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  #121  
Old 03-27-2018, 09:56 PM
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Of about 150 attendees about 60 were locals residents. The rest were ABA members or affiliates.. Seriously.
I think you might be embellishing things we can’t even get that many to an AGM meeting LMAO!

Was there free cookies or something there? We need to know your secret to get more member involvement.

LC
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  #122  
Old 03-27-2018, 10:08 PM
gpelker gpelker is offline
 
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Huh.......................35# you say. Can't see that wt of bow being the bow of choice for elk or moose but sure it could be done just like a .223 could do the job. I used to be a man who opposed the xbow with a fervor. Not any more though......like you said in your comment above, advancements in technology and efficient designs of modern compounds allow use of 35# bows. Well isn't that grand. Makes it almost effortless to use a 35# compound bow in the field.

I used to shut down any discourse about using a crossbow in the archery season. Here are the reasons why I stopped doing that disservice to the hunting community.....self pride, selfishness and fear were my motivations.

Self-pride: believing that I was better; more valuable; a more worthy hunter than those wanting to hunt with a crossbow; if I could pick up a bow and hunt then so can everyone else.

Fear: that the inclusion of crossbows would make it too easy for others to harvest big game animals.

Selfishness: in that I was being asked to share the harvest with other hunters.

None of these are valid. They are not worthy considerations at all.

These three motivations are shallow and it has troubled me for some time that I have not paid penance for my thoughts and actions. One still has to become a hunter to enjoy success with a crossbow. Yes, there are differences between a crossbow and a compound bow and a traditional bow. Yet, these differences do not amount to anything substantive, that should exclude a crossbow from being an equal option, in an archery only season.None of these are valid. In fact they are not worthy considerations at all.

I have been a bow hunter for 30 years. I know exactly and precisely what it takes to hunt with a trad bow, compound bow and crossbow. I own and hunt with all three. No one here should think that they can tell me how to use any of these tools........I know them intimately.

I encourage any hunter who wants to hunt with a crossbow in the archery season to lobby the AFGA and/or the govt of AB.

sounds like you know it all.
Crossbows are not bows, read the regulations on a description of a bow
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  #123  
Old 03-27-2018, 10:11 PM
Salavee Salavee is offline
 
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Must have been before my days as a member. I don’t recall receiving a call to action.

LC
I don't how long you have been a member, but that happened 12 -15 yrs ago, .. not quite sure.

It would be hard to believe there wasn't a lot of gleeful chatter going on within the ABA inner ranks after that fiasco.
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  #124  
Old 03-27-2018, 10:11 PM
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But that would eliminate those 60 -80 yd shots.. more restrictions !
glasss half full, you like yours half empty
not more restrictions, more opportunities to hunt not to kill!!
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  #125  
Old 03-27-2018, 10:23 PM
gpelker gpelker is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Salavee View Post
Here is the mantra from ABA regarding X-Bows. (2011).
http://www.westernsportsman.com/2011/10/aba-response/

There are a few nearly identical comments on this thread. Are the hardcore ABA members required to memorize these?
each member has their own opinions, we support a great organization that does a lot of work to preserve and encourage BOW shooting and hunting.
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  #126  
Old 03-27-2018, 10:23 PM
Salavee Salavee is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck View Post
I think you might be embellishing things we can’t even get that many to an AGM meeting LMAO!

Was there free cookies or something there? We need to know your secret to get more member involvement.

LC
Sorry about the lack of attendance at your AGM but I can understand why. How many dudes actually run that show anyway ?
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  #127  
Old 03-27-2018, 10:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck View Post
I think you might be embellishing things we can’t even get that many to an AGM meeting LMAO!

Was there free cookies or something there? We need to know your secret to get more member involvement.

LC
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  #128  
Old 03-27-2018, 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Salavee View Post
Sorry about the lack of attendance at your AGM but I can understand why. How many dudes actually run that show anyway ?
Come check it out and do a head count lol. We had a great banquet this year. Lots of accomplished guys and gals, celebrity type folks, and some world class bow hunters and guides. It was an awesome evening celebrating a great hunting season. Some beautiful mounts came through the door including the new Alberta typical mule deer record, an 11 ft gator, and a 222” nontypical mule deer taken this past season. Lots of youngsters there too.

LC
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  #129  
Old 03-27-2018, 10:57 PM
Salavee Salavee is offline
 
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[QUOTE=Lefty-Canuck;3760298]Come check it out and do a head count lol. We had a great banquet this year. Lots of accomplished guys and gals, celebrity type folks, and some world class bow hunters and guides. It was an awesome evening celebrating a great hunting season. Some beautiful mounts came through the door including the new Alberta typical mule deer record, an 11 ft gator, and a 222” nontypical mule deer taken this past season. Lots of youngsters there too.

LC[/QUOte

All good stuff for sure. That's what it's all about...

.., but I'll pass on the invitation to do a head count. You wouldn't believe it anyway.
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  #130  
Old 03-28-2018, 01:16 AM
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Originally Posted by gpelker View Post
sounds like you know it all.
Crossbows are not bows, read the regulations on a description of a bow
Read post #104. Next time come to the game prepared.
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  #131  
Old 03-28-2018, 06:48 AM
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Long time member and 50+ year Trad Bowhunter. Those of you complaining get involved instead. ABA is the reason there is bowhunting anyway. I'm one of the directors and we ARE involved with other user groups who support us and we support them.

I'm dealing with some old age issues and physical problems myself right now but I can tell you that I will never use a crossbow. I'll have to shoot some meat with the rifle I guess after 20 yrs.

Oh and Phil, the Ram you killed last year is a direct result of ABA helping to create the zone for you to do so.

The main problem we have in this province is politicians in charge of something they no nothing about



Want change, get involved. Come to some meetings and really see what we're about.
Jeepers join the ABA, sit there and voice an opinion say about the crossbows being a bow and should be treated as archery equipment sharing the exact same rules/regs that say a traditional bow has....won't be too liked in that crowd.
Like minded people migrate to like minded people, form a group and move towards thier agenda's...I'll spend my cash elsewhere. Never use a crossbow, that's too bad you might be missing out on something you really might enjoy.
Variety is the spice of life, change is a good thing, adaptation and evolve but when you close hallway doors the room gets narrow, dark, dingy and stagnant.
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  #132  
Old 03-28-2018, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by 58thecat View Post
Jeepers join the ABA, sit there and voice an opinion say about the crossbows being a bow and should be treated as archery equipment sharing the exact same rules/regs that say a traditional bow has....won't be too liked in that crowd.
Like minded people migrate to like minded people, form a group and move towards thier agenda's...I'll spend my cash elsewhere. Never use a crossbow, that's too bad you might be missing out on something you really might enjoy.
Variety is the spice of life, change is a good thing, adaptation and evolve but when you close hallway doors the room gets narrow, dark, dingy and stagnant.
Now you are getting absurd.

You know how many ABA members have crossbows? Lots. I hunt with one of these members. Even some of the executive own them. Many of those folks also feel they don’t belong in the archery season, but they use them during bear season and/or general seasons. But don’t let that information get in the way of a good ABA bash fest.

Using a crossbow or not is a choice and there is ample opportunity now to do so. There are many who could hunt the elk rut with a crossbow, or even hunt the “Bowzone” with a crossbow at certain times...but CHOOSE not too. Citing “travel” as one of the main drawbacks...I can’t hunt antelope in my backyard because of where I live but it doesn’t stop me from travelling to where the opportunity exists. Some would rather complain and take their ball and go home than work within the current regs to use their coveted tool when possible...again that’s their choice.

LC
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  #133  
Old 03-28-2018, 09:42 AM
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Ok, this back and forth has gone on long enough and nothing is going to be solved. It is very clear that everyone has their mind made up and there is no swaying them one way or another on the issue of "should a crossbow be allowed in an archery season".

The ABA is the voice of bowhunters in Alberta and that is a fact. You may or may not agree with what they stand for; that is all personal.

If you don't like it, then join up and go to the meetings to make your voice heard. If you do like it then join up, be engaged, and add value where you can.

Complaining on an internet forum isn't going to change anything and if you sit there and do nothing then in my opinion you do not have the right to complain.

This is no different than those who complain about the government but don't bother to vote.
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  #134  
Old 03-28-2018, 09:49 AM
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Well said

LC
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  #135  
Old 03-28-2018, 10:23 AM
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I am a ABA life member, have been a member for a long time. I dont remember the call to arms about the Parkland bowzone, I recall some information being sent out to all the membership with information as too where and when the meetings were to be held. I believe the other organizations were free to do the same for their membership, and as a responsible organization, should have done so.

I believe that the biggest "issue" with the ABA is its mandate to get information out to its membership about issues affecting bowhunting in Alberta, and to get their voice heard. About 90% + of the membership rifle hunts to some extent, maybe more. The ABA is about promoting and preserving bowhunting opportunities.

How has fighting for a piece of the mule deer pie hurt bowhunting here?
The ABA got defeated by a louder voice and the archery season in most units got lumped in with the rifle tags. How long between tags now? Just a question. And yes, the other voice is at the same table at the same meetings, and will be across the table or sitting beside the ABA rep at the next one.

As for the crossbow issue, has anybody else been watching the US game departments starting to move the crossbows OUT of archery seasons and into the General seasons due to the fact that in multiple states, the crossbow harvest has exceeded the hand held bow and arrow harvest?

If the people who will never belong to this or that organization, maybe you shouldn't be taking advantage of the opportunities created by the various user groups in the Province. That includes hunting in the designated bow zones, utilizing the archery season with which ever legal weapon you use, drawing a late season archery only tag, maybe even save your money and don't apply for the Cadomin tags. Those were a result of many meetings with F&W and multiple user groups, one of which is the ABA.

Don't like the direction of a particular group but like the related activity? Get involved and work towards getting it changed towards the betterment of all Albertan's, not just your particular belief's.

Goes for hunting, 3-D, shotgunning, fishing, quads, hiking etc

Welcome aboard Kyle

Terry
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  #136  
Old 03-28-2018, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by KyleSS View Post
Ok, this back and forth has gone on long enough and nothing is going to be solved. It is very clear that everyone has their mind made up and there is no swaying them one way or another on the issue of "should a crossbow be allowed in an archery season".

The ABA is the voice of bowhunters in Alberta and that is a fact. You may or may not agree with what they stand for; that is all personal.

If you don't like it, then join up and go to the meetings to make your voice heard. If you do like it then join up, be engaged, and add value where you can.

Complaining on an internet forum isn't going to change anything and if you sit there and do nothing then in my opinion you do not have the right to complain.

This is no different than those who complain about the government but don't bother to vote.
The truth is, the ABA is the voice of it's members, not the voice of AB Bowhunters.

I had my mind made up. I was a fierce opponent of crossbows in the archery season. I was one of the most antagonistic sob's out there, beating up on those who dared think they could wedge their way into my season. I have since seen the error of my thinking (selfishness/greed/fear). So people do change...

You are correct that complaining on an internet forum is a waste of time. I am encouraging those who support crossbow hunting in the archery season to lobby the AFGA and/or the govt of AB with purpose, as I have.
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  #137  
Old 03-28-2018, 10:36 AM
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The truth is, the ABA is the voice of it's members, not the voice of AB Bowhunters.

I had my mind made up. I was a fierce opponent of crossbows in the archery season. I was one of the most antagonistic sob's out there, beating up on those who dared think they could wedge their way into my season. I have since seen the error of my thinking (selfishness/greed/fear). So people do change...

You are correct that complaining on an internet forum is a waste of time. I am encouraging those who support crossbow hunting in the archery season to lobby the AFGA and/or the govt of AB with purpose, as I have.
I take it you don’t apply for Camore or other Bowzone draws...that might show support for ABA initiatives

LC
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  #138  
Old 03-28-2018, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by bowshot View Post
I am a ABA life member, have been a member for a long time. I dont remember the call to arms about the Parkland bowzone, I recall some information being sent out to all the membership with information as too where and when the meetings were to be held. I believe the other organizations were free to do the same for their membership, and as a responsible organization, should have done so.

I believe that the biggest "issue" with the ABA is its mandate to get information out to its membership about issues affecting bowhunting in Alberta, and to get their voice heard. About 90% + of the membership rifle hunts to some extent, maybe more. The ABA is about promoting and preserving bowhunting opportunities.

How has fighting for a piece of the mule deer pie hurt bowhunting here?
The ABA got defeated by a louder voice and the archery season in most units got lumped in with the rifle tags. How long between tags now? Just a question. And yes, the other voice is at the same table at the same meetings, and will be across the table or sitting beside the ABA rep at the next one.

As for the crossbow issue, has anybody else been watching the US game departments starting to move the crossbows OUT of archery seasons and into the General seasons due to the fact that in multiple states, the crossbow harvest has exceeded the hand held bow and arrow harvest?

If the people who will never belong to this or that organization, maybe you shouldn't be taking advantage of the opportunities created by the various user groups in the Province. That includes hunting in the designated bow zones, utilizing the archery season with which ever legal weapon you use, drawing a late season archery only tag, maybe even save your money and don't apply for the Cadomin tags. Those were a result of many meetings with F&W and multiple user groups, one of which is the ABA.

Don't like the direction of a particular group but like the related activity? Get involved and work towards getting it changed towards the betterment of all Albertan's, not just your particular belief's.

Goes for hunting, 3-D, shotgunning, fishing, quads, hiking etc

Welcome aboard Kyle

Terry
Hello Terry

I'm not doubting any of your comments but when certain comments are made they should be backed up with a ref (link) in order to give them context.

https://www.cabelas.com/category/Cro.../107361180.uts
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  #139  
Old 03-28-2018, 10:46 AM
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That talent is beyond my computer capabilities, it is not an attempt to hide anything. You are free to believe what you want though, try checking the eastern states fish and wildlife sites. I wont quote any individual States as I will be working off memory and ......
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  #140  
Old 03-28-2018, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck View Post
I take it you don’t apply for Camore or other Bowzone draws...that might show support for ABA initiatives

LC
I used to hunt in 248 (the NW side of 248), where there are no draws and you can't use ML and shotguns (the real bowzone). Arrowed plenty of moose/WT/MD on the NW side of 248. I've since moved from Morinville to the SW mountains so 248 is too far to venture now. I've thought about Canmore, but I have lots of opportunity closer to home.

I did get drawn for archery antelope last year.
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  #141  
Old 03-28-2018, 10:54 AM
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I was correct, beyond my capabilities.

Wyoming is looking at crossbows in the archery season, use of trail cameras and smart guns at meetings scheduled for Nov 2018. I cant get the link to open so there is no sense copying it. Info should be on their website.

Virginia is moving the other way, airbows are included in archery season this year.
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  #142  
Old 03-28-2018, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by bowshot View Post
I was correct, beyond my capabilities.

Wyoming is looking at crossbows in the archery season, use of trail cameras and smart guns at meetings scheduled for Nov 2018. I cant get the link to open so there is no sense copying it. Info should be on their website.

Virginia is moving the other way, airbows are included in archery season this year.
This is what I could find about Wyoming: http://trib.com/lifestyles/recreatio...874d7f3b2.html

Here I am with a Wyoming antelope:



Not a stealthy tool (the crossbow), spot and stalk doesn't work. A trad or compound bow is much better suited for spot and stalk.........but I was hunting from a blind, that is where a crossbow shines.........or in the bush up a tree stand. Otherwise a trad or compound is king

Last edited by CNP; 03-28-2018 at 11:11 AM.
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  #143  
Old 03-28-2018, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by KyleSS View Post
Ok, this back and forth has gone on long enough and nothing is going to be solved. It is very clear that everyone has their mind made up and there is no swaying them one way or another on the issue of "should a crossbow be allowed in an archery season".

The ABA is the voice of bowhunters in Alberta and that is a fact. You may or may not agree with what they stand for; that is all personal.

If you don't like it, then join up and go to the meetings to make your voice heard. If you do like it then join up, be engaged, and add value where you can.

Complaining on an internet forum isn't going to change anything and if you sit there and do nothing then in my opinion you do not have the right to complain.

This is no different than those who complain about the government but don't bother to vote.
The ABA is not the voice for all bow hunters in Alberta. They are an association which speaks on behalf of their members. There are many bow hunters not associated with this association and yes that is all personal. Using a forum to engage in conversation is all part of the forum in which periodically we get a good education, perspectives which we may or may not have nor would have if not for the forum. This chat gives the OP a good perspective on the ABA, the people involved and the people not involved....and the MODS will determine when enough is enough as they have done many times in the past and will in the future too.
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  #144  
Old 03-28-2018, 03:27 PM
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I’m looking into the ABA, just curious how many people here are members. What is your reason for joining? I have checked out the website, just hoping to gather a little more info/opinions on it.

Thanks!
OP, hopefully you've got somewhat of an idea as to who here belongs to the ABA.

I just can't believe that your original question derailed into a 5 page argument over crossbows and ABA's support (or no support) of them..... And yes, I did take part of that derail, but only once.

I guess my question is: Z7, did you get any additional information about the ABA that you deem valuable?

J.
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  #145  
Old 03-28-2018, 03:59 PM
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Some of the info from our Brochure:

“In 1956, the Alberta Bowhunters and Archers Association formed and the number one goal of this new association was to legalize bowhunting in the Province of Alberta. This goal was achieved in 1957 and in 1958 a bowhunter named Ray Anderson harvested the first legal animal in the province of Alberta with a bow and arrow – a cow elk with a Howard Hill Longbow. Soon after the first "Bow and Arrow Only" zone was established in WMU 410 (the still famous Canmore Bowzone) and that was followed by two more zones around the cities of Edmonton and Calgary. Over the next few years, other significant changes were made - bowhunters were allowed to wear camo clothing, seasons were lengthened for bowhunters, the use of aluminum arrows was allowed, archery only pre-seasons were established, an archery antelope season. By working with stakeholders and government, additional bowhunting opportunities continued to be added and that holds true to this day.

It is not by accident that Alberta has the most envied archery season of any province in Canada. It has taken years of dedicated work by members of the Alberta Bowhunters Association to accomplish this. The opportunities that exist for bowhunters have in one way or another been touched by the ABA at some point in time.”

- “In 1974, the Government instituted a Bowhunting license (stamp) to better count the number of bowhunters in the province and the first year there were 34 bowhunters licensed in the province. This number doubled the next year and with the phenomenal growth over the years we had almost 23,000 bowhunters in the province of Alberta in 2017.”

- ABA Program Participation, attends government/stakeholder meetings regarding Fish & Wildlife regulation change and policy development.”

ABA Support of 3D Archery. – The ABA recognizes the value of 3D archery and supports, through donations, ABA affiliated clubs and other major 3D archery shoots that have a bowhunting theme in a 3D shoot.

Last edited by Gun; 03-28-2018 at 04:14 PM.
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  #146  
Old 03-28-2018, 04:11 PM
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I was one of those that attending the Parkland meeting. Those numbers may be close if you're guessing.

It is part of the Bowzone and we didn't like to see more shotgun/muzzleloader season.

The local biologist said at the time that there were 1.5 deer per square mile in the area. Those numbers didn't require a increase in harvest.

What I don't understand is all the hostility from people over us having 3 bow only WMU's in the province out of how many? Seriously?! If you want to hunt there learn how to shoot a bow and knock on some doors.

Just be patient tho as you will probably see Crossbows included into the bow season before long. Manufacturers will not quit selling them.

Pope and Young has caved in on more than one technical advancement over the years. Part of the reason I no longer support them after 30+ years as member and measurer. And yes I support other organizations besides ABA.
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  #147  
Old 03-28-2018, 06:25 PM
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OP, hopefully you've got somewhat of an idea as to who here belongs to the ABA.

I just can't believe that your original question derailed into a 5 page argument over crossbows and ABA's support (or no support) of them..... And yes, I did take part of that derail, but only once.

I guess my question is: Z7, did you get any additional information about the ABA that you deem valuable?

J.
I was able to assist with some questions via PM

LC
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  #148  
Old 03-28-2018, 06:32 PM
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I was one of those that attending the Parkland meeting. Those numbers may be close if you're guessing.

It is part of the Bowzone and we didn't like to see more shotgun/muzzleloader season.

The local biologist said at the time that there were 1.5 deer per square mile in the area. Those numbers didn't require a increase in harvest.

What I don't understand is all the hostility from people over us having 3 bow only WMU's in the province out of how many? Seriously?! If you want to hunt there learn how to shoot a bow and knock on some doors.

Just be patient tho as you will probably see Crossbows included into the bow season before long. Manufacturers will not quit selling them.

Pope and Young has caved in on more than one technical advancement over the years. Part of the reason I no longer support them after 30+ years as member and measurer. And yes I support other organizations besides ABA.
My personal concern is that I live in the Bowzone, own property here and have access to a lot more. It is my backyard yet I have some ABA guys suggesting that I travel a bit and take "advantage " of all the opportunities that I have at my disposal to use my X-Bow.
I really care less about P&Y, but I have been an active member of Conservation groups for decades and currently support others.

When a particular Lobby group, namely ABA, in the name of selfishness, takes valued hunting opportunities away from me , I am PO'd... even to the point of appearing hostile, especially since I have hunted this area long before it became a "Bow Zone". So now you confirm that ABA didn't feel they wanted an additional shotgun /ML season as you (ABA) thought the Deer numbers didn't warrant one. I call BS about the Deer numbers. They were becoming a major Road Hazard at that time and that was the gist of the Parkland public meeting. It was all about the protectionist position that ABA has about Parkland Bow zone in particular. As to my estimate of the numbers at that particular Parkland meeting, I'm glad you concur. Thank You. It was stacked by ABA.
I'm not speaking only about myself here. There are quite a few other Parkland residents that feel exactly the same way.
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Last edited by Salavee; 03-28-2018 at 06:44 PM.
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Old 03-28-2018, 06:49 PM
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Lefty-Canuck Lefty-Canuck is offline
 
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So you are upset you can’t use a crossbow in your backyard. I get that as being a reason for your hostile nature. You wanted something and it didn’t go your way. 15 years of hostility...

LC
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Old 03-28-2018, 07:09 PM
Salavee Salavee is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck View Post
So you are upset you can’t use a crossbow in your backyard. I get that as being a reason for your hostile nature. You wanted something and it didn’t go your way. 15 years of hostility...

LC
Yeah, I guess that's it .. and it will remain that way when it comes to the ABA.
They revealed to me what they and they're lobbying tactics are all about , especially when applied to the Parkland Bow zone. What they do, and how they do it elsewhere , is not a direct concern of mine... nor will it ever be.
Otherwise, all is almost Golden.
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