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  #31  
Old 10-19-2020, 07:50 PM
cowmanbob cowmanbob is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Armorman View Post
A similar fight will be on our doorsteps one day. Wait until FN start telling landowners in this province that they (landowners) actually don't own the land. It is coming and you can mark my words. And when it does happen the Government of Canaduh will be right there to side with the FN.

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  #32  
Old 10-19-2020, 07:59 PM
Rvsask Rvsask is offline
 
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I’m sure whatever the corporate multi billion dollar mega fishery, Clearwater, that has received preferential treatment from both Provincial and Federal Government on this one, says should happen, will happen, on those traditional waters.
http://https://canadians.org/analysi...olent-conflict

If commercial fishermen want what Sundance says is his take, then it’d sense to put some anger towards Clearwater and the gov’t, no???

But yeah, let’s hate on the indigenous fishermen. It seems like AO playbook to me.

Last edited by Rvsask; 10-19-2020 at 08:16 PM.
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  #33  
Old 10-19-2020, 08:16 PM
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The Maritimers voted for this when they voted Liberal. Enjoy.
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  #34  
Old 10-19-2020, 08:31 PM
OL_JR OL_JR is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Kurt505 View Post
Lobster in the East, salmon in the west, moose across the prairies. Is this finally the time to abolish unregulated harvest? Is it time for Canadians to stand up against the two tiered system in place that has a total disregard for conservation? Métis hunters are slaughtering wildlife across Alberta at a pace that can’t be sustained, and it’s pretty damn obvious the government won’t step in to do anything about it.
It's been time for a while now.

There is still provision under the wildlife regulation that anyone can obtain a subsistence license if they can demonstrate the need. Why we can't all live with that as one people is beyond me.
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  #35  
Old 10-19-2020, 08:46 PM
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The Maritimers voted for this when they voted Liberal. Enjoy.
I dont think so . These issues have been about 150 years in the making . Every political party that has had control of this country has failed us and has failed canada by never dealing with these issues properly . Im not a big fan of JT but lets lay blame where it belongs .
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  #36  
Old 10-19-2020, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Sundancefisher View Post
In a nutshell.

Supreme Court in 1999 said FN could fish for a moderate living. Federal government has failed to define moderate living.

Heard area businesses refuse to deal with FN fishers.

FN are fishing during season spawning closure.

FN want to fish and sell lobster.
Commercial fishers want reasonable boundaries and fair sharing of the resource.
Commercial fishers want conservation measures followed by all versus a free for all.

My take.
That's what I heard.

On the way home this evening I listened to a CBC interview with the federal minister in charge of the situation.

The reporter asked several good questions, and got zero answers.

One question was, why has the federal government not set limits or seasons for the FN fishery. His answer, everyone has to abide by the set seasons and limits", which the reporter pointed out was not the case for FN fishermen.
To which the minister replied, "Right now we need to ensure they can fish in safety.

I suspect that the real issue is that the feds have left the warring parties to work this out between them.

Once again the government claims to stand for native rights but does nothing to provide, define or enforce them, either for the benefit of natives or for those who loose because of rights were given but not defined.

It was double speak at it's finest.


If that is what is happening in this situation I can not say. I only know what was done to my neighbors. residential schools are only part of that story.
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  #37  
Old 10-19-2020, 08:58 PM
curtz curtz is offline
 
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I think everytime the government bends over and give F/N and Metie anything they want they make discrimation worse.
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  #38  
Old 10-19-2020, 08:59 PM
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That is the problem for sure , they ignore the problem and hope it just goes away .
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  #39  
Old 10-19-2020, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by liar View Post
I dont think so . These issues have been about 150 years in the making . Every political party that has had control of this country has failed us and has failed canada by never dealing with these issues properly . Im not a big fan of JT but lets lay blame where it belongs .
This x2, the pandering continues, no government knows how to stop it nor do they want to stop it
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  #40  
Old 10-19-2020, 09:00 PM
59whiskers 59whiskers is offline
 
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I was under the impression that treaty hunters and fishers can only hunt/ fish for personal family use only, not commercial use for sale? The liberal media is so biased that not one word is heard from the concerns of the commercial lobster fishers, sickening. The same thing is happening with west coast salmon, sickening. Really the general public in urban Canada does not have a clue and never will.
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  #41  
Old 10-19-2020, 09:09 PM
calgarychef calgarychef is offline
 
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Originally Posted by 59whiskers View Post
I was under the impression that treaty hunters and fishers can only hunt/ fish for personal family use only, not commercial use for sale? The liberal media is so biased that not one word is heard from the concerns of the commercial lobster fishers, sickening. The same thing is happening with west coast salmon, sickening. Really the general public in urban Canada does not have a clue and never will.

“Personal use” could also include selling fish and game for money to feed the family.

This whole thing oil, land treaties, moose hunting, lobster, salmon... is getting so out of hand. Seriously something needs to be done once and for all time. I’m all for a huge buy out, every native gets a huge chunk of money and it’s over.
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  #42  
Old 10-19-2020, 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by liar View Post
I dont think so . These issues have been about 150 years in the making . Every political party that has had control of this country has failed us and has failed canada by never dealing with these issues properly . Im not a big fan of JT but lets lay blame where it belongs .

From what I know, that is all true, except, wasn't it JT who apologized with tears in his eyes, for what FN endured in residential schools?

Yet like all the others he has done nothing to honor treaties or in any way make things better for FN.

My friends growing up were all FN or Metis. I saw a side few see.

What we think we know is not what is happening. Sadly I know that trying to explain would fall on deaf ears.

So I'll just say this. For generations Ottawa has played east against west and French against English.
Why would we think they are not playing none natives against FN?

Today it is right in front of us, in Nova Scotia and on the news.

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Our government says know not thy enemy and thou shall surely be defeated.
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  #43  
Old 10-19-2020, 09:24 PM
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[QUOTE=59whiskers;4251428]I was under the impression that treaty hunters and fishers can only hunt/ fish for personal family use only, not commercial use for sale? The liberal media is so biased that not one word is heard from the concerns of the commercial lobster fishers, sickening. /QUOTE]

To which media are you referring? As far as I can tell they've all presented both sides. Not going to get anywhere bashing the media for no reason.

Have you read the media reports about the Marshall decision? Doesn't sound like it but you'd then see both sides. Hard to choose when they're both right. Or wrong.😁
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  #44  
Old 10-19-2020, 09:54 PM
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Originally Posted by liar View Post
I dont think so . These issues have been about 150 years in the making . Every political party that has had control of this country has failed us and has failed canada by never dealing with these issues properly . Im not a big fan of JT but lets lay blame where it belongs .
Yes his father is to blame.
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  #45  
Old 10-20-2020, 02:08 AM
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What a mess...

I'm originally from Nova Scotia and still have old friends running lobster boats down there. This is the 'Cole's Notes' to the best of my knowledge, although I'm certain some can/will correct me.

After the disaster of the cod fishery, many lessons were learned. These lessons were applied to the lobster fishery. Many sacrifices were made, tons of work/science and it's been a tremendous success. It took decades though.

In fact, these days, the resource is healthier than it's been in generations.

To Nova Scotia, one must realize that the lobster fishery is statistically equal or more vital to that province's economy than oil and gas is to Alberta's.

To become a lobster fisherman, a quota purchase averages around $800,000. This may or may not include boat/gear depending on the area/license. The boat and gear if done properly could be an additional $1 million..

The Department of Fisheries and Oceans (DFO) under Trudeau has spent $545 million purchasing licences, boats and gear, then GIVING it to the Mi'kmaw for free who have next to zero history of traditionally harvesting this resource.

There is no definition of what a 'moderate livelihood' is. There are no regulations in terms of harvest quota, seaons, or respect of area closures.

NONE!!!

See why there's protest now? Wouldn't you?

The FN have seen what has happened on the west coast and are simply trying to cash in. The lieberal conundrum is that both sides voted for them and keeping Atlantic Canada on the traditional government teat only works to their advantage, thus they are doing their best to ignore the issue and leave it in the hands of the incompetent rcmp.

Trudeau has emboldended FN with his viture signaling and created this huge mess. People are going to get killed. It seems that's what liberals do these days. Divide and conqure...

Tree

Last edited by TreeGuy; 10-20-2020 at 02:15 AM.
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  #46  
Old 10-20-2020, 06:04 AM
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Originally Posted by curtz View Post
I think everytime the government bends over and give F/N and Metie anything they want they make discrimation worse.
Yup....heightens racism etc too.....we don't believe in it but support it.....a total vicious circle that will get repeated....embarrassing is what it is.
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  #47  
Old 10-20-2020, 06:19 AM
Positrac Positrac is offline
 
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Did the Maritimes not vote predominantly Liberal in the last election?

Has Sparkle Socks not emboldened the native population in this country with every move he has either made, or in the case of dismantling illegal native blockades, not made?

You reap what you sew. Maybe now they will see the light.
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  #48  
Old 10-20-2020, 06:24 AM
liar liar is offline
 
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Originally Posted by TreeGuy View Post
What a mess...

I'm originally from Nova Scotia and still have old friends running lobster boats down there. This is the 'Cole's Notes' to the best of my knowledge, although I'm certain some can/will correct me.

After the disaster of the cod fishery, many lessons were learned. These lessons were applied to the lobster fishery. Many sacrifices were made, tons of work/science and it's been a tremendous success. It took decades though.

In fact, these days, the resource is healthier than it's been in generations.

To Nova Scotia, one must realize that the lobster fishery is statistically equal or more vital to that province's economy than oil and gas is to Alberta's.

To become a lobster fisherman, a quota purchase averages around $800,000. This may or may not include boat/gear depending on the area/license. The boat and gear if done properly could be an additional $1 million..

The Department of Fisheries and Oceans (DFO) under Trudeau has spent $545 million purchasing licences, boats and gear, then GIVING it to the Mi'kmaw for free who have next to zero history of traditionally harvesting this resource.

There is no definition of what a 'moderate livelihood' is. There are no regulations in terms of harvest quota, seaons, or respect of area closures.

NONE!!!

See why there's protest now? Wouldn't you?

The FN have seen what has happened on the west coast and are simply trying to cash in. The lieberal conundrum is that both sides voted for them and keeping Atlantic Canada on the traditional government teat only works to their advantage, thus they are doing their best to ignore the issue and leave it in the hands of the incompetent rcmp.

Trudeau has emboldended FN with his viture signaling and created this huge mess. People are going to get killed. It seems that's what liberals do these days. Divide and conqure...

Tree
I dont agree with this anymore than the business loans handed out to black people earlier this year . The problem here , however , is the two sets of rules , or should i say the lack of rules for one group .
Any laws or rules to protect our environment / natural resources should be followed by everyone whether its for timber , moose , deer , fish ,etc ,etc .

Thanks for posting your take on this , interesting .
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  #49  
Old 10-20-2020, 06:59 AM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is online now
 
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Originally Posted by Positrac View Post
Did the Maritimes not vote predominantly Liberal in the last election?

Has Sparkle Socks not emboldened the native population in this country with every move he has either made, or in the case of dismantling illegal native blockades, not made?

You reap what you sew. Maybe now they will see the light.
The blinders are still on, so they won't see the light.
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  #50  
Old 10-20-2020, 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
The blinders are still on, so they won't see the light.
Tragic part is, they're fighting over a declining resource, at some point it will be moot. who remembers the days of 10 lb. plus lobsters ?

Grizz
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  #51  
Old 10-20-2020, 07:43 AM
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I voted for him but don't forget that Harper was in power for almost ten years. Neither federal party dealt conclusively with this issue. Just like the Wet'suwet'en land claims.
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  #52  
Old 10-20-2020, 07:56 AM
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Originally Posted by liar View Post
I dont think so . These issues have been about 150 years in the making . Every political party that has had control of this country has failed us and has failed canada by never dealing with these issues properly . Im not a big fan of JT but lets lay blame where it belongs .
So, obviously...... Harper!


Just had to say it.
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  #53  
Old 10-20-2020, 08:31 AM
riden riden is offline
 
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In this morning's news. Another band is opening a lobster fishery.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-...tion-1.5769025
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  #54  
Old 10-20-2020, 08:34 AM
Sundog57 Sundog57 is offline
 
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I see a number of issues, but for the moment conservation is not one of them.
Lobster seasons in Nova Scotia go around the province by calendar. This system is designed by the Dept of Fisheries to assure that the market is never flooded.
The FN "moderate livelihood" fishery as it stands today accounts for less than the number of illegal traps that are set by licensed harvesters in the DFO seasons (nobody admits to it but everyone knows that it happens).

Second issue (and this is a nightmare right across the country).
The right to harvest wildlife vests to individuals, not to bands or First Nations or whatever you want to call them. So, even if a band Chief (an elected one but what happens if a hereditary one objects...) signs off, the individuals do not have to agree or comply.

The wording of most Treaties, gives natives the right to hunt and fish in accordance to their custom or for the numbered treaties their "avocation". Historically this included fishing and hunting and selling the product to the later arrivals (that would be us).

The Treaties are all signed by the Crown so unfortunately take precedence over subsequent legislation enacted by various Canadian governments. The Courts have held this to be correct.

The rights exist and various governments have been unwilling or unable to deal with this. Harper tried with the education budget issue but this was rejected by the FN's and served to highlight the issue - there is no single definable entity with whom a binding agreement can be signed.

As we have moved "forward" as a society it is no longer acceptable to most of us to say *** 'em.

I don't have a solution to this, but it's going to get much worse before it gets any better.
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  #55  
Old 10-20-2020, 10:07 AM
sk270 sk270 is offline
 
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Sundog suggests the lobster seasons are not set for conservation reasons. I have read that they are and are not. Does anyone have a definitive citation for this?

As Sundog also points out, the courts have decided that the treaties are valid under our legal system. The governments must negotiate and legislate solutions. Instead they all seem to do the minimum and hope nothing serious happens to force their hand in a given situation.
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  #56  
Old 10-20-2020, 10:26 AM
Kurt505 Kurt505 is offline
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Originally Posted by sk270 View Post
I voted for him but don't forget that Harper was in power for almost ten years. Neither federal party dealt conclusively with this issue. Just like the Wet'suwet'en land claims.
You voted for trudeau.......
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  #57  
Old 10-20-2020, 10:34 AM
sk270 sk270 is offline
 
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You voted for trudeau.......
Your mind reading powers are failing you this time . I voted for neither Justin nor Pierre. Remembering "why should I sell your wheat" and the National Energy Policy negates any positives about that surname. But Harper did not always do the right thing.
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  #58  
Old 10-20-2020, 10:39 AM
Kurt505 Kurt505 is offline
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Your mind reading powers are failing you this time . I voted for neither Justin nor Pierre. Remembering "why should I sell your wheat" and the National Energy Policy negates any positives about that surname. But Harper did not always do the right thing.
In your post you said you voted for him, in the context it seemed you were referring to justin.
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  #59  
Old 10-20-2020, 10:52 AM
sk270 sk270 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Kurt505 View Post
In your post you said you voted for him, in the context it seemed you were referring to justin.
I re-read my post and I see what you mean from the way I phrased it. Pronoun with no antecedent as my Grade 10 English teacher would have said. I meant I voted for Harper. Thought you were using ESP on me and missing .

I'm critical of all federal governments for their long-term refusal to settle indigenous issues one way or the other before things boil over.
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  #60  
Old 10-20-2020, 10:59 AM
JDK71 JDK71 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Armorman View Post
A similar fight will be on our doorsteps one day. Wait until FN start telling landowners in this province that they (landowners) actually don't own the land. It is coming and you can mark my words. And when it does happen the Government of Canaduh will be right there to side with the FN.

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when that day comes there will be a lot of people going to jail and a lot going into the ground just my thoughts
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