Shot placement question

[gitrdun]

Texas heart shot....all the way!

[moosehunter3-0]

Originally Posted by gitrdun

Texas heart shot....all the way!

X2, 1 in the chest running towards you, 2 in the ass running away.

[300magman]

Originally Posted by moosehunter3-0

X2, 1 in the chest running towards you, 2 in the ass running away.

hahahahahaha! I got a good laugh outta that one....i'll have to try that placement next year!

[KegRiver]

I shoot them wherever the bullet strikes.

Truth is most hunters will tell you they can hit the eye of a sparrow at 1,000 yards, while the best they can do is hope to hit somewhere on the body at ranges under 200 yards.

I can hit the kill zone, Heart Lung area, 99% of the time at ranges under 200 yards. Since that is the easiest target to hit, that is what I aim for.
I avoid shots at longer ranges. I'm simply not that good.
I haven't been hunting all that long, only 47 years now. Besides, I don't own one of those super guns. I use old fashioned equipment, like 30-06 and 30-30.
Such guns are only capable of hitting a one inch target at 100 yards under the very best of circumstances. (Good steady rest, lots of time to aim, ext.) For each additional 100 yards the target doubles in size. Many, if not most, hunting guns are doing good to hit a 2 inch target at 100 yards. Do the math.
Factor in an offhand shot, much less a hurried off hand shot, and mathematics tells me that a 14 inch target is a poor bet past 200 yards, at least for the typical hunter.

Think about it. If you aim for the shoulder, what you are actually aiming for is the upper leg bone. You are trying to hit a two inch wide target you can't even see. Or you could try for the shoulder Blade. That's a much bigger target, it's also a fools target. It will knock an animal flat. But the animal WILL get up again and they WILL be twice as hard to stop when they do.
I have done it, unintentionally, and I have watched others do it far too many times to try that shot intentionally.
Now some would argue that they are not trying to hit the leg bone, only the leg mussel. No kidding! So why not dump out half of your powder first and then shoot for the heart?
Or you could try for the back bone. It's a bigger target. But it's also hidden, and a miss would most likely result in a fatally wounded animal that will go for a very long way.

Now if you are one of those remarkable folks that can hit the eye of a sparrow at 1,000 yards, by all means go for the shoulder shot. Better still shoot them in the ear. If you're that good, it's the shot for you.
That was the shot of choice for us when we butchered a cow or other domestic animal. Instant death every time, and no loss of meat.

If you are an average hunter, I would suggest that the heart/lung shot is a better choice for you.

[PJT]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

I shoot them wherever the bullet strikes.

Truth is most hunters will tell you they can hit the eye of a sparrow at 1,000 yards, while the best they can do is hope to hit somewhere on the body at ranges under 200 yards.

I can hit the kill zone, Heart Lung area, 99% of the time at ranges under 200 yards. Since that is the easiest target to hit, that is what I aim for.
I avoid shots at longer ranges. I'm simply not that good.
I haven't been hunting all that long, only 47 years now. Besides, I don't own one of those super guns. I use old fashioned equipment, like 30-06 and 30-30.
Such guns are only capable of hitting a one inch target at 100 yards under the very best of circumstances. (Good steady rest, lots of time to aim, ext.) For each additional 100 yards the target doubles in size. Many, if not most, hunting guns are doing good to hit a 2 inch target at 100 yards. Do the math.
Factor in an offhand shot, much less a hurried off hand shot, and mathematics tells me that a 14 inch target is a poor bet past 200 yards, at least for the typical hunter.

Think about it. If you aim for the shoulder, what you are actually aiming for is the upper leg bone. You are trying to hit a two inch wide target you can't even see. Or you could try for the shoulder Blade. That's a much bigger target, it's also a fools target. It will knock an animal flat. But the animal WILL get up again and they WILL be twice as hard to stop when they do.
I have done it, unintentionally, and I have watched others do it far too many times to try that shot intentionally.
Now some would argue that they are not trying to hit the leg bone, only the leg mussel. No kidding! So why not dump out half of your powder first and then shoot for the heart?
Or you could try for the back bone. It's a bigger target. But it's also hidden, and a miss would most likely result in a fatally wounded animal that will go for a very long way.

Now if you are one of those remarkable folks that can hit the eye of a sparrow at 1,000 yards, by all means go for the shoulder shot. Better still shoot them in the ear. If you're that good, it's the shot for you.
That was the shot of choice for us when we butchered a cow or other domestic animal. Instant death every time, and no loss of meat.

If you are an average hunter, I would suggest that the heart/lung shot is a better choice for you.

Great answer

[equanuck]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

I shoot them wherever the bullet strikes.

Truth is most hunters will tell you they can hit the eye of a sparrow at 1,000 yards, while the best they can do is hope to hit somewhere on the body at ranges under 200 yards.

I can hit the kill zone, Heart Lung area, 99% of the time at ranges under 200 yards. Since that is the easiest target to hit, that is what I aim for.
I avoid shots at longer ranges. I'm simply not that good.
I haven't been hunting all that long, only 47 years now. Besides, I don't own one of those super guns. I use old fashioned equipment, like 30-06 and 30-30.
Such guns are only capable of hitting a one inch target at 100 yards under the very best of circumstances. (Good steady rest, lots of time to aim, ext.) For each additional 100 yards the target doubles in size. Many, if not most, hunting guns are doing good to hit a 2 inch target at 100 yards. Do the math.
Factor in an offhand shot, much less a hurried off hand shot, and mathematics tells me that a 14 inch target is a poor bet past 200 yards, at least for the typical hunter.

Think about it. If you aim for the shoulder, what you are actually aiming for is the upper leg bone. You are trying to hit a two inch wide target you can't even see. Or you could try for the shoulder Blade. That's a much bigger target, it's also a fools target. It will knock an animal flat. But the animal WILL get up again and they WILL be twice as hard to stop when they do.
I have done it, unintentionally, and I have watched others do it far too many times to try that shot intentionally.
Now some would argue that they are not trying to hit the leg bone, only the leg mussel. No kidding! So why not dump out half of your powder first and then shoot for the heart?
Or you could try for the back bone. It's a bigger target. But it's also hidden, and a miss would most likely result in a fatally wounded animal that will go for a very long way.

Now if you are one of those remarkable folks that can hit the eye of a sparrow at 1,000 yards, by all means go for the shoulder shot. Better still shoot them in the ear. If you're that good, it's the shot for you.
That was the shot of choice for us when we butchered a cow or other domestic animal. Instant death every time, and no loss of meat.

If you are an average hunter, I would suggest that the heart/lung shot is a better choice for you.

FTIW the OP asked for opinions of shot placement based upon "large & dangerous" game. You go on & on about about shots at or beyond 200yds... At 200yds nothings really dangerous, if it's moving don't shoot. If it's in the open there's probably no reason that you can't set up to have a stable shooting platform, whether that's prone, sitting down or resting against a tree. Shooting beyond 200yds is not all that difficult. The 2 basics are practice and patience.
Also BTW, I am a heart/lung shooter on animals I intend to eat. Bears get shot according to their distance, how they are positioned and what happens to be in my hands at the time.
Lastly, I disagree with your statement of what "WILL" happen with a shoulder shot animal. If you have enough gun and a good bullet a shoulder shot animal will not get up. There may be nothing left to eat but if I shoot a moose thru both front shoulders with any of my Weatherby's it will not be getting up.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by equanuck

FTIW If you have enough gun and a good bullet a shoulder shot animal will not get up. There may be nothing left to eat but if I shoot a moose thru both front shoulders with any of my Weatherby's it will not be getting up.

I had a client tell me that, almost word for word. The next day I watched as he fired three shots at a Black Bear. Broke both front legs, blew out one shoulder blade and drilled a huge hole through the upper neck.
I had to finish that Bear off. I carried a 30-06, he a 375 H&H Magnum.

It seems to me that a lot of folks put a lot of faith in one shot based on one or two lucky shots. While others put their faith in hand held cannons.
I put my faith in close range and careful shot placement.

But as I said, I'm not a professional.

How about you?

[209x50]

High shoulder everytime for me.

[Mike_W]

Shoulder shot for animals I don't intend to eat.....I don't hunt those kind.
Other than that behind the shoulder = dead bled out animal with minimal meat wastage, I have hit an animal in the shoulder by accident and I was not impressed with the meat damage and waste. Only shot a meat hunter should take is the one that waste the least amount of meat. Head shots are sweet nice clean animal just not a high percentage shot.

My 2 cents
MIke

[equanuck]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

I had a client tell me that, almost word for word. The next day I watched as he fired three shots at a Black Bear. Broke both front legs, blew out one shoulder blade and drilled a huge hole through the upper neck.
I had to finish that Bear off. I carried a 30-06, he a 375 H&H Magnum.

It seems to me that a lot of folks put a lot of faith in one shot based on one or two lucky shots. While others put their faith in hand held cannons.
I put my faith in close range and careful shot placement.

But as I said, I'm not a professional.

How about you?

LOL! Notice you didn't comment on any of the distance shooting and state that you're an up close shooter.
The fact that you write about a client for a black bear hunt tells me that the shooter probably did not have a whole lot of experience. That your client could break both front legs, 1 shoulder, put a huge hole in the neck.... and you still had to finish it off confirms that they could not shoot!
Professional? NO! Born and raised Northern Alberta farmer / oilfield / hunter. Put more than a few animals down over 30yrs of hunting. Certainly not 1 or 2 lucky shots.

[dogslayer403]

personally I think shot placement needs to be determined by what cartridge, bullet, and distance your shooting at. A.300wm with180gr at 350yards sure go for a shoulder. A .243 with 100gr probably not a good idea. There is to many variables to say what the best shot is but with enough gun a shoulder shot is the best bet to stop something in a hurry. Just my opinion.

[gitrdun]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

I had a client tell me that, almost word for word. The next day I watched as he fired three shots at a Black Bear. Broke both front legs, blew out one shoulder blade and drilled a huge hole through the upper neck.
I had to finish that Bear off. I carried a 30-06, he a 375 H&H Magnum.

It seems to me that a lot of folks put a lot of faith in one shot based on one or two lucky shots. While others put their faith in hand held cannons.
I put my faith in close range and careful shot placement.

But as I said, I'm not a professional.

How about you?

Keg, you had a client tell you this and that. Then you claim to not be a professional. Which is it that you want us to believe? Truly bud, if any of your statements are gonna hold water, don't contradict yourself in one and the same thread. Try and spread the BS so that some of us "eagle eyes" don't notice.

[big-river]

Keg River,
You nailed this one. Absolutely.
I am like you, very little hunting experience, only about 45 years. You have the jump on me.
I have killed grizzlies, brown bears, and far far too many black bears to count. Guided many many more.
I hunt with a 30-06 most days.
I have followed far too many blood trails from sports who knew about the magical kill zone in the shoulders, or fellows who figured they could slide one in quartering away up into the off shoulder.
Never followed a lung/heart shot bear very far, and always had good blood to do so.
Did see a couple bears drop instantly from a high shoulder shot, but I saw far more bears leave town on the quick from guys who missed this magic spot with their magnums. By the way, why do we know that a broken shoulder is a wound, and these other fellows figure they will anchor their bear? Don;t they know a bear doesn't hang around long wounded, they can cover ground pronto. So hard to get in a good follow up shot on a running bear. I did see some wounded bears shot thru both shoulders a couple times, pathetic sight, them pushing their front ends with their back ends, trying their best to get away. Seems foolish to shoot them anywhere else except the chest. Plus for those saving meat, the lung shot animals bleed out so much better.
I never did figure out the fuss of all these guys trying to re-invent the wheel and finding new and improved places to shoot animals. Dad tells me that back in his day, there was always some dude trying to tell everyone to shoot their moose in the hump, it would knock it down quick. True enough, but he failed to mention that they would usually leave right after.
Oh well.
Anyways, Keg River, I figure we are right on this issue, but with only about 100 years of hunting experience between us, what the hell would we know anyways?

[elkhunter11]

no elk...i wouldnt call it high at all. in any post ive ever made about advocating a shoulder shot i have never said "high". f

Some people specifically included the word "high", as Chuck did, when he described the wound on the deer that they found.

[Redfrog]

WOW! I was gonna say I shoot the shoulder on dangerous game, but after reading all this I've decided to keep shooting the shoulder. It's worked for 50 years so far.

[u_cant_rope_the_wind]

Originally Posted by moosehunter3-0

X2, 1 in the chest running towards you, 2 in the ass running away.

Gotta agree its the only sportmans way of fair chase

[sheepguide]

Slightly quartering away, taking vitals and off shoulder. Or Broadside waiting for onside leg to step forward tucking bullet in close behind shoulder. I Dont like hitting lots of bone on entry unless I can be posative it will anchor the animal. An animal can go along ways with a smashed shoulder but there time is very limited with a hole in a vital organ.

The situation dictates my choice in shot, all situations are different. I shoot to kill immediately on any animal dangerous/large or not. I dont shoot worrying if im gunna waste a steak or not. I shoot for a clean humane kill.

SG

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by sheepguide

Slightly quartering away, taking vitals and off shoulder. Or Broadside waiting for onside leg to step forward tucking bullet in close behind shoulder.

Man you guys are good! Me? I'm just thinking "Stop shaking and try to hit it in the middle..." LOL

I guess one thing that bears discussing here is the distance being shot. I became a huge fan of the high shoulder shot after I started extending the ranges I shoot. The first advantage is that it allows for a fairly wide margain of error. In fact, it's a hard shot to screw up, other than completely missing which is much preferable to a non fatal hit. Second, the results are typically a drop on the spot response. This is important when shooting long ranges as it can take a fair amount of time to get to the scene of a hit when you have to walk a 1/2 kilometer or more. Even finding exactly where the animal was standing can be a challenge if there is no snow so walking to an animal that dropped on the spot is preferable. Anyhow, that's why I'm a fan of the high shoulder.

[Nait Hadya]

2500 dollar question. you did not indicate at what distance.a shoulder shot may not anchor a dangerous critter and they may still be able to cover a bit of ground before expiring. so, four very close quarters dangerous game,behind the ear,between eyes,neck,spine.

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

I guess one thing that bears discussing here is the distance being shot. I became a huge fan of the high shoulder shot after I started extending the ranges I shoot. The first advantage is that it allows for a fairly wide margain of error. In fact, it's a hard shot to screw up, other than completely missing which is much preferable to a non fatal hit. Second, the results are typically a drop on the spot response. This is important when shooting long ranges as it can take a fair amount of time to get to the scene of a hit when you have to walk a 1/2 kilometer or more. Even finding exactly where the animal was standing can be a challenge if there is no snow so walking to an animal that dropped on the spot is preferable. Anyhow, that's why I'm a fan of the high shoulder.

Must have copied that down from a Best of The West episode LOL sounds word for word from one of their speeches!

SG

[5575]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

I guess one thing that bears discussing here is the distance being shot. I became a huge fan of the high shoulder shot after I started extending the ranges I shoot. The first advantage is that it allows for a fairly wide margain of error. In fact, it's a hard shot to screw up, other than completely missing which is much preferable to a non fatal hit. Second, the results are typically a drop on the spot response. This is important when shooting long ranges as it can take a fair amount of time to get to the scene of a hit when you have to walk a 1/2 kilometer or more. Even finding exactly where the animal was standing can be a challenge if there is no snow so walking to an animal that dropped on the spot is preferable. Anyhow, that's why I'm a fan of the high shoulder.

I couldn't agree more, high shoulder with a magnum powered rifle and thier head has to catch up with thier ars most of the time they drop that fast in thier tracks.I think the hydrostatic shock on the spinal cord system just shuts everything down like a light switch. At least that what happens when I hit them high with my STW. And no I'm not talking spine shot, just under it or where the spine meets the neck is good also. I get a kick out of the guys shooting those little southern deer and they run off almost every time.