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  #31  
Old 10-30-2016, 09:19 AM
Newview01 Newview01 is offline
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Diverse multiculturalism is the death of civilizations.
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  #32  
Old 10-30-2016, 10:04 AM
Bitumen Bullet Bitumen Bullet is offline
 
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Originally Posted by densa44 View Post
What got us to this cycle of depopulation were the immigration policies of the last 2 centuries, while the Americans had an open immigration policy so that they could move from a 3 rd world status to the colossus that it has become. .
Canada and the US had similar immigration policies in the past, which is why the mix of immigrants were so similar at least until the late 20th century, so that can't be the reason they thrived while Canada and it's prospects withered. I would suggest the U.S. advanced beyond a 1st stage resource based economy by having a very different view towards the lands they conquered and acquired.

This is clearly seen in Western Canada where the new lands, taken by force as did the USA were seen as colonies of Canada, not part of Canada. This is why Canada had, and still has, many different laws and practices that apply to Western Canada and not "Central" Canada in the East.

It can also been seen in how Canada treated their colonists businesses and how Canada controlled growth in their newly acquired colonies. Some areas had thriving businesses.

For example today's Manitoba had their own colony, complete with many of European descent, including Riel whose parents were white catholic farmers. These people had many businesses and supplied much of the food for Hudson Bay and their many outposts.

Before Canada took control they had 18 or more Windmills grinding wheat into flour and more than a half dozen waterwheels and multiple steam powered mills with their advanced technology. I mentioned Riel because his family also had a mill. There was an established industry to grow but that growth ground (pun) to a halt with the arrival of Canada which I think can best be seen in how Canada controlled funding to businesses in Western Canada.

Canada's financial institutions were few, basically just the Family Compact, Chateau Clique and the Maritime Establishment and their offshoots of which we can still see today. They did not see their role as that of Nation building. Their investments were for their profit, safety and security, to ensure they remained dominate.

And the Canadian government adopted their attitudes, listened to and still does listen to them when it comes to economic policies and as a result saw their new colonies as little more than cash cows to advance their already established interests. For them it was easier to strip off the countries natural resources and export them raw.

The U.S. on the other hand developed a diversified economy that poured available capital back into that development.

By 1910 the U.S. had 25,000 different banks headquarters and ownership spread across the country. They collected capital and then used that capital to support regional growth in their own area. One bank for every 3600 Americans, banks that reinvested locally.

By 1910 Canada had only 11 banks, one for every 63,000 Canadians, all headquartered in Eastern Canada, with the rest of the country serviced by branches that had little discretion when it came to loans and no mandate to service or advance local interests. Canadian savings, which were high at the time, were funneled back to the Eastern based banks who used them to advance their own local interests.

Worst yet the lack of funding for Canadian businesses, even in Eastern Canada, created a vacuum into which Americans stepped with American funding. Funding that ensured investment advanced American and not Canadian interests.

Even today Canadian interests, our industries, answer to foreign masters and Western Canada is still treated by Canada, the real Canada, Central Canada in the east, as a colony that should be quiet and send cash.
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  #33  
Old 10-30-2016, 10:42 AM
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CMichaud CMichaud is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Bitumen Bullet View Post
The Canadian birth rate is well below replacement.

Our population increases are directly linked to immigration. About 40% of Canadians were not born in Canada or have at least one parent not born in Canada. Few other countries have been so welcoming and I suspect if other countries had they would have managed to use it to get global thanks in the form of cash transfers.

Might be something we should be asking for when European and other Nations demand we help more refugees if only to remind the world that Canadians, at least those that integrate and/or after a couple generations are sustainable and yet still Welcoming.
Note I did not say (immigration aside) that our birthrate was replacing our death rate.

Immigration may be required to sustain our population but the question is why do we need to have population growth?

Could we actually have a smaller population? Why is growth the only option?

What other models exist?

Should we focus on targeted immigration of culturally similar populations?

Should we focus on assisting refugees to settle here permanently or focus on rebuilding their shattered homelands to permit their ultimate return?

What is the environmental impact to unchecked population growth to Canada or the World?

What impact will increased immigration have on first nations?

Some tough questions that seem to never be discussed. The dialogue always seems to be we need more people period.

The US experience is not the Canadian experience for many reasons - climate likely playing a key role. There is a reason most Canadians are settled near our Southern border.
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  #34  
Old 10-30-2016, 11:38 AM
Bitumen Bullet Bitumen Bullet is offline
 
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Originally Posted by CMichaud View Post
Note I did not say (immigration aside) that our birthrate was replacing our death rate.

Immigration may be required to sustain our population but the question is why do we need to have population growth?

Could we actually have a smaller population? Why is growth the only option?

What other models exist?

Should we focus on targeted immigration of culturally similar populations?

Should we focus on assisting refugees to settle here permanently or focus on rebuilding their shattered homelands to permit their ultimate return?

What is the environmental impact to unchecked population growth to Canada or the World?

What impact will increased immigration have on first nations?

Some tough questions that seem to never be discussed. The dialogue always seems to be we need more people period.

The US experience is not the Canadian experience for many reasons - climate likely playing a key role. There is a reason most Canadians are settled near our Southern border.

All excellent questions, though I wouldn't target any ones perceived race, such as first nations, as I would suggest all Canadians should be equal regardless of race but then we can't even discuss that.

As for where we settle, that is due to money, more so than just climate, hence the high population density in Central and Northern Alberta, even though it snows, and stays, in early October. Our economic policies have determined our population patterns, particularly in Western Canada.

I really like the idea of a discussion about a smaller population, particularly after reading that even Canada's 3.5 per sq/km may not be small enough to allow earths major ecosystems to recover. Canada could show a different path than most have chosen, lead the way by example.

If we lowered our population, which is so tiny it would have little impact globally, we could have a nation with only 3 or 2 people per sq/km. That is something I think would be worth looking at.

But first we'd have to get Canadians to take an interest and with the majority having hyphenated loyalties to other countries, I doubt Canadians want anything other than to continue massive immigration.
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  #35  
Old 10-30-2016, 12:24 PM
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Grizzly Adams Grizzly Adams is offline
 
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Originally Posted by densa44 View Post
The reason that Scots and Ukrainians have done so well I think, is that the climate was similar to their original homes.

During the 1930's every 1/4 section on the prairies had a family, not now.

We have lots of room, most of the world's fresh water, and a shrinking population.

I can remember when Canada didn't want: the Irish, Catholics, Sikhs, Jews, DPs, Italians, Hungarians, and most recently Indians and Arabs.

There was a time the CPR and the government went around the world promoting Canada as a place to live. They brought the Mennonites, Hutterites and Doukobours. We need more people, the question is what should we do about it.

, this would be the third time that I know of; around 1900 they came for the good cheap land (my neighbours came from Texas) the second during the Viet Nam war, lots are still here, and this could be the third.

What do you think?

Then why is 90 %of our population concentrated within 200 miles of the US border ? Most of our land area is north of 60, but hardly suitable for use other than by Natives and they ain't gonna give up their rights.


I think the Americans would come

The Great Canadian fear and motivator of our past national policy, including the building of the rail roads.

Grizz
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  #36  
Old 10-30-2016, 12:55 PM
The Elkster The Elkster is offline
 
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The reason we need growth is that our system and much of our way of life is based on a pyramid system of labor. Immigration has replaced the need to have 10 children to ensure you have enough people working in the fields to cover you as you get old. Energy/O&G has alleviated some of the human labor needs but certainly not all. This is where our capitalist system and high standard of living is starting to meet head on with practical realities like resource depletion, pollution and overcrowding. Unchecked growth is simply not sustainable even if it does lead to some nice short term perks. I always said capitalism was doomed to fail. It just hasn't had time to play itself out yet.

I'm all for maintaining or slightly decreasing the population but there will be consequences for doing so...mainly in the form of lower standard of living. An attempt at downsizing is probably the one area that may be helped by the move to automation. For a downsizing to happen we need something to do much of the heavy lifting humans are doing today or we are going to feel the hurt. Unfortunately we are also going to be facing some energy supply issues in the not too distant future. Energy that automation/machines badly need. Too many people mistaking a short term supply glut as long term security. Interesting times ahead.
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  #37  
Old 10-30-2016, 12:57 PM
elkdump elkdump is offline
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Originally Posted by woodsman205 View Post
WHAT A MORON!

But what can you expect from a White Water Rafting Guide? That may just of cost him the next election! Fingers Crossed!
I read all the posts on this thread, nothing can be added to this ,


WHAT A MORON
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  #38  
Old 10-30-2016, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by densa44 View Post
Did you know that the USA and Canada had about the same amount of casualties in WW1 and our population was only 8 million people.
NB: According to Wiki:

US KIA was 117,465
US WIA was 204,002

Canada KIA was 58,639 to 66,996
Canada WIA was 149,732

Also bear in mind that the US joined the war in 1917 whereas Canada declared war in 1914.
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  #39  
Old 10-30-2016, 04:32 PM
Bitumen Bullet Bitumen Bullet is offline
 
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Originally Posted by The Elkster View Post
...
I'm all for maintaining or slightly decreasing the population but there will be consequences for doing so...mainly in the form of lower standard of living. ....
That is very much the case if we let others decide how we run our economy, how we exploit and export our increasingly valuable natural resources. I suggest we can increase our standard of living by lowering or raising our population and giving Canadians a larger piece of a larger pie.

Trouble is the Elite, including the Canadian Elite, like the concentration of wealth and have no intention of sharing or even discussing the possibility that there could be other choices.
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  #40  
Old 10-30-2016, 07:33 PM
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Grizzly Adams Grizzly Adams is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CMichaud View Post
NB: According to Wiki:

US KIA was 117,465
US WIA was 204,002

Canada KIA was 58,639 to 66,996
Canada WIA was 149,732

Also bear in mind that the US joined the war in 1917 whereas Canada declared war in 1914.
US missed all the meatgrinder battles as well. By the time they showed up, the Hun was about finished.

Grizz
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