Grizz in southern Alberta

[Jamie]

I took the chance tonight to speak with a FW officer. He is heavely involved with G Bears in southern Alberta.

A few things that were mentioned.
-WAY WAY more Grizz than what are being said
-They are counting them wrong, the proper way is to assign 2 officers to a specific zone for one spring/Summer/Fall. He promised they would know each and every bear in the area come Winter
-Hunters did a great thing, for the most part the were responsible for killing the bears down low that became `problem`bears
-Bears do not need all the area that the so called experts say they need.
-Bears are adaptable to roads and other intrusions

Interesting conversation, to bad the higher ups are slaves to uninformed public oppinion. Listen to the guys in the field, especially those that chase the Great bear for living.

Jamie

[Albertadiver]

Hey thanks Jamie,

This is anecdotol that a lot of folks know by first-hand knowledge. Interesting to see it reinforced by the people who are in the trenches so-to-speak.


I knew it wasn't the same bear I've seen over and over again this past summer in K-country!

[Frans]

There are at least three of them in K-country, because I saw them all within a 90 minute time period! :-)

F.

[blackmamba]

this year alone me and my sheep hunting partner seen 9 grizz s . and for sure they were all different bears ,we got some pretty cool pics of them .. I ll see if he can post them ..

[hayseed]

Jamie, was the count just in K-country... 2 officers per specific zone... thats awesome..??

If its 1 zone.

People on here ... tell the story, and every where ta boot,... we outdoorsmen only have a feel for how many bears are out there,and where these bears call home.

Would love to hear some more.. but that info may be privy to.....??

Just wondering .. are there some g/bear counts being still done??

[Jamie]

Originally Posted by hayseed

Jamie, was the count just in K-country... 2 officers per specific zone... thats awesome..??

If its 1 zone.

People on here ... tell the story, and every where ta boot,... we outdoorsmen only have a feel for how many bears are out there,and where these bears call home.

Would love to hear some more.. but that info may be privy to.....??

Just wondering .. are there some g/bear counts being still done??

Hayseed.. No, no inside info, just passing on a conversation with someone on the ground.
The way he was describing the 2 people per zone was to divvy up a specific WMU with each team taking into account the fact the bears will move. He was speaking of the Crowsnest pass where the Dogs are used to chase out the Grizz and Black bears.

I did like the Bear feeding program. It keeps Bears out of the cattle by using Road kill up in the high country. But after my experiences in Alaska.. Being more than limited that is. It seems the big boars climb down out of the high stuff, down to the ocean and all the while it gets them in shape. I would hate to think by feeding them up high we keep them out of shape for the rigors of living in the mountains.. Lots of variables

Jamie

[Grizzly Adams]

I think Jamie, you're preaching to the converted. Now, if we can arrange some close up, personal encounters for the doubters, we might get somewhere.
Grizz

[duffy4]

Originally Posted by Jamie

I took the chance tonight to speak with a FW officer. He is heavely involved with G Bears in southern Alberta.

A few things that were mentioned.
-WAY WAY more Grizz than what are being said
-They are counting them wrong, the proper way is to assign 2 officers to a specific zone for one spring/Summer/Fall. He promised they would know each and every bear in the area come Winter
-Hunters did a great thing, for the most part the were responsible for killing the bears down low that became `problem`bears
-Bears do not need all the area that the so called experts say they need.
-Bears are adaptable to roads and other intrusions

Interesting conversation, to bad the higher ups are slaves to uninformed public oppinion. Listen to the guys in the field, especially those that chase the Great bear for living.

Jamie

It is interesting that when we want a grizzly season opened we will listen to anyone who says there are lots and not listen to anyone who says there are not lots.

[Albertadiver]

Originally Posted by duffy4

It is interesting that when we want a grizzly season opened we will listen to anyone who says there are lots and not listen to anyone who says there are not lots.

I personally don't care if there is a grizzly season or not. I'm not a bear hunter. But I do believe based on my own personal experiances that there are a heck of a lot more grizzlies in Alberta than what the tree hugging fear mongers are saying. Maybe I'm just special and have some sort of a bear magnet built into me?

[Matt L.]

I'm not a bear hunter either. But I also feel that the grizzly numbers are higher than what the far-removed anti's say. And personaly, I'll take the word of a F&W officer whose job is grizzlies over an anti who goes to the backcountry once a year if at all.

[Tuc]

It is interesting that when we want a grizzly season opened we will listen to anyone who says there are lots and not listen to anyone who says there are not lots.

Duff, I think you hit the nail on the head!

[Matt L.]

The problem is, is that a lot of the anti-hunters spew pure nonsense; as do far too many pro-hunters. Personally, I'll take an F&W field officer over both.

[tbosch]

Originally Posted by Matt L.

I'm not a bear hunter either. But I also feel that the grizzly numbers are higher than what the far-removed anti's say. And personaly, I'll take the word of a F&W officer whose job is grizzlies over an anti who goes to the backcountry once a year if at all.

Ran in to two of them in the crowsnest last year in the fall. Buddy saw three around canmore during the elk hunt this year. Another friend of mine saw what he thought was four different bears in one day around grand cache area.

[Rocks]

Originally Posted by duffy4

It is interesting that when we want a grizzly season opened we will listen to anyone who says there are lots and not listen to anyone who says there are not lots.

I don't think I see that happening here. What I do see is the GBRT's survey numbers are coming in lower than what outdoorsmen are actually seeing. I mean if I used to see lots of grizz and then weren't seeing as many the last couple years, I might say, ya this survey makes sense. But people are seeing the opposite.

There are areas that I hunt where ungulate populations are at a low. I know this because I don't see many anymore. I also have biologists telling me the same thing, so my personal experience is reflected by the "experts". But that is not the case with the grizz, and that is why people are questioning the numbers.

[Jamie]

Originally Posted by duffy4

It is interesting that when we want a grizzly season opened we will listen to anyone who says there are lots and not listen to anyone who says there are not lots.

Well Duffy.. The guy I was listening to has the job of running those Dogs down in the Crowsnest.. I dont think he is just "ANYONE"
I know he is the guy down on the ground doing the dirty work.. And every bloody day of his life is dedicated to running these bears out of danger.

Who else would you have me listen to?? This is straight from the horses mouth and this horse has nothing to gain.

Jamie

[duffy4]

Jamie
The officer may have a lot of experience and knowledge about his small corner of Alverta's Grizzly bear habitat. Many who post on here talk about their little area they hunt, fish or recreate and how many bears they see. But the Grizzly bear study and population estimate is for all of the grizzly bear habitat in the province. It is the BIG PICTURE.

There are areas with good bear habitat and lots of bears, I don't see anyone denying that. But you can't say "I saw 9 bears in this one area so there must be lots of bears everywhere."

You have to look at the whole forest and not just the trees in front of your face. If you take my meaning.

There may be "anti hunters" supporting the Provincial bear population estimate because it furthers their agenda. But the anti hunters are NOT the ones doing the pop estimate.

[bowchaser]

well Duffy when you add up everyone's little corner, it equals a whole lot of the province. And their study does not reflect the entire province, only the south as they have said there are no grizz in the northern part of the province. If they actually funded the study properly to use a realistic type of test and did the whole province then said they were near endangered, we'd have no argument. But to make general assumptions on the overall population with flawed data, is irresponsible at best.

[Vindalbakken]

Originally Posted by duffy4

But the anti hunters are NOT the ones doing the pop estimate.

Explain to me how they are different?

[Jamie]

Originally Posted by duffy4

Jamie
The officer may have a lot of experience and knowledge about his small corner of Alverta's Grizzly bear habitat. Many who post on here talk about their little area they hunt, fish or recreate and how many bears they see. But the Grizzly bear study and population estimate is for all of the grizzly bear habitat in the province. It is the BIG PICTURE.

There are areas with good bear habitat and lots of bears, I don't see anyone denying that. But you can't say "I saw 9 bears in this one area so there must be lots of bears everywhere."

You have to look at the whole forest and not just the trees in front of your face. If you take my meaning.

There may be "anti hunters" supporting the Provincial bear population estimate because it furthers their agenda. But the anti hunters are NOT the ones doing the pop estimate.

Duffy thats funny becouse he used your example of why those counts do not work and the fact the only people who can really get a good count in southern ALberta is the dedicated team idea.

Jamie

[spurly]

I live in the Crows Nest Pass , been here almost 50 yrs , I know John, and Kirk ,personaly They are the c/o's who run the dogs.they know we have a bear problem, but they can't do much on their own. It comes down to the word of biologists who don't even live here or deal with the daily problems.Ask any hunter from the Pass, and they will tell you there are too many bears, but the biologist don't beleive it.The bait staitions that were put up, were set up with the wind blowing away from the basins instead of blowing into the basins where the bears are.Depending on who is paying , you can get whatever you like for results.The study was also done at a time of year when the bears are more dispersed, rather than in the fall when it is easier to predict where the bears will be.or in the spring when they are more likely to visit bait stations.Talk to some of the ranchers in the foothills or hunters from 400,402 302 ,and 306, ask them about grizzlies.The tree huggers say the grizzlies are being pushed out of their normal habitat because of too much access, but it is because the bigger bears are , claiming the prime habitat and pushing out the smaller bears.Like I said before when you pay for a study you canget any result you would like to hear.

[Grizzly Adams]

Originally Posted by duffy4

Jamie
The officer may have a lot of experience and knowledge about his small corner of Alverta's Grizzly bear habitat. Many who post on here talk about their little area they hunt, fish or recreate and how many bears they see. But the Grizzly bear study and population estimate is for all of the grizzly bear habitat in the province. It is the BIG PICTURE.

There are areas with good bear habitat and lots of bears, I don't see anyone denying that. But you can't say "I saw 9 bears in this one area so there must be lots of bears everywhere."

You have to look at the whole forest and not just the trees in front of your face. If you take my meaning.

There may be "anti hunters" supporting the Provincial bear population estimate because it furthers their agenda. But the anti hunters are NOT the ones doing the pop estimate.

Well Duffy, anecdotal evidence may not be acceptable to the scientific mind, but it's a FACT, that the sow and three cubs, that killed the hunter near here, last fall, were not included, in the count, nor were researchers counting bears, outside the Green zone. Four bears may not sound like a lot, but given the numbers involved it is significant and indicates that there are obviously errors, in the count.
Grizz

[pottymouth]

The study does not include the parks like banff/jasper/waterton nor does it include any foothills area's .That's the problem with the study done. It states that there is only 240 some grizz i dentified by DNA. But the study was only done along hwy 40 from the southern most point of the Hwy north along the 40 up to Hwy 16(i guess bears don't know how to cross hwy 16, and don't like staying where they are protected in the parks) A various "stratigic " points the Dna traps where set up no more than 1 km and no less than just outside the ditch,of the Hwy in either direction east and west of Hwy 40. Places like where the 2 hunters got killed and the fisherman got mauled, according to the study are either yellow or white zones. Yellow = the odd bear will walk through but not live or stay long and white= no such thing as grizz in this area. So it's my feeling that this study is a bunch of B.S. Epsecially cause i seen more Grizz this year than sheep.

im doing a study myself this year...........................So far in all my permissions (9 of them, close to 16 square km) in 212 i've only found 1 shed..........If this is anything like the grizz study then i guess i'm gonna quit hunting here.

1 mule deer
0 whitetail
0 elk
0 moose.

P.s and anyone who has pictures of more than that mule deer in that zone is lying or photoshoping!!!

[albertadave]

Originally Posted by spurly

The tree huggers say the grizzlies are being pushed out of their normal habitat because of too much access, but it is because the bigger bears are , claiming the prime habitat and pushing out the smaller bears.Like I said before when you pay for a study you canget any result you would like to hear.

You're bang on spurly IMHO. If the bears are leaving their normal, prefered, habitat because of increased access and to get away from people, as the treehuggers claim, why would they be showing up in more populated areas (ie Bergen, Milk River) on a regular basis? Doesn't make sense.

[James Henry]

Hey Jamie,
I was exploring a newly forrested road in the Sundre area in November and ran into a gentleman hunting with his wife. He relayed the same info as you stated here. Knowing the government would'nt intentionally mislead us, I thought he was blowin' wind. He then told me of his secret spot to get decent whitetail...I shot a 4 pointer shortly thereafter. Guess its the government blowin' wind.

[duffy4]

Can someone please explain something to me? Why would the Alberta Government want to shut down the grizzly hunt and "mislead" people as to the numbers of Grizzlies in Alberta?

[Jamie]

Duffy, I dont think its a matter of the Gov wanting to mislead the public.
I think they are mistaken and have been taken in by a counting method that looks good at first blush, but yet is not effective.

The fact you have guys like ****ant yapping in the papers every time I turn around doesnt help.

They need a more effective way of counting these animals. I really think that F/W officer was on to something.

On a side note, he didnt think there would be a way to count the Grizz up in the Chinchaga due to the density of the bush.

Jamie

[Coltprins]

They are trying to please the tree huggers, so the hunters end up getting shafted. When the antis want something they get it becuase they make a big scene and make the government look bad.

[rhino]

I think as always the answer is money, theres more funding in saying the bears are endangered than saying populations are heathy.Biologists who work on contract, counting bears, don't keep working if numbers are healthy. Special interest groups like the W.W.F. who have been running the program about the collared bear in Hinton (who was everyones friend) for years, quit getting the sympathy cash.
I believe the ground floor fish cops do know there's more bears but they do not supply D.N.A. samples of problem bears except in extreme cases to the Bio's, this makes no sense to me. If you want to know numbers get everyone involved, ranchers ,sportsmen,C.O.'s, beekeepers etc. We can all collect hair samples.

[pogo]

Eventually, when a bear eats somebody important enough, that'll be enough bears. Who would you like to see go first?

[Dark Wing]

Our local bear expert was telling me the other day that problem bears are shot on the spot. Their running out of areas to dump them. Maybe we should start shipping them to Rotten Monkey House.