New trout regs

[buckman]

So many streams now have a 0 limit on all species to protect the cutthroat trout.

My observations are that the huge bull trout are taking more of them than anglers. Perhaps a few bulls should be allowed for trophy mounts. A tag system should work well.

I rarely keep a wild fish,but a fresh brook trout in the pan is a rare(now illegal) treat.

A few streams I fish both north and south of Calgary are full of brookies, surely any COMPITENT angler can easilly identify and tell the difference from a cutthroat/rainbow/brookie.

Even the whitefish are off limits. Your thoughts please.

[Taco]

Get a Stewardship Licence and you can have many a brook trout feed

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=94220

I killed 411 of the little bastards out of upper Willow alone in 2 seasons

[davebuck]

If it was up to the people changing the regs wanting catch an release everywhere we Will be fishing with feathers on the end of our line an eating farmed fish

[EZM]

To be clear - rainbow pose the biggest danger to cutthroats ....... thru inter breeding. There are simply very few watersheds left with pure cuttys that have not been invaded by the invasive rainbows.

Bulls may take some, but I doubt that's the largest danger to the wild populations.

Anyone who holds a fishing licence in province should know, and know how to properly identify all species to avoid over harvest. IMO there should be a similar competency test for fishing (as exsists with hunting licenses).

[keep6matt]

Birds kill more fish in any water system than any other predator, true fact.

[lannie]

My largest fear for the drainages of the S.W. are the Otters. They are in full force on the Crow. The Crow is getting pressure from many different areas and the Otters are killing machines. One odd thing is as the community cleans up the water it uses going back into the river the caliber of fishing declines. The heyday of the Crow has passed and is constantly being challenged by new adversaries.

[fish gunner]

Love the idea. Fish dieing of old age my favorite.

[tight line]

Originally Posted by keep6matt

Birds kill more fish in any water system than any other predator, true fact.

X2 ive watched one osprey pick off alot fish! Cool to watch! Big Bulls are a sign of a healthy watershed. Most of the cutt rivers i fish have been C & R for years and have a very healthy population of cutts & RMW and a lot of large bulls. The only predator that needs to be controled is us... There is lots of lakes very close to my streams with lots of nice brookies, lakers etc that i can keep if i want!

[McLeod]

Originally Posted by Taco

Get a Stewardship Licence and you can have many a brook trout feed

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=94220

I killed 411 of the little bastards out of upper Willow alone in 2 seasons

The stewardship license as you know and everyone should know only applies to certain waters not all flowing waters that have Brookies !

[pipco]

The more C & R the better. Along with that, much stiffer fines for dirtbag, lowlife poachers that don't care to or can't read the regulations.

[goldscud]

Cutthroats getting rare:

2013-03-30 Alberta's Westslope Cutthroat Trout Designated as Threatened
— filed under: Front Page News, Species At Risk Archive, Cutthroat Trout Archive
2013-03-30 Alberta's Westslope Cutthroat Trout Designated as Threatened

Extract from the federal Canada Gazette, designated Alberta's population of Westslope cutthroat trout an endangered species under the federal Species at Risk Act. Native populations of this fish have been “drastically reduced, by almost 80%, due to over-exploitation, habitat degradation and hybridization/competition with non-native trout.”

[McLeod]

There are only 6 creeks that are confirmed to have 100 per cent pure strain westslope cuts

[EZM]

Originally Posted by goldscud

Cutthroats getting rare:

2013-03-30 Alberta's Westslope Cutthroat Trout Designated as Threatened
— filed under: Front Page News, Species At Risk Archive, Cutthroat Trout Archive
2013-03-30 Alberta's Westslope Cutthroat Trout Designated as Threatened

Extract from the federal Canada Gazette, designated Alberta's population of Westslope cutthroat trout an endangered species under the federal Species at Risk Act. Native populations of this fish have been “drastically reduced, by almost 80%, due to over-exploitation, habitat degradation and hybridization/competition with non-native trout.”

The last point you made = hybridization and competition with non native trout applies to rainbows.

It would be a travestly to lose out native cutthroats due to our introduction of non native Rainbow stocks in many watersheds.

A pure cutthroat looks very different than many of the ones we catch here in the province. There are still a few areas where rainbows have not been introduced and catching one of these pure westslopes will quickly paint you a picture of what i'm talking about.

Protecting our cutts should be SRD priority in my opinion.

[Shannon89]

I had no idea cutthroats were in such bad shape, sad

[Pikebreath]

Originally Posted by buckman

So many streams now have a 0 limit on all species to protect the cutthroat trout.

My observations are that the huge bull trout are taking more of them than anglers. Perhaps a few bulls should be allowed for trophy mounts. A tag system should work well.

I rarely keep a wild fish,but a fresh brook trout in the pan is a rare(now illegal) treat.

A few streams I fish both north and south of Calgary are full of brookies, surely any COMPITENT angler can easilly identify and tell the difference from a cutthroat/rainbow/brookie.

Even the whitefish are off limits. Your thoughts please.

Check the regs more carefully,,, most streams in the Highwood, Elbow, Kananaskis, and Bow drainages in ES1 still allow the harvest of 2 brook trout per day. And I am not sure where you get the idea whitefish are off limits.

A greater danger to our current fisheries is the hybridization of rainbows with cutthroats. Right now the 0 rainbow / cutthroat limit looks like like a good thing.... But very very few streams have pure strain native cutts left in them. If the powers that be decide to try to eliminate non native species such as rainbows / cuttbows because of the potential of further hybridization, we as anglers stand to lose a lot more than we bargained for.

[buckman]

Fallentimber,Burnt timber,and others have a 0 limit on all species,unless I am reading them wrong.The same applies to many southern mountain streams the way I read it.

Strange how they want the Brook trout and rainbows removed but the also introduced Brown is fine.As for myself I enjoy the Brookies.They give great sport,bite readilly and taste great.

As for the Bulls,if you havent had one grab your hooked fish as you played it you havent fished some of the streams both south and north much.They are a huge predetor of all other species taking the best runs and lies in the stream.

Dont misunderstand me I kill very few wild fish with Brook trout being the exception.This post was intended to bring awareness to the new regs.

Lets face it SRD is struggling with the real issues of logging,oil and gas and thier impact on the fishery as well as overharvest of the cutthroat.

[Pikebreath]

Originally Posted by buckman

Fallentimber,Burnt timber,and others have a 0 limit on all species,unless I am reading them wrong.The same applies to many southern mountain streams the way I read it.

Strange how they want the Brook trout and rainbows removed but the also introduced Brown is fine.As for myself I enjoy the Brookies.They give great sport,bite readilly and taste great.

As for the Bulls,if you havent had one grab your hooked fish as you played it you havent fished some of the streams both south and north much.They are a huge predetor of all other species taking the best runs and lies in the stream.

Dont misunderstand me I kill very few wild fish with Brook trout being the exception.This post was intended to bring awareness to the new regs.

Lets face it SRD is struggling with the real issues of logging,oil and gas and thier impact on the fishery as well as overharvest of the cutthroat.

Fallentimber and Burnt Timber are part of the Red deer drainage which has been closed to harvest from the Gleniffer Reservoir upstream due to monitoring from last years oil spill near Sundre. There are no native cutts in this drainage.

What has changed in ES1 is the zero retention limit on rainbow / cutthroat in the Kananskis system (where the harvest of two brook trout and 5 whitefish is still allowed) and the addition of the upper Oldman above the Gap to total C&R to trout as well as all tribs down to Sec Hwy 510. You may still harvest 5 mountain whitefish daily. There are to my knowledge no fishable populations of brookies or browns in the upper Oldman.

And yes, I agree with you that the impacts of oil, gas and logging are real issues as well.

[Pikebreath]

If SRD declares all out war on non native rainbow trout in the ES1 region in an effort to save a handful of remnant populations of pure strain native cutthroat trout, the effect on our current recreational trout fisheries would be devastating. ES1 has some of the best wild trout stream fishing in Alberta (Canada for that matter) but it is a fishery supported by rainbows and rainbow / cutthroat hybrids.

As Barry Mitchell has so often said, "the cream is in the coffee already". To remove all the cream, would require getting rid of all the coffee and then brewing a new pot of black,,,, a process that could take decades to repopulate these streams from the few remnant headwater native strain cutts left. Let's hope SRD uses reason and doesn't "throw out the baby with the bathwater" as they develop plans to protect the few remaining pure strain cutts in this province.

[Bhflyfisher]

Well for starters. The native fish are not the problem. To have a balanced eco system you need a predator like the bull trout to eliminate the weaker fish. If native bull trout were around many years ago with the native cutts, what would the reason be for taking them out? They are not the problem. The thoughts of "bull trout eating all the cutts" is what put them on the endangered list in the first place. People were throwing them on the banks to die when they were caught. They were thought to be a menace. Bull trout dont just go around eating every fish they see in sight. If you've ever actually targeted bull trout you'd know thats not the case.

Rainbows, hybridize with cutthroat. No matter how long ago down the line the fish hybridized, they've lost any pure cutthroat that was left in them. So rainbows are a huge issue.

Now people not understanding the thing with brook trout. Not as many people realize the difference between brook and bull trout. Regardless whether you can distinguish the two or not, most people cant. Another key thing you need to realize, is that brook trout also do damage to the cutthroat population. Because they are the rabbits of the trout/char family. They mature at a very small size/young age, and are able to reproduce very quickly. They displace all other native fish. Brook trout should only be in closed systems in my mind "LAKES ONLY". They can ruin a population of any fish. Including the Native bull trout, that they can hybridize with. Stewardship licenses eliminate more trout then the average person would if there was a 5 fish limit on most streams, and a stewardship requires the ability of being able to distinguish a brook from a bull trout 100% of the time. This licenses eliminates the ignorance plead that poachers make when catching bull trout. "i thought it was a brook trout" what a big load of BULL . With a zero limit on brook trout and bull trout for those without the stewardship license, it eliminates that ignorance plee, and can really cause a crack down on poaching and charges.

Our native fish need to be protected in their watersheds. That includes westslope/eastslope cutthroat, athabasca rainbows, and bull trout. Removing native fish is the last thing that needs to be done to any ecosystem. If the fish were there hundreds of years ago thriving in balanced ecosystems without any human interference, there should not even be the thought of removing native fish.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by buckman

So many streams now have a 0 limit on all species to protect the cutthroat trout.

My observations are that the huge bull trout are taking more of them than anglers. Perhaps a few bulls should be allowed for trophy mounts. A tag system should work well.

I rarely keep a wild fish,but a fresh brook trout in the pan is a rare(now illegal) treat.

A few streams I fish both north and south of Calgary are full of brookies, surely any COMPITENT angler can easilly identify and tell the difference from a cutthroat/rainbow/brookie.

Even the whitefish are off limits. Your thoughts please.

Bull trout, cutthroats and mountain whitefish are all evolved to live together. Big bull trout get big eating whitefish versus trout.

Mountain whitefish harvesting during their spawning migration is a travesty of our fisheries management

Eat brookies till your full. I am personally fine with protecting bulls and cutts. Just wish whitefish had more chances to lay eggs.

[Don Andersen]

OK then,


Now anglers are yet again play the heavy in attempting to save another species.
Two issues:

1) why did it take until there was but 5 % of the pure strain cuts left before something was done?
2) what are the other "users" going to be doing to help. Some of the users would include loggers, oil/gas, cows, quads, poachers, predation. It is with noting that all the preceding responsibilities lie within SRD's mandate.

Don

[McLeod]

Its kinda like Duane Radford's article in this month's addition of Alberta Outdoorsmen...and I like his writing..always have... Yet he preaches this month about brook trout needing to be removed from cutty streams ect as well as suggesting that anglers should take i.d tests before being allowed to harvest..Yet Radford was the head of Alberta's fisheries for how long and never does he in his articles take responsibility for not addressing issues with cutties
when he was the boss but wants anglers to fix the problem today.

[honda450]

I fly fish the eastern slopes every summer. Mostly all cutties. A rainbow now and then. Now that its closed, no big deal never kept any anyhow. Don't like the taste either, good little fighter though.

Keep my eyes open this summer for infractions.

[goldscud]

Sundance, have a look at the new regs (guys with licences get them).
A number of streams upper reaches have protection for whitefish in the fall this year:
example
Highwood River
from headwaters downstream to Kananaskis Country Boundary & tributaries (except Storm Creek)
June 16 to Aug. 31 – Brook Trout limit 2; Other Trout limit 0; Mountain Whitefish limit 5 over 30 cm; Bait Ban.
Sept. 1 to Oct. 31 – Brook Trout limit 2; Other Trout limit 0; Mountain Whitefish limit 0; Bait Ban.

[g_trout]

Ignorance plea? I don't understand. If you did not release a bull claiming that you thought it was a brook, you don't get fined? The regs are laws. There is no ignorance plea and, if the ticket isn't issued, then it is an unbeleivable enforcement problem.

You think you can get out of a ticket for driving 100km/h in a school zone by saying "I couldn't tell it was a school zone"?

[the local angler]

i got the new regs last nite and read through the section on trout/whitefish being in trouble as everyone has stated. i was somewhat confused with the article, it mentions alot about the pure strain of cutts and such and which i agree i get so tired of seeing rainbows everywhere and was wondering so whats the deal with whitefish in trouble? the article doesnt mention a thing that i could see about what species of the whitefish. what waterbody its in trouble and such. could someone shed some light? is its specifically the rocky mountian whitefish thats in trouble? i am thinking maybe its in waterbodies i am not familiar with or dont fish.

[goldscud]

Yes, rocky mountain whitefish. Numbers in many Bow River and Oldman River tributaries are significantly lower than traditional populations. Protecting them when they are grouped up to spawn might/should help numbers along. There are probably more issues to consider than just angler harvest...but a new fishing rule is the easiest/cheapest place to start.

[the local angler]

i agree with what you said in fact i feel they should have all species spawning time closed till the spawn is over.i'm sure some will disagree but just my thought.

[g_trout]

I completely understand why SRD is trying to protect the Cutthroat. I don't completely understand the protection of Athabasca Rainbows IF, BIG IF, there is no genetic difference to the rainbows placed in the rest of the province. I haven't read if there is a difference.

What I don't understand if why, in the areas where cutthroats are being protected, the rainbow harvest is reduced or eliminated. The difference between a cutthroat and rainbow is pretty obvious. A Cutt-Bow cross breed gets mirky but isn't that one reason the cutthroat numbers are down? If the pure rainbows were reduced, heavily reduced, then pure cutthroat numbers would increase. No?

[goldscud]

It is easy for you to tell a Cutthroat from a rainbow....but for a large number of folks it is not. Some people can't tell a Bull trout from a rainbow (or don't want to). Government doesn't trust the general population to make the Cutt/Rainbow choice.