NS "Lobster War"

[pinelakeperch]

Can someone provide their analysis on what's happening? I've read the news articles, but I was hoping to get a synopsis from someone either involved, or with close knowledge.

[riden]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-...ster-1.5701123



The Marshall case is from 1993 and 99, so there is nothing really new here. It's been illegal for First Nations to sell their lobster catch since 99. But, lobster pounds were charged as that was the easier route. This year the MigWaw (sic) decided they would start a commercial fishery that they would regulate, and issued tags for it. That is my take, otherwise lobster pounds will continue to get charged, as per the link I posted.

The Marshall decision in 99 clarified a point that the crown was asking. Can the Feds regulate the Indigenous Fishery, and the answer was yes, but it had to be justified.

Two big issues here :
#1 what is a moderate income today. Donald Marshall was fishing eels and was selling them for about 25 cents a pound. (I looked the price up, but I can't promise I am right) Today it costs a million to get into the lobster fishery and the present moderate fishery fishers, likely have close to half a million in gear including the boat. Is that part of a moderate income fishery.

#2 IMO, the media doesn't want to touch this one. The indigenous fishery fishes during spawn. I find it hard to believe they do that. When you see the signs saying "There are seasons for a reason" that's what they mean. Should the Feds regulate that? Some say yes, they shouldn't be allowed.

One last thing. Many Indigenous see Donald Marshall 2 as a political decision, not an honest Supreme Court decision, and want to ignore it's ruling. I read this morning that they didn't want DFO involved, but DFO are the ones who would be regulating this.


IMO this is such a mess because small maritime towns AND proponents of Indigenous rights BOTH vote Liberal, so Trudeau wants nothing to do with it.


I will add, I am in no way condoning arson or violence. But you don't need to be a rocket scientist to know this was going to blow up. These small maritime towns need a lobster fishery to survive and the Feds have had a non-existent presence, fearing political fall out.

[58thecat]

Tensions have been mounting between Indigenous and non-Indigenous fishers since Mi'kmaw fishers began a lobster fishing operation outside of the federally designated season in September.
According to a 1999 Supreme Court decision, they have a treaty-protected right to catch and sell lobster to earn a moderate livelihood.....dam now if I made a living fishing and seen my livelihood deteriorate over the years because another gets to "abuse" the season I too would be upset...maybe enough is enough and giving what the world, country has accepted as in rioting, acts of violence etc what would you expect.....this stems from all not being treated equally...as Canadians and nothing more or less....

[schmedlap]

Indeed, being from NS originally, I can understand the anger of the legal lobster fishermen. Some further facts seem relevant.
Until very strict regulation of seasons, sizes, quotas, and licensing came in several decades ago and was actually enforced, the fishery and lobster population were in severe decline, due to the usual over-harvesting and indiscriminate retentions. The regulation of this fishery has been a rare example of unmitigated success in producing a sustainable and consistently profitable industry. Permitting any harvesting outside the correct seasons, areas, and quotas is bound to be a potential or very real disaster for the industry and local economies.
Apparently, according to historians/anthropologists who have researched this, the indigenous people of the Maritimes never fished for or ate lobster prior to the advent of a European fishery. They considered them dirty scavengers, in essence, and not fit for consumption. For whatever reason, they generally never even participated in the fishery, for sustenance or otherwise, after the colonists established it. They did harvest eels (the subject of the Marshall case) and other inshore fish and crustaceans. So, is it not kind of a stretch to label it as a traditional fishery? It may have gotten lumped in under the wide wording of the treaties, but was not likely intended to be included by either side.

[JDK71]

well they all picked red so we will just have to wait and see how there great leader helps cant wait to find out

[Twisted Canuck]

I'd give my analysis but I would be suspended or banned.

One thing I find interesting though....Perry Belgarde, the Grand Chief of FNs was going off the other day about the 'RCMP not doing their job!!!!'....because they didn't defend the property of the micmaq (sp?) Fisherman..but when the RCMP were out on the wetsuweten land, he was outraged they were actually there (doing their job), but then was happy they didn't do their job arresting the Mohawks who were blockading the railroad tracks, and outraged for how they handled Chief Adams in Ft. Mac....it must be so confusing for the RCMP.

So just as a helpful tip to the RCMP, that Bastian of 'systemic racism'....when you are protecting the FN while they are breaking the law, that's your job and it's good, but when you are actually doing your job upholding the law and it involves FN, that's bad. That is all.

[58thecat]

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...ngs-right.html

a good read on this.....seems to be an issue whether its taking game out here or lobster out there....why...I can answer that for both sides...spineless tip toe through the tulips governments/governing bodies for both sides....no one has the right, privilidge to hunt nor gather out of a regulated season or seasons which will benefit the game sought after and then we all can enjoy the bounty!.....imagine that eh!

[cody j]

Hate to say it but the ways things are heading we may be having a “moose war” here in the west sometime in the future. Hopefully that doesn’t happen.

[.264 Win Mag]

Funny how now they want the RCMP and military called in wonder what they would have to say if the military where called into to deal with the train blockades?? I am not shocked by the hypocrisy.

[Smoky buck]

Two tier system biased on race of course there is going to be problems

[Grizzly Adams]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

Two tier system biased on race of course there is going to be problems

x2.

Grizz

[bessiedog]

Indeed, being from NS originally, I can understand the anger of the legal lobster fishermen. Some further facts seem relevant.
Until very strict regulation of seasons, sizes, quotas, and licensing came in several decades ago and was actually enforced, the fishery and lobster population were in severe decline, due to the usual over-harvesting and indiscriminate retentions. The regulation of this fishery has been a rare example of unmitigated success in producing a sustainable and consistently profitable industry. Permitting any harvesting outside the correct seasons, areas, and quotas is bound to be a potential or very real disaster for the industry and local economies.
Apparently, according to historians/anthropologists who have researched this, the indigenous people of the Maritimes never fished for or ate lobster prior to the advent of a European fishery. They considered them dirty scavengers, in essence, and not fit for consumption. For whatever reason, they generally never even participated in the fishery, for sustenance or otherwise, after the colonists established it. They did harvest eels (the subject of the Marshall case) and other inshore fish and crustaceans. So, is it not kind of a stretch to label it as a traditional fishery? It may have gotten lumped in under the wide wording of the treaties, but was not likely intended to be included by either side.[/QUOTE]


Strange..... I’ve found different...

In fact I got a kid in Jr high that is checking this story out... and discovered that lobster was an important trade and food item for these people custom wise....

Apparently that bury it and let it ripen up a bit... then eat it.

..... and there’s like three treaties that specify hunting and fishing rights....

You can actually see the original parchment treaties via this link

https://mikmaqrights.com/negotiations/treaties/



You wouldn’t be jus makin stuff up now would ya...?


Should we just omit Rule of Law / contract law on this ‘cause we don likes it?’

Hmmmmmm

[Nayr]

Bottom line is harvesting rights can’t over ride conservation of a resource. The government should stop any fishing during spawning. You would think they wouldn’t have to. That’s like hunting cow moose right after they birth their calves.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by .264 Win Mag

Funny how now they want the RCMP and military called in wonder what they would have to say if the military where called into to deal with the train blockades?? I am not shocked by the hypocrisy.

Exactly! Either have the police respond to all illegal protests/vandalism, or be content when they do nothing for all.

[Sundancefisher]

In a nutshell.

Supreme Court in 1999 said FN could fish for a moderate living. Federal government has failed to define moderate living.

Heard area businesses refuse to deal with FN fishers.

FN are fishing during season spawning closure.

FN want to fish and sell lobster.
Commercial fishers what reasonable boundaries and fair sharing of the resource.
Commercial fishers want conservation measures followed by all versus a free for all.

My take.

[sk270]

It seems to me that a lot of the blame has to go to the successive Federal Governments. Just as in the case of the Wet'suwet'en land claims, they had a couple of decades from the court decision until now to settle this through negotiation, regulation, edict or whatever. Instead, the various federal agencies did little to avert this crisis.

[Bergerboy]

Does the term Lobster Pound make anyone else giggle?

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by Bergerboy

Does the term Lobster Pound make anyone else giggle?

Because it’s spawning time?

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by Nayr

Bottom line is harvesting rights can’t over ride conservation of a resource. The government should stop any fishing during spawning. You would think they wouldn’t have to. That’s like hunting cow moose right after they birth their calves.

spot on....this goes for all.

[sk270]

Originally Posted by .264 Win Mag

Funny how now they want the RCMP and military called in wonder what they would have to say if the military where called into to deal with the train blockades?? I am not shocked by the hypocrisy.

I think the RCMP have failed dismally and not done their duty in regards to both the blockades and the lobster "wars". These days they seem content to stand by while vandalism and arson occur, laying charges a few days later instead of stepping in and trying to prevent the violence in the first place.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by sk270

I think the RCMP have failed dismally and not done their duty in regards to both the blockades and the lobster "wars". These days they seem content to stand by while vandalism and arson occur, laying charges a few days later instead of stepping in and trying to prevent the violence in the first place.

dammed if they do and dammed if they don't....go figure eh.

[sk270]

Does anyone know for sure if lobster spawning is the reason for the closed seasons?

[sk270]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

dammed if they do and dammed if they don't....go figure eh.

I'm not sure when the RCMP were damned for preventing violence. Not saying it didn't happen but I'd appreciate a couple of references. Thanks.

[riden]

Originally Posted by sk270

Does anyone know for sure if lobster spawning is the reason for the closed seasons?

I'm sure it's not the only reason.

There are two seasons one before molting and one after. Most can't fish both of them. You buy a license of a retired fisherman, and it is only good for one season (Spring or Fall). So it isn't just separating seasons, it's separating who is fishing. I think there is an early winter season too in Yarmouth.

The idea is to get as many small operations involved in the fishery as possible, while keeping out the big players and a cynic would say, more on the pogie.

[Rastus]

I've said before and I will say it again, the RCMP, the constaples have to be getting their orders from higher up's, don't blame the constaples, and I never was one of them, or needed to be one.

[Ken07AOVette]

this is going to set a dangerous precedent when they are allowed to self regulate. The west coast will follow suit in a flash. They will then demand an entire new fleet of commercial boats delivered for free at a million a pop, to replace the last ones they ran into the ground in a fraction of the time everyone else makes them last.

The replies about the Rcmp and Fn issues are spot on.

[liar]

Originally Posted by schmedlap

Indeed, being from NS originally, I can understand the anger of the legal lobster fishermen. Some further facts seem relevant.
Until very strict regulation of seasons, sizes, quotas, and licensing came in several decades ago and was actually enforced, the fishery and lobster population were in severe decline, due to the usual over-harvesting and indiscriminate retentions. The regulation of this fishery has been a rare example of unmitigated success in producing a sustainable and consistently profitable industry. Permitting any harvesting outside the correct seasons, areas, and quotas is bound to be a potential or very real disaster for the industry and local economies.
Apparently, according to historians/anthropologists who have researched this, the indigenous people of the Maritimes never fished for or ate lobster prior to the advent of a European fishery. They considered them dirty scavengers, in essence, and not fit for consumption. For whatever reason, they generally never even participated in the fishery, for sustenance or otherwise, after the colonists established it. They did harvest eels (the subject of the Marshall case) and other inshore fish and crustaceans. So, is it not kind of a stretch to label it as a traditional fishery? It may have gotten lumped in under the wide wording of the treaties, but was not likely intended to be included by either side.

From what i have read/heard both side are following the laws as laid our by our federal gov. Which side are you calling " legal"

[Kurt505]

Lobster in the East, salmon in the west, moose across the prairies. Is this finally the time to abolish unregulated harvest? Is it time for Canadians to stand up against the two tiered system in place that has a total disregard for conservation? Métis hunters are slaughtering wildlife across Alberta at a pace that can’t be sustained, and it’s pretty damn obvious the government won’t step in to do anything about it.

[Armorman]

A similar fight will be on our doorsteps one day. Wait until FN start telling landowners in this province that they (landowners) actually don't own the land. It is coming and you can mark my words. And when it does happen the Government of Canaduh will be right there to side with the FN.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

[trapperdodge]

The federal government managed the cod fishery to extinction. No reason to think they can't do the same with lobster.