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  #31  
Old 03-27-2018, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Salavee View Post

What a crock of BS .. and the options you present are worse than ridiculous. Why don't you hunt north at 35 lbs and a mouth tab and I'll hunt the Bow zone with my X-Bow at any draw weight I feel is appropriate. I don't need you guys telling me with what, when, where and how I can hunt.
Crossbow hunting just isn’t a passion for you I guess. If you choose not to seize opportunity...don’t blame others.

I don’t tell you what to do...the Government regs do. I did however suggest solutions to your perceived problem.

LC
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  #32  
Old 03-27-2018, 09:24 AM
Salavee Salavee is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck View Post
If Crossbows were allowed during archery only season then that very thing would happen. Who would be to blame then?

The “archery” piece of pie would need to grow at the expense of the “general season” Hunter. Are the general only hunters willing to give over some of their pie?

LC
Now it's a "pie" .. that you guys are unwilling to share. .. and a rather choice pie it is. ! We get the crumbs. If that is anything other than pure, selfish BS I don't know what is.
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  #33  
Old 03-27-2018, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Salavee View Post
Now it's a "pie" .. that you guys are unwilling to share. .. and a rather choice pie it is. ! We get the crumbs. If that is anything other than pure, selfish BS I don't know what is.
I think that is an unfair statement. If I understand your comments thus far correctly, you want the regulations changed so you can use a crossbow in the archery season because you can't shoot a compound/traditional bow at the weight that YOU want to.

I'm sure my 76 year old grandfather would love to still shoot 70 lbs but like you he can not due to age and loss in muscle. So he has accepted that and now shoots 43 lbs and does quite will doing so.

It's all about playing in side the rules and not changing the rules for a few so they can do what they want.

That is how I see it.
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  #34  
Old 03-27-2018, 09:32 AM
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Now it's a "pie" .. that you guys are unwilling to share. .. and a rather choice pie it is. ! We get the crumbs. If that is anything other than pure, selfish BS I don't know what is.
Lol...it’s always been a pie. We have 15% to share...amongst 18% of hungry folks.. Doesn’t it make sense to have the group with 85% share their pie?

See if the 85% are willing to give up some of their pie...Clearly you don’t like pie.

Here is a question, if you could draw 40lbs (or 35lbs) would you? Or is it all or nothing for you?

LC
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  #35  
Old 03-27-2018, 09:35 AM
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I think that is an unfair statement. If I understand your comments thus far correctly, you want the regulations changed so you can use a crossbow in the archery season because you can't shoot a compound/traditional bow at the weight that YOU want to.

I'm sure my 76 year old grandfather would love to still shoot 70 lbs but like you he can not due to age and loss in muscle. So he has accepted that and now shoots 43 lbs and does quite will doing so.

It's all about playing in side the rules and not changing the rules for a few so they can do what they want.

That is how I see it.
Agree, this weekend we watched a grandmother of 71 years old who started bow hunting at 68 get two awards...it was outstanding. Her arrow at 41 pounds draw weight passed through a moose at 32 yards.

LC
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  #36  
Old 03-27-2018, 09:41 AM
dmcbride dmcbride is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck View Post
Lol...it’s always been a pie. We have 15% to share...amongst 18% of hungry folks.. Doesn’t it make sense to have the group with 85% share their pie?

See if the 85% are willing to give up some of their pie...Clearly you don’t like pie.

Here is a question, if you could draw 40lbs (or 35lbs) would you? Or is it all or nothing for you?

LC
So the 18% of archers should only be entitled to 18% of the hunting seasons then, Right?
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  #37  
Old 03-27-2018, 09:41 AM
wildwoods wildwoods is offline
 
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The whole cross bow in bow season arguments are so tired.
The disabled and elderly should get their chance with them in bow season. That's common sense.
I rifle hunt and bow hunt. There's absolutely no way I would want to see xbows in bow season. Last year I had 2 bucks bust me on the draw. My own dumb fault yes. However with a crossbow I would have easily filled my Strathcona tags beyond the shadow of a doubt. Eliminating the noise and motion of the draw and holding (yes with substantial let off) the drawn bow for an extended period is a hefty challenge. The vertical component of a compound bow is an asset. However, a pre-loaded crossbow laying on the hay bale I was behind with perfect rest would have been optimum.
Another aspect is increased harvest in bow season. Now we go to draws for a lot of zones due to higher harvest rates. Pretty simple math. I don't believe thats elitist or entitlement at all. The bow season is magical. Let the folks who physically cannot draw a compound participate with a crossbow and you have perfect balance. For the rifle only guys you can do what I and thousands like me have done- take advantage of an amazing time of year and buy a compound bow. Equal opportunity- everyone wins.
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  #38  
Old 03-27-2018, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck View Post
Do you hunt elk with your crossbow in the NW zones? that season opens up Sept 17 I believe. Do you hunt the bow zone Oct 25-Dec 7 with your crossbow? Right in time for both the white tail and the mule deer rut. Crossbows are valid throughout bear season. If you don’t seize the day...you have no one else to blame.

You may be happy to know there is a proposal to reduce the minimum draw weight to 35lbs. With the advanced technology and efficient designs of modern compounds they carry proper momentum to allow ethical use @ 35lbs.

Have you tried a mouth tab? Saw a guy this weekend use a mouth tab on a compound set at 40lbs with no sight and no peep shooting 3D targets effectively to 27 yards.

Where there is a will there is a way.

LC
Huh.......................35# you say. Can't see that wt of bow being the bow of choice for elk or moose but sure it could be done just like a .223 could do the job. I used to be a man who opposed the xbow with a fervor. Not any more though......like you said in your comment above, advancements in technology and efficient designs of modern compounds allow use of 35# bows. Well isn't that grand. Makes it almost effortless to use a 35# compound bow in the field.

I used to shut down any discourse about using a crossbow in the archery season. Here are the reasons why I stopped doing that disservice to the hunting community.....self pride, selfishness and fear were my motivations.

Self-pride: believing that I was better; more valuable; a more worthy hunter than those wanting to hunt with a crossbow; if I could pick up a bow and hunt then so can everyone else.

Fear: that the inclusion of crossbows would make it too easy for others to harvest big game animals.

Selfishness: in that I was being asked to share the harvest with other hunters.

None of these are valid. They are not worthy considerations at all.

These three motivations are shallow and it has troubled me for some time that I have not paid penance for my thoughts and actions. One still has to become a hunter to enjoy success with a crossbow. Yes, there are differences between a crossbow and a compound bow and a traditional bow. Yet, these differences do not amount to anything substantive, that should exclude a crossbow from being an equal option, in an archery only season.None of these are valid. In fact they are not worthy considerations at all.

I have been a bow hunter for 30 years. I know exactly and precisely what it takes to hunt with a trad bow, compound bow and crossbow. I own and hunt with all three. No one here should think that they can tell me how to use any of these tools........I know them intimately.

I encourage any hunter who wants to hunt with a crossbow in the archery season to lobby the AFGA and/or the govt of AB.
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  #39  
Old 03-27-2018, 09:50 AM
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So the 18% of archers should only be entitled to 18% of the hunting seasons then, Right?
Grab a bow and you too can hunt archery only season with it.

The 15% is a harvest threshold before a draw season comes into play...add more harvest, and then you create more draw seasons...that removes opportunity for archery only.

So with 18% of the hunting population using a bow, shouldn’t the threshold increase?

LC
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  #40  
Old 03-27-2018, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck View Post
Agree, this weekend we watched a grandmother of 71 years old who started bow hunting at 68 get two awards...it was outstanding. Her arrow at 41 pounds draw weight passed through a moose at 32 yards.

LC
Totally awesome, and I commend her for her achievement .. but you miss the point .It's all about choices, not options and restrictions implemented by others .. namely ABA and their selfish ,protective mind set.
Lefty, you have yet to produce a viable, reasonable alternative regarding the inclusion of X-Bows in your coveted early seasons and Bowzone. You keep repeating all of the "wonderful" options available. What are you afraid of?
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  #41  
Old 03-27-2018, 09:57 AM
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I have no dog in this fight but am curious to know how many would bow hunt if only traditional bows were allowed
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  #42  
Old 03-27-2018, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck View Post
Grab a bow and you too can hunt archery only season with it.

The 15% is a harvest threshold before a draw season comes into play...add more harvest, and then you create more draw seasons...that removes opportunity for archery only.

So with 18% of the hunting population using a bow, shouldn’t the threshold increase?

LC
Seems you want the cake and to eat it all too.

I already do hunt with a bow.

Archery seasons are already longer then most general seasons, and archers have more opportunity for animals that are not on draw.
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  #43  
Old 03-27-2018, 09:59 AM
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I have no dog in this fight but am curious to know how many would bow hunt if only traditional bows were allowed
I hunt traditional, A compound bow is closer to a cross bow then it is to a traditional bow.
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  #44  
Old 03-27-2018, 09:59 AM
Z7shooter Z7shooter is offline
 
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Lefty, I agree with you 100% in regards to the crossbow topic. Ill back you any day on that.

As far as the spear conversation, I think its safe to say that the ABA is cleared from the blame. With the research ive done so far, I agree with the ABA not fighting tooth and nail for the use of spears, because its not their fight. The ABA is about bowhunting and I believe we as bowhunters have enough battles.

I personally would like to see more archery only zones opened up. With the increased popularity of the sport and I believe that it would be an effective conservation strategy to allow game populations to grow/stabilize in some areas.


Can someone tell me where the $500 for the ABA lifetime membership goes?
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  #45  
Old 03-27-2018, 10:06 AM
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I have no dog in this fight but am curious to know how many would bow hunt if only traditional bows were allowed
My guess is it would reduce "archery" hunting by at least 80 %.
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  #46  
Old 03-27-2018, 10:09 AM
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Yes I'm a member. Thinking about buying a lifetime membership here soon.

Dropping the weight to #35 is a great idea. Just have to be a little smarter about your arrow and broad head selection is all.
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  #47  
Old 03-27-2018, 10:12 AM
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Lefty, I agree with you 100% in regards to the crossbow topic. Ill back you any day on that.

As far as the spear conversation, I think its safe to say that the ABA is cleared from the blame. With the research ive done so far, I agree with the ABA not fighting tooth and nail for the use of spears, because its not their fight. The ABA is about bowhunting and I believe we as bowhunters have enough battles.

I personally would like to see more archery only zones opened up. With the increased popularity of the sport and I believe that it would be an effective conservation strategy to allow game populations to grow/stabilize in some areas.


Can someone tell me where the $500 for the ABA lifetime membership goes?
The newsletter costs a crazy amount...the game awards also cost a fair bit. Once you get to the buckle $300 and the Grande master portrait $1000, you get a lot of value from your $500 lifetime fee...that also includes a plaque.

LC
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  #48  
Old 03-27-2018, 10:15 AM
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Seems you want the cake and to eat it all too.

I already do hunt with a bow.

Archery seasons are already longer then most general seasons, and archers have more opportunity for animals that are not on draw.
Lol...think about it.

You clearly want the entire province to go on draw? Because that’s what’s going on anyway...look at mule deer and moose in many zones.

Add crossbows to archery and the first 2 years would be great for crossbow hunters...then everything that had archery only would likely become draw. So use your bow and be happy you still can.

The AFGA is largely anti-archery...but I won’t get into that.

LC
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  #49  
Old 03-27-2018, 10:16 AM
Salavee Salavee is offline
 
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Yes I'm a member. Thinking about buying a lifetime membership here soon.

Dropping the weight to #35 is a great idea. Just have to be a little smarter about your arrow and broad head selection is all.

But that would eliminate those 60 -80 yd shots.. more restrictions !
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Old 03-27-2018, 10:17 AM
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After trad hunter and president went after spears I can’t stay far enough away.
I agree as well. Any organization that wants to shut down hunters I am out!
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  #51  
Old 03-27-2018, 10:19 AM
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Totally awesome, and I commend her for her achievement .. but you miss the point .It's all about choices, not options and restrictions implemented by others .. namely ABA and their selfish ,protective mind set.
Lefty, you have yet to produce a viable, reasonable alternative regarding the inclusion of X-Bows in your coveted early seasons and Bowzone. You keep repeating all of the "wonderful" options available. What are you afraid of?
Why don’t you seize the opportunities available to you instead of forcing your agenda on everyone else? You cry about no opportunity...I listed many way to get you in the field. I don’t make the current rules or policy I just follow the current framework.

LC
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  #52  
Old 03-27-2018, 10:26 AM
Z7shooter Z7shooter is offline
 
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Thanks Lefty. Can you explain to me how the buckle and grand master awards work? Not that I am into hunting for the awards, but im curious to how they work.
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  #53  
Old 03-27-2018, 10:28 AM
Salavee Salavee is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck View Post
Why don’t you seize the opportunities available to you instead of forcing your agenda on everyone else? You cry about no opportunity...I listed many way to get you in the field. I don’t make the current rules or policy I just follow the current framework.

LC
The opportunities granted to me by the ABA lobby just aren't satisfactory. Some of us want exactly what you have, using our choice of equipment. Pretty simple.
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  #54  
Old 03-27-2018, 10:29 AM
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Thanks Lefty. Can you explain to me how the buckle and grand master awards work? Not that I am into hunting for the awards, but im curious to how they work.
Check out the website under awards, if you have questions after hit me up.

LC
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  #55  
Old 03-27-2018, 10:37 AM
Z7shooter Z7shooter is offline
 
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I agree as well. Any organization that wants to shut down hunters I am out!
Nube: So how do you support hunters in this province other than being a consumer and purchasing hunting tags? Is there another organization you support? Not every organization is going to jive perfectly with each other. I believe that all hunters should be united, but I also believe there are effective ways to distribute the wealth for the different styles of hunting.

The reason for my inquiry is because I would like to support an organized group which fights for our rights as hunters. Bowhunting has been my style of choice thus far, which is why im inquiring about the ABA first.
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  #56  
Old 03-27-2018, 10:39 AM
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The opportunities granted to me by the ABA lobby just aren't satisfactory. Some of us want exactly what you have, using our choice of equipment. Pretty simple.
Become a member...make a change, it’s what I did. I got involved and have a say in where the organization directs its energy.

Did you know the ABA Excutive and ABA organization was the only provincial organization that sent emails and letters to the minister to back cougar hunting when the issue arose this past season?

Did you send a letter of support? I did.

LC
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  #57  
Old 03-27-2018, 10:43 AM
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But that would eliminate those 60 -80 yd shots.. more restrictions !
You are moving into the relm ethics and personal restrictions.
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  #58  
Old 03-27-2018, 10:55 AM
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Would you guys prefer that it was like sask?
Sept 15- oct 14 archery,
Oct 1- oct 14 crossbow and muzzleloader,
Nov 20- Dec 2 rifle

It all sounds great and everyone is happy, right? Or how many of you would be all upset to lose 2 weeks of your rifle season?

Like Lefty said are the 85 percent that rifle hunt willing to give up some of their pie?
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  #59  
Old 03-27-2018, 11:12 AM
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Would you guys prefer that it was like sask?
Sept 15- oct 14 archery,
Oct 1- oct 14 crossbow and muzzleloader,
Nov 20- Dec 2 rifle

It all sounds great and everyone is happy, right? Or how many of you would be all upset to lose 2 weeks of your rifle season?

Like Lefty said are the 85 percent that rifle hunt willing to give up some of their pie?
Why would the 85% have to give up a piece of the pie when as it is right now most archery seasons are 2 months and general is 1 month? Maybe the archery season should be only 18% of the 3 months to make it fair?????
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Old 03-27-2018, 11:26 AM
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Why would the 85% have to give up a piece of the pie when as it is right now most archery seasons are 2 months and general is 1 month? Maybe the archery season should be only 18% of the 3 months to make it fair?????
I wish everyone would stop talking about percentages. It all boils down to harvest success rate. Right now bow hunters have longer season because the harvest rate is way lower.
Mcbride I am not directing this 100% at you but you everyone who is talking about pieces of the pie and percentages. I would be very curious to hear how many animals are knocked down across Alberta on average during rifle season versus bow season. I'm willing to bet it's a night and day difference. 5-1? 10-1?
More?
I conclude: the more efficient the killing device, the shorter the seasons will get. I do have sympathy for the older folks and the disabled. They 100% should be included in this season. But why an able-bodied person that only rifle hunts would complain about the bow season is beyond me. The simple solution is to go buy a bow and experience it for yourself. I did and I will never look back. It's amazing

Able-bodied people using cross bows in bow season will limit opportunity. Harvest will increase and so will wait times
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