UCP approves policy to create private health-care system in Alberta

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by Scott N

Canada is ranked at #30 on the World Health Organization's health care list, so I'm not sure why so many people defend our current system so vigorously, other than for pure political partisan reasons or lack of information. Surely we can improve from #30, and many if not most of the countries ahead of Canada have a combination of public and privately funded health care.

It’s ranked #30 and probably costs #1

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by Outbound

Love it. I'm done with sitting in a doc-in-a-box clinic for hours only to end up seeing a "doc" who barely speaks english and who was "educated" in some third world craphole. I'll happily pay to see a real doctor with no delay, expedite any testing I need and get proper healthcare.

3 people I know died because our joke of a public healthcare system kept them waiting for critical testing and treatment until it was too late. I know of 2 more who got the treatment they needed and are alive today because they said screw it and paid, one using private options in Canada and the other travelling to the US.

Competition is good. The private sector will always be faster, better quality and more efficient than government.

Isn’t that the reason Brian Jean wanted to revamp the healthcare system

[fisher Gord]

the vote was 52 for- 48 against. not a large enough majority to really form policy.

[amosfella]

Originally Posted by Scott N

Canada is ranked at #30 on the World Health Organization's health care list, so I'm not sure why so many people defend our current system so vigorously, other than for pure political partisan reasons or lack of information. Surely we can improve from #30, and many if not most of the countries ahead of Canada have a combination of public and privately funded health care.

You have to look at who does the squawking whenever an alternative to public healthcare is proposed. It's AHS and the unions. Both of whom have a financial interest in keeping things as they are.

[KegRiver]

I don't see a downside.

At present we have two very good doctors but that's a first for here.
Mostly we get doctors that shouldn't be allowed to treat anything more then superficial cuts and who refuse to refer patients or have tests done.

If we wind up with doctors like that again, at least we'd have a chance at getting proper treatment elsewhere.

[CMichaud]

My personal ramblings....

I personally think our system is good at triage and critical care but lacks in early detection.

I think that the professional bodies that control medical professionals are bottle necking the production of home grown talent.

I think that the management needs to be reduced and wages looked at closely. Quoting the CTF:

"With more than 900 AHS management bureaucrats on the sunshine list, Health Minister Tyler Shandro is right to look for savings at the top of the pyramid," said CTF Alberta director Franco Terrazano in a release.

The list compiled by the CTF includes AHS president and CEO Verna Yiu, 11 vice-presidents, 571 directors, 204 managers and many other leadership-type positions.

It says the average compensation of all 920 positions on the list is $193,404. Public information shows Yiu earned $677,785 in total compensation in 2019."

Quick math is 920 x $193,404 = $177,931 million per year


I think outsourcing house cleaning positions and the like will result in a reduction of service with no cost savings. The companies that provide these services are in it for profit.

I look at the current dental situation as a comparison. Here we have essentially private "health-care" If you have the money/insurance you are treated quickly and it never seems to be difficult to find a dentist accepting new patients. Many people have their dental work done in other countries and do so if they want. Having said this, if you have no money then you are screwed.

What does bother me about the dental analogy is the stories of wildy varying rates depending on if you have coverage or not. Indeed, I had a root canal done when out in BC on holidays and the rate was cheaper than in Alberta so my insurer covered it.

If we are truly 30th in the world, I think things have to change as we are a developed G7 nation. Throwing more money is not going to work. Find out who number one is and copy their system.

[ESOXangler]

Originally Posted by CMichaud

My personal ramblings....

I personally think our system is good at triage and critical care but lacks in early detection.

I think that the professional bodies that control medical professionals are bottle necking the production of home grown talent.

I think that the management needs to be reduced and wages looked at closely. Quoting the CTF:

"With more than 900 AHS management bureaucrats on the sunshine list, Health Minister Tyler Shandro is right to look for savings at the top of the pyramid," said CTF Alberta director Franco Terrazano in a release.

The list compiled by the CTF includes AHS president and CEO Verna Yiu, 11 vice-presidents, 571 directors, 204 managers and many other leadership-type positions.

It says the average compensation of all 920 positions on the list is $193,404. Public information shows Yiu earned $677,785 in total compensation in 2019."

Quick math is 920 x $193,404 = $177,931 million per year


I think outsourcing house cleaning positions and the like will result in a reduction of service with no cost savings. The companies that provide these services are in it for profit.

I look at the current dental situation as a comparison. Here we have essentially private "health-care" If you have the money/insurance you are treated quickly and it never seems to be difficult to find a dentist accepting new patients. Many people have their dental work done in other countries and do so if they want. Having said this, if you have no money then you are screwed.

What does bother me about the dental analogy is the stories of wildy varying rates depending on if you have coverage or not. Indeed, I had a root canal done when out in BC on holidays and the rate was cheaper than in Alberta so my insurer covered it.

If we are truly 30th in the world, I think things have to change as we are a developed G7 nation. Throwing more money is not going to work. Find out who number one is and copy their system.

This is exactly how I feel as well.

Much like Elk11 ive done some research and if we could guarantee results like the top 10 countries i could support it. I would of 100% trusted Brian Jean to overhaul the system. I don't not trust Kenney at all. This will only result in his cronies getting wealthier. He stole his position and once a thief always a damn thief.

[Dynamic]

I think we can all mostly agree on the fact there are some countries that run with some combination of private and public delivery of healthcare that works for society in general. Australia like mentioned above seems to work quite well as well as many developed European nations. Given the right planning and implementation it probably could work quite well.

But given what the track record of the UPC so far I would not trust them at all. IMO this is purely ideological and they view any public government run system as inefficient and a drain on society. I have no reason to believe they would be able to even comprehend what a truly monumental task it would be to implement a public and private healthcare delivery system that doesn't in some way erode access to quality healthcare for all people in this province. I see them creating another one of their "panels of experts" comprised of senior executives, former conservative donors, and absolutely no front line representation and come to the pre-determined outcome that public anything is bad.

The main difference is that these progressive European nations that have highly functioning healthcare systems with private and public delivery is that they worked towards creating a system that would work for all. A high functioning public system and a alternative private system (which I assume is still highly regulated by the government) did not happen overnight and took many years of refinement to get to where they are. I feel the UPC is solely focused on "finding efficiencies" which in their heads means siphoning money from the public system to private delivery.

[Jokey75]

They tried expanding this in SK and it did not reduce wait times. Not at all.
3 different Docs I talked to said that in theory it would reduce wait times but it never happens that way.

There's a common pic out there from the campaign where Kenney is signing a big poster saying Public Health Guarantee. This isnt it.

And if you think you'll be OK because you could afford it....telling you that isn't always so and you could find yourself royally screwed.

Just another thing that they didn't campaign on that they are going to ram through without consult. (ie Provincial Police and withdrawing from CPP)

[elkhunter11]

For some reason many people see offering an option of private health care as doing away with public health are. That is not what is being proposed. The proposal is to continue the public system, but offer a private system in addition, so a person has two options.

[Jokey75]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

For some reason many people see offering an option of private health care as doing away with public health are. That is not what is being proposed. The proposal is to continue the public system, but offer a private system in addition, so a person has two options.

Which is all well and good as long as the people who can't pay to skip lines don't suffer at the expense of those who can.

[birdman86]

I've never had to use the system so find it hard to say. Given Kenney's track record I have a hard time believing this will benefit the average Albertan at all though.

If we still have our universal health care and I don't have to worry about bankrupting myself if I get cancer or severely injured or whatever, I won't fight it. But I 100% do not want to ever have to worry about buying healthcare insurance. It's already annoying as hell that dental/vision isn't covered. It's the one tax I'm completely on board with.

[aulrich]

About time, Monopolies are bad, government monopolies are the worst.

I see this as making the 2nd tier more affordable to the average person. Bridge the gap between waiting years to get a hip replacment and the cost of going to the "mayo clinic" next week.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Jokey75

Which is all well and good as long as the people who can't pay to skip lines don't suffer at the expense of those who can.

Some people already skip the lines now. Professional athletes,premiers, cabinet ministers, and anyone with considerable influence don't wait like the average person.

[Bigwoodsman]

[QUOTE=270person;4250725]Won't save the average person a nickel and the average person can't afford private so Yawn.

If government is involved its only going to cost, cost, cost.

Kenney's a doofus. Do something important like getting the feds in your gunsights and lowering our contributions into THAT cesspool instead.[/QUOTE]

Something that would benefit every Albertan. Do the above and the whole province benefits. Keep 20 billion dollars a year in the province and Health care becomes less of a concern.

BW

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

X3

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Some people already skip the lines now. Professional athletes,premiers, cabinet ministers, and anyone with considerable influence don't wait like the average person.

Don’t forget anything wcb related

[elkhunter11]

[QUOTE=Bigwoodsman;4251028]

Originally Posted by 270person

Won't save the average person a nickel and the average person can't afford private so Yawn.

If government is involved its only going to cost, cost, cost.

Kenney's a doofus. Do something important like getting the feds in your gunsights and lowering our contributions into THAT cesspool instead.[/QUOTE]

Something that would benefit every Albertan. Do the above and the whole province benefits. Keep 20 billion dollars a year in the province and Health care becomes less of a concern.

BW

True, but Trudeau won't allow that to happen, and there is nothing Alberta can do to change that.

[zabbo]

Originally Posted by birdman86

I've never had to use the system so find it hard to say. Given Kenney's track record I have a hard time believing this will benefit the average Albertan at all though.

If we still have our universal health care and I don't have to worry about bankrupting myself if I get cancer or severely injured or whatever, I won't fight it. But I 100% do not want to ever have to worry about buying healthcare insurance. It's already annoying as hell that dental/vision isn't covered. It's the one tax I'm completely on board with.

You and all Albertans are paying dearly for what we have right now!

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Some people already skip the lines now. Professional athletes,premiers, cabinet ministers, and anyone with considerable influence don't wait like the average person.

Now yer gitten er! Don't forget the turd and his merry band of thieves and vagabonds!

[Iron Brew]

Originally Posted by CMichaud

My personal ramblings....

I personally think our system is good at triage and critical care but lacks in early detection.

I think that the professional bodies that control medical professionals are bottle necking the production of home grown talent.

I think that the management needs to be reduced and wages looked at closely. Quoting the CTF:

"With more than 900 AHS management bureaucrats on the sunshine list, Health Minister Tyler Shandro is right to look for savings at the top of the pyramid," said CTF Alberta director Franco Terrazano in a release.

The list compiled by the CTF includes AHS president and CEO Verna Yiu, 11 vice-presidents, 571 directors, 204 managers and many other leadership-type positions.

It says the average compensation of all 920 positions on the list is $193,404. Public information shows Yiu earned $677,785 in total compensation in 2019."

Quick math is 920 x $193,404 = $177,931 million per year


I think outsourcing house cleaning positions and the like will result in a reduction of service with no cost savings. The companies that provide these services are in it for profit.

I look at the current dental situation as a comparison. Here we have essentially private "health-care" If you have the money/insurance you are treated quickly and it never seems to be difficult to find a dentist accepting new patients. Many people have their dental work done in other countries and do so if they want. Having said this, if you have no money then you are screwed.

What does bother me about the dental analogy is the stories of wildy varying rates depending on if you have coverage or not. Indeed, I had a root canal done when out in BC on holidays and the rate was cheaper than in Alberta so my insurer covered it.

If we are truly 30th in the world, I think things have to change as we are a developed G7 nation. Throwing more money is not going to work. Find out who number one is and copy their system.

Ah. This is one that always gets me. Do people realize we already have at least two levels that we pay for? That's great you want to quote the sunshine list, but... What about Covenant Health? They always get a free ride. Why are we paying for another layer of bureaucracy? How much money could be saved by getting rid of that added layer? I know it was recommended in that (probably inadequate) Ernst and Young report, but this part seems to me to be easy pickings for savings and is absolutely silent... Oh wait. Look at who's on the board... Never Mind. Forget I said anything.

Edit - Covenant CEO wages just under $600 000.00 on an 862 million dollar budget vs $678 000 on a 13 800 million dollar budget. I'd say AHS is underpaying their CEO IF (note the caps) you compare it to the Covenant CEO, on a per million dollars of budget basis. A 16 times larger budget for a mere $80 000 more money...

[bsmitty27]

Originally Posted by huntinstuff

If my family members can get the medical assistance they need faster Im all for it

"Free" is not a word I look for

If my partner needs a CT or MRI I call, pay and shes there the next day. We have done it before and Id do it again in a heartbeat. Money means crap if your family needs medical help

I sincerly hope you always find yourself in a financial position to make that happen.

[Y2K]

People will be in for real education

[stubblejumper01]

[QUOTE=KegRiver;4250914]I don't see a downside
Mostly we get doctors that shouldn't be allowed to treat anything more then superficial cuts and who refuse to refer patients or have tests done

My local doctor is like that. The only good thing about him is he has small fingers when prostrate check is due

[stubblejumper01]

[QUOTE=KegRiver;4250914]I don't see a downside
Mostly we get doctors that shouldn't be allowed to treat anything more then superficial cuts and who refuse to refer patients or have tests done

My local doctor is like that. The only good thing about him is he has small fingers when prostate check is due

[BuckCuller]

Originally Posted by huntinstuff

If my family members can get the medical assistance they need faster Im all for it

"Free" is not a word I look for

If my partner needs a CT or MRI I call, pay and shes there the next day. We have done it before and Id do it again in a heartbeat. Money means crap if your family needs medical help

Wish Klein would of did this years ago! He talked about it but couldn’t get it fully done. I’ve seen a lot of people suffer including family because of our bloated backlogged money pit of a public system. Misdiagnosed or diagnosed to late for treatments to do any good. No good doctors left in town. I know people that can’t even get a family doctor.
Me losing five days wages sitting in a hospital waiting for them to do surgery on my sons broken arm as he keeps getting bumped for more urgent cases would have easily paid for the surgery privately.
I actually wrote Kenney and many more UCP members while I was in the hospital about having a proper two tier system because the government can’t manage the public system.
I’m optimistic that it will help the current system and people in need of a speedy medical treatment in ways that our current system fails.

[BuckCuller]

Originally Posted by bsmitty27

I sincerly hope you always find yourself in a financial position to make that happen.

Well if you can’t you would wait just like you do now so what would be the difference other than having more access other options.

[huntwat]

I don’t see the big deal. We have always had private health care. Just have to travel south of the 49th. At least now the cash will stay in Alberta.

[RandyBoBandy]

Originally Posted by bsmitty27

I sincerly hope you always find yourself in a financial position to make that happen.

It is NOT about the ability to pay to get things happen faster. If you can't afford to go the private way, you ALWAYS have the regular AHC system, which we all use now. I figure the lines will be shorter for us.

Randy is not saying he's better off financially, so he'll pay for private. If you NEED an MRI, you do have a choice, wait in line as per normal OR buck out and get it tomorrow. It's all about choices.

Just remember Canada's FREE health care system, is one where you can die, waiting for the FREE part

[bsmitty27]

Originally Posted by BuckCuller

Well if you can’t you would wait just like you do now so what would be the difference other than having more access other options.

Except with more Dr. And more money going to private sector.
I would like to think one could wait like he does now. But the math doesnt add up.

[bessiedog]

Ah yes.... and all the really good docs will stay in the public sector... cause profit motive.


Most these posts seem to reek with self indulgence.... and exhibit a laughable concern for their neighbors.


The majority of Albertans live paycheck to paycheck.... so ‘they deserve their situation’ because it’s all about their poor life choices.....


Wish humans and their condition were as simple as that typical tired narrative.

[huntinstuff]

Originally Posted by bsmitty27

I sincerly hope you always find yourself in a financial position to make that happen.

Pay or wait.....so simple

Everyone on this site has the ability to pay $1000 for an MRI. It's just a matter of whats more important to them, their "stuff" or their health

Guys with 2 or 30 rifles complaining about paying for an MRI

Guys with $5000+vehicles/quads/snowmobiles complaining about paying for an MRI

Guys with a computer or smartphone and monthly payments on it complaining about paying for an MRI

Anyone can do it, its just a matter if they have the desire to do it