Bighorn country park

[Huk]

You'll have to forgive my vehement disagreement.

I hate the NDP probably more than most but that was good work they did in the Castle. It was Yahoo city in the summer and during hunting season. OHV nutbars chasing animals all over the place. I would even say there are too many trails that still allow OHV use.

Heaven forbid we have a few places where it takes a little bit of exercise to get into where you can actually interact with nature without hearing the whine of a dirt bike or have trails rutted up everywhere.

And let me point out, you go north across highway 3 and there is basically unlimited quad access in good country still available.

[Scott N]

Originally Posted by Huk

You'll have to forgive my vehement disagreement.

I hate the NDP probably more than most but that was good work they did in the Castle. It was Yahoo city in the summer and during hunting season. OHV nutbars chasing animals all over the place. I would even say there are too many trails that still allow OHV use.

Heaven forbid we have a few places where it takes a little bit of exercise to get into where you can actually interact with nature without hearing the whine of a dirt bike or have trails rutted up everywhere.

And let me point out, you go north across highway 3 and there is basically unlimited quad access in good country still available.

I think the bottom line for the problem in this area has always been enforcement, or more specifically, lack of. I've spent a lot of time in that area going back to the early 80s, and rarely, if ever, is law enforcement present. 99% of the time that I've seen enforcement in the area has been at Beaver Mines Lake, checking for fishing licenses.

[JDK71]

for me the lack of the rangers/law started in the west country Sundre and Caroline was the late 80s

[JDK71]

it use to keep all in line when the green ranger truck would pull in once or twice a weekend and walk around and check camp and plates

[bdub]

The sheep hunting or fishing or any hunting for that matter sure as hell won't get any better without reduced access, that's a given. I hope they leave the reduced access in the Castle alone and I was hoping they would have continued with reducing ATV access further in the 400s because I am a sheep hunter. Reduced access equals better hunting.

[Huk]

Originally Posted by bdub

The sheep hunting or fishing or any hunting for that matter sure as hell won't get any better without reduced access, that's a given. I hope they leave the reduced access in the Castle alone and I was hoping they would have continued with reducing ATV access further in the 400s because I am a sheep hunter. Reduced access equals better hunting.

I wouldn't even call it reduced access. You can still go in on horseback or on a mountain bike or just burn some boot leather. It's just reduced engines. Guys would be amazed at how much more game they'd see if they burned some calories instead of gasoline.

I should clarify it's fine to have areas (as we do) where you can ride your OHV to your heart's content. It's not too much to ask to have a few more zones where they aren't allowed.

[timsesink]

I hope it's not a complete dumping of the plan but rather an exstensive overhaul and re-implementation. As someone who uses that area extensively there is some need of further protections and enforcement.

[TheIceTitan]

Originally Posted by Huk

I wouldn't even call it reduced access. You can still go in on horseback or on a mountain bike or just burn some boot leather. It's just reduced engines. Guys would be amazed at how much more game they'd see if they burned some calories instead of gasoline.

I should clarify it's fine to have areas (as we do) where you can ride your OHV to your heart's content. It's not too much to ask to have a few more zones where they aren't allowed.

Agree 100%. The Bighorn proposal, particularly north of Abraham Lake, would prevent motorized access into areas that don't currently have any anyway, while not at all changing the hunting opportunities in these areas.

[RZR]

Originally Posted by Huk

You'll have to forgive my vehement disagreement.

I hate the NDP probably more than most but that was good work they did in the Castle. It was Yahoo city in the summer and during hunting season. OHV nutbars chasing animals all over the place. I would even say there are too many trails that still allow OHV use.

Heaven forbid we have a few places where it takes a little bit of exercise to get into where you can actually interact with nature without hearing the whine of a dirt bike or have trails rutted up everywhere.

And let me point out, you go north across highway 3 and there is basically unlimited quad access in good country still available.

That's funny I spend a lot of time in 400 and have hardly ever seen anybody back in there. As far as going north of highway 3 the trails have all been closed there as well. That was a bang up job that Phillips did, sure glad she's gone. There was still great hunting in 400 when the trails open.

[59whiskers]

I have hunted 400 lots over 40 years and never seen anybody chasing animals all over the place on OHV,s, ever.

[bdub]

Originally Posted by 59whiskers

I have hunted 400 lots over 40 years and never seen anybody chasing animals all over the place on OHV,s, ever.

I don't think the issue is anyone chasing animals all over with ATV's. I don't think that is really an issue anywhere. The issue is ease of access equals poorer hunting. Harder access equals better hunting. It's a tradeoff.

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by bdub

I don't think the issue is anyone chasing animals all over with ATV's. I don't think that is really an issue anywhere. The issue is ease of access equals poorer hunting. Harder access equals better hunting. It's a tradeoff.

How does it equal poorer hunting?
The same animals are there?
Maybe if there’s more unregulated harvesters I could see it
Otherwise I don’t see how it would change

[RZR]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

How does it equal poorer hunting?
The same animals are there?
Maybe if there’s more unregulated harvesters I could see it
Otherwise I don’t see how it would change

Nothing changes, it's just bdub's way of arguing to keep other user groups out of area's that he feels are only for his best interests even though he doesn't hunt this area.

[bdub]

Originally Posted by RZR

Nothing changes, it's just bdub's way of arguing to keep other user groups out of area's that he feels are only for his best interests even though he doesn't hunt this area.

Your right nothing changes RZR. Your flapping off about something you don't know anything about again. I've hunted that country a ton in the past and plan on hunting it again in the future. I imagine the most you know about that country is what you can discover from the seat of you ATV RZR.

[Huk]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

How does it equal poorer hunting?
The same animals are there?
Maybe if there’s more unregulated harvesters I could see it
Otherwise I don’t see how it would change

If you don't think animals act differently or leave areas due to pressure you haven't spent enough time around them.

Assume you're in an area with animals. Picture 10 dudes walking around vs the noise of 10 quads. Do you really think in both cases animal behaviour is going to be identical?

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by Huk

If you don't think animals act differently or leave areas due to pressure you haven't spent enough time around them.

Assume you're in an area with animals. Picture 10 dudes walking around vs the noise of 10 quads. Do you really think in both cases animal behaviour is going to be identical?

I’ve driven up to more animals on my quad than I’ve walked up to

Spent more than my fair share of time in the bush

That’s why I’m asking

[bdub]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

How does it equal poorer hunting?
The same animals are there?
Maybe if there’s more unregulated harvesters I could see it
Otherwise I don’t see how it would change

There are plenty of studies that explain games reaction to roads and vehicle access, increased hunting pressure, disturbance from helicopters, etc, etc. It affects how game uses the landscape. It also has different effects depending on the species of game. Instead of saying "I don't see how it would change", why don't you do a little research on your own Mark and come up with an educated opinion.

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by bdub

There are plenty of studies that explain games reaction to roads and vehicle access, increased hunting pressure, disturbance from helicopters, etc, etc. It affects how game uses the landscape. It also has different effects depending on the species of game. Instead of saying "I don't see how it would change", why don't you do a little research on your own Mark and come up with an educated opinion.

Well up until the ndp came into power this was the way that it was.
I’m sure the harvest numbers haven’t gone up since castle was pushed through or since the changes to the bighorn started
Show me these studies
How come there’s tons of animals on active military bases
I’m sure the helicopters tanks and live rockets are quiet
Nice try

[ram crazy]

Originally Posted by bdub

There are plenty of studies that explain games reaction to roads and vehicle access, increased hunting pressure, disturbance from helicopters, etc, etc. It affects how game uses the landscape. It also has different effects depending on the species of game. Instead of saying "I don't see how it would change", why don't you do a little research on your own Mark and come up with an educated opinion.

Well if your using a helicopter, that's not a atv and of course the use of helicopters affects game. I've sat on hill sides and watched ATV's ride right by Elk and the Elk don't act any differently than before the atv rode by them.

[Huk]

Originally Posted by 59whiskers

I have hunted 400 lots over 40 years and never seen anybody chasing animals all over the place on OHV,s, ever.

Let me clarify. When i say chasing I mean pushing and causing the animals to leave areas they would otherwise be or be far less active during the daylight hours.

The guys on OHVs would not have any idea they're pushing animals, they probably never see a single one!

But as a person who hunts using his legs I have busted my ass to get into places, sat down to glass, seen animals and watched them book at the sound of engines. It's a fact no matter how much you don't like it.

I intentionally steer clear of areas quads are allowed to go. The hunting is far better. Fact. In my humble opinion we could use more areas where OHVs are not allowed.

You've been hunting 400 for 40 years then you'll know the difference between the morning of September 16th and the morning of the 17th. Animals behave differently. Even with the trail closures it was a zoo in the easy to access places. The new regs are a MASSIVE improvement.

[Husty]

Originally Posted by Huk

The guys on OHVs would not have any idea they're pushing animals, they probably never see a single one!

.

Whats your opinion on guys who use an OHV to get far back in the bush then hike around for game? I like to do that, but no way am I packing an elk out 20km to the nearest road on foot.. its not fun. I did that when I shot my bull elk 12km to the nearest road, it was a long, miserable night, with the old man helping me. What are your thoughts on the 'lazy' guys who use horses to get into the bush, now that its one of the only viable ways to get far back into these parks to haul out game? Do you think its fair they can use a horse to pack in and out game but guys who use OHV's are out of luck?

I know a guy that uses a helicopter for remote hunts in the states, now thats unfair

To me its about fair access to Crown-land.

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by Husty

Whats your opinion on guys who use an OHV to get far back in the bush then hike around for game? I like to do that, but no way am I packing an elk out 20km to the nearest road on foot.. its not fun. I did that when I shot my bull elk 12km to the nearest road, it was a long, miserable night, with the old man helping me. What are your thoughts on the 'lazy' guys who use horses to get into the bush, now that its one of the only viable ways to get far back into these parks to haul out game? Do you think its fair they can use a horse to pack in and out game but guys who use OHV's are out of luck?

I know a guy that uses a helicopter for remote hunts in the states, now thats unfair

To me its about fair access to Crown-land.

Exactly

You hit the nail on the head here

[marky_mark]

If you want to go for a hike go to wilmore

[Huk]

Originally Posted by Husty

Whats your opinion on guys who use an OHV to get far back in the bush then hike around for game? I like to do that, but no way am I packing an elk out 20km to the nearest road on foot.. its not fun. I did that when I shot my bull elk 12km to the nearest road, it was a long, miserable night, with the old man helping me. What are your thoughts on the 'lazy' guys who use horses to get into the bush, now that its one of the only viable ways to get far back into these parks to haul out game? Do you think its fair they can use a horse to pack in and out game but guys who use OHV's are out of luck?

I know a guy that uses a helicopter for remote hunts in the states, now thats unfair

To me its about fair access to Crown-land.

Like I said, there's no problem with having areas where quads are fully allowed, or partially allowed. So long as there is sufficient area where they're prohibited.

The Bob Creek is like that. Designated trails all up the west side. During hunting season guys quad in, set up camp and pound the hills on foot. Nothing wrong with it, much respect to them. All of the north west corner, center and eastern side are off limits. It's a good mix. The side with quad access gets hammered and I can choose to hunt everywhere else. Everyone wins.

I have no problem with guys using horses. It's still tough work. Horses are not low maintenance. But the best thing about horses vs OHVs is they don't emit a loud obnoxious noise, so they are easy to coexist with in hunting season when I'm sharing the mountain with them. I've hunted the same elk as dudes that came in on horseback. It was great. I have no doubt that if they'd ridden OHVs up the ridge every morning nobody would have had the pleasure of staring at a massive herd of elk all weekend.

So long story short yeah I think it's fair to use horses as you aren't negatively impacting all the other dudes out there. Can't say the same for OHVs.

We definitely agree on the helicopter unless you're using it to fly into an otherwise inaccessible spot and staying for a week to hunt on foot. I have designs on a fly in Alaska caribou trip one day and I'd be lying if I said I thought it was unfair.

I had the heli option when I was living in New Zealand but it just felt like cheating. Every animal I shot on public land came out on foot and involved copious amounts of suffering, which is kind of how it's supposed to be in my view. I think the fact that I'm willing to pack heavy loads in gnarly terrain means I earned the right to hunt less pressured animals and I get a sense of pride from it.

I'm sure when you got done packing your bull 12 km you felt a massive sense of accomplishment, and as well you friggin should. You earned every bit of it.

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by Huk

Like I said, there's no problem with having areas where quads are fully allowed, or partially allowed. So long as there is sufficient area where they're prohibited.

The Bob Creek is like that. Designated trails all up the west side. During hunting season guys quad in, set up camp and pound the hills on foot. Nothing wrong with it, much respect to them. All of the north west corner, center and eastern side are off limits. It's a good mix. The side with quad access gets hammered and I can choose to hunt everywhere else. Everyone wins.

I have no problem with guys using horses. It's still tough work. Horses are not low maintenance. But the best thing about horses vs OHVs is they don't emit a loud obnoxious noise, so they are easy to coexist with in hunting season when I'm sharing the mountain with them. I've hunted the same elk as dudes that came in on horseback. It was great. I have no doubt that if they'd ridden OHVs up the ridge every morning nobody would have had the pleasure of staring at a massive herd of elk all weekend.

So long story short yeah I think it's fair to use horses as you aren't negatively impacting all the other dudes out there. Can't say the same for OHVs.

We definitely agree on the helicopter unless you're using it to fly into an otherwise inaccessible spot and staying for a week to hunt on foot. I have designs on a fly in Alaska caribou trip one day and I'd be lying if I said I thought it was unfair.

I had the heli option when I was living in New Zealand but it just felt like cheating. Every animal I shot on public land came out on foot and involved copious amounts of suffering, which is kind of how it's supposed to be in my view. I think the fact that I'm willing to pack heavy loads in gnarly terrain means I earned the right to hunt less pressured animals and I get a sense of pride from it.

I'm sure when you got done packing your bull 12 km you felt a massive sense of accomplishment, and as well you friggin should. You earned every bit of it.

Helicopters are utilized on almost every hunt in the nwt for dalls
Only thing it’s done is open more opportunities because you can access areas that were not reachable
And you can target mature rams only since your opportunities have gone up
The sheep and goats are still there, they didn’t magically evaporate when they heard a chopper
The problem is that your risking an entire animals going sour because you want feel like a mountain man and haul it out on your back. Check your ego and man bun at the door! If you liked the way you did it in New Zealand than its pretty simple, just move back there and do it...

[jednastka]

Originally Posted by Huk

You'll have to forgive my vehement disagreement.

I hate the NDP probably more than most but that was good work they did in the Castle. It was Yahoo city in the summer and during hunting season. OHV nutbars chasing animals all over the place. I would even say there are too many trails that still allow OHV use.

Heaven forbid we have a few places where it takes a little bit of exercise to get into where you can actually interact with nature without hearing the whine of a dirt bike or have trails rutted up everywhere.

And let me point out, you go north across highway 3 and there is basically unlimited quad access in good country still available.

Could not agree more.