we going campin' again sweetie?

[coppercarbide]

I use an MEC Nunatuk 3, which is a bit bigger than the Tarn, but I do use a Portable Buddy heater (which is a bit too big, but very useful if used correctly)

A sleeping bag doesn't 'provide' heat, it just retains it. If you've got a proper bag (and don't underestimate the value of a liner), you will be fine once the bag is at temperature.

I turn on the heater about 30 minutes before going to bed, so the tent and the bag are already warmed (heater goes in the vestibule, outer vestibule door is closed and the tent door is open. Even then, the heater is a bit big for the tent, but it works okay. The little buddy heater you posted would be able to accomplish the same thing.

When you're ready to go to bed, turn the heater off, you won't need it with the proper gear and it can be dangerous to your health and your equipment.

I turn it on when I wake up in the morning and let it roll for 15 minutes before I get out of bed too, makes mornings a lot more pleasant.

Also, if you can find something to pee in if you have to at night (WITH A CAP! haha), I would highly recommend it. Trying to re-warm a bag at 2AM can make for a miserable half hour.

Where you guys off to?

[lredman]

Thanks everyone for all of the discussion! It has helped me a lot with planning and preparation for the trip.
Here is what my set up will be:

1. Ground tarp (may shovel snow out of the way first if there is some).
2. Place the tent down with fly and another tarp over top
3. Place another tarp in the tent
4. Use a thick blanket to place under the thermarests.
5. Blue foam pad
6. Therm a rest
7. Down sleeping bag
8. Wearing a toque if needed, changing clothes, wearing lots of wool.
9. Considering warming up rocks and wrapping them in towels, however the idea of boiling water and then transferring it into a water bottle sounds a lot easier!

I won't be using a heater this trip as I picked up the sleeping bags instead. I think we will be fine and we hope to catch lots of fish/ hopefully get a white tail!

Rogue

[Albertadiver]

I've rented from U of C before, for winter gear that I hadn't yet purchased.

If there's lots of snow, it can be your friend as a great insulator.

Here's a link for some ideas.

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=151095

[lredman]

Originally Posted by Albertadiver

I've rented from U of C before, for winter gear that I hadn't yet purchased.

If there's lots of snow, it can be your friend as a great insulator.

Here's a link for some ideas.

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=151095

Really cool post; tons of good ideas. You've had your fair share of winter camping I see! Thanks

Rogue

[greylynx]

Originally Posted by lredman

Really cool post; tons of good ideas. You've had your fair share of winter camping I see! Thanks

Rogue

Go and look at Alberta Diver's list of past posts.
He has some really neat winter camping threads.