RCMP Drag 2 Seniors In Their 80's Down Stairs - Page 3

Redfrog · #61 10-29-2016, 03:35 PM

Thug Life or Gangsta? You need to walk the walk, or down the stairs for you.

58thecat · #62 10-29-2016, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waterninja

It occurs to me that I and some others on here might be coming off as "cop haters'. I for one really do have respect for the police, but once in awhile you see or hear something that makes your blood boil, or you completly disagree with.
In this video I saw one police officer who was acting with great discipline and restraint while containing that elderly lady with a screaming kid and a civilian bystander interfering with what he was doing. I thought he was doing a great job.
On the other hand that other "officer" seemed to completly lose his head in this situation. At the bottom of the stairs he simply became a bully with a badge. Sure hope they send him for some anger mngt, or a psych evaluation after this incident.

We missed the lead up to the events that took place, all we got was what was presented, hard to make anything out of what was given!
Assuming and speculating is all that's taking place here.

TomP · #63 10-29-2016, 06:41 PM

Of course media blows it out of proportion... Threw down the stairs eh...he got dragged down the stairs. They resisted... Yeah maybe it was a little harsh but cmon.. Granted we didn't see what started it. i think people overreact to lots nowadays...calling that a beating is a far stretch. Handled poorly perhaps on both ends

Weedy1 · #64 10-29-2016, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomP

Of course media blows it out of proportion... Threw down the stairs eh...he got dragged down the stairs. They resisted... Yeah maybe it was a little harsh but cmon.. Granted we didn't see what started it. i think people overreact to lots nowadays...calling that a beating is a far stretch. Handled poorly perhaps on both ends

If the kicking part turns out to have any truth to it this cop will be doing time in short order and there will be seniors rioting in Coquitlam.

Again, make of it what you will. From the first article I posted:

Myung Ju Lee described in blunt terms the treatment he received from police.

"He grabbed my arm, twisted it, put it behind my back, then kicked me [down the stairs] from the second floor," he said.

"They pushed and kicked, and I rolled down, down, down ... Then he came down, pushed my chest using the knee. Several times.

"'Are you trying to kill me? Are you trying to kill me?'", I shouted," Ju Lee continued.

"And finally, at the bottom of the stairs, I was handcuffed. 'I'm not a criminal. I'm not a criminal ... I'm a senior. Why do you have me in handcuffs?'' I kept asking. They would not answer."

Bushrat · #65 10-29-2016, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by britman101

Another black eye for the RCMP. To "protect and to serve" my ass. Do they treat gang members, drug dealers, and thieves like this. Of course not, but give them an old lady and old man and they beat the living tar out of them. Would they want their mother or father dragged down some stairs and manhandled. What an embarrassment for the RCMP.

I didn't see anybody having 'the living tar beat out of them" I didn't see anybody kick anybody down the stairs. I don't see any wounds or broken bones, blood or any apparent injuries. These people obviously could speak English and understood what the police were saying to them. The hotel called the police to have them removed as they obviously were causing a problem and would not leave when asked. It's not like they were senile or feeble minded being that they were at a condo/apartment strata meeting. I have no real sympathy for them, they know the program. It's too bad people act so stupid but when they do that's what happens. The police haven't got all day to pamper and sweet talk idiots like that. What if they had a weapon. It's all on the couple, all they had to do was comply with what they were told.

Back in the day it is highly unlikely the couple would have acted that way. Back in the day when many here say cops were respected is when the cops didn't take crap like that, they would take an idiot acting stupid like that and really rough him up, they would take them out to the edge of town and tune them up if required to get their point across. Maybe that's why police were respected. They didn't take crap from idiots and people rarely acted near as stupid as they do today. A couple raps on the head or in the shins with a cops billy club, maybe some cracked ribs or broken teeth often resulted in a positive change of attitude back in the day, no court costs, lawyers fees, counsellors, probation officers, prosecutors, none of that foolishness, just a simple quick effective tune up that everyone understood.

elkhunter11 · #66 10-29-2016, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weedy1

If the kicking part turns out to have any truth to it this cop will be doing time in short order and there will be seniors rioting in Coquitlam.

Again, make of it what you will. From the first article I posted:

Myung Ju Lee described in blunt terms the treatment he received from police.

"He grabbed my arm, twisted it, put it behind my back, then kicked me [down the stairs] from the second floor," he said.

"They pushed and kicked, and I rolled down, down, down ... Then he came down, pushed my chest using the knee. Several times.

"'Are you trying to kill me? Are you trying to kill me?'", I shouted," Ju Lee continued.

"And finally, at the bottom of the stairs, I was handcuffed. 'I'm not a criminal. I'm not a criminal ... I'm a senior. Why do you have me in handcuffs?'' I kept asking. They would not answer."

Now it starting to have something in common with the Vancouver airport incident, in that the the story the old man is telling, doesn't appear to match what we see in the video. I wonder if his story about getting kicked down the first set of stairs is accurate?

waterninja · #67 10-29-2016, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 58thecat

We missed the lead up to the events that took place, all we got was what was presented, hard to make anything out of what was given!
Assuming and speculating is all that's taking place here.

I am only going by what I see on that video. Unless your saying that the video was photo shopped or somehow altered, then i am not speculating or assuming anything.
I have no idea how it all started, nor am I speculating on what might have occurred before the video started. If it's true that grandpa was pushed or thrown down the stairs, and thats why he was laying there, then that would just make things even worse for the officer involved (in my opinion). But that's just speculation at this point.

Bushrat · #68 10-29-2016, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Now it starting to have something in common with the Vancouver airport incident, in that the the story the old man is telling, doesn't appear to match what we see in the video. I wonder if his story about getting kicked down the first set of stairs is accurate?

Nothing like the Vancouver incident, these people speak and understand English fluently. They are residents of the Canada and have lived here for years and know the police protocol, have a general knowledge of laws, that they are supposed to listen and comply to what the police say until they figure out the situation.

elkhunter11 · #69 10-29-2016, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bushrat

Nothing like the Vancouver incident, these people speak and understand English fluently. They are residents of the Canada and have lived here for years and know the police protocol, have a general knowledge of laws, that they are supposed to listen and comply to what the police say until they figure out the situation.

I realize that, my reply was only making the point that the old man's story didn't match what I see in the video.

Weedy1 · #70 10-29-2016, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

I realize that, my reply was only making the point that the old man's story didn't match what I see in the video.

The video starts (presumably after he was kicked down the stairs) at the second half of the stairs.

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sailor · #71 10-29-2016, 08:09 PM

So I watched video,read 3 pages of Nobel members discussion and didn't understood why RCMP showed up on the scene to arrest the old guy.
I think there was serious reason-and may be we should praise officers for not shooting him dead .
BTW Honorable members how would you deal with HIV infected you have to hold and deliver to...? And he trying to bite you.Talking from own experience being bitten throw few layers and damaged skin -thanks God saliva didn't go through...
I am not a cop just used to be in bad place in wrong time...

hilt134 · #72 10-29-2016, 08:16 PM

Fact of the matter is theres terrible cops in the world just like theres doctors, teachers, soldiors, and everday people who are terrible. Noke of them deserve respect but for some reason with cops unlike the others is we dont judge them all by the actions of the few. Now im not acussing anyone here of doing that but a lot of the things i hear about cops these days are doing exactly that. Its a shame what happend to these folks we just have tomake sure we dont jsude them all the same way.

Sooner · #73 10-29-2016, 08:24 PM

From the article, they were already being a problem long before the Rcmp showed, I would guess they figured they could use their senior-ship to their advantage. When that wasn't happening, more non compliance.

I have no issue with any of the video(really wasn't that bad) until the old guy got pulled down the stairs. If he was going to hang onto every spindle on the way down, do as mentioned. Restrain each one of them at the top of the stairs, get 3 or 4 officers and carry each one down and outside. Wouldn't even be a story if that part happened.

I hope this doesn't turn into a million dollar suit, the two elderly played a huge part in the situation and for sure the one officer should be reprimanded but not fired Imo.

The LEO's were called because these two were causing crap. It all boils down to, do as your told and we won't have an issue. Both parties at fault here.

elkhunter11 · #74 10-29-2016, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sailor

So I watched video,read 3 pages of Nobel members discussion and didn't understood why RCMP showed up on the scene to arrest the old guy.
I think there was serious reason-and may be we should praise officers for not shooting him dead .
BTW Honorable members how would you deal with HIV infected you have to hold and deliver to...? And he trying to bite you.Talking from own experience being bitten throw few layers and damaged skin -thanks God saliva didn't go through...
I am not a cop just used to be in bad place in wrong time...

According to the news, there was some type of confrontation and the couple were asked to leave the premises, but they refused to go. Then when the police showed up, the couple still refusd to leave, so the police had no choice but to remove them from the premises.

waterninja · #75 10-29-2016, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sailor

So I watched video,read 3 pages of Nobel members discussion and didn't understood why RCMP showed up on the scene to arrest the old guy.
I think there was serious reason-and may be we should praise officers for not shooting him dead .
BTW Honorable members how would you deal with HIV infected you have to hold and deliver to...? And he trying to bite you.Talking from own experience being bitten throw few layers and damaged skin -thanks God saliva didn't go through...
I am not a cop just used to be in bad place in wrong time...

Police have special "hoods" (called the HOOD, go figure) that cover a persons head if the person is trying to bite or spit, "cause spit happens". I didn't notice grandpa trying to spit or bite as he was being dragged from landing, or anyone else for that matter.

58thecat · #76 10-30-2016, 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waterninja

Police have special "hoods" (called the HOOD, go figure) that cover a persons head if the person is trying to bite or spit, "cause spit happens". I didn't notice grandpa trying to spit or bite as he was being dragged from landing, or anyone else for that matter.

What happened before?.....before the camera got turned on....

X files.

elkhunter11 · #77 10-30-2016, 07:56 AM

To the people that feel that the officers were way out of line in the way that they handled this, how would you personally have removed these people from the building?

dgl1948 · #78 10-30-2016, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

To the people that feel that the officers were way out of line in the way that they handled this, how would you personally have removed these people from the building?

Simple. Meeting over. Everyone leave.

silverdoctor · #79 10-30-2016, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

To the people that feel that the officers were way out of line in the way that they handled this, how would you personally have removed these people from the building?

It was a strata meeting, could have got heated. Police show up, calm people down, over and done. Like I said earlier, I've never been arrested - but I've had a few talking to's that were effective. That was 30 years ago - those talking to's today would likely result in a beat down. Unfortunately the RCMP have bloodied their own nose, no shortage of bad apples and they ruin it for the rest.

elkhunter11 · #80 10-30-2016, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dgl1948

Simple. Meeting over. Everyone leave.

Quote:

It was a strata meeting, could have got heated. Police show up, calm people down, over and done

Those aren't solutions. You are avoiding the question. The police arrived, the meeting was ended and the people refused to leave. Given that they won't leave, how do you as police officers get them out of the premises?

Quote:

When RCMP officers arrived, the meeting was shut down, but an elderly couple allegedly refused to leave the area.

silverdoctor · #81 10-30-2016, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Those aren't solutions. You are avoiding the question. The police arrived, the meeting was ended and the people refused to leave. Given that they won't leave, how do you as police officers get them out of the premises?

again, what happened over the years. I remember when I was 16 and underage, half drunk, beligerant and ready to start a fight with another fellow, One RCMP officer showed up and controlled the situation. I should have ended up in the drunk tank. You know what it's like when a fight is brewing - crowd of people shows up. I ended up going home - on foot after a good talking to. The cop could have easily cuffed me and off to jail.

Are you going to tell me that 2 or 3 cops couldn't handle this differently? What if that was your mother they were dragging down the stairs.

Dean2 · #82 10-30-2016, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Those aren't solutions. You are avoiding the question. The police arrived, the meeting was ended and the people refused to leave. Given that they won't leave, how do you as police officers get them out of the premises?

My first response, restrain, get a gurney, strap them to it and carry them down.
A COP tells you to do something does not make it a "Lawful" order in and of itself. Hotel is a public place, strata meeting they had a right to be at. Meeting got heated and was shut down. Old folks are unhappy they don't get to have their say. Cops are ccalled. The meeting was already stopped. If everyone left there was no one for the old folks to talk to, they would have left on their own.

Even if it was a lawful order, there are clear limits on the amount of force they are allowed to use. There is no damn way these two old folks warranted the amount of force being used on them.

Cops tuning people up is not their friggin job. Just because they can loose their temper and up till now get away with it does not make it right.

elkhunter11 · #83 10-30-2016, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silverdoctor

again, what happened over the years. I remember when I was 16 and underage, half drunk, beligerant and ready to start a fight with another fellow, One RCMP officer showed up and controlled the situation. I should have ended up in the drunk tank. You know what it's like when a fight is brewing - crowd of people shows up. I ended up going home - on foot after a good talking to. The cop could have easily cuffed me and off to jail.

Are you going to tell me that 2 or 3 cops couldn't handle this differently? What if that was your mother they were dragging down the stairs.

Again you are avoiding my question. I am simply asking you what you would have done if the people refused to leave, and you had to remove them from the building. I hear a lot of complaining, but so far no solutions.

58thecat · #84 10-30-2016, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dean2

My first response, restrain, get a gurney, strap them to it and carry them down.
A COP tells you to do something does not make it a "Lawful" order in and of itself. Hotel is a public place, strata meeting they had a right to be at. Meeting got heated and was shut down. Old folks are unhappy they don't get to have their say. Cops are ccalled. The meeting was already stopped. If everyone left there was no one for the old folks to talk to, they would have left on their own.

Even if it was a lawful order, there are clear limits on the amount of force they are allowed to use. There is no damn way these two old folks warranted the amount of force being used on them.

Cops tuning people up is not their friggin job. Just because they can loose their temper and up till now get away with it does not make it right.

You, I, we have no idea what took place prior to the camera running and even that gives one perspective.

sewerrat · #85 10-30-2016, 09:24 AM

Another thing, the person taping this video , why wasn't he/she helping? Why did he let the poor kid scream hysterically.

I think this is blown way up, there is a whole chunk missing from this story, why would you want to let your self being drug down the stairs by police, just cooperate, and it will be alright.

silverdoctor · #86 10-30-2016, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Again you are avoiding my question. I am simply asking you what you would have done if the people refused to leave, and you had to remove them from the building. I hear a lot of complaining, but so far no solutions.

Calm the situation down and leave. Police can't be expected to do everything but yet, more and more is tossed on them, it's a crock. There's a part of me that feels bad for them, society can't take care of itself anymore, everyone wants to be babysat.

That's just my 2 cents, gimme back some change

bobtodrick · #87 10-30-2016, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silverdoctor

It was a strata meeting, could have got heated. Police show up, calm people down, over and done. Like I said earlier, I've never been arrested - but I've had a few talking to's that were effective. That was 30 years ago - those talking to's today would likely result in a beat down. Unfortunately the RCMP have bloodied their own nose, no shortage of bad apples and they ruin it for the rest.

As you say, your experiences were 30 years ago...and that now the RCMP are more likely to lay a 'beat down'... in those same intervening 30 years, from TV, movies and media we have a public that is far more likely to act aggressively when confronted by LE.
A bit of the 'chicken or the egg' scenario...what came first, overuse of authority by LE or a public that (many) has the attitude that they have the right to do whatever they please.
Personally I wouldn't want a cops job today.

elkhunter11 · #88 10-30-2016, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silverdoctor

Calm the situation down and leave. Police can't be expected to do everything but yet, more and more is tossed on them, it's a crock. There's a part of me that feels bad for them, society can't take care of itself anymore, everyone wants to be babysat.

That's just my 2 cents, gimme back some change

Again you are avoiding the question. The police arrived and ordered the people to leave, and the people refused. The police now have the task of removing people from private property that they refuse to leave when ordered to do so. The police simply giving up and walking away is not an acceptable solution.

silverdoctor · #89 10-30-2016, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobtodrick

As you say, your experiences were 30 years ago...and that now the RCMP are more likely to lay a 'beat down'... in those same intervening 30 years, from TV, movies and media we have a public that is far more likely to act aggressively when confronted by LE.
A bit of the 'chicken or the egg' scenario...what came first, overuse of authority by LE or a public that (many) has the attitude that they have the right to do whatever they please.
Personally I wouldn't want a cops job today.

Nor would I. i can understand how police can get frustrated, they have to do alot more this day in age than 30 years ago. Much of what they are doing today isn't even police work, it's babysitting plain and simple.

But then again, a screaming match back then wasn't a reason to call the cops.

CritterCommander · #90 10-30-2016, 09:55 AM

It seems to me that there must have been some perceived urgency to getting these 2 old folks out of the meeting room. Why not just leave them alone in the room until they got tired or hungry or needed a bathroom and closed the door behind them after they left.

I have no doubt that they were given a lawful order to leave, and didn't listen. But you see that almost daily on the news, any kind of anti-pipeline, anti-this-that-or-the-other-thing protest group likely get lawful orders that are disobeyed many times a day.

I am sure there is likely much more to this than we know, however still reflects poorly on the police in general.